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Intro

Writing this a week late so a bit bare bones. Got sick. May update in the future!

Can be found here:

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• Links of references from the show

• Production learnings

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• Episode Summary

• Episode Transcript

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Important links and mentions

• Lillian Barkes

• Listen to Our Future

Third Space Indy is supported by City Rising

Episode Summary

In this episode of Third Space Indy, host Michael Zarick interviews Lillian Barkes, CEO and Co-founder of Listen to Our Future. They discuss the systemic issues leading to youth violence, the importance of addressing root causes, and the significance of providing safe, supportive community spaces. Lillian shares her experiences growing up in Indianapolis, her journey into youth work, and the challenges faced during her teaching career, especially under COVID-19 conditions. They explore the concept of 'third places' and the impact of positive and negative influences on young people. Both emphasize the need for community support, grassroots initiatives, and systemic change to better the lives of youth in Indianapolis.
00:00 Early Childhood Reflections
01:47 The Concept of Third Place
02:17 Meeting Lillian Barkes
03:30 Introduction to Listen to Our Future
04:19 Personal Journey and Challenges in Education
09:59 Impact of COVID on Teaching
13:14 Addressing Systemic Issues in Education
24:43 Creating Safe Spaces for Youth
34:21 The Decline of Circle Center Mall
35:26 Rising Rent and Housing Challenges
36:22 Supporting Parents and Reducing Youth Crime
38:43 Introducing Third Space Indy
39:35 Defining a Third Space
42:24 Personal Reflections on Church and Community
46:03 Final Thoughts and Future Guests
46:16 Accessibility and Infrastructure

Episode Transcript

Lillian Barkes
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[00:00:00] Lillian Barkes: so from a young age, I had the understanding that like, not every parent is providing, like, they're not providing for their children in the way that you think that they.

They should or they would. fast forward, like a year later there, we used to live by this ditch and we were actually on the news because there was just like a bunch of rain. And one of the kids got, well, two of the kids got swept in the rain like ripped off all their clothes. They were about to go into the tunnel of the ditch that would lead to different parts of the sewer.

And there were two little, like steps and. The boy grabbed onto it and he was able to be saved. Right. the whole question was, where are his parents? The whole question with the other student, where are their parents? But these are, these are young, young children. And so I think it starts so young that what do we expect when they become 12, 13, 14 years old?

Because it's like they're children. They're children at the end of the day and they're, this is the environment that they grow up in, whether it's happening at school, happening in their communities. And I just think it's so funny that we talk so much about youth violence, but we don't talk about what brings 'em to that point, because the violence is the end of the road.

There's all these things that happen to begin it all.

[00:01:20] Michael Zarick: I mean, it's the same conversation with adult crime.

[00:01:22] Lillian Barkes: Exactly! yeah. And so I'm just like, why are we focusing so much on the outcomes, the outputs, and we're not focusing on the inputs.

[00:01:47] Michael Zarick: Hello. In 1989, a man named Ray Oldenberg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he coined the term third place. This is somebody somewhere outside of your home, outside of your work where you can go be yourself, be with others, and build community.

So I've made it my goal here in Indianapolis to find people all over the city who are doing their very best to make those spaces. So today I'm happy to say that I have found another one, and their name is, Lillian Barkes, who is the CEO and Co-founder of Listen to Our Future. And Lillian and I met at the circle one day, uh, as with many stories.

Mm-hmm. Uh, I was doing a short content with, Patrick Armstrong, and Lillian was there. Mm-hmm. Patrick goes, Michael, you should meet Lillian. I was like, I don't know who that is. And he goes, that's her over there. I was like, oh, okay. but then we, we had a little chat and I was like, oh, this person's like.

You're pretty cool. Uh, so I got your number and it's been sort of small back and forth since then, but, uh, we'll get into that a little bit more. First of all, hello. How are you doing?

[00:03:05] Lillian Barkes: I'm doing good. Yeah, it's Friday. Um, I had a big deadline today. Oh yeah? Uh, yes. Are you allowed

[00:03:10] Michael Zarick: to share what it's for?

[00:03:11] Lillian Barkes: It is for the Indiana Learns Grant.

Mm-hmm. So students are eligible up for up to a thousand dollars for free tutoring through the state. Um, they recently just got millions of dollars to continue to expand this program. Unfortunately, the deadline is today to register. Mm-hmm. We'll be back again next year.

[00:03:28] Michael Zarick: Let's go. Yep. Um, so for anybody that does not know, and this kind of includes me to an extent, can you give me the elevator pitch slash uh, whatever you feel like saying about Listen to Our Future?

