Ep. 23 - Patrick Armstrong - Host of The Conversation Piece Podcast
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Intro
More recently I have been referring to Third Space Indy as a research project. One for myself, but a research project. Thankfully, as with many types of research I have found that there are others who are interested in my field of study as well.
In the beginning of the year, before starting the podcast I did a bit of “market research” to see other local community focused podcasts and found none… I must not have looked that hard because soon after starting I discovered Conversation Piece and behind it Patrick Armstrong.
I felt, as I have so many times this year, a moment of serendipity as I learned that he was within his “year of community” starting with current state senator Andrea Hunley and quickly moving to have a couple of ‘emergency conversations’ with immigration experts and local teachers to talk about quickly developing topics.
This is someone I knew thought of people in the same way I do as individuals who each contribute themselves to the community in which they live. Patrick Armstrong interweaves his personal growth journey learning about what it means to be Asian American, as someone who was raised apart from any cultural heritage as a transracial Korean adoptee in Rensselaer, IN, into each of his conversations. This draws a deeper connection between him and his guests to create something always worth listening to as all involved do active introspection. So as always, I’m thankful to be able to call him a friend and now guest on the podcast. I hope you enjoy.
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Production learnings
Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
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Important links and mentions
Patrick Armstrong
Production learnings from the episode
I actually think this one went quite well. Patrick gave a couple of pointers before we started and I actually performed my checklist of tasks. It’s mentioned in the podcast but at a couple of points the room gets really dark, but of course, the iPhone cheats and it most just greys/blues the image. I think overall it was a great time.
On a personal note, I like this extremely casusal format of sitting in the same room on a couch. Both speakers are highly visible and it makes clipping the podcast easier. Overall I’m really happy with the output here.
One note: I did leave my tripod at home, but luckily when going to a fellow podcaster’s home, it was a not a huge risk anyways.
Preamble to the Next Header
I have been thinking a lot about what it means to be “political.” In fact I think more statements than you think are “political” in nature, it’s just a matter of your personal politics on how you perceive it.
For example, I do not think that in a housing shortage, which we have here in Indianapolis, that buying an “investment property” is something I agree with. So by telling me that you are buying a property to act as a landlord over, you are inherently speaking “politics” to me. Most people would not think that way, because being a landlord is just something people do right now. Standard and accepted.
Another example — I went to a Colts game this weekend and it was “Salute to Service” night in honor of veterans. There is nothing inherently wrong with honoring veterans, in fact, I think they should be assisted more because veteran homelessness and healthcare in this country is a hot mess. No one should have to sell their body like that and be let out to dry… but I’m getting off topic.
The Colts held this veterans night and then proceeded to fire off fireworks during the national anthem, potentially triggering any veterans in attendance. They displayed a veteran family who’s house had recently burnt down and then presented them with a new Toyota Forerunner. I am not certain that a car can replace the house, but I’m glad you got your ad-spot. And lastly, during half time there was a performance of “Proud to be an American” with a display of the different military branch banners. However, I got a bit of dissonance here because while this was happening, kickers and quarterbacks for both teams were practicing in the midst of the performance.
All this to say, I don’t personally draw a lot of true “we support the veterans” energy from this. I think this is inherently political in nature, but “supporting the troops” — no matter how performative — is the norm, standard and accepted. Getting a discount on jalapeno poppers is not supporting veterans, that is an ad campaign.
So all this to say, I am taking a newer approach to how I think about politics and political statements. With that said, preamble over.
On “Whiteness”
I want to take more time to expound on the conversation Patrick and I have toward the beginning of the podcast. I have shared a couple of times that over the past couple of months I have been learning more about my heritage as not only a Lebanese-American, but more specfically now, a Syrian-Lebanese-American.
I have never felt truly Lebanese, and I have never known myself to be Syrian until recently. I have only known myself as ‘White’ my entire life, certainly it was the thing I checked off at the doctors office. This, such is the theme of the podcast, is never true. Nobody is ‘just’ anything, we have culture and heritage and ancestors that lived lives as full and meaningful as ours. And more importantly, our ancestors, especially 3-4 generations removed, would never have thought of themselves as “white.” For me, they would have been Syrian, for you it may have been Italian, Irish, or English — not white.
To clarify more deeply, the reason “white culture” is not recognized, is because of the fact of the above, there are direct lines we can draw to our past, more specific and singular cultures. The reason “Black culture” IS a thing is because for many Black Americans, the direct ancestral line was snipped due to chattel slavery. So that need for cultural connection, identity, and expression was reborn and remade as “Black culture.”
This is one of the things that Dr. Ewing adresses in her book Orignal Sin in regard to our early education. “Whiteness” is a colonial ideology that seeks to destroy other cultures and unify under a single dangerous amorphous and unyielding blob. In the context of the book this is done through the American education system, but in reality it happens in all parts of life. We can see this now with the actions of the government to remove many non-white faces from the US.
So while I am thankful for the rediscovery of my Syrian heritage, it has been interesting to think about in the grand scheme of my life and something I will continue to reflect on.
I hope this provided some insight into my thinking and maybe stoked some thoughts for you. Thanks for reading and listening.
Third Space Indy is supported by City Rising
Episode Summary
Patrick Armstrong on Community, Identity, and the Indianapolis Creative Scene
In this episode of Third Space Indy, host Michael Zarick interviews Patrick Armstrong, local podcaster and creative community advocate. Armstrong discusses various themes such as the challenges and support systems within the Indianapolis creative scene, his personal journey as an Asian American adoptee, and his efforts to support local artists. Armstrong speaks about his live shows, the importance of authenticity in supporting local talent, and the concept of 'third spaces' where people can engage and feel safe. The conversation highlights the transformative power of community and the need for spaces where people can genuinely connect and express themselves.
00:00 Introduction to Indy and Its People
01:15 Host Introduction and Call for Audience Participation
02:34 Guest Introduction: Patrick Armstrong
07:09 Patrick's Journey and Personal Growth
12:59 Exploring Identity and Culture
24:46 Parenthood and Community Engagement
30:05 Indianapolis Hip Hop Scene
41:37 The Joys of Podcasting
45:45 Unfiltered Moments and Comedy Bang Bang
47:10 Transitioning Topics and Episode Length
47:27 Sponsor Shoutout and Third Space Discussion
50:51 Reflecting on Personal Third Spaces
56:05 Local Artists and Music Scene
01:03:54 Favorite Meals and Restaurant Recommendations
01:15:23 Upcoming Events and Final Thoughts
Episode Transcript
Patrick Armstrong
Patrick Armstrong: [00:00:00] the story of Indy is the, is the people that are here that make up the city.
If you're looking for themes and through lines, one of the themes that you're gonna find is that people be putting in the work, they're passionate about what they do, and they've faced a not insignificant amount of barriers to try and get there. Not everybody gets there. But the people that do get there people show up for them. And I think that's the biggest thing that I think, you didn't ask me this question, but like the biggest misconception I think that a lot of people have about Indy is like we don't really support each other and like we actually do.
It's just we are supporting people who we see have been doing that same thing as us. Like struggling to get where they are. But there's like a, respect for what it means to come through the ranks of Indy, I think creative scene in whatever kind of thing that you do. And I think people are gonna rally around the ones who have really been doing it, [00:01:00] doing it authentically.
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name's Michael Zarick and this is Third Space Indy. A quick announcement before we begin. I have been wanting to show off more of Indianapolis, uh, in whatever way I can. And there are like tens of you who listen regularly and some of you are, uh, very outgoing. Uh, and I'm looking at you, Mr. Anderson York. So I would love. If you, whoever you are, sent over a short video or an audio recording, recording, telling me your name, what Indianapolis neighborhood you live in, or you rep, and what your favorite third place is. Uh, and I'll have fun with it. You know, do whatever you think is appropriate.
Uh, and I'll include it in the podcast in the future. So shout out to you, whoever you listen, whoever you [00:02:00] are, uh, and send over some stuff. I want to include you.
Hey, quick cut in here. I also wanted to add that you should mention you're listening to Third Space Indy, and you should send your submission to thirdspaceindy@gmail.com Thanks for listening, uh, back to the show.
Patrick Armstrong: That's fun.
Michael Zarick: It is fun.
Patrick Armstrong: I like that. Yeah. Sorry. No, I'm jumping in.
Michael Zarick: Uh, great. So I have an intro that I wrote. Uh, so
Patrick Armstrong: you, okay. First off, you don't normally write intros, I don't think.
No. Intentionally. So now I feel,
Michael Zarick: yeah.
Uh,
ready? Yeah, go for it. Today's guest is somebody I consider to be one of Indianapolis' best. This person is a Korean adoptee, a transplant from Rensselaer, Indiana, a serial podcaster who, who hosts the Janchi show, the Conversation piece podcast, and its extension, the open door.
He makes every guest on his show feel like Daenerys Targaryen with their list of titles and accomplishments, and then follows [00:03:00] through with an engaging conversation that ties his personal growth journey with chats about community, self-love, and a deeper appreciation for the city where we live.
Indianapolis, this person is a driver of local community events, a talented conversationalist and mc, and a lover of local musicians, especially in the local hip hop space in which he used to be a direct participant. Under the pseudonym Pat, the Prodigy direct participant is on songs like Ridin'. Oh, Solar Conversations and Clarity.
Oh God. This is someone who inspires me regularly and I think someone who I inspire on occasion as well. He is someone I think of as a friend I just made and one who I think will remain for many years to come. And more importantly than all the before, he is a proud Cottage Home neighborhood, husband, and a father of one.
Without further ado, it's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Patrick [00:04:00] Armstrong.
