Ep. 34 - Savannah Jacob - Bates-Hendricks Neighbors Gallery
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Savannah Jacob
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Episode Summary
In this episode of Third Space Indy, host Michael Zarick interviews Savannah Jacob, a local ceramicist and community builder. Savannah discusses her efforts in Indianapolis, particularly through the Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery, to foster local art and community engagement. The conversation covers Savannah's experiences in art shows, the process of creating ceramics, and the unique charm of the Bates Hendricks neighborhood. They also delve into the broader theme of community improvement and the balance between neighborhood development and maintaining its intrinsic character.
00:00 Introduction to The Third Place
00:51 Meet Savannah Jacob: Local Ceramicist and Community Builder
01:16 Savannah's Journey to the Podcast
02:05 The Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery
03:49 Creating and Managing Art Installations
10:28 Savannah's Ceramic Art and Craft Shows
22:42 Life in Bates Hendricks
31:57 Balancing Home and Business Space
32:19 Community Connections and Studio Setup
32:39 Considering a Bigger Space
33:07 Navigating Business Growth
34:23 Political Engagement and Art
34:44 Personal Reflections and Online Persona
35:24 Exploring Third Spaces
35:31 Sponsorship and Community Impact
40:34 Memories of Childhood and Art
52:56 Chemistry and Ceramics
58:50 Concluding Thoughts and Farewells
Episode Transcript
Savannah Jacob
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[00:00:00]
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick and in 1989, a man named Ray Oldenberg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he outlines a place that is outside of your home and outside of your work that he coined The third place. In this place, you can, it's a place that you can go exist, be with others, and build community.
So I've made it my job, role, goal,
Savannah Jacob: mission,
Michael Zarick: mission, whatever word you want to use to find people all over Indianapolis who are doing their very best to make, and create community all over this town. Uh, and so today I'm super excited to share with you that today's guest is Savannah Jacob local ceramicist local community builder, [00:01:00] and local Mars owner.
Savannah Jacob: That's true. Yeah. My most important job.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. If you're not, uh, watching you, we have a dog.
Savannah Jacob: The dogs. We have a long dog. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Look at Mars Wiener. Is that her name?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Mars. No, Wiener.
Michael Zarick: Um,
Savannah Jacob: she's a girl.
Michael Zarick: So a little background. Savannah reached out to me
Savannah Jacob: like a decade ago.
Michael Zarick: It was almost, it was, it was like nine months ago.
Literally. It
Savannah Jacob: was a while ago.
Michael Zarick: And you were like, Hey, I think I'd be good to come on the podcast. You were one of the very first people actually to reach out to me and be like, Hey, I think I would be good on the podcast.
Savannah Jacob: Which I wanna say I've never done that before. I was just like, I do think I, I was like, I have some relevance to the Third Space, so.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And I, I want to also, give a shout out to you because like you, it was very unassuming and we're
Savannah Jacob: having balls. We just,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Shout out to having balls. Um, but it was, it didn't, it didn't feel like, um,
Savannah Jacob: aggressive,
Michael Zarick: aggressive or anything [00:02:00] like that where it was just like, oh, this person, like, I think you said a few key words where I was like, they get it.
And so we met up and I want you to talk about it, but you have an art installation, is that what you'd call it? Yeah. Art display.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, down here in Bates Hendricks. Which is your neighborhood, your hood.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. This is my neighborhood. Love
Michael Zarick: here. And we'll also
Savannah Jacob: in
Michael Zarick: Lincoln. Lincoln. Lincoln Lane, Lincoln
Savannah Jacob: Coffee House.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Coffee and Community Center.
Savannah Jacob: It's easy to get that confused with Lincoln Square Pancake Place. Yeah. 'cause when you type it into Google, that comes up. But yeah, I initially reached out because I founded Manage, curate social media. I do all the things for the Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery. Um, and I really want that to be, if not a Third Space, a connection to third spaces.
So we're at Lincoln Lane and one street over is the Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery. And then another street over is the Bates Hendricks Community Garden. So it kind of like connects all of those. It's in the middle of those two. Um, and I was like, [00:03:00] I'd love to talk about that. 'cause that was kind of my goal with the Neighbors Gallery is having a place that people can come to see art in a very, like, low key, nonchalant way.
Um, but then you can also just pop over here or pop over to the community garden. But then when we met up and we were talking, I was like, well, now that I'm thinking about it, my whole job is like about third spaces that are just kind of pop up, third spaces. Mm-hmm. Because I'm a ceramicist and the way that I make that work full time financially is I travel to go to like, art shows and art fairs, and they're literally just pop up third spaces.
So then I was like, shit, my whole thing is like about third spaces. I was like, actually, I have more to talk about.
Michael Zarick: That's funny.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Can you tell me, I mean, I kind of loosely know, but like, why did you make the, oh my God, what's the, what's it called? The box? The,
Savannah Jacob: the Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery.
Michael Zarick: The Bates Hendricks Neighbors Gallery.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So this is something that like, do you know Anderson York? The Indy Bench Mench?
Savannah Jacob: Yes. I mean the type, I don't know him, but I know like his mission,
Michael Zarick: this is like the type of thing that he would be really interested in. Yeah. It's just
Savannah Jacob: like [00:04:00]
Michael Zarick: you like just made a giant metal box.
You told me you forced your, uh, husband and someone else to like carry it for you.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: At like, you were like a queen pointing
Savannah Jacob: insane to go there because it's insanely heavy. I don't know how much it weighs, but Yeah. And so I personally didn't make it. I helped design it, but the actual, um, designer fabricator of it is my really good friend from college, Paul Williams, who actually lives right down the street.
Mm-hmm. Which was a bonus. 'cause I'm like, oh, you're in the neighborhood even better. Um, and so he designed, fabricated, and made it, but he made it at, um, Machine Maker Space attached to the amp. So we had to transport it, which was fun. Um, yeah. So that was crazy.
Michael Zarick: And then like, how do you, so this is a, it's a box.
Yeah. Literally it is a box. It's. What's the glass? It's like
Savannah Jacob: plexiglass some. Yeah. 'cause it's some sort You don't
Michael Zarick: want people to steal.
Savannah Jacob: It's, yeah. It's shatterproof. It's very well, um, protected and the material is really high quality. And shout out to the Indy [00:05:00] Arts Council because we got a grant to make it.
Without that grant, one, I don't think it would even have happened, but also without it, the materials would not have been so like high quality and protected from the elements and potential people that might want the art for themselves. Mm-hmm. Which, and that is a common, uh, misconception I should probably like address right off the bat, is that the art is not free to take, it is free to view and if the artist chooses, it can be for sale, but it's not the same as a little free library, which I often compare it to that just for people to get the idea.
But it isn't like that in the sense that you can come and take, come and take or drop off art. It's not like that. I would say think of it as like an outdoor art museum. More than a,
Michael Zarick: yeah. How are you like picking
Savannah Jacob: exchange?
Michael Zarick: How are you picking the people for art to go in?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, so at first we had open applications, um, and again, shout out to the Indy Arts Council because with the grant we got from them, [00:06:00] we were able to give the first seven artists a hundred dollars for displaying work.
So I think that really encouraged people to apply. So we got quite a few applications initially, and then we prioritize people in the neighborhood, um, for that at first. But you know, as it goes on, we're getting close to the one year mark and it's like, okay, well not everybody in the neighborhood is gonna have like something to contribute.
So now we're kind of sourcing like surrounding areas. Um, but yeah, up until this most recent exhibit, it was all just from applications that we got, but the most recent one I kind of sourced, um, because I just really liked these artists and I wanted to see their art up close and to work with them. Mm-hmm.
So that was, um. My idea for the two we have right now, which is Abby and Amanda Bell. Um, Amanda is an illustrator and Abby is a ceramicist. So since it's a box there, on the inside is the 3D display. And then on all the outside there are the 2D displays. Mm-hmm. So
Michael Zarick: what's the, do you have the address of the box in case someone wants to go see it?[00:07:00]
Savannah Jacob: Yes. So that's
Michael Zarick: a harder question.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, it is actually a harder question. And we don't have it on Google Maps yet, which is on my to-do list. Um, but it is on the New Jersey Street, Esplanade, which is, I didn't know that it was called the Esplanade until like we literally put it there and somebody, it's a tiny park.
Yeah. Basically. But it's like a median. Very similar to like Woodruff Place, how they have those median, um, that scared her. It's okay. Um, so it's on the north end of the New Jersey Street, esplanade.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. And it's a beautiful bright blue box.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: It's
very hard to mix.
Because like when we, when I first came down,
Savannah Jacob: that was intentional.
Michael Zarick: You were like
Savannah Jacob: cleaning it. Probably.
Michael Zarick: You were cleaning and you were like doing mile landscaping basically. Yeah. You have like a shovel or something. Probably like a little spade or whatever. Yeah. Uh, and I was like, oh, there it is. There it is. It's very, uh, big and bright and again, like heavy and like it's very clearly, uh, really well made.
Um, and I think it's like [00:08:00] a cool like representation of the, it's a cool like distillation of what I like about Indianapolis is one that you can like just do things. Yeah. Like you can literally just do things, but also like. There's again, like so much I've said this a hundred billion times on this podcast, but like there's so much, uh, individual identity in every neighborhood.
Yes. And like, it's a great way to like highlight that.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Especially since like where we are now, the Lincoln, uh, like you said, the three different streets. Uh, the Lincoln Community Center, uh, the Esplanade
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And then the community garden. Yeah. Just like all on a line is like a great, uh, example of just like how different pieces of this neighborhood sort of come together to do.
Yeah. A variety of things.
Savannah Jacob: And that's what, whenever we applied for the Indy Arts Council grant, um, part of what I really wanted to make a case for is like, oh, fountain Square is this like Art Mecca of the city, if you will, but we're so close by and we have a lot of talented [00:09:00] people in this neighborhood, but we don't necessarily have like, representation of that in the art sense.
So I really hope that the neighbors gallery is just like a little piece of what's to come, hopefully. Um, and I think. Definitely could be. Can be is maybe.
Michael Zarick: Did you write the grant?
Savannah Jacob: I did.
Michael Zarick: How'd that go?
Savannah Jacob: Well, it went good 'cause we got it.
Michael Zarick: I've never written, I don't think I've ever written a grant.
Savannah Jacob: Oh man. I've written so many grants.
Uh,
Michael Zarick: my mother-in-law is like a grant writer.
Savannah Jacob: Really? It's like her show. It can be a whole job. I mean, I mean, that was her job. Can be. It definitely is. Yeah. And if you write one, you'll understand why, because it can be exhausting. And with this grant specifically, we also had to have, you know, approval and communication with the Bates Hendricks Neighborhood Association, um, with Paul Williams, the fabricator and designer, and.
Than with other neighbors too, to make sure, like, even though I live in this neighborhood and I want it, do other people want this to happen? You know, like, I gotta double check on that. So it's
Michael Zarick: just, aren't you on the neighborhood council or neighborhood? [00:10:00]
Savannah Jacob: No, I'm not. No. Really, I, I worked heavily with the association, though, association for the, um, Bates, Hendrick Street Fest last year.
So I nearly felt like I was, was on that, but, but no, so I had to coordinate with them, um, and just so many people to like, make sure that this was something we could do, wanted to do, should do all of that.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: So that made that grant specifically a little more complex. Usually the grants I'm writing are like purely for myself.
So,
Michael Zarick: um, can you hold up your corn mug?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So Savannah, just for the loose room, Savannah is holding a, a mug that she created. I did. Uh, and it looks like a corn cob with,
Savannah Jacob: it does
Michael Zarick: with a small husk over it. And it's wonderful.
Savannah Jacob: Thank you.
Michael Zarick: Savannah makes some of the most beautiful ceramics that I've seen. Aw, no, seriously.
Um, but you also are like a, a freak.
Savannah Jacob: I do. So I like, I like fond ceramics, you know,
uh,
Savannah Jacob: keep in
Michael Zarick: light and that I, what I mean [00:11:00] by freak is like you go to like between the months of February and the months
Savannah Jacob: of Oh yeah. In that way. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: November, maybe like the early December you go to every single art show known to man under the sun that is within a hundred mile radius.
Savannah Jacob: Damn near, damn near. Yeah. Especially less so now, but especially my first two years. 'cause I was really trying to figure out like what works for me, where is like my audience. Um, and that was some crazy, crazy, uh, volume of events that I did then.
Michael Zarick: And you like recently published. Do you remember any numbers of like your last year?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, so I really cut down on the shows. I only did 22 last year,
Michael Zarick: only like
Savannah Jacob: half the
Michael Zarick: year.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, 22 shows, uh, 1500 pots.
Michael Zarick: 1500,
Savannah Jacob: yeah. Yeah. And I've already, is
Michael Zarick: there 1500 sold or is that just made?
Savannah Jacob: Uh, just made. Okay. Yeah. And just thrown on the wheel. So, and then there is, you know, um, a failure rate too that I'm not [00:12:00] like calculating into that.
Like, not all 1500 of those even got to like the final stage. Mm-hmm. Um, those are just what I threw. I see. So I'd take out at least like a hundred from that probably. So,
Michael Zarick: um, and you're also, I just, again, to pay you compliment. You're doing this in like, what is effectively a broom closet? Yeah. I have been to your house.
Savannah Jacob: It's a spare bedroom. Yeah,
Michael Zarick: you're so, it's, it's very impressive.
Savannah Jacob: You can do a lot with a small space and I've seen people do more with less. So I feel really grateful to have that space. Um, we can talk about this separately later, but I'm hoping to have a bigger space soon, yo. Yeah. Hoping. Fingers crossed.
We'll see.
Michael Zarick: Wait, uh, what happens? That's not the place down on Shelby. No,
Savannah Jacob: maybe.
Michael Zarick: Okay. Um, dang, I'm, I'm good.
Savannah Jacob: I don't wanna say anything just in case it doesn't happen, you know, I'm really hopeful, but No
Michael Zarick: jinxing.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. I don't wanna jinx myself and it's okay if it doesn't. 'cause like I said, I am comfy in my space now, but I would love a greater connection to community 'cause I am like totally alone other than my husband and my dogs.
And I'm like, sometimes I wanna talk to somebody during the day.
Michael Zarick: That's one [00:13:00] of the reasons I really enjoy ceramics personally. And I've said that before. It's like just. Because you are so stuck with your dirty hands, except you're not, 'cause you answer the phone. Yeah. Even when your hands are dirty.
Savannah Jacob: Me and Alexa both were, we're psychos like that.
I just don't care.
Michael Zarick: But like sitting down and being forced to like interface with somebody else, even though you probably need to get your work done, it's good to like lock in a little bit.
Savannah Jacob: But
Michael Zarick: yeah, like sometimes it's good to like have
Savannah Jacob: a chit
Michael Zarick: ChatGPT
Savannah Jacob: and that's why I listen to so many podcasts. 'cause
Michael Zarick: because usually like you're in the conversation.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, pretty much.
Michael Zarick: I forgot to mention that you're a regular podcast listener, although
Savannah Jacob: avid part, you've fallen off. I've been slacking because, um, I have a, a goal for like how many books I wanna listen to and read. So I've been really into audio books more than podcast lately. But you reading um, it's embarrassing.
Michael Zarick: Is it Heated Rivalry? It's not that embarrassing.
Savannah Jacob: Uh, yeah, that's, that's what I'm
Michael Zarick: reading. I have a story. [00:14:00] So my sister-in-law. Love her to death. She is like the kindest, most wonderful human on earth. Every time we get together, I'm like, Lily, what hockey smut are you reading now? I was like, have you read Heated Rivalry?
She goes, no, I haven't read that one yet.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, wow.
Michael Zarick: So she has read,
Savannah Jacob: she has some exciting big
Michael Zarick: stuff. She has stuff she has read to
Savannah Jacob: experience soon. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Lots of h hockey smut, but not, uh,
Savannah Jacob: specifically. I didn't know there was like that whole genre I knew about the series. I didn't know there was a whole genre of that.
Specifically.
Michael Zarick: There is a, uh, a giant sub genre of, um, wild hockey smut, which, you know, I, you know, to each their own.