Patrick Armstrong: Thanks for having me, man. How was that? I loved it. That was amazing. Uh, it's hilarious that you mentioned Daenerys Targaryen because I just went and visited, uh, some Indy creators and one of their fans sent them. A bunch of official replicas of the weapons of Game of Thrones that they have displayed that's in their studio.
It was awesome. I was like, what the hell?
Michael Zarick: There's a, there's a content creator, her name's Valkyrae, and she just has, like, she's a live streamer and on her wall behind her is just a bunch of swords. Nice. And I'm, this is cool
Patrick Armstrong: local to hear or streamer from here? She's, no, she's, she lives in
Michael Zarick: LA but like, I think some of them, she's forged herself, like has gone to a blacksmith and like
Patrick Armstrong: Yeah.
Forged them.
Michael Zarick: It's like, that'd be so cool.
Patrick Armstrong: Do you watch a lot of live streamers? Yeah. Okay.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. I'm a gamer. I'm a live stream man.
Patrick Armstrong: Okay. Um, the Normies, are you familiar with the Normies? No. That's who, so they're, so they're based outta here, but that's who I went and saw. Oh, really? I
Michael Zarick: love to see, like, so when I lived in Arkansas, there was a, a woman who was a live streamer, um, who I knew [00:05:00] locally and I tried to reach out to her, which obviously would never respond to me.
Why would you? Um, 'cause that's, no, that's sketchy. She probably gets a lot of requests like that. Um, but it's like. I love the idea of just like a local person like that who's found success in such a, for sure. A unique space. Yeah. Um, speaking of find suc, finding success in unique spaces.
Patrick Armstrong: I don't know about the word success, but,
Michael Zarick: oh, come on.
Uh, Patrick Armstrong is a local podcaster, as I mentioned in the intro, for the people who don't know who you are, which is many. 'cause I mentioned to you a lot. Damn.
Patrick Armstrong: You just said, call me successful. And now you're saying that nobody knows who I am. Uh, can you, no, I'm just kidding.
Michael Zarick: Can you? Yeah. We live in separate worlds, sort of, even though you called me a competitor, uh, can you tell the people who you are?
Patrick Armstrong: Yeah. We are, we are competitors. Even though I've been, uh, resisting competition as a concept recently in 2025, um, it's friendly. It's like when you are on the [00:06:00] same track team. As, uh, we recently talked about on the bonus episode of conversation. Oh, that's funny. Um, you're kind of, you're friendly competition with each other, so it pushed each other to get better.
Michael Zarick: Do you like, look at, uh, well first of all, say who you are.
Patrick Armstrong: Sorry, we're getting to you in the weeds. You're, I mean, you covered it all. Uh, Korean adoptee, Asian American. Um, I really love basketball. That's really top of mind because before he came here I was watching a lot of basketball highlights. 'cause the NBA kicked off its season last night.
Um, dad, husband, I would say I'm trying to become a better community member, so I'm working on that right now. I don't wanna say that I'm a good community member. I do podcasts. I've actually had to fill out a bio a lot recently and I think I'm gonna lean into professional yapper as my title of choice. Um, I usually have to get
Michael Zarick: a job recently.
For sure what I, I said that in a job interview, and that's how I, that's how I got my job that I have.
Patrick Armstrong: Perfect. See, now I feel like I am, I can't use it because [00:07:00] you've used it now in a very impactful way. So I feel like it's, they don't know you have the me you have all the power in it now, but, uh, no, but I feel like, yeah, I just talk a lot.
Uh, for 30 years I lived in a deep state of rejection, of my identity as an Asian person. Um, had a good mundane, basically life up until that point. Uh, and then at 30 I experienced some things that led me to start unpacking and better understanding my identity. And that's put me in a position to sit on my couch and talk to you.
Michael Zarick: That's amazing. One last note that I wrote, um, and it's actually very topical to what you just said. You were just on a podcast, it was called The Banh Mi Hour. Is that what it's called?
Patrick Armstrong: Oh yeah. The Banh Mi Chronicles. Banh Mi Chronicles. Yes. Shout out to Randy Kim,
Michael Zarick: you said something I really liked, which is.
Quote, how can I be allied with my, uh, with marginalized people when I'm not allied with myself? Mm. And I thought that was a good summary of [00:08:00] like why I really enjoy listening to your podcast, The Conversation Piece. Oh, thank you. You should listen. The Conversation Piece. Uh,
Patrick Armstrong: sorry about it just got super dark here.
It did just get super dark. Uh, that is actually something that happens in a lot of the virtual podcasts that I do. I've end up in a room or even in the studio at the studs and the lights will go off mid podcast, like mid recording. It's terrible, but it's also hilarious. So, yeah,
Michael Zarick: it's all good. one of the reasons I really enjoy listening to your podcast is the way you tie in your personal experience.
I've been thinking about this a lot because at least at some level, I'm like, default video game character man. Like I'm a white dude, middle class household, six two. Uh, you know, went to public school and private school and all of these things, and I, my, my life experience is so American default in, at least in the terms of the stereotypical American default.
Not truly, because if we're talking [00:09:00] about what it means to be default, I think there's a lot of problems with that. Sure. But when I listen to you, you approach conversations in such a unique, from my perspective way, um, of somebody who's gone through this personal growth journey. Uh, and I love how you tie it into, um, every conversation in a meaningful way.
Patrick Armstrong: Gimme thoughts on that. Well, I, I appreciate that. Well, I think it's, I appreciate you sharing that personal idea of your own lived experience, because I feel like that's what my lived experience was until I had these, like moments of critical consciousness, uh, regarding my identity. I thought I lived a very stereo, like I was essentially a white, mid middle class, mid westerner in everything but skin.
Mm-hmm. So I feel like I intimately understand that and what I had no understanding of was everything else. Yeah. And so I [00:10:00] think like through podcasting and through just sitting down and hearing people share their, their stories or at least their understanding and their perspective of their lived experience, um, what I learned through that practice is just how important it is that we all understand our own experiences because they make up the collective experience.
Like, it, it, it informs humanity itself. The story of humanity. And I think we, the word American has come to mean just general. It's just become generalized. And I think that like we, like we live a, we can think of our, our experiences as stereotypical, like mundane, middle of the road, uh, mpc because we've never been empowered to just like, talk about what we've actually went through.
Mm-hmm. Like if you were to just [00:11:00] talk about specific instances in your life, people would probably be like, oh, shit. That's fucking really interesting. Yeah. And I think by hearing other people talk about their lives, it just gave me a better understanding and better context for understanding my own.
Mm-hmm. And so that then makes me, because I'm a yapper, want to talk about my thing because I'm like, oh man, that made me think about this. Yeah. And I'm like, how does that, how does that affect you? Or how does, like, you know, or like, it, it brings up another question of like, oh, did you feel that way? Or did you resonate in that way?
Um, so sometimes it can kinda be surface level in terms of the conversation, but it's because I'm also doing the digging. At the same time, if that makes sense.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. You're like, you're, you're doing retro, uh, retrospection or introspection. Yeah. Like in the moment.
Patrick Armstrong: Yeah. It's, well, it's kind of hard because it kind, it's kind of counterintuitive to active listening.
Mm-hmm. And because like I was a really bad listener for a long time, and I think what helps me [00:12:00] is the fact that I was so bad at it, uh, for so long because I have to really be intentional about just listening and not loading up for responses. But because I use my lived experience so much, like I'm usually trying to have something to write on or take notes with because I'll, a lot of things that people share will ping something for me.
And for the most part, I don't have enough time to get into all of those things. I have to pick and choose, and. It can be a slippery slope, uh, in conversation because I don't wanna take away from my guest, you know, I'm not here to talk about myself. But I think what sets the show apart is that I want it to be a conversation.
So I gotta bring something to the table.
Michael Zarick: Definitely. I have an extension of Go for, which is also an extension of this extended conversation. I've actually, the thing that's been, and this is actually directly tied to you because you are the reason I am, am getting to this point. Okay. And I hate to dive so deep in the weeds at the very beginning of the podcast, but it's so interesting.
It's what I've been thinking about. So you, [00:13:00] through your growth journey, have sort of found your identity as, uh, a Korean, but also Korean American specifically? Yeah. How would you phrase that? I would say Asian American first. Asian American, first
Patrick Armstrong: Asian American via transracial adoption from Korea. So there's a lot.
Yeah. It's a very loaded way of getting to that point, but I'll, like, I, I, I won't get into that yet.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And you also recently, um, I've mentioned this the other day, but you, one of the big books you've read in the past year is, um, Original Sin Yep. By Dr. Eve L Ewing. Yep. Uh, I have not completed it, but I've slowly, uh, it's a lot gone through it.
It's, it's pretty heavy. Um, but the essence of the book is talking about the American education system and about how, I don't wanna say, let's just say bad, how bad it is.
Patrick Armstrong: Yeah. Um, well, specifically designed to exclude or intentionally erase or misinform black and brown people. Mm-hmm. Or indigenous people specifically.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. And the one thought [00:14:00] I've come, I've come to come out of this and there was a part in there about, uh, whiteness, which is not a topic I've brought up on the podcast because this is not Oh, you're talking to me now. I know, I know. I know. Uh, but whiteness as a concept, not as a skin color, about how it in, in sort of, um, you know, Irish people, Italian people historically were not, quote unquote right, White.
But they have become that over time, Syrian Americans, which is where I'm going with this, at one point, were not considered white, but many of the lighter skinned Syrian Americans are now considered white. Um, so whiteness as a concept, not as a skin color. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm thinking of my mother when I'm talking about this 'cause I, I think she's very high level, understands this.