Savannah Jacob: You know what? It makes sense. It makes sense. Why?
Michael Zarick: I mean, there's like big, big burly dudes and Oh, yeah. Heat. They're in a heat of rivalry, I'm saying. Um, uh, oh, I got off track. Oh. Nope, I've lost it.[00:15:00]
Well, I wanted talk. Sorry. Totally derailed. No, I wanted to talk about, um, like art shows. Yeah. Because like you, I have gone to a couple just as a result of existing, based of Indianapolis.
Savannah Jacob: Got to see you there. Do
Michael Zarick: you think a fe of land as an art festival,
Savannah Jacob: um,
Michael Zarick: for you it is. 'cause you were like selling
Savannah Jacob: there.
Michael Zarick: But
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. In a way I think of it as a neighborhood art festival. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: To me, a fiso lanterns is like the most, um, beautiful example of like community, a neighborhood community of it.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm. It's amazing.
Michael Zarick: But, uh, when you talk about art shows
Savannah Jacob: mm-hmm. There's art and craft shows and then there's neighborhood shows.
There's all different, do you just make you, there's all different ways, different
Michael Zarick: differentiations between these?
Savannah Jacob: A little bit Yeah. Because share, um, yeah, so art shows are. Much more strict and particular. And you're definitely gonna get an audience of like collectors more [00:16:00] than, more than not. Mm-hmm. And then craft shows are less fine, art heavy.
Um, the applications are often very different depending on the show. Um, and yeah, it's just a whole different vibe, a whole different, um, audience. And then neighborhood, neighborhood shows and craft shows kind of overlap I would say. 'cause neighborhood shows are never like fine art shows. But they just bring in different audience 'cause they're obviously bringing in neighbors, and surround and not always just neighbors, but it is more of that like honed in vibe.
Like when I do the Bates Synder Street Fest, like that's a lot of neighbors. It's more of a local laid back feel. Much less pressure too. 'cause it's not typically not as expensive to do. Um. Like the Bates Hendrick Street Fest, it costs less than a hundred dollars to do. But then I'll do some fine art shows that are over $400 to do.
And it's like, there's a, there's a differentiation there. You know, like you're kind of paying for something. Totally diff a different experience in that way. Mm-hmm. Um, but it [00:17:00] does get really tricky, especially when I'm trying to like, sum up, like, I just say shows like, I'm like, I did 22 shows 'cause I did art shows, craft shows, neighborhood, like all popups, like all these things.
Yeah. So I just define it as shows.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: But yeah, there's, you can get real specific if you want to.
Michael Zarick: And when you look at those, like, what do you, 'cause you brought those up as like
microcosms of community for yourself.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: What about them is so, um, so that for you,
Savannah Jacob: so community.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Savannah Jacob: Um, well the vendors, I, we have our own little vendor community.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. How much overlap is there between, like, are you, like always, I obviously you see Alexa every single one of these.
Savannah Jacob: Not every time, but yeah.
There, there is overlap where you see the same people pretty frequently. Um, but at this point I'm kind of leaning more into like fine art shows and sometimes that requires travel where I'll see like almost no one I know, or at least like the people like right next to [00:18:00] me, I don't know, which is always kind of cool.
'cause typically people in the arts and crafts community are very, ours, is excited, are very, um, welcoming and they wanna be friends. Like you have this commonality. So they're immediately like, oh, we're a part of the same community. Cool. Let's, let's be friends right away. Mm-hmm. Which is awesome. So you have that community off the bat.
And then you have the community that comes to you that like the attendees, um, which is really cool. And then you have the community of your own specific craft. So like, ceramics community is a whole thing in itself. And people all go to art shows and we'll specifically like seek out the other ceramics vendors to be like, Hey, what's up?
Like,
Michael Zarick: yeah.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Do you like go, oh my God, like look at that.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, pretty
Michael Zarick: usually I've done that. I've done that. Um, when I was
Savannah Jacob: for sure
Michael Zarick: more regularly creating ceramics, like I would go to like small, like I recall the most recent one was like 2023 or early 2024, like a winter art show.
Savannah Jacob: Okay.
Michael Zarick: And like walking up to some random ceramics person being like, holy shit.
Like your stuff is so cool.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Like, and I was like, and also being [00:19:00] like, I have no idea how you did this because I am bad.
Savannah Jacob: That's the best, that's the best part of like, the ceramic community is really typically I, most people, I haven't really encountered anybody that like, isn't like this, but most ceramicist are like, yeah, let me tell you everything about it, how I did it.
Like, let's, let's chat about this. They're not very gatekeeper in my experience. I certainly am not like, you wanna know how I made this corn mug? I will tell you in detail, but like, good luck replicating it. You know, it's kind of with that, are
Michael Zarick: you just, are you, um, you're hand carving that, right? You're just like,
Savannah Jacob: yeah.
So I throw it on the wheel, but yeah. Everything I do is wheel thrown and then hand carve, hand painted and hand carved, which is time consuming.
Michael Zarick: Which, yeah, I just like, your output is crazy for how much
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. But like, I really love it and if I ever don't love it, I'll do less. But until I, I get there, I'm probably just gonna do more.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: It's like insane as that sounds.
Michael Zarick: Can you, uh, [00:20:00] speak to the haters for me on behalf of all artists,
Savannah Jacob: the haters?
Michael Zarick: Can you tell the people why that mug costs what it costs?
Savannah Jacob: Oh, oh yes. Yeah. So, '
Michael Zarick: cause I know that, okay.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: It's a very common thing that happens as you walk up to a, a table and you go, oh my God, this costs so much.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. And I will say. That is also a differentiation of craft art, neighborhood shows. Mm-hmm. Depending on where you are, you know, like at a fine art show, most people won't really blink an eye at a $60 mug and that's how much this mug would cost. Um, but at a neighborhood show, people might be like, what the hell?
Why is that $60? And, um, it's $60 because it's taken me like almost seven years to be able to do this, like as efficiently as I can. Mm-hmm. And yeah. And then cost of materials, cost of time, uh, so many factors mm-hmm. To make it $60
Michael Zarick: one. One thing that came up very early in my ceramics learning was the cost of running the kiln.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Because,
Savannah Jacob: yeah,
Michael Zarick: most people run, even if you don't run an electric kiln, but if you [00:21:00] do run an electric kiln mm-hmm. There is a cost to electricity. Yeah. And to heat up a, a small space like that
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: To the heat that it needs to reach is very expensive.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um. And do, do you have an electric kiln?
Savannah Jacob: I do have an electric kiln, yeah.
Michael Zarick: Do you have an estimate for how much it costs you to run?
Savannah Jacob: I do each time and maybe not as much as you think. I think last time I checked, um, which was early last year, it cost me about $20 per firing. Oh, that's not a bad. No, it's not, it's not terrible. It does add up. Um, it then kiln maintenance and the kiln itself is very, the kiln itself is thousands of dollars.
Mm-hmm. Kiln maintenance can be hundreds depending on what you have to fix. And then if you have to hire somebody to do it, I try to do it myself as much as I can, but it can get really pricey. Yeah. Um, definitely the most expensive thing about this is my time for sure. Um, but yeah, I think it's about $20 and this takes two firings, so $40 and obviously it can fit like quite a few pieces into that, but yeah.
It's maybe not as much as you thought, but still a decent amount. And we have solar, so that helps too. I try to [00:22:00] like fire it if I can when our solar is like at its peak. Oh, that's cool. But that doesn't always happen, but try to time it right. Um. Yeah. Yeah. I, for the first year that I had my kiln, I would wake up in the middle of the night just like terrified that our garage was on fire.
So I'm like, oh my God, I'm so scared.
Michael Zarick: I used to run, I definitely, so I used to run the ceramics at my summer camp.
Savannah Jacob: Oh. I worked at a summer camp as a ceramics teacher. I was also terrified of that burning down.
Michael Zarick: I definitely did stuff that was not safe just very regularly, which is true of my entire summer camp experience.
But you know what,
Savannah Jacob: that's what summer camp's for. You're just, I'm
Michael Zarick: still here.