But, um, just sort of easing into the thought. So my, I don't wanna take up too much time explaining this out loud, but my thought [00:15:00] is, uh, I have always identified as Lebanese American, but I've recently come to understand that my great-grandfather moved here before Lebanon. Existed from Syria. Okay. Uh, so I'm technically Syrian Lebanese, uh, and then I was talking to my aunt about this and she goes, yeah, we just identify as Lebanese because they like, it sounded better.
Like, it's like it is more accepted or something like that. And I was, well because there was no
Patrick Armstrong: history of, uh, Lebanese culture or anything before it was created. Yeah. Syria has already carrying connotation about
Michael Zarick: it, Uhhuh and uh, so I've been thinking very deeply about this, about how, uh, my quote unquote whiteness is not real.
Like I am at least half Syrian and there's another half part of me that I have used to refer to as Mutt, and now I don't, I'm still gonna call it that 'cause I really don't know what the other half of me is. Um, but [00:16:00] through listening to you and Yeah, and reading at least part of Original Sin, just coming to terms with like, what does it mean to be.
Syrian American rather than just like a white dude.
Patrick Armstrong: A hundred percent did that. A hundred percent. So, uh, we're in my, we're in our house, right? We're in my house right now. And a conversation I've had with my wife before who is white is when I first started to do all of this exploration, dig into culture and stuff, like, it was hard.
Like we had to navigate those conversations. I was not doing any of that. And like, this was fundamentally altering and uncovering pieces of me, uh, that were not present in our relationship prior. And so once I had like, kind of found my groove and stuff, we had a conversation once and she's like. And I, 'cause I was talking about how I wanted to, struggling to incorporate Korean culture into, uh, Van's life as a parent because I struggled to incorporate in my own life still.
Um, and she's like, well, I don't have a culture. She's like, white's not a culture. Mm-hmm. Like, what's American culture? [00:17:00] And I was like, well, you do have a culture. It's like, where, what are your, what's your like, uh, your ancestral roots? Like where, what country do you come from? Mm-hmm. Like, that's the culture.
Yeah. Like, we should, we should explore that. Like we should be asking those questions. It's like, you
Michael Zarick: are correct that there is no white culture. Yeah. Because it's a co like, it's literally,
Patrick Armstrong: people talk about race as a social construct could not be more true, especially when it comes to white people. Like when it comes to whiteness, it is a concept because at the end of the day, like.
It's not just, it's not just white people. You come from other places. Yeah. And so you can, like, that's part of your history and your culture. But I talked about at the beginning, America is so general, it feels so general, and that's part of that is America is a melting pot, but it's also like a melting pot that burns so hot, it burns away other things that come into it to just create American, which in reality is white.
Mm-hmm. Is what it would look like. It looks all the same. Yeah. Um, [00:18:00] so we need to turn the burner down, um, so we can not, we don't lose out on all of the stuff that makes people individual as individuals and then as collectives from different places of across the world, um, like incredible and unique, you know, but we burn, we'd be burning that shit away.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. That's very, that's an interesting, uh, framing because I also think about like our current, like political landscape. And how, uh, close-minded it is to this sort of idea. 'cause I remember growing up and that was like the, we said that all the time. America's a melting pot.
Oh yeah. America's a a a country of immigrants just regularly. And we never, I don't think we had the terminology then, at least as younger people, uh, I'm sure older people did, um, to like, talk about what that really meant. And I think we obviously struggled with coming to face with like, oh, letting people hold onto their identities.
Patrick Armstrong: [00:19:00] Well, because I think it was always America's a melting pot, but at the end of the day, you're American. Yeah. Like it's always, but we don't talk about the but part. Yeah. Like we don't, we just always end at that part and it's like, oh, we're made up of all different people or whatever, but we're not talking about what we're losing when we decide to rally around a banner.
Mm-hmm. Which is why, I mean, I identify as Asian American. But only specifically because of the root of the term Asian American, which was born out of wanting to, uh, outta support of the civil rights movements in the sixties. And it was created by college students to gather a bunch of different people who were, had immigrated here or were students here from the different Asian countries.
Not to generalize them all as just Asian, but to be like, look at all of the different people that make up our coalition that have come together in solidarity to support this other group of people. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, over the last, you know, uh, almost a hundred years, it's been bastardized to become general [00:20:00] by constructs like whiteness.
But in reality, the truth of it is, is like it's born out of like resistance and like solidarity and coalition and, Not of generalization mm-hmm. But of specificity. Yeah. Like specifically naming all of the people that make up the coalition and specifically acting in support of, uh, human rights, I'll say.
Yeah. So, so
Michael Zarick: interesting. I love that. How is, like, um, I mean, I know there's a lot of, uh, conflicted thoughts coming out of this for you over the past couple years, but how, like, what are the good things that have come out of this? You have like, oh, there's so many good things,
Patrick Armstrong: so many good things. I know. Tell me.
So the number one good thing is that I live, I navigate the world now as the most whole version of myself. Which I never did. And so I didn't even know, I couldn't even put all those words together in a sentence five years ago. Mm-hmm. Um, not even three years ago, because the whole thing has been a journey to get to a point to be able to live that way.
so that's the number one, that's the best [00:21:00] thing. Uh, number two is that I think it was set me up, uh, a good foundation to enter parenthood. So that's a good thing for it. And then a lot of just tangential stuff, like trying, being open to trying new foods. Like again, when I talk about being in rejection of my Asian identity, like this was like, I don't like it.
Like I am deeply uncomfortable around anything Asian. I don't wanna learn how to use chopsticks. Like I'll go to Panda Express. I'm not going any further. Um, and so like, it was, that's the good, like that's a lot of good that comes from it. Like, and there for me with Korean culture is still stuff that I struggle with, but like cultural stuff, community stuff.
Um, just like exploring my own identity has opened me up to different pla, a different perspective of Indianapolis, like the literal geographic place that I live. And here's the thing, if this would've happened when I lived in San Diego, or when I was in Houston, or when I was in Chicago, who's to say that I come back to Indy [00:22:00] and am not doing this there?
I am really glad that it happened after, well, I'm not, I can't say I, I, I, I, I can see the timing and how it all, like the timing, why timing is important or whatever. I don't know. The timing was just right for it to happen. Yeah. When we came back to Indy. Yeah. So, um, I think that's like, there's, it's hard to pinpoint it the good because there's so much good.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. How does it feel to be, at least by my perception, you can shut this down if you'd like, but like, you're almost like in my mind, like a, a leader in this. Sort of space, the Asian American space in Indianapolis? No. You don't feel that way? No,
Patrick Armstrong: no, no. Not at all. Um, I'm a person who is trying to be, maybe become a leader and I think that, and this probably gonna come out and sound facetious, but I think there are probably people who would say that about me.
But I disagree because one, if you were good to go around to the Asian American organizations in the city, I don't know [00:23:00] that maybe 10% of 'em know who I am. Mm-hmm. So, right. That right there is immediately disqualifies me from leadership. Mm-hmm. Um, I think too, I am, as much as I talk about community engagement and encourage people to engage in their community in whatever way that they can, I have still not engaged as much as I would like to do.
Mm-hmm. Um, within that community, which again, I think, uh, disqualifies me from being considered a leader. Now, have I done things that could be quote unquote seen as leadership? Like in the community? Yeah. I literally just founded a leadership program. Leadership development program. I think that's what I was thinking of full with two, two friends and colleagues who I would consider leaders in the AAPI space.
One is specifically Ephraim from a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. Uh, Ariana as well, but Ephraim from a hundred percent. Um, and I am just coming in and slotting in where I can. So [00:24:00] like I feel more so like a support player right now. And it would be great if at some point I ended up in that position, but I don't not think that I am at the moment.
Yeah, it was very flattering that you said that to I think a lot of, uh, I appreciate
Michael Zarick: it. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. 'cause I think a lot of my, yeah, it's just exposure in a lot of ways. I'm so exposed. A hundred percent exposed to your Instagram. Well, I'm kind of, yeah, I'm very
Patrick Armstrong: active and it would be easy.
And that's the thing, like we're a small population of Indianapolis still, like we're only like 4% still and growing, but like. Because I'm so visible. Like it's easy if you don't know any other Asian people to be like, oh, this guy must be doing a lot in the Asian community, just 'cause I am Asian.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
That's funny. Um, all right, let's pivot. Pivot. I wanna talk to you about being a father. Let's do it. So I actually, when we first, uh, brought up that I would have you on, I talked about having us wear Halloween costumes. We did. Yes. Which we didn't do, [00:25:00] but that's okay. But I talked about it in, in my head. I was like, oh, your kid is old enough to go trick or treating, but he's not.
But I love the idea of joining a new community or a community you didn't have access to as a newer parent. Have you found that since having a child, it has reframed your. Obviously it's reframed your existence, but like the way you interact with the city and people around you and like, how did you sort of tie that into like your quote unquote community?
Patrick Armstrong: That's a great question. Um, so I brought up one of the good things, uh, about this whole thing of this whole journey that I've been on the last five years has been like, it gave me a good foundation to enter parenthood in, uh, with. And I think like, because I had been doing a lot for three and a half, almost [00:26:00] four years prior to becoming a parent, I did, I haven't needed to like radically shift or reframe the way that I think about the city or engage with the city or people like I was.
Already in the process of doing that, uh, especially 'cause I had been doing it with myself. Mm-hmm. But like when Van was born February, 2024, that's when the first episodes of the Year Of The Nap dropped. So really when I first started to enter into, or figure out what my place was here in the city, and so it didn't, it didn't shift it, it was shifting with it.
So like being a parent and being a part of Indianapolis, a, a community member of Indianapolis, um, go hand in hand. Like, I don't think that they've been, they influence each other at this, like, like simultaneously. Mm-hmm. I don't, there was no, I don't think one or the other. Um, I think it was a lot of the work that I had done the three and a [00:27:00] half years prior, uh, on myself, which led me to a point where I wanted to be in Indianapolis anyways, pre-birth, like during pregnancy, but like things were happening that made me think.
We're in Indianapolis. I am, we're in Indianapolis specific for a reason. I am in Indianapolis specifically for a reason, and I don't think that I'm going anywhere. So like you feel like more locked in,
Michael Zarick: in a way.
Patrick Armstrong: Not because of Van, but because like I had experienced some things that were leading me to want to lock in here regardless.
So, and then, but because of Van and because I was, we were getting ready to enter parenthood, um, that like, and, and so, okay. So I guess a little bit of, of influence because, and, but I was already thinking this and doing this with Asian American community. I want to build a community that I did not have and also that I did not, was not building when I lived in Indianapolis prior.
So, [00:28:00] um, yeah, I think like not a lot of. Significant influence, but maybe I'm not thinking about it deep enough. Maybe there's more there, but Or your kid's not old enough to even like, pull you in any type of direction you're yanking him. I mean, no, but that, I mean, true. Like, I don't know what his specific interests are beyond trucks and Spider-Man sometimes and Elmo.
So, but like, yeah, I guess it is more influenced by my own lived experience, what I lacked. Mm-hmm. And I don't want him to lack in that way. Uh, but where I worry sometimes is, like, I mentioned it earlier, but I struggle to connect with like, Korean stuff, and that includes community still, uh, and like, especially locally.
Um, so, and I don't want him to miss out on that, but I'm still missing out on it myself. So I gotta figure like, working to figure that out. And I realize it's different for everybody and, and whatnot, but, um, like that's, [00:29:00] that's on me to figure out for us. So.
Michael Zarick: Hmm.
Patrick Armstrong: I mean, it's an opportunity to be like, learn alongside.
That's been the advice I've been given a lot in the last couple weeks. But at the same time, I don't know, like I give a lot of good advice I think, but I don't follow it that often.
Michael Zarick: So I think a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah. I can tell people to go on a walk and drink water all I can, but do I drink, go on, walk and drink water?
Probably not. I'll drink water right now. You go on walks? I do walk a lot. Yeah. I do not walk or bus here. That's my, I was gonna ask if you were gonna drive. I did. I was like, I can
Patrick Armstrong: come pick you up from the bus stop. It's not too far, but
Michael Zarick: I was gonna bus here. Um, but then I got caught up talking to somebody, a business owner, in Broad Ripple just for like a couple hours actually.
Classic, classic. Michael Z I should stop talking to people, get outta their hair. Um,
I so. You're a podcaster. Actually, I, you [00:30:00] always make fun of me when I do. Actually, your transitions are some of my favorites. Uh, I actually don't want to, I wanna talk about that later. I wanna talk about, now I wanna talk about Indianapolis hip hop.
Patrick Armstrong: Okay.
Michael Zarick: Because I think this is a personal passion of yours.
Patrick Armstrong: Um, no. Yeah. I mean, I am passionate about it as I'm, I'm a fan for
Michael Zarick: sure. Mm.
Patrick Armstrong: I It's funny
Michael Zarick: that you pointed this out for yourself and I was gonna bring it up, which is there is this theme on your podcast advice if you Oh, yeah, yeah. If you look over the course of it, it's like you're always interacting with people or artists in Indianapolis who are involved with rapper hip hop.
Yeah. Yes. Why do you think that is?
Patrick Armstrong: So, I think a hundred percent, you are not wrong to say that. Uh. It. I am passionate about it. I don't want that, eh, to be mistaken as like, I don't care about it.
Michael Zarick: Wait, we gotta tell the people you have directly interviewed Audrey Nuna, who is a huge
Patrick Armstrong: person. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But [00:31:00] yeah, that's not, has nothing to do with Indianapolis. It kind of does, but, um, kind of does. But so, okay. So it, part of it is definitely, like I was here and I did hip hop for a long, I did rap for a long time. Like, and see the fact that I can't even decide whether to call it hip hop or rap shows how performative I think that I was in it the whole time, which is one of the reasons I stopped doing it was because I felt like I was almost in a way disrespecting the culture of hip.
Like not even hip hop, but Black culture in general. Hmm. And so like, I was like, I don't know. Yeah. I just felt like I wasn't really in it for the right reasons. And when I was here doing it, that was definitely the case. Even though I loved doing it. I loved to write, I thought I listened to a lot of hip hop.
Uh, consumed a lot. Um, but I was, so, especially with my destabilized identity, like scared of stepping out beyond, like those very tiny connections that I was able to make, which I am very grateful [00:32:00] for. 'cause they were awesome people. Um, what really brought me back into it was I've been, I was playing basketball in Carmel for a while and there was a guy that I was, had would run with on Saturday mornings every once in a while.
And one day I was like scrolling through Instagram and I heard his voice come up on a clip and I was like, I, I'm like, is that Skypp? And so I'm listening to him talk and he's talking about mental health and I was like, oh, that's cool. I'm like, lemme look into this guy a little bit more. And I'm like, oh shit.
I'm like, this dude's like singing and, and rapping and stuff. I'm like, who is this guy? Because I've not only know him as a basketball player and so. Is someone you had regularly been doing that? Yeah. For like a year. Yeah. That's so cool. And so I tapped in with his content and his music, and then the next time I saw him on the court, I was just like, Hey dude.
I'm like, did not know you were like that. I'm like, well, it's awesome. I was like, I'm actually getting ready to, I, I have a podcast that I'm trying to talk to Indianapolis people. I'm like, would you be interested in having that conversation? He said, [00:33:00] yeah. So had him come through. I was recording at a studio over by Lucas Oil and we had a great conversation and about halfway through the conversation, I looked over at the recorder.
I'm like, I dunno if that's fucking recording. And, um, didn't stop, didn't say anything. Finished the conversation. We leave realize it didn't record. Freaked out. Ha. It was a fantastic conversation too, like an hour and a half. Fantastic conversation. And I was like, I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta ask him to do it again.
I'm like, I don't. I'm like, I don't want to, but I gotta ask him. So I had him come back. Uh, and he said Yes, and we did it here in, in my house. And in this conversation he went a step further in talking about, like, he named a lot more names. I thought from, from people locally that he, 'cause I asked him like, who were people that we should be knowing about or like listening to?
And he [00:34:00] named Kory, 4200Kory, he named Double A, he named Baby Ebony. Um, and I was like, I don't even know who none of these people are. And I started listening to some of these other folks, particularly Double A, 'cause he was featured on a song, on an album that he told me to listen to. King of Indiana. And I was like, bro, I was so surprised at how the quality of the music that I was just like, I was, honestly, I was shocked and I was like.
Has this been here like this whole time and it just became a personal, so this is, I've shared this on the show many times, but when I first started to do this, uh, first started to, or decided that I was gonna do Indianapolis stuff, I opened up Google Sheets and made like a list of people that I wanted to talk to.
None of the hip hop people were on the list until I talked to Skypp. And then you just, I just started like adding names and I was like, I [00:35:00] gotta talk to these people. And I just got really lucky that the conversation that I had with Skypp was went so well and that he came back to have another one because that conversation birthed so much of what, of the conversations that we would end up having on the show.
And in such a way. Now I haven't even thought about this, but like if I didn't have that conversation with Skypp, I might not be doing the live shows right now mm-hmm. That we're currently doing. And that is going to be the main format of the show in 2026. Because it was the Treese, the conversation I had with Jane Sun Kim from Treese.
That really solidified for me that tho that was the way I could do the show. That conversation doesn't happen if I don't have that conversation with Skypp, who really kind of opened my eyes to the community here. So, long-winded answer. That's why I'm passionate because like it's moments in my life that I can like really look at and, and [00:36:00] reflect on and, and point out as like Pivotal.
But it's only in hindsight that I can do so. But like if you would've asked me that question a year ago, I don't know what my answer really would've been other than like there's a lot of really cool people that I didn't know. Mm-hmm. But I'm passionate about it because that community has been so supportive of me and also like doesn't have, like, I don't connect with any of them if I don't, if he doesn't put me on first.
Michael Zarick: Do you think they're supportive of you? I don't mean this in a self-serving way, but like, because you're hyping them up. Like, it's like maybe it's like, bro, this guy wants to be here, he wants to talk about us.
Patrick Armstrong: Well, a hundred percent. Uh, part of it is definitely like fandom So I've had, I had Jake Moran on the show who handle this, jakewiththeshot.
Mm-hmm. Uh, best known for doing black and white photography in the hip hop community. And something that he said on the show that we talked about was like, as consumers, we like, kind of stopped consuming. Like we don't just like listen to an album front to back, like we do the playlist [00:37:00] thing. Like we're in the streaming now and like, we're not really fans because like, because we're fans of the music, we're fans because we're fans of the moment and we want to capture it on the 'gram.
And, you know, we go to shows and like to, to take pictures, but not to like vibe out. Um, and because we're supporting the art. And that really stuck with me, uh, uh, because again, thinking about my own hip hop career, like, I think I was so performative. I was doing it at such a, like a performative level in my mind and from my perspective that like, I don't want to do that.
And when it comes to being invested in the community, like you gotta show up and like be a fan. Like you gotta be a fan of the place that you are. Uh, if you want to like enact change and make impact and do stuff in there and like be considered a leader or legitimate. Mm-hmm. Um, and so why the fuck did I just bring that up?