Savannah Jacob: Wild and out. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, can you, another reason you reached out to me, uh, originally, if I recall correctly, is 'cause you live in Bates Hendricks.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And this is not like. A popular neighborhood. Not necessarily. At least in the wider sense.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Uh, can you tell me a little bit [00:23:00] about why you connect so deeply with Bates Hendricks? And for those who don't know specifically? My mother. 'cause every time we bring up a neighborhood, every time I bring up a neighborhood, she's like, where is that?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um,
Savannah Jacob: I know.
Michael Zarick: So it's sort of like Bates Hendricks is, if you think of the Indianapolis as a circle, uh, of, I think of Indianapolis, like a, a steering wheel.
Okay. There's a, this, whereas the circle of the steering wheel is the 4 65 loop basically going around it. Okay. And then, uh, the,
it's just so hard to explain, uh, without like a map, but we are on just under the, uh. Cross shaft of the, the, the steering wheel. I don't know how to say this in an effective way. Is that true? Am I making that up?
Savannah Jacob: Um, I'm really, no, we're south. Really. I'm really bad with directions, but a very easier way to say it is we're right [00:24:00] next to Fountain Square and Garfield Park is also adjacent to us.
Michael Zarick: Is it? That's kind of south ish.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So like Garfield Park is southeast and Fountain Square is directly east.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm. So I always tell people that like, by living in Bates Hendricks, you get it all. You get Fountain Square, Bates Hendricks, and Garfield Park all at your disposal.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: Um, but I think Bates Hendricks, um, isn't as well known just because we're not Fountain Square and we're not Garfield Park and we don't have like all these cool stores and shops and art things.
Um, and I don't know if that's like good or bad necessarily. I love it for other reasons, for the community and neighbors that are here. Um, and we do have cool stuff like this coffee shop and things, but I don't know if we need to be like either of them to get that notoriety or record. Recognized in that way, just because we help them thrive by being adjacent.
We support those communities as well. Um, but I love Bates Hendrix because I, so I moved to Indy in 2017 to go to Heron School of Art, and every single [00:25:00] year I was in school, I moved, I moved to a different apartment, a different house. I never like settled. There was never like Mars, there was never like anywhere that I really felt truly like, this is like home.
But then when I met my partner, he already lived in Bates Hendricks, and I moved in with him and I was like, wow, I actually feel like I could stay here. It was the first time I was like, this is a true, like, community that I feel like I could be a part of in an impactful way. Um, and that was almost five years ago now.
And yeah, still feel that way. Still feel, I feel more that way now. Like every year that goes by I'm like, I love this community, like so much.
Michael Zarick: Wouldn't you say you could be here in an impactful way? Like what, can you explain what you mean by that at all?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, like. The neighbors gallery. Like I just felt like there's so much opportunity to do things here that aren't already being done.
You know, like in Fountain Square. And I feel that way about Indy as a whole, honestly, when people are like, oh well why do you like Indy? And I'm like, 'cause it's growing. And you can be a part of that growth in [00:26:00] like a way that you couldn't be a part of in like Chicago or somewhere. Like that's already so established.
But like our art scene is just getting started. And as an artist myself, I'm like wow, I can actually like help shape that. 'cause it is like at the infant stage in a lot of ways. And I feel that way about Bates Hendricks too. Like this could be a really awesome neighborhood and it already is in so many ways, but we can put our own like impact on it in a really direct way because it is so.
Fresh and like new still.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Do you think about what, um, improvements could come to this part of town?
Savannah Jacob: Yes, of course.
Michael Zarick: What are you looking for?
Savannah Jacob: Um, on a really like basic level. Yeah. We need better storm drains. We need a better bike lane. Um, there's just stuff like that. We have a really cool park though, on my street on Ringold Street.
That's awesome. And that's great. And I've been, um, kind of collaborating with, um, people in the neighborhood with like planting more natives there and stuff. I would love to see more natives in our neighborhood. That could definitely be better. We [00:27:00] have some invasive species that could definitely go. Um, but that's just on like my personal level.
Definitely the storm drains would be right off the alleyways. We're getting into infrastructure now, I think, but like, oh, I think everybody,
Michael Zarick: everybody has issues with their alleyways.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, alleyways need some fixing, but,
Michael Zarick: um,
Savannah Jacob: that's not so easy to do.
Michael Zarick: I live, uh, in Broad Ripple.
Savannah Jacob: Yes.
Michael Zarick: And. Fortunately, Broad Ripple is adjacent to Meridian Kessler.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And the, uh, and I say fortunately, primarily because of like the, uh, quality of the infrastructure while still bad. It is, no, not nearly as bad as some other places in the city.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, and it's funny to like see people in Meridian-Kessler like, complain, like, I see that pretty regularly.
Savannah Jacob: You're like, please.
Michael Zarick: And I'm just like, have you, do you like leave your neighborhood?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Just like looked around,
Savannah Jacob: like, come on over here. You check this out and you'll feel a lot better about yourself. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And so like on the topic of like [00:28:00] alleyways and things like that, it's like some of these. Especially like if you go to Haughville, um, like some of those alleyways look like there was a, a bomb set off.
Yeah. Under, under the
Savannah Jacob: concrete. Yeah. And I mean here we have like neighbors themselves buying gravel and stuff and doing it themselves. 'cause it's like literally that bad where they're like, my car is getting destroyed if I don't like buy a load of gravel right now. Mm-hmm. So that's pretty, that's not great, but
Michael Zarick: Mars, you want like a smooth ride.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Right. Mars, you don't say anything.
Savannah Jacob: She is like, I agree.
Michael Zarick: The only person you barked at was a child.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Because you're a bully.
Savannah Jacob: They're her own size. She's like, I gotta stand my ground. Let them know I am the only small thing here. Um, but yeah, there's always improvements to be made and like all those things I listed, I'm sure those could also be applied to like the city as a whole and that would be amazing.
But I know we have monthly neighborhood association meetings here that like any neighbors can come to and. People complain about these things and they're like, yeah, how can we change [00:29:00] it? And sometimes we have like, um, council members come and they kind of explain why it's almost impossible to change it just because of like how things are set up.
And that's really frustrating. Yeah. And discouraging.
Michael Zarick: Do you, do you know who your council member is?
Savannah Jacob: Um, ours is Kristen Jones.
Michael Zarick: I think
Savannah Jacob: I know that name. And I know that because my partner worked really hard for about a year to get our street parking to be on one side because it's on like both sides right now.
And our street's really narrow. Oh. And mirrors get knocked off all the time. And, um, so we tried to work with her to get that done, but it didn't happen. So
Michael Zarick: That's funny. On 16th Street. Um, so 16th Street is in most cases, a four lane street. I think That's true. Um, and at the Monon crosses 16th Street. And so they, um, Jesse Brown and VOP both, uh, worked at their neighborhoods to get.
Uh, to allow people to park on the outer lanes Mm. Yeah. To make cars like Yeah. Oh. [00:30:00] Go into the two middle lanes. So that where it crosses the Monon Oh,
Savannah Jacob: it
Michael Zarick: makes the crossing thinner?
Savannah Jacob: Yes. Okay. Nice.
Michael Zarick: Um, because that Monon crossing is super sketchy.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Um, yeah. A lot of biking in Indy and, I mean, you know this of course, but a lot of biking can be really scary and I like ride my bikes, so that's great that they could do that.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Where do you ride?
Savannah Jacob: Uh, a lot on the cultural trail because right behind our house we live on, like we live right. Kind of in like, we're in Bates Hendricks, but we are on the border of Fountain Square, so we can get on the cultural trail super easy. Mm-hmm. Or we could, they're doing a lot of construction right now.
Michael Zarick: They sure
Savannah Jacob: are. Which is not gonna be so easy come
Michael Zarick: summer. Yeah. I went to Ultimate Moon for the first time the other day.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Good luck getting there.
Michael Zarick: I wa yeah. I walked through like a
Savannah Jacob: giant construction really bad. Those businesses. Please, if you're listening, go support those businesses on Shelby and that because I know they're suffering.
Michael Zarick: There was a lot of people playing magic in Alpha Moon.
Savannah Jacob: Okay. Good. Glad to hear that. Yeah. But yeah, so I bike the cultural trail a lot and then that obviously connects to the Monon. Um, pleasant run is also behind my house, which [00:31:00] I get this cool studio space I really want. I'll be able to bike there so easily, which I'm really excited about.
'cause then I'm like, a big perk of working at home is I don't spend any money on commuting or time on commuting and the,
Michael Zarick: or at a, an art space.
Savannah Jacob: Right. I don't spend money on either of those things. So, you know.
Michael Zarick: Do you, um, are you looking for an art space? Sorry to pivot back, but are you looking for an art space just because you feel cramped or are you like wanting to get It's almost like I've worked remote basically my entire adult life.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And I now see the value of having office. Yeah. You mentioned having social stuff, but like, I think also like the value of having an office is separating, having a, a distinct physical separation Yes. Between work and home.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Of course you'd feel that way, but
Michael Zarick: what do you mean?
Savannah Jacob: I mean, well, with the Third Space and like the definition of it is like, oh, work and home,
Michael Zarick: you're,
Savannah Jacob: but you already have like, work and home here in one space, so it's almost like even worse.
Like you're almost only getting a second space.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: You know? [00:32:00] Yeah. Because you already have that combination. But yeah, I, I think I'll be comfortable in my like, home space for at least another year. But if I ever wanna hire an assistant, which I do at some point, um, I really need that to be outside of my home just because logistical reasons, space reasons.
Um, so that's a factor. And then just, yeah, the connection to community, being able to invite people into my space too. Like obviously you came over and checked out my studio, but like. It's not where I can have people like, oh, you wanna come and buy something, just pop over to my studio and check it out.
'cause then you have to come through my whole house. It's just not like, set up like that. And it's not set up like a store because there isn't any space for that. It's all just like workspace.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Savannah Jacob: So I'm interested in like what opportunities a bigger space could get me that way. Um, and then it'd be really cool to have my kiln with me.
Like right now I have that spare bedroom That's right. Like a shack. And my kiln is in the garage, so I have to like carry all my pots in and outta there every single time, which sometimes can be like three to four trips because
Michael Zarick: you have to fight through Mars.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. And she [00:33:00] wants to go in and out every Yeah.
Um, so there's a lot of reasons that it would be nice. But yeah, I'm not necessarily like, I don't have to do that yet. I just want to, but there will come a time when it's like, okay, you, you kind of have to do this if you want your business to grow, so. Mm-hmm. That's where we're at right now.
Michael Zarick: That's cool.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. I saw somebody say like, you should wait until you absolutely have to. Like until you fully outgrow your space to like move, like don't move prematurely. Um, and I don't feel like it's premature, but I think it would be like right on time right now, so.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. How long have you been thinking about that?
Savannah Jacob: Um, since this time last year. So, and just started talking about it. I was like, okay, like I am waiting for like, just the right space and honestly I was waiting for this space I'm interested in now to become available since last year. So Really? Was there like
Michael Zarick: whispers?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Because I think I know what you're talking about.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's, even if I'm not in that space, it's gonna be an amazing, [00:34:00] um, just resource for the whole community. Mm-hmm. So I'm happy about it either way, but
Michael Zarick: Cool.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I don't know what else to talk about. Do you have anything else that you bring up or whatcha are you thinking about? What on your mind?
Savannah Jacob: I thinking about
Michael Zarick: mind? There's a lot of the things you can be thinking about. Yeah.
Heated rivalry.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. That's been a really good distraction, um, from all of the lake.
Political turmoil. Um, I know you know this, but I mm-hmm. Am pretty political online and pretty in tune with that. And it can be really heavy and exhausting and hard not to like, consume your whole mental space. But I do think art is a great form of resistance and it's what, it's what I personally feel I have to do to like get through this.
So
Michael Zarick: I would say that you lot about that your online persona is much, um, stronger than your like in person. Like, 'cause in person you're like pretty, uh, reserved.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. You think so? Okay. I don't know if that's,
Michael Zarick: or maybe, maybe that's like,
Savannah Jacob: I feel about
Michael Zarick: that. Maybe that's [00:35:00] a comfort thing where it's like once you get closer to somebody, you're like,
Savannah Jacob: chill.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Fight them.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I don't know. But yeah, so I'm thinking a lot about that. I am, you know, thinking about what we're at the beginning of the year right now, so thinking a lot about what's gonna happen throughout the year as far as like business and things go, um. Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking about.
Michael Zarick: Amazing. Let's move on to the canned question. Uh, this always brings up good conversation anyways, so I'm excited. Hey, Third Space Indy is sponsored by City Rising
Savannah Jacob: Oh yeah.
Michael Zarick: Dot org. Mark Latta has decided I'm gonna wait. Mark Latta has decided to sponsor the podcast. Um, lemme find my blurb.
Savannah Jacob: Oh. Which, if I'm right, his partner is Martha, right?
Martha, yeah. And she is, who has done an amazing job with Feast of Lanterns. Mm-hmm. With making it what it is. So shout out to her too. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Martha Latta, I am interested in having her on the podcast.
Savannah Jacob: We [00:36:00] should,
Michael Zarick: um, we, I asked her about it. She goes, I will not advertise Feast of Lanterns because I am, she goes too many people.
So, sorry.
Savannah Jacob: Sorry
Michael Zarick: I
Savannah Jacob: take that back.
Michael Zarick: She goes, too many people show up to it. And I said, okay, let's talk about the other stuff around it.
Savannah Jacob: That's fair. Okay.
Michael Zarick: I was like, I wanna talk about like the. Sorry, bureaucracy. Sorry about the No, no, the bureau, I think talking about like the bureaucracy of running a neighborhood, um, event would be really interesting.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah,
Michael Zarick: because I, my wife and I like talk 45 minutes about getting like permits.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, yeah. Well there's probably people here right now you can talk to about that.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. With
Savannah Jacob: the Bates one, but Okay. Sorry. Sorry to
Michael Zarick: No, we're back. Uh, city Rising is a social impact studio that leads and supports innovative projects that strengthen, celebrate and repair people and places.
If you're a people or you're the leader of a place or an organization that's interested in improving your lived or built environment, reach out to me, reach out to City Rising or Mark Latta and we'll get you hooked up with some stuff that will improve those things. [00:37:00] We did it.
Savannah Jacob: Nice.
Michael Zarick: Uh, mark has sponsored a po a question mark has sponsored a question on the podcast, which is, what is a third place to you?
Savannah Jacob: Third place to me, I think I align pretty heavily with the definition you gave in the beginning, a place that isn't work or home. Um, but I kinda have a caveat to that to add. Like I do think the best Third Space is not that this is like a requirement, but I do think it makes it better if it's free or at least very low cost to enter.
Um, yeah.
Michael Zarick: Any specifics that pop into your mind?
Savannah Jacob: Of like places
Michael Zarick: that
Savannah Jacob: you
Michael Zarick: like.
Savannah Jacob: I mean, I love this place. I love how come
Michael Zarick: you come in here?
Savannah Jacob: Um, it depends on the time of year. Okay. How busy I am. Um, I was in here last week and I'll be in here next week and I'm in here right now. So it just depends on like what's going on in my, I use it a lot as kind of like an out of home like office in a lot of ways.
Like I'll come here if I need to do computer work or something of that sort. Um, they have a [00:38:00] laundromat here, which I don't use, but I know a lot of people do and that's awesome too. So
Michael Zarick: it's pretty cheap. It's like a
Savannah Jacob: dollar 50 and it's cheap. Yeah. Like even though you come here and you're kind of like expected to buy a coffee, it's still like a low cost entry and to me that's what makes the best Third Space so
Michael Zarick: amazing.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Uh, an extension of that question, Mars,
Savannah Jacob: she said, Hey,
Michael Zarick: who are you looking at? Mars? An extension of that question. Um, what is a third place? That has existed for you previously? Existed for you previously? Um, that no longer does.
Savannah Jacob: I, I've thought about this question a lot because I knew it was coming. Um, so I have two answers and one is Indy and one is from my childhood.
And the one in Indy is offensive art. I don't
Michael Zarick: know. Offensive.
Savannah Jacob: A fence. A Fence Of Art.