Um, because I asked if they were supporting you because you supporting them basically. It's reciprocal in a way. Exactly. And so like, that's how I wanna treat every guest is like, I'm one, I'm a fan of what you've done. [00:38:00] Like if I invite you on the show. And you've written a book, you can damn well be sure that I've read that book.
Like if I've not read the whole thing, I've read most of it and I've done my, I've done my homework. And because I care about wanting to have a good conversation, the whole point of the show is not for me to yap about myself. It's because I'm having you on to talk about the thing that you wanna talk about.
And I've hopefully crafted a good conversation for us to do so. Um, you're the star.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Patrick Armstrong: Like I'm the star right now 'cause this is your show. So I'm the star. Look at me. Um, but so, and I brought, okay, so I say all that because I was at BUTTER this past year and I was having a conversation with somebody on the bus.
Was up on the bus, not on the bus, uh, separate. This was that night. Uh, at the festivities, I came back to watch Baby Ebony perform. And this was post that, uh, somebody from, uh, producer, rapper, engineer in the city came up, uh, to me and the person I was talking to and we were chatting and he goes, and he told me, he goes.
[00:39:00] He's like, man, if I, if somebody in the community ever has something they wanna promote or they need to talk about something that they want to get out, he's like, I recommend your show first. And I was like, bro, huge, huge compliment. And like, I think I, the reason I think that somebody can say something like that is because I am truly invested in not just the conversation, but the person I'm having the conversation with.
And that requires a level of fandom, I think, that you find in like, like nerdom or pop culture a little bit. And I mean, I'm down to have a divisive conversation. I'm also down to learn to become a better journalist and be better at pushing back on stuff that maybe I don't agree with or maybe that needs push back on.
Yeah. Um, like I can definitely be better about that. But the show is also like, if I'm having you on the show, it's because I know that you're not a terrible person and you're probably not gonna say something. Super wild that I need to [00:40:00] push back on. Like I'm not, I, the platform is not meant to be, uh, combative in that way.
Like I'm down to have those kinds of conversations and I do frequently with people off offline. But, um, like part of the point of the show is because I like what you're doing in the city and I'm not here to tear it apart. I'm here because I've looked into it and looked into what you're doing and I've got some questions and I'd love to have a conversation about it.
Yeah. So
Michael Zarick: to
Patrick Armstrong: that point,
Michael Zarick: what, uh, so I recently listened to, um, Murdock's episode. We talked about that actually. And he was like so enamored with your questions. He was like, he was like, these are some good ass questions. He's like, most podcasts suck. He essentially said that he didn't say it in such harsh terms, but he would never speak so harshly about people, but.
Like what? My favorite part? This is the best part of the week for me. [00:41:00] I like, I maybe do more than one a week sometimes, but, oh, recording the podcast. Yeah. Recording the podcast. For sure. For sure. Um, and my favorite thing in the world is sitting down and talking with someone. And to your point about, um, I apologize, what's the hip hop artist who sort of kicked it off?
Uh, Skypp. Skypp. Um, to your point about Skypp talking about mental health outside of the Yeah. The work he does. Like, my favorite part of a guest is like peeling back and finding out more than, oh, this is just the guy I play basketball with. Yeah. He does music. He talks about mental health. He's a whole ass person.
Like I love that. What is the part of podcasting that, uh, you enjoy the most?
Patrick Armstrong: Uh, it's definitely, I think it, that's probably up there for sure. I, I think it's the ability to be able to sit across from somebody and have them share. Anything. Mm-hmm. You know, um, so I think, here's the [00:42:00] thing, podcasting is a very wide genre, so I think there's a lot of different things that could be podcasting, the kind of podcasting that I do.
Um, I really love that because of that particular reason, and again, this started with the Janchi show, and one being able to have a platform where I could talk and share my own story, but really, like, what really made it like worth doing was watching people in real time in our conversations, like have a realization about something in their own life.
Mm-hmm. And it was simply because they had the opportunity to sit and talk about it. And so that's my favorite part about the kind of podcasting that I do, is the opportunity to be in conversation and by extension community. Someone who can experience something like that because I know what it's like to never have that experience and to finally have those experiences.
And so I don't ever wanna be [00:43:00] the gatekeeper. And so that's why the show kind of form is formatted the way that it is. Um, and like, who will I have on who I have on? And we talk about what we talk about is because it's an avenue, it's a vehicle for folks to share what they wanna share instead of me having like an agenda to the conversation.
Yeah. Other than like, it's a con, I wanna have a conversation with you.
Michael Zarick: Definitely. Yeah. I love hearing that. It's fun. It's fun to talk to you because like you, you and I do the same thing as competitors. We're like doing the same thing. Yeah. But like in a different, in our own personal way. It's fun.
Patrick Armstrong: Well, so the other thing I love about podcasting stuff like this, and so like.
Maybe talked about ad nauseum, but, uh, my favorite podcast is a show called Comedy Bang Bang. It's in the 16th year. It's an improv comedy podcast hosted by Scott Ackerman, himself. Not really a, like a noted comedian, but comedy writer, uh, and [00:44:00] producer and director. Uh, did a lot of the between two firm stuff was Zach Alki.
Um, that show, like that was the first podcast I really ever listened to. And at first I didn't kind of understand it, but then I heard a skit called the ibrain, if you ever Are interested in listening to something unhinged like that was just so hilarious that, I don't know, something about it just made me stick with the show.
And it was just like when I realized the show is literally about nothing other than a person hosting people doing characters talking about. Nothing that is a pure app show. Yeah. But it was like, I, I just love it. And like every week it makes me fucking laugh so hard. But I'm like, that's the kind of conversation that I like to have too.
And I think especially like the time that we're in, I'm not saying like, you, we should be laughing. Nobody should be laughing. [00:45:00] Like, this shit's not funny. Um, and at the same time, like we need avenues for laughter and for just the free expression of fucking nothing. To just be like, and it's just like, have fun with each other.
Here's the thing, like if they never release that it would still be fucking funny and fun as hell. Like it's probably fun for them.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Patrick Armstrong: I mean, if it's not fun for them, I don't know why they've been, they're still doing it. I'll say
Michael Zarick: 16 years in. I listened to, uh, I started, I didn't finish it. I started, well, it was like, why is that so funny?
Funny. I was, I was gonna finish it, but I didn't have enough time. That's so funny. It was earlier today. It was earlier today. Um, oh, I totally forgot. I had Renee's Do you want to No, it's all good.
Patrick Armstrong: I'm good. I'm, we're we're talking mode. I will eat one
Michael Zarick: after we're done though. Um, I was walking to Rene's and I started listening to an episode, um, and the joke that, it wasn't even a joke, it was just an a totally just like said it.
Yeah. [00:46:00] Out, like it was definitely an unfiltered moment. His guest he had on, I don't remember the guy's name, but he's like a pretty, he's like a probably B or C list actor. Sure. Um, but I knew who it was. Um. And they were talking about like when he was younger and he goes, yeah, I was around 11 years old at that time.
And the host goes, yeah. He goes, oh, so not yet barely legal. And I was like, I was like, this is the, yeah, like that's not something you just like say in a normal conversation, but like right when your Comedy Bang Bang podcast like that was exactly where you're not taking
Patrick Armstrong: yourself too seriously. Like I said, all of that and that I could have just said, where you don't take yourself too seriously, like you gotta have moments and opportunities to do that.
And I think I like, that's why I really like that show because it gives me an hour and a half to just be, just be laughing and just be in the moment of funny and it doesn't negate or take away or erase any of the fucking terrible shit that's happening right now or any of the work that is required of me to do.
Um, it's [00:47:00] just exists in the same space and it gives me this other place that I can stand, uh, while this other stuff's going on, um, for a moment. Yeah. So.
Michael Zarick: Well, for the sake of time, because I feel like you and I could talk forever, but I'm gonna transition. How long are your episodes? An hour. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
You're right. An hour. An hour. But I'm like, we made an, we can go over. Oh, we are good at talking. I have to make meatloaf at some point. That's make meatloaf. That's good. Um, so, uh, I do have some canned questions. Always. You're a listener, so you know that, uh, but I have a, I have a sponsor. Shout out to City Rising.
City Rising. Mark Latta. Uh, city Rising is a, actually I have a, you have it written down, I have it written down. City Rising is a social impact studio that is seeking to help organizations and leaders create practices that cultivate communities. Uh, yeah, like it, go check out cityrising.org if you are a dude.
Or anybody, not just a dude. [00:48:00] What am I saying? Why is Mark giving me money? Uh, go to cityrising.org. Check it out. I think that, uh, if you're interested in affecting change in the community around you, it's a a great avenue for doing so. Uh, but Mark has sponsored the question, what is a third space to you?
Do you know what a third space is?
Patrick Armstrong: I do know what a third space is. Yeah. Um, I knew you were gonna ask me this question. I did not prepare any third spaces. That's okay. Um, so I also like to
Michael Zarick: think of it, uh, the question. This is my own personal interpretation as sort of like more like what is a, what is, what is a third space, not like what is my third space?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Patrick Armstrong: Okay. Well, it's, I mean, that's how you ask the question. You frame it as what is a third space to you? And I was thinking of what is a specific third space that you love in Indianapolis, but you didn't say any of those words except for like two of 'em. So I am a classic over complicator and I'm really working on right now making things simple.
Um, a third space to me. Is okay. Yeah. So [00:49:00] this is, sorry. I'm, see, I was trying to make it like general so it to please and encompass everyone. A third space to me is a place where people can actually, no, I'm changing it because that's the world that I wanna build. Uh, a third space. To me, it can be that it can be a visionary.
So the world I wanna build is a place where people could just be like, you're not afraid to go outside for any reason. If you're trans, no one's gonna attack you for being trans or, uh, exclude you from their sports because you're trans. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Um, just that like, and you're not like, we don't live in self-loathing or shame because of societal influences that are telling us that this is the way that you have to feel.
Um, that's the world that I wanna live in. A third space. To me, I was gonna say that's a third space because it's a place where you can go and do that and that's great. But that sounds like it's like. Lower on the priority list, and I want it to be the main priority. I want that to be the first space that we're in.
Um, but I get what you're saying, like in terms of the [00:50:00] definition of a third space, um, a place where people to be able to just honestly fuck it. I'm going with that definition. A place where people can gather and just be in a, in a space with each other and be safe enough to be, and also brave enough to be, if they need to be Mm.
To brave enough to speak whatever they need to speak. So I think that's a third. I think that's what a third space is to me right now. And I'm looking for ways to elevate that to first place status.
Michael Zarick: Mm. They're not ranked.
Patrick Armstrong: I know. I, but I want that to be the main foundation for you. I understand what you're saying.
And like our third pl, our third spaces and stuff to be built from that, our corporate spaces to be built from that. So. Absolutely. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Thank you for sharing.
Patrick Armstrong: Sorry, that was a really difficult answer for me. Uh, that's okay. I apologize.
Michael Zarick: Next question. Very related. What is a third? I love this question.
It's so fun. What is a third space that no longer exists that you miss Oh, for yourself. [00:51:00] And that could, you can think of it as no longer exists as you also never don't visit anymore. But it's a little introspective.
Patrick Armstrong: Hmm. That is a little introspective. A third place that doesn't exist anymore. Third space.
Third space. Third place. Third space. Third space. That doesn't exist anymore. Um, so I guess if I was actually gonna pick one, it would probably be my grandparents' house in Rensselaer. Mm-hmm. Uh, I don't consider Rensselaer to be the third space because I don't really think I was safe. There truly ever.
Mm-hmm. Um, I just wanna say
Michael Zarick: it when, uh, maybe I'm telling you, I always, I have to mention my wife every episode when Anna found out, when Anna, so we went to your, your live podcast recording Ruba, and you go, I'm from Rensselaer, Indiana. Anna goes, oof.
Patrick Armstrong: I mean, that's the most common response I get when I say that's where I'm from.
[00:52:00] Most people get it like they know. Like if you, from Indiana, you know? Yeah. It's a sundown town. So like, it's like on the list. So Arian list, uh, the Klan came to there when I was there. So like, that's how, that's, that's so that's, um, that's Indiana. Yeah. But my grandma's house, I felt like that was, if I was to, excuse me, go by my own definition.
If I was to go by my own definition of what a third space is, uh. Her house was that, um, that was the refuge for me. Whether I was mowing the yard, whether I was just hanging out or whether I was helping around doing something holiday, whatever the case was. Like, I felt like that was a place where I could just exist as me, even though at that time I'm getting emotional.
Even though at that time I was not living as my most whole self. Mm-hmm. Um, that was the place that I could just be a person. So yeah. [00:53:00] Shout out to Charlotte and Ted.
Michael Zarick: Are they still around? No. Okay. Rest in peace. Yep. Charlotte and Ted Rensselaer. You're allowed to get emotional. I know. I visited my grandma this weekend.
Nice. Yeah. You did say. Yeah, shout out to, uh, Mary Lou. She's doing okay for, for a lady who has cancer in her body, she is kicking.
Patrick Armstrong: Shout out to Mary Lou. I will say, when I lived in San Diego, I planned on being there for a while, and about a year in, I, my grandma got really sick, Uh, we were very, very close.
So I ended up making the decision to move back to Indiana so I could be around and she ended up living for like eight more years. You're like totally fine. shakes fist. Yeah, she was totally fine. And I was just like, all right, but you know, I had to come back. I, I was meant to come back, so, yeah. Did you meet your wife here?
Uh. Met her in West Lafayette. We had friends. She went to IUPUI went to Purdue and we just had similar friend groups, [00:54:00] but did not start dating until Indianapolis. So like when you came back from San Diego? Uh, when I came back from Houston. Technically or before? No, after for sure. For sure. After like we were like in the will day, won't day for a long time.
So it goes, I'm not good at, I'm not good at dating.
Michael Zarick: Shout out to Bo Turner. I'm gonna give Bo Turner a shout out. No, shout out. No one's good at dating. Go to FIND Indianapolis. Go to a speed dating event. If I were single right now, I would go. You don't even have to.
Patrick Armstrong: She got Find Fun Indy. You don't even have to be single or any of that.
Just go find a fun event and you can find new friends and community. That's free. She's not a sponsor. Yeah, not a sponsor. Edit that out. Cut that out. I saw her the other day. I got that cough going on. Are you okay? I am okay. Don't get me sick. No, I was just crying.
Michael Zarick: Do you cough when you cry?
Patrick Armstrong: I don't think so.
Uh, that would be a funny tick.
Michael Zarick: I don't know if you knew this, but I cry. I just cough. Uncontrolled. I don't know if you knew this, but, uh, Mirror Indy, which I know you listened to Yeah. Was the most recent episode, and they have some questions [00:55:00] for you. Yes.
Patrick Armstrong: Amazing. Uh, I was gonna ask you if they were gonna be my questions.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So the first question
Patrick Armstrong: is from
Michael Zarick: Ebony Chappel,
Patrick Armstrong: how fitting that we talked about this. Oh, wait, no, not Ebony Chappel. You're smart the way you set up the conversation. I get it now. How fitting, sorry, I'm just knowing. I'm just knowing this is not
Michael Zarick: intentional.
Patrick Armstrong: I'm just knowing what the questions they asked on the thing were.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. But this isn't intentional. You're not supposed to necessarily,
Patrick Armstrong: I know you can edit that out. Uh, this is actually from Arianna bd. You have so much editing editing you have on this episode. I
Michael Zarick: don't mean it's fun to have.
Patrick Armstrong: This is your Paton. This is the Patreon one. Paywall one. You gotta put, you put the, the full one behind the paywall.
Michael Zarick: I, I'm making this statement declarative right this moment. Uh, this is something I thought of before I ever released an episode. I will never put an episode behind a paywall. Okay. I like that. I, I, I don't know. I have feelings.
Patrick Armstrong: I mean, it's like, it's nice to conversations. It's a good way to drive revenue, but I'm not interested.
Well, you're not like an entertainment podcast. Really. It is entertainment. But your, your conversations can impact people, uh, at a wide variety of [00:56:00] ways. Mm-hmm. So they need to be accessible. 'cause they're not, then they can't have that impact. So, yeah. I get
Michael Zarick: it. Yeah. Question from Arianna Beedie. Let's do it.
Sorry. And I'm so glad I'm asking you because you will have an answer and I know you're gonna have multiple. What, uh, who should I be listening to? That's a local artist or musician.
Patrick Armstrong: All right. So I did have, I have literal one question I was prepared for and I got to do it 'cause this is my guy. Uh, my homie 4200Kory Far East side, uh, post road.
He just dropped an album called Cobra Son. Um, not of the, yeah, it's been out for a couple months, but he's got a single out well versed. I saw that they just did numbers over a million views and stuff. For real? For that song. Yeah. Wait, that's crazy. Over a hundred k on the album itself. Uh, in that first month, like he's, he's been killing it.
Like, he's so talented. Amazing. Like when we're talking about, uh, like when I was discovering the music and being like shocked, like this is one of the guys that shocked me. 'cause I'm like, this is somebody that you [00:57:00] would hear. Somewhere else that you would not think of that would, or if you were to like, to be like, here, this person randomly on the street in New York, and you'd be like, oh, that's maybe somebody, what, what part of the city is he from?
Michael Zarick: Hey, real quick. Michael Jackson is from Gary, Indiana. A hundred percent people can come from anywhere.
Patrick Armstrong: Uh, that's what I'm saying though. Yeah. But like, we have a stigma and stereotype about us is that we, there's no creative people happening here. Mm-hmm. Or like creating here. Mm-hmm. Um, a hundred percent.
Kory, you gotta be tapped in with that dude, because he's always gonna be Naptown forever. But bro, he might be, he's got, he's got a, the runway ahead of him. Like he should, he needs to be getting what,
Michael Zarick: what, uh, what city do you feel like he gives off energy from? Or do you think it's He's a Naptown guy.
Naptown? A hundred
Patrick Armstrong: percent. Um, I said New York, just because I feel like there are a lot of different areas of New York that people could point to as being like, oh, you're from the Bronx, or you're from Harlem, or you're from Brooklyn. Yeah. Uh. [00:58:00] And so like, but like I don't know that I would place him anywhere.
And this is something, so the first time I ever asked the question, what's the Naptown or what's the Indianapolis sound like? What's the Naptown sound? That was to Skypp. And he like, the thing was, is like there really wasn't one because we're, it's like it encompasses all kinds of music and all genres and you're gonna get a little bit of the south, a little bit of east coast, a little bit of that North Midwest, like Chicago influence, some West Coast influence.
Like you're gonna see it all happening here. Mm-hmm. And I think he is embodies that, but he, if he were, if I were to label anybody as that sound him for sure. Um, my guys distinct and Baby Ebony are dropping new music sometime soon. Um, so you gotta be listening to 'em. Baby Ebony is on the comeback right now.
I had no idea who he was before I talked to Skypp. Uh, now that's definitely one of my favorite artists. Uh, so I [00:59:00] heard somebody say like, he's the definition of like a pop star in Indianapolis. Like if somebody could go out and like do it, like he's got that sound the way he like moves and navigates the stage and performs like, like how is this, how is he from here?