Michael Zarick: A fence of art.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. It's kind of a double. Yeah,
Michael Zarick: yeah,
Savannah Jacob: yeah. Um, but it used to be in the Wildwood parking lot and it happened, I don't know if it was every [00:39:00] weekend or like every other weekend or something, but it was $5 to vend there.
It was just local artists who just set up your booth there and it was just a really cool, like, thing that doesn't exist now. And neither does Wildwood, which is kind of sad.
Michael Zarick: Who like, um,
Savannah Jacob: organized it
Michael Zarick: well. More, more like what was the art that was there? Or was it just like a little popup thing that it
Savannah Jacob: was definitely just a little popup thing.
So, and that was like one of the first shows I ever did. So, you know, nothing like. Too fancy or
Michael Zarick: mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: Pretentious or anything like that. Just very lowkey art. More craft crafty stuff too. Yeah. Um, and anybody could do it, so it didn't, I mean, obviously art and courage, but like mm-hmm. There'd be anybody there.
So
Michael Zarick: when you were getting started, you just, because you just said this was one of the first shows you did mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: Like when
Michael Zarick: you were getting started, was it terrifying to like, go to an art show and be like, here's my stuff?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, it was at first too, and just also like, you look like
Michael Zarick: Mars
Savannah Jacob: and you're like, yeah.
I was like, oh God, what's happening? It, it's also [00:40:00] intimidating, um, just with different shows too, like the bigger shows I do, the more nervous it kind of is. If you haven't done that before and you don't know like, what's expected or like what other people are gonna like, be displaying or how cool their displays are, and you kind of feel insecure at first, but the longer you do it and the more people you talk to, it's like, oh, nobody here cares.
They just want all of us to like do well and succeed. And it's like, there's nothing to worry about, like. You're gonna get there one way or the other. So like, yeah, at first I was definitely nervous, but now I'm just kind of like, ah, it's no big deal.
Michael Zarick: You just like show up.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um,
Savannah Jacob: but my second one, um, and this is my childhood one.
My, so I grew up in southern Indiana and my grandparents, nobody's gonna know that.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, that's not true. There's, there's some freaks.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Okay. Owensburg, which is the only, I don't know that, but
Michael Zarick: somebody will,
Savannah Jacob: somebody might, um, Owensburg. And the only reason that you might know it is because it is right outside of the Crane Navy base.
Hmm, yes. We have a navy base in southern [00:41:00] Indiana, um, which if you lived in that area, probably at least somebody, you know, if not all of your family is gonna work there 'cause there's nowhere else to work.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: Um, so that's where I grew up. All woods. We didn't even have like neighbors or anything. Um, and my grandparents owned a junkyard and as kids we were just set free there.
Michael Zarick: Wait, that's awesome.
Savannah Jacob: We could just do whatever. That
Michael Zarick: doesn't sound safe,
Savannah Jacob: but I
Michael Zarick: love it.
Savannah Jacob: You can just take it Not safe at all. Somehow. We never got hurt though. I
Michael Zarick: don't
Savannah Jacob: No TEUs. Yeah, no Tedd. We, we were like required to get our TEUs shots every year. My mom made sure of it. Um, but we had four wheelers and we just like ride through the junkyard and jump across all like the car hoods and it was just.
Michael Zarick: That sounds sick.
Savannah Jacob: A really magical place, honestly. Um, and it, it's still there, but you know, it's not there in the sense that it was there when I was a kid where it's like, oh, this is, you're
Michael Zarick: not gonna hang out there
Savannah Jacob: place. Yeah. Not gonna hang out there.
Michael Zarick: How old were you when you stopped hanging out there?
Savannah Jacob: Honestly, high school. Like, we still, like, I rode four wheelers and stuff through there, like all through high school. But then probably my senior year I became like less interested in, in that [00:42:00] probably
Michael Zarick: in junk?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, in junk.
Michael Zarick: I see. That's kind of funny. Like I feel like, remember I talked to you before we started recording about um, like getting into more
Savannah Jacob: pretentious art.
You
Michael Zarick: can call that pretentious art. Like artsy, I was gonna say artsy fartsy, but like,
Savannah Jacob: yeah.
Michael Zarick: It's, it would be interesting for you to, um, incorporate like junk
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Into it
Savannah Jacob: could be really
Michael Zarick: cool ceramics in some way.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Or just like have that, uh, highlight of your like, early childhood. I think that'd be interesting.
Yeah.
Savannah Jacob: I'll have to, um, send you a picture of this, but, so my dad, all my family kind of has like a craftsman or like artsy capabilities, even if they're not like utilizing it in a really obvious way. Um, but for Christmas, my dad welded, um, a bird for me made out of silverware, and then he also welded a massive Pokemon statue out of just like scrap metal for, um, my husband.
And I was like, what the heck, dad? You just popped off and made this out of like scraps. And he was like, oh, yeah, I just felt like it, like
Michael Zarick: he's like, I was feeling it.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. And we were [00:43:00] like, oh, could you do like something else like this? And he was like, no, I'm not doing that ever again.
Michael Zarick: That's, that's funny.
Savannah Jacob: But yeah, so my family does, um, stuff in that like realm of like repurposing things.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: So,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Do you have a specific, um, memory of the junkyard that like pops out at you?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Um, yeah, so in high school, and this is not like a cozy good memory necessarily, but um, one of my high school friends and I, we were like out there and we found this crowbar that's like so random.
We found this crowbar in one of the cars and just being like high schoolers, like mischievous, like assholes. We busted out some windshields of the cars and I guess one of them was one that my grandpa really cared about, and
oh
Savannah Jacob: yeah, we got, we, I got in big trouble about it and it wasn't even like the kind of trouble where it's like, oh, this is your punishment.
It was like, I'm disappointed in you, which was rough, especially for my grandpa 'cause he never got like that, not with me. And I was like, damn.
Michael Zarick: There's um, [00:44:00] what's the quote about, like the fear, the rage of a silent man or whatever, that type of thing. I remember it was working at a summer camp, at my summer camp.
And I am not an angry person at all.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, no.
Michael Zarick: In fact, working at, uh, summer camp, like
Savannah Jacob: the summer camp kids
Michael Zarick: though,
Savannah Jacob: don't bring that out of you.
Michael Zarick: I was annoyingly, annoyingly happy all the time. Um, but I remember, so we used to do a canoe trip on the Ohio River. Oh, wow. So we'd take the, we'd drive up in our camp bus a little further up the river ride down.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, cool.
Michael Zarick: And then, uh, hike back afterwards. Nice. Um, so it'd be like a full day thing. And I just remember there was a storm that was coming once.
Savannah Jacob: Oh no.
Michael Zarick: And we were like, we have to get off this river, or we were just gonna get like, it was on the river
Savannah Jacob: as it's coming, Uhhuh. Oh man.
Michael Zarick: And I have these campers, so everyone's rushing.
Everyone is like paddling, freaking
Savannah Jacob: out.
Michael Zarick: But there's these campers who I consider good campers. I know who they are. I'm not gonna name them. [00:45:00] Um. Oh, and they were just like dilly dallying. And they were, they were excellent campers. And I was like, you were messing around. I like looked at them and I was like, you need to paddle right now.
I in the much angrier voice than
Savannah Jacob: this. And they're like, oh man.
Michael Zarick: And they, I think just something about my tone, like scared them.
Savannah Jacob: They heard, they were like,
Michael Zarick: and they were like, immediately got to the, the front of the pack. They were like, sent it. And I was like, and they were like, they were like, Zurich.
Everyone called me by my last name. They were like, Zurich, I've never heard you that mad in my life. I was so afraid because I was like, we, and we, I, I think we made it like we were not like rained on or anything, but it
Savannah Jacob: was, you gotta know when to leverage that.
Michael Zarick: I was like,
Savannah Jacob: yeah,
Michael Zarick: no. I just like, don't really get mad, but it, it's like in this moment it's like, I need you to move, please.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. Yeah, man. But yeah, it was so bad that like, yeah, I still remember that over a decade later of just like my grandpa's disappointment.
Michael Zarick: Is he still alive?
Savannah Jacob: No he isn't. Um, he died a few years ago, but the drunkard's still there. Um. There's a lot of cool [00:46:00] cars in it. Um, yeah, honestly, I would, I'd like to go back and like check it out and see if it's like, exactly how I remember probably is nothing's moved.
So,
Michael Zarick: oh, so you mentioned, um, what was the name of your town? Sorry?
Savannah Jacob: Owensburg. Owensburg, yeah. We got a stoplight and nothing else.
Michael Zarick: So, uh, at Monon Coffee there's this, there's these old guys who like talk to each other.
Savannah Jacob: Of course
Michael Zarick: they're there like every day. But one of them was telling a story about growing up in Alert Indiana.
Did you, did you know there's a town in Indiana called Alert?
Savannah Jacob: I did not.
Michael Zarick: And he was saying that before Alert was named Alert, it was named Dog Town.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, okay.
Michael Zarick: And so
Savannah Jacob: it's very,
Michael Zarick: this was like a hundred years ago.
Savannah Jacob: Okay.
Michael Zarick: So it was called Dog Town. Uh, and apparently like the postmaster or something like that was like, or the mayor or whatever.
I don't know. It was like, he's like, we need to rename the town. Everyone in this town's pretty [00:47:00] alert. And so they like changed the name from Dog Town to alert.
Savannah Jacob: Okay.
Michael Zarick: Vienna. And this is like a hundred years ago. Like, and there's no document. I've like looked that
Savannah Jacob: up. I was in
Michael Zarick: Wikipedia. There's no documentation.
And then apparently this is just like
Savannah Jacob: rumor,
Michael Zarick: like
Savannah Jacob: lore of the town.
Michael Zarick: Well this is a guy who grew up there who I guess just heard it like through the grapevine.
Savannah Jacob: Dang.
Michael Zarick: So it's either just like small town lore or like made up.
Savannah Jacob: Made up. Totally made up fiction. Wow.
Michael Zarick: Uh, but who has ever thought about Alert Indiana, who's just like,
Savannah Jacob: yeah, not me.
Didn't even know it existed. But,
Michael Zarick: um, all right. This question is from the previous guest, Keon Michael Brown.
Savannah Jacob: Nice.
Michael Zarick: Not Michael Keon Brown as I called him to his face.
Savannah Jacob: Oh no.
Michael Zarick: In, in the intro, but you know, whatever.
Savannah Jacob: Did he immediately correct you?
Michael Zarick: Well, I said, I introduced him as Michael Keon Brown, and then I said
Savannah Jacob: no.
Michael Zarick: I was like, Michael And I paused and I was like, that doesn't sound right. And he looked at me and goes, no. And
Savannah Jacob: I was, no. I was like, come on dude. Damn. [00:48:00]
Michael Zarick: His name is Keon. Um,
his question is, uh, what is something others view other people?
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Maybe they know you, maybe they don't view as a small part of you, but is actually just a huge part of who you are as a person.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, wow.
Michael Zarick: So the answer I gave is, um, actually being a summer camp counselor. I don't think I share that as much now as I did 10 years ago.
Um, but actually like it's a massive part of who I am.
Savannah Jacob: That's interesting. Okay. A small part of me that is actually like really important to me.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Other people maybe perceive it as like really minor.
Savannah Jacob: It is not like a big deal. Um, okay. I don't know if, I don't know if people even like perceive this of me or like even really know this about me, but I really enjoy, like, the way that I counteract any like political turmoil feeling of like restlessness within myself is I just take a clay bag and I [00:49:00] go outside and I pick up trash.
And I know people are probably like, oh, that's nice, like that's a good thing to do or whatever. But it's actually like super important to me. It's important to me for like the full, um, kind of like full circle of my, of doing ceramics is like, then you have this plastic bag left over. And I think it's just really important to respect one, that this clay is coming from the earth.
So like how can you give back to the earth rather than just taking from it. And in a small way, like that's what I do, but it is just like super important to me that that happens and I try to do. Some sustainable things and like other parts of my life where I can like bring your own cup. Um, seems really small, but it's really, it's, it's definitely like a core value of mine, like sustainability, especially in my business.
Like how sustainable and just low waste, low impact. Can we do this?
Michael Zarick: Oh, I was
Savannah Jacob: that bump. I
Michael Zarick: was looking, I was looking for lick.
Savannah Jacob: She was like, nah. But that has gotten [00:50:00] harder 'cause I used to do it, um, when I would walk my dogs and I just had two dogs and now that I got Mars, it's a little harder to carry bag.
Mars is replaced the plastic bag to carry the trash. Picking up her and my three dogs.
Michael Zarick: You're just like a little plastic bag drifting through the wind.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Right. Mars? Um,
Savannah Jacob: that's a good question.
Michael Zarick: When you, when you talk about like, I think that's really nice, like the cyclical nature of, of pottery.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um,
Savannah Jacob: and it gives you time to think about that too.
When you're like picking up trash, you're like, you really start thinking about just like. All these little things gives you time to like process.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Savannah Jacob: Highly recommend.
Michael Zarick: Where do you, who do you get your clay from?
Savannah Jacob: I get my clay from either Amaco or Kentucky. Clay Mud Works. Mm-hmm. Um, shout out to Amaco because it's right here in Indianapolis, which is super awesome.
Feel very privileged to have that right here. A lot of ceramicists don't have a clay place like that, so close by, have to order it. Mm-hmm. Um, which I do order from Kentucky Clay. Shout out to Alexa for always letting me jump on her order. Um, so [00:51:00] yeah, either those two places, which are both pretty local, um, but I don't entirely know like where they source that clay from.
Like, I know it's a dry mix usually that they are mixing up and producing themselves, but I don't know like what mine or like where they're getting that from necessarily. Which might be good to find out.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Savannah Jacob: Now that I'm thinking of it,
Michael Zarick: I remember one of the most mind-blowing things of my entire life, I still think about this.
So at IU Bloomington, they have a ceramics. Program.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, they do a good one
Michael Zarick: now actually. It's actually,
Savannah Jacob: yeah,
Michael Zarick: now what do you mean now?
Savannah Jacob: Well,
Michael Zarick: was it bad before?
Savannah Jacob: Not necessarily bad, but Hair in school of art is part of iu and that used to be like known as like, oh, this is like the good art school to go to.
But now IU Bloomington has really like kicked up their art program a lot in the past couple years to the point where I'm kind of like, man, if I was like going back to school now, like I don't, IU Bloomington is pretty appealing.
Michael Zarick: I, it was impressive to me when I was there in 2016. So, um, it's
Savannah Jacob: even, probably even more so now, but,
Michael Zarick: so there was a, another ceramic student, his name was Michael also
Savannah Jacob: of course,
Michael Zarick: huge pothead.
But guess I in ways that makes sense because [00:52:00] that's true. I was like a ceramic student that's smoked mostly. I'm the
Savannah Jacob: first person to make that joke either. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Uh, a
Savannah Jacob: wait, I think I remember you talking about him on a previous episode,
Michael Zarick: maybe.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, but this is somebody who I never hung out with. Ever, ever.
Savannah Jacob: You just know of him.
Michael Zarick: I just knew him and I saw him regularly. And I just knew he was a ceramic student and he took me into the ceramic studio once.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, nice.
Michael Zarick: And so he had an impact on me.
Savannah Jacob: Cool.
Michael Zarick: Um, but uh, he just like seeing the ceramic studio, 'cause you talk about dry mix
Savannah Jacob: mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: They had all of these different bags of different types of mix.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And that was so mind blowing to me of like, oh my God, you can, like, I was like, you can have different types of clay. Like, it, it didn't even make sense to me. Like I, um, or like, he talked about like making their own glazes and I was like, what? Like you can do that. Yeah. Um, I just
Savannah Jacob: remember make all my own glazes.
So I have a lot of dry mix for that, but yeah.
Michael Zarick: So do you do like, uh, ratios and stuff?
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. I wish I paid more attention in chemistry class in high school. [00:53:00] I didn't. I was like, I'm gonna be an artist who cares about this and I care now.
Michael Zarick: And you're like, that's what the assistants
Savannah Jacob: for. Yeah. I'm like, damn it, measuring it up.
Like, oh my gosh, I really wish I knew more about
Michael Zarick: this. I think I would've been an excellent chemist, but. I'm gonna call him out by name. Mark ? No.