Like, it doesn't make any sense. So like, I was thinking
Michael Zarick: about this in the context of, so you're familiar with K-pop demon hunters? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Many people who are listening may also be, but they recently performed, uh, on Jimmy Fallon. Fallon. Yep. Uh, and I text, I watched that and I texted Anna immediately after, and I said, I wonder how many people with this level of talent go completely undiscovered.
And I think of people like who you're talking about for sure. It's just like these, these people who are making. The, not that K-pop demon hunters is the peak of art artistry, but like such amazing music coming out of the people here that it's like, that feels like it should be the K-Pop demon little.
Patrick Armstrong: Well, do you, you know, do you know the story of EJAE, [01:00:00] like the main person from her, like the lead of that group? She's
Michael Zarick: like in a bunch of other K-pop groups.
Patrick Armstrong: Well, so like, she went through like the K-pop machine and like came out and like wasn't gonna be a star or anything, and like went through a whole bunch of stuff.
Like, I don't know, I'm not intimately familiar with the story, but I know of what I know of it and like where she is now, this like meteoric rise with K-pop demon hunters, like, didn't seem to be in the purview. And like if I, I love the story and like the, the performance of Golden on Fallon like made a lot of people emotional.
Like it made me emotional because like, it's also indicative not just of like. Asian pop culture, Korean pop culture, whatever, like being put on the mainstream or whatever is, is indicative of like what it looks like, the universal story of struggle and like fighting to, to get to where you want to go and maybe never getting there.
And then by fucking chance, like something happens, you get the [01:01:00] opportunity and you take it and you run with it. And it happens. Like I think her story is indicative of is like, it could be a good representation of what it means to come up in Indianapolis because I think like at the end of the day you are like, the story of Indy is the, is the people that are here that make up the city.
And if you look at, if you're looking for themes and through lines, one of the themes that you're gonna find is that people be putting in the work, they're passionate about what they do, and they've faced a not insignificant amount of barriers to try and get there. Not everybody gets there. But the people that do get there, like Kory.
When you go to a fucking Kory show or you go to a TGI free show or distinct show, or like you go to any of these people's shows, dead Silence Maxi, like he just drop, he's about to drop an album. Um, like people show up for them. And I think that's the biggest thing that I think, you didn't ask me this question, but like the biggest misconception I think that a lot of people have is about, about Indy is like we don't really [01:02:00] support each other and like we actually do.
It's just we are supporting people who we see have been doing that same thing as us. Like struggling to get where they are. Yeah. Fighting to get where they are. They are,
Michael Zarick: you're supporting people with bodies, not Yeah,
Patrick Armstrong: not money. Well, and they're talking about their experience doing it and are not saying this is representative of everybody's story, but like, I'm not here to represent everyone, but if I need like that kind of mentality is why we.
Put on for people in that way because like, I don't wanna say it's a humbleness, but there's like a, um, respect for what it means to come through the ranks of Indy, I think creative scene in whatever kind of thing that you do. And I think people are gonna rally around the ones who have really been doing it, doing it authentically.
Which I think why I do the show the way that I do it is because, and [01:03:00] why I've been really, really, really hesitant to change much because I've built like kind of a product now that people expect a certain level of consistency or quality or whatever the conversation might be. And the only way that I can maintain something like that, build upon something like that, achieve a point where I can consider myself personally to be maybe a leader.
Mm-hmm. Is if I keep showing up in that way, keep showing up authentically, keep showing up and supporting community so people can eventually rally around that maybe. And that would be like, that's the ultimate goal is can I continue to show up in places and su and, and support in the way that I can support with the platforms and whatever that I have and do it.
Um,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Perfect. I have one more question and then actually two more questions. You know what the last question is? Uh, this is from Ebony Chappel Feed Someone your favorite meal in town. [01:04:00] Where do you go? Oh fuck, I forgot this was the question.
Patrick Armstrong: Um, damn, there's some good stuff out here. I'm so basic. Uh, what am I gonna choose?
Like, let's go to Chipotle. What am I gonna choose? What am I gonna choose? No, but I'm like, sorry, before this I just had a burger over at Clancy's. Like that's how basic I'm, that's like one of my, that's one of my guilty pleasures is Burger from Clancy's. Uh, because I think they got really good pleasure.
What is the most
Michael Zarick: like, okay,
Patrick Armstrong: uh,
Michael Zarick: we can go over an hour. It doesn't, we're already over an hour, but, um, when you, have you ever had a meal? That like you just feel deeply satisfied, you've want to cry a little bit and you like, just feel an overwhelming sense of joy.
Patrick Armstrong: Yes. The very first meal that, uh, Emily and I ever ate at Vita, uh, over on New York.
Mm. That we, I had that, the exact feeling, uh, I wanted to kind of cry a little bit. I was very like, oh my God, like this is amazing. Uh, that, and then that has [01:05:00] become like one of our biannual places that we like to go for anniversary. Usually that's like the place that we like to go to. But like, I can't even tell you what we ate then.
But I know one of the meals was fish. And I know that Emily does not eat fish and she ate the fish and she liked it, like, and liked it. So like it wa but I just remember it being so immaculate. Like it was just like, I didn't realize that that kind of level of food. It could exist in Indianapolis. Mm-hmm.
Like, that was the eyeopener for me.
Michael Zarick: Uh, I wanna give a shout out to Chef Tyler at, uh, tinker Street. Shout out Chef Tyler. They've been catering your live events. Yeah. And I've gone to a couple, the most recent one with Ruba, they made butter her. He made butter chicken. Yep. And I wanted that. I I, I, you didn't notice 'cause you were in the talking stuff, but I stood up in the middle of your show and walked over to him and gave him a hug.
I said, this is like this. That's hilarious. Is so good. Yeah.
Patrick Armstrong: They, they make some fire food. Um, I gotta answer this question about the meal. Um, [01:06:00]
Michael Zarick: is it not Vita,
Patrick Armstrong: but I don't know what, 'cause their, their menu rotates. Mm-hmm. So I don't know what is on the menu. We haven't been there this year. So you're thinking
Michael Zarick: this has to be a static answer?
Patrick Armstrong: Does it just have to be any food?
Michael Zarick: Well, we'll answer how you like. I'm very open-ended.
Patrick Armstrong: Okay. So.
So I go to, I don't go here very often, but one of my favorite breakfast places, 'cause breakfast is my favorite meal is, or my favorite type of food is Keystone Diner on Keystone. Uh, I've, this is not on my radar at all. It's between, I think it's between, uh, 52nd and like 56th, uh, stoplights before the Meyer, um, across the bp.
I, I, I'm pretty sure, um, they strongly recommend you pay in cash because they do [01:07:00] not wanna pay the credit card fee. Mm-hmm. Which I really enjoy. Mm-hmm. Um, it's also like I grew up on small town diner breakfast. Mm-hmm. I need my hash browns crispy and fri like fried. Essentially I need fried, uh, I need a good over medium egg.
Um, and I need some form of meat. It can be patties, it can be lynx, probably bacon and wheat toast, black coffee as well. Um, they got it going on over there. Whenever I get a chance to go over there, they make the hash browns exactly the way I like 'em, which is pretty hard to do, I think. Uh, 'cause I am particular.
Um, but I think that is a place and it's always popping. There's a, the very diverse crowd of people in there always popping. So Keystone Diner for sure, for breakfast. That's awesome. Um, you, oh no, I was talking to somebody else about Bodie, but I got, shout out Bodhi, me Bodhi. Yeah, that's the,
Michael Zarick: that's like one of the only nice restaurants I've been to so far.
Patrick Armstrong: Yeah, Bodhi for sure. Super fire. Oh God. Uh, any of [01:08:00] the food there is so good. Uh, man. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna go Keystone Diner just as the place, I don't know what you like for breakfast, but if you like a standard breakfast meal, hit up Keystone Diner.
Michael Zarick: Is that like a good hangover place too? You like walk in? Oh, oh yeah.
You can do, you can feel the most dreadful because I feel like something about breakfast places is like, so healing.
Patrick Armstrong: I'm gonna, I'm gonna say some famous last words, but I have not been hung over in a long time. Yeah, me either. Uh, I don't drink that often. Person drank a lot, uh, for a while. I has been very nice to not have experienced that experience.
Michael Zarick: There's a, there's like a, I don't mean to stereotype, isn't there like a gene among like Asians where they can't get. hungover or drunk?
Patrick Armstrong: Uh, I don't think, no. So there's like, Asians have like a, I think they have allergy to alcohol. So there's this thing called like the Asian glow. Yes. And your skin, like spreadsheets gets red and, uh, that's like an allergy to alcohol.
So, um, I don't know. I don't think I've heard the,
Michael Zarick: maybe, I don't know. I'm making the shit up. I
Patrick Armstrong: never had the Asian glow and like, I [01:09:00] started drinking pretty early in my high school career, Rensselaer. And I never had that. I would get sick more than my friends because I think I didn't know how to drink beer correctly.
But other than that, like I've always, I could always just drink whatever and I never got red. But if a hundred percent percent is a real thing, I know many people, many friends who have the glow, so.
Michael Zarick: Mm. Keystone Diner. Keystone
Patrick Armstrong: Diner. I'll check it out. Free fire. I have
Michael Zarick: a big old list of restaurants, so I'll, if I'm ever in the mood for breakfast.
Uh, last question, then we'll round it out. What question would you like to ask? The next Third Space Indy guest?
Patrick Armstrong: I want to ask the next person, do you know who it is? I'm not gonna tell you. Even if I could rip it up. I know, I know. I feel like somebody has asked you that before. Yeah, I And you said that exact same thing.
Well, there
Michael Zarick: was a, um, I, I've determined that I can't [01:10:00] one, 'cause I think it makes a better interaction. Sure. But also for any reason I can't have that person be the next guest, then it, it betters the flow. That makes sense. Um,
Patrick Armstrong: are you looking for something specific when you ask people this question? No. Genuinely.
Michael Zarick: Uh, there. I love just the most random stuff.
Patrick Armstrong: Alright, great. Uh, ask them. Damn. See now I can get over complicated. Like
Michael Zarick: Kate Grimm. Let me, let me go back. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like, what is a random question? Kate Grimm asked the question of the next.
Who would win in a fight? The skeleton at a hundred acres or the, like the circle monument. Well, I guess my question
Patrick Armstrong: kinda like, does it have to be Indy specific?
Michael Zarick: No. I don't care.
Patrick Armstrong: Um, okay. That actually is very informative for how, what question I'm gonna ask. Um, okay, so my question is,
[01:11:00] this is great podcasting. Um, now I feel like my question's stupid I don't think there's think questions. I think in fact this is the stupid perfect time for stupid questions. There are many stupid questions and I'm thinking of a bunch of, I'm keeping all this in. I'm thinking a bunch of, a bunch of stupid questions right now.
Ah, yeah. So yeah, like I've given a lot of hints as to like my favorite kind of podcast and like I like to laugh and all that stuff so you can guarantee the question I'm about to ask is gonna be stupid, but. All right. Would you rather
wear shoes with no socks for the rest of your life? But you can't, but when you shower, you can't wash your feet, or would you rather
eat only bacon for the [01:12:00] rest of your life,
but you don't have any of the adverse effects of the over ingestion of fat from the bacon. However,
you don't have your two big toes on your feet. Those are the parameters of my question.
Michael Zarick: Let me just read this back to you. My would you rather, it was very over complicated. I told you it was difficult Would you rather wear shoes with no socks for the rest of your life, but you can't shower your feet or only eat bacon and there's no negative side effects, but you also have no big toes.
Have you ever seen, um, you ever watched Phil of the Future? That was incredible. Uh, there was an old Disney channel show called [01:13:00] Phil the Future, and there's a whole episode dedicated to how Phil and his family who are from the future yeah, have evolved to only have four toes on their feet. That's hilarious.
I've actually
Patrick Armstrong: got most nervous about asking that question. That's not my question. I gotta think of another one. What? Um, I'm Oh, okay. I got it. I got it. I got it. Who is my next
Michael Zarick: guess? That's, I, are they gonna be confused? Who is my next Oh, I know who it is.
Patrick Armstrong: Um.
What book had the most significant impact on you as, as you were growing up?
Michael Zarick: Not many people get two questions, but you're gettin' one.
Patrick Armstrong: That first question you can't ask. It's too much. What? Only, uh, you, you can ask it, but I have to be there to open the floor for questions and feel any questions they have about the scenario.
Actually, they're probably gonna choose the, they're probably gonna choose the shower one if I had to guess.
Michael Zarick: That's true. You lose that on a lot by only eating bacon [01:14:00]
Patrick Armstrong: because there's not, there's not as much prohibitiveness other than your feet stink, but some people don't like the sneaky feet. Also, you're
Michael Zarick: collecting a lot of dirt.
I want to answer your question about the book, because I've been thinking about this a lot recently.
Patrick Armstrong: Oh, okay. It's fresh in my mind. 'cause of Ruba.
Michael Zarick: There's a book. Well, you said specifically growing up. Yeah. Um, and there's a book that I have loved. Forever. And I actually reread it recently and I said, I don't know why I like this book so much, but I still do.
It's called The Giving Tree.
Patrick Armstrong: Oh my God. I was literally just about to say, once he is done talking, I'm gonna tell him how I just read The Giving Tree recently. It fucked me
Michael Zarick: up. I think The Giving Tree has had more influence on my personal moral beliefs and politics than any other singular thing ever,
Patrick Armstrong: bro.
Then be then become a parent and read it. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: About giving all of yourself to another entity.
Patrick Armstrong: Bro. I had to read that to Van one day [01:15:00] and I was weeping by the end. He's like, he can't say what's wrong, but he was basically looking at me like, what the hell's wrong with you? And I was just like,
Michael Zarick: oh, I, I will link, there is a free version of The Giving Tree on the internet.
I will link that in the show notes. Please read it. It's so, so good, so good. And it's like, it's like 10 pages. So good. Um. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get emotional. Just think about it. Well, uh, thank you Patrick for joining me on this episode of Third Space Indy. Hell yeah. I have so many, there's so many other things to talk about.
Maybe you will be the recurring guest who we're always seeking the recurring guest. You want the
Patrick Armstrong: recurring guest? Let me be a recurring guest on your podcast, please. You did, you did offer to be the cameraman, please. Sweet. I'm looking for the, I'm looking to get mics on my producers on the people behind the scenes.
Again, if you watch the bonus episode, you know, I'm trying to cultivate a very, Conan Needs a Friend podcast vibe. Go watch Conan Needs a Friend and see what kind of vibe I'm trying to cultivate. This is fun. It's that kind of aesthetic and that kind of conversation. I'm trying to, um, just fun.
Michael Zarick: But [01:16:00] anyways, uh, can you tell the people where they can find you, what you do and what you got coming up?
'cause there's a lot.
Patrick Armstrong: Uh, yeah, if you want to find anything that I'm doing, you can go to Patrickintheworld.me or follow me on Instagram at Patrick in the world. Instagram is my main mode of social media communication, or you can search me Patrick, in the world on LinkedIn. Uh, getting a little bit more active up on there.
Have a business on there now?
Michael Zarick: No, Patrick. Oh, okay.
Patrick Armstrong: I just talk about, I've just been on LinkedIn for a while in this post profile person, but you said Patrick In The World on LinkedIn. Oh, that's just what the, 'cause that when I was starting to do my own stuff originally I consolidated everything to one, try to link as many of my change as many of my links to the same thing.
Got it. Got it. Uh, and that was before I knew Conversation Piece was gonna be a thing. Mm-hmm. So, um, do that come to the live shows. We got two more left this year. Uh, the next one on Wednesday, November 12th, uh, we'll be back at Draft Tinker Street Ash & Elm on the food and Bev [01:17:00] respectively. That guest is gonna be Skypp.
Uh, we're gonna have a really incredible conversation. I'm super excited about it. Uh, we also got the giveaways, so make sure you pull up for that, especially if you love good food. Um, also have not announced the December one yet, but it's gonna be on the 10th. Uh, also on Wednesday. Guest is already locked in per one hint, previous guest on the show.
Um, but it's gonna be a great bridge into 2026 when I'm trying to swing for the fences with my guests. So be on lookout for that conversationpiecepod.com, at Conversation Piece Pod for all of those things. And yeah, I think that's it. Conversation peace wherever gets your podcasts, Janchi show wherever you gets your podcasts as well.
And I think that's all I'm involved in. Actually, no. When's this episode coming out? Monday. Monday, uh, I am giving a keynote. Oh, I'm giving a keynote. Uh, if for this, for all my adoptees but also anybody involved in the adoption constellation, I'm giving a keynote, uh, speech. I'm closing it down. Actually, I just found out, [01:18:00] uh, for the Adoption Knowledge Affiliates annual conference, um, that is on the 15th and sixth.
Nope, that is on the first week of Nove weekend of November. Go to adoptionknowledgeaffiliates.org and you can find out when the conference is, but it's virtual, so tickets are still available. Uh, they don't do cost prohibitive ticketing, so if you for some reason can't do it, they got scholarships. Um, it's gonna be a really great time.
Uh, my keynote's gonna be good, but April Dinwoody who was keynoting the first night probably gonna be even better 'cause she's amazing. I'm super excited for that. So get some tickets to that. I am also MCing slash hosting The first. Adoptee and Foster Youth Leadership Summit that is happening in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
That's on the 15th of six. Are you going to that 16th? Yeah. That's cool. So I'll be in person for that hosting that. Shout out to Gracie Young Foster and, um, the Inclusion Initiative for thinking of me to be a part of this. Uh, also be moderating a panel. Um, so get your [01:19:00] tickets for that. Pull up to that if you're in Minneapolis, uh, or if you wanna fly in, um, in our beautiful, wonderful air traffic system that we currently have going on.
But I do have those things going on because this is coming out before November. So pull up to the Adoption Knowledge Affiliates Conference. Uh, it is gonna be really good. Um, and they do a lot of really good work there. And then if you are in Minneapolis, I I, and you're interested in how you can best support adoptees and former foster youth who are doing a lot of really cool stuff in all sectors and industries, um, go to inclusion initiative.org.
Uh, you can find out more information about the summit there and get your tickets and all that. So.
Michael Zarick: Hey, thanks for listening to not only the longest episode of Third Space Indy, but also the longest outro of all time. Uh, and I dab still. Thanks Patrick for joining me. Uh, thank you, Mark Latta and City Rising for sponsoring the podcast.
I really appreciate it. Go to [01:20:00] cityrising.org. There's some cool stuff to see there. Uh, thank you Jennasen for spon or not sponsoring. Thank you Jennasen for local music artist for allowing me to use your music as the intro and outro music, although I'm kind of thinking about changing that up. Not specifically Jennasen, but the intro music.
you can find me at Third Space Indy on Instagram or at thirdspaceIndy.com. I write a blog that releases with every episode on Monday. If you wanna gimme your email, I'll send it to you. That's it. Uh, thanks for listening. See you in the next one. Bye bye.
[01:21:00]