Savannah Jacob: Oh no.
Michael Zarick: High school chemistry teacher.
Savannah Jacob: Uhoh.
Michael Zarick: Total dick.
Savannah Jacob: Oh wow. It must have been real bad. 'cause you have no,
Michael Zarick: I
Savannah Jacob: no qualms about saying and so what if he listens to this?
Michael Zarick: I do not care. I just like, genuinely like I thought chemistry was so cool.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I love the idea of like, damn, I, I at its face, like chemistry is the dopest science. Because you like, I'm thinking like Bill, I, the science guy, like pouring stuff in this stuff. Chemistry is really boring. Like, because there's a lot of math.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: But, and maybe, maybe it's not Marwa. I'm doing this reflection right now.
Savannah Jacob: You're like,
Michael Zarick: but also like when you, uh, [00:54:00] chemistry was probably one of the sciences I was most excited to take in high school. The first time I took it was then
Savannah Jacob: you just didn't foster
Michael Zarick: to that love and he's just not a nice person.
Savannah Jacob: That sucks. Uh.
Michael Zarick: And like when you, I don't even wanna say I was struggling. It's just like when you have questions, he treats you like a fool. It's like,
Savannah Jacob: hmm, that's not okay. Especially in high school
Michael Zarick: anyways, I feel like in a different life, I'm wearing a lab coat somewhere. That's it.
Savannah Jacob: If only, if only that high school teacher could have been better.
Uh, but
Michael Zarick: um,
Savannah Jacob: and I will say I do the very, like most basic math and chemistry for these glazes. Like, I'm not doing anything too complicated because the skill isn't there. It's just not, it's just not. Um,
Michael Zarick: do you ever like get, is this, are there like, is gonna sound so goofy, but are there like, um, so if you were to wanna make like lasagna, you would go.
To Google a type las recipe. Mm-hmm. Are there like,
Savannah Jacob: yes. Glaze recipes, there's glaze recipes, there's a whole app called Glaze, and [00:55:00] it's all glaze recipes. Um, really helpful. Um, and then potters amongst themselves will like, share recipes. Awesome. Just like a cookbook
basically.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I feel like there's a lot of that type of stuff that you don't even think about.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. But then like minerals and things will be depleted or like really hard to access and that'll like screw up your whole, like everything. And it can be a really big problem. Even just a slight change in material can really mess things up. Mm-hmm. Um, I haven't had that happen in a while, just 'cause my glazes are so simple.
But for people making complex glazes, there's, yeah. Especially during COVID, it was like hard to get certain things and certain things were not like accessible at all anymore. And yeah. So that's a whole other situation. But,
but you don't care. Mars, you don't care. Sure. Just tomorrow. Mars,
Michael Zarick: what are you getting? A
Savannah Jacob: job. A long dog. You need to support yourself.
Michael Zarick: Um, one last question, Savannah. What question would you like to ask the next Third Space [00:56:00] Indys?
Savannah Jacob: I'm so excited for this. I've been thinking about it. Um, I would like to ask, what is your favorite way to experience art in Indianapolis?
So think like first Fridays new Fields murals, um, I know you just had on like a dj. Do you like to experience art that way? Like what's your favorite way to experience it specifically here in the city?
Michael Zarick: I think the next guest will answer that. Well,
Savannah Jacob: sweet.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Savannah Jacob: Do you have an answer or do you wait till the end to answer?
Michael Zarick: No, I can answer. Uh, gimme a moment.
Savannah Jacob: I know that's the thing about these questions, like, damn, I have to answer like right
Michael Zarick: here, right now. Well, for me, like the, this is gonna sound so silly, so let me, let me recon, contextualize my life for you. I do this podcast about third spaces. And I don't think I have like a good personal Third Space.
Like people ask me like, what's your favorite Third Space? It's like, I, first of all you like, plus whatever, whatever answer I give you is not gonna be good for you. Like, that's not,
Savannah Jacob: [00:57:00] yeah. It's, yeah.
Michael Zarick: And second of all, like in a lot of ways, like this podcast is what I do to
Savannah Jacob: cultivate that,
Michael Zarick: to connect with people.
Savannah Jacob: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Um, but I don't have like a consistent space that I feel like comfortable going to other than, uh, I will say like going to Thieves.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, nice.
Michael Zarick: In DER Bowl. I go there for coffee. I do not go for like, there, for co I've gone there for cocktails one time. Um, oh, they
Savannah Jacob: have both. Okay. I've never been
Michael Zarick: there.
Yeah. It's just, it's a coffee shop to me and I really enjoy going in and talking to the staff in the morning. Nice. 'cause like I work for a west coast company.
Savannah Jacob: Oh, okay.
Michael Zarick: Um. And, uh, I don't have like meetings before 11 like ever.
Savannah Jacob: I was gonna say, so you're on West Coast project? Yeah, I
Michael Zarick: just like go in for like two hours in the morning, just talk to baristas.
They're probably, and I think they're thankful 'cause it's not super busy, so I'm just like there to distract them. Um, all that said, how do I like to experience art? I think is, uh, an interesting question for me because again, through this podcast, like
Savannah Jacob: mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: [00:58:00] I have like, I love variety and I just love absorbing as much as I can.
So like, my very first podcast was with Megan Jefferson, who's a muralist.
Savannah Jacob: Yes. That's why I was introduced to you. Oh yeah, she choose,
Michael Zarick: that's right.
Savannah Jacob: Uh, 'cause her, I think it's her husband was, uh, my ceramics teacher in, in college at Heron School of Art, so. Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Um, but then also like, I love ceramics like a lot.
Yeah. I think ceramics is incredible and I, my my best answer to your question is just. And I think this is true of many things in my life, is just as natural as possible.
Savannah Jacob: I like that
Michael Zarick: in whatever way it appears before me.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, yeah, anyways. Sweet. Let's wrap it up.
Savannah Jacob: Let's wrap it up.
Michael Zarick: Mar, you're so funny.
Savannah Jacob: She's such a goofy
Michael Zarick: dog. Uh, Savannah, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Thursday. Cindy, can you tell the people where they can find you?
Savannah Jacob: [00:59:00] Yes. Um, I'm most active on Instagram. Um, my Instagram handle is sab, S-A-B-I-J, J-A-C-O-B. Um, and then there's an
Michael Zarick: I in there.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah, there is. Which kind of throws people off.
I didn't even know that. There's like, it's the I and then two js, so like three dots. Um, and then the neighbors gallery, let me make sure I get like the name, because the name of the neighbors gallery, Instagram is kind of long Neighbors Gallery, Bates Hendricks. Um, and that's where. You can find all the details about the neighbor's gallery.
So yeah, you can find me there. You can find me@sjaart.com. You can find me at your local festival.
Michael Zarick: Oh, a quick, quick aside, did you, um, at the Louisville Art show that I was texting you during
Savannah Jacob: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Did you end up going to a restaurant?
Savannah Jacob: I didn't.
Michael Zarick: Okay, that's fine.
Savannah Jacob: I did. I love the Melwood Event Center though, and that antique mall attached to it mm-hmm.
Is amazing.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. You can get lost in there. It's just like the one here.
Savannah Jacob: You literally. [01:00:00] Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Um, what's the one here called?
Savannah Jacob: Uh, Midland. Midland.
Michael Zarick: It's just like Midland, so, yeah. But it's all along the river.
Savannah Jacob: Yeah. But yeah, next time I'm there, I'll take up some of your recommendations.
Michael Zarick: It's all good. Uh, anyways, thanks so much for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy.
You can find me at Third Space Indy on instagram.com. Wait not instagram com. Com. You can find me at Third Space Indy on Instagram or at Third Space Indy dot com, where I write a blog with every episode most of the time.
Savannah Jacob: Wild that you do that.
Michael Zarick: It's, uh, gotten draining recently. Uh, thank you so much for, to City Rising for sponsoring the podcast.
And thank you as always to the local artist Jennasen for giving me your music to use as the intro music to my show. Once again, thank you for watching or listening. Have a great day. Goodbye. Thank you, Mars.
Savannah Jacob: Bye.
[01:01:00]
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