[00:03:42] Lillian Barkes: Yeah. So Listen to Our Future. We're a grassroots organization that serves youth ages five to 25, and we do high dosage tutoring, project-based learning and youth employment.

[00:03:53] Michael Zarick: And you started doing this work when you were 18?

[00:03:57] Lillian Barkes: Pretty much. Sort of like I got into youth work at 18. Um, we started the organization in 2020.

Mm-hmm. Um, but I will say like all of my experiences have kind of culminated to this point of starting my own thing. Getting people to see my vision and see my idea. Mm-hmm. And then joining alongside me and helping it come to life.

[00:04:18] Michael Zarick: Yeah. And you're an Indianapolis native?

[00:04:21] Lillian Barkes: Um, I was born in China. Well, I'm a translational adoptee.

Yes. But yes, I, um, have pretty much been raised in Indianapolis my entire life.

[00:04:29] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I didn't mean to demean that side of you. 'cause I do think it's a very important part of your story, actually, as it is with, uh, many people with your similar experience. Mm-hmm. Although they're all unique, I've found, uh, obviously.

so I brought up that you and I have crossed paths a couple of different times and I thought it was so, as many things are serendipitous that this past week we were both at the ILEA meeting where they, the ILEA voted, which if you're listening to this and you don't know what ILE is, it's Indianapolis Local Education Alliance.

This is a sort of secondary school board that makes. Policy suggestions to the State House. Uh, they voted to send recommendations, uh, to the State House that I think, uh, you and I find not agreeable. Uh, but I wanted to give you a shout out 'cause you were at the meeting and you were up there and you gave a short speech as all of them were short 'cause they limit you to a minute.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I want to commend you 'cause you're out here doing the work and when we first met. You said something to me that I, that really connected with me. It's part of the reason that I followed up with you. You're doing what?

[00:05:42] Lillian Barkes: I dunno what it's, I say a lot of things

[00:05:45] Michael Zarick: You said, I consider myself more of a Malcolm than a than a Martin.

Than a Martin. Yeah. Uh, and I Do you have any, oh. And if for any reason you don't know who that's addressing, it's Malcolm X versus Martin Luther King Jr. So can you tell me like what that means to you and how you sort of. express that in your work?

[00:06:05] Lillian Barkes: Yes. Um, I think, you know, we're talking about two very powerful black men in history.

Mm-hmm. Um, we talked about one who kind of tread the line of we need to be peaceful, like we need to, you know, live in harmony with one another. And then we had another one who took like, you know, more of a radical approach of like, um, liberation by any means necessary. Um, and as I have to sit and think about that as an individual, because I think that we all experience some levels of oppression from.

A being, whether it's, you know, a work, a workplace, whether it's economically, whether it's in your education, whether it's racially sexism, like all these isms exist, right? Um, and. When I was younger, so I was in eighth grade when Trayvon Martin was killed, and that had a really like big impact on me. One being from a pri predominantly white school and being in a predominantly white family couldn't quite understand what was happening, but also understanding that he was only a couple years older than me and so.

That could happen to my peers, it could happen to people that I care about. Um, and you know, I think I was naive at the time as a naive eighth grader to think like, oh, there are adults in this world who will right the wrongs, who will do the right thing, who will make sure things like this don't ever happen again.

Mm-hmm. Um, very naively continued to live through life. And then, you know, summer of 2020 we experienced, um. The murders of Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and such a condensed amount of time that the, these were the same patterns. You know, it's the same racism, it's the same, it's the same motives, it's all the same.

Um, and the fact that, you know, as a country, we were arguing with one another about what was right and wrong. We were ha like having discourse, but not having discourse, um, about. Where people's priorities really were and how they see themselves in humanity and where they position themselves as a human.

And it was very obvious that there were some people that positioned their humanity over others. Um, so I, you know, I trusted people to fix the, to right these wrongs. And as I got older, I just saw that that wasn't happening. And I think that we need to do something about that. I don't think anyone deserves to walk around this earth with a question of, is someone going to take my life?

Because I simply exist in the wrong place at the wrong time, in the right place at the wrong time. I,

[00:08:58] Michael Zarick: you know, I mean, we've seen that happen twice over the past weekend, actually. I mean, not even just weekend, but you know, just like, again, with like the fact that you're bringing this up about, um. Like racialized murder or any of that type of stuff.

It's like that specifically happened this past weekend.

[00:09:17] Lillian Barkes: So I feel like I had like, you know, a Martin hat on for a long, long time, you know, going into high school, even going into college. And then I was really challenged with my own identity and what I believed about myself and what I believe, um, humanity deserves.

And that's when I kind of like had this shift of we can't always just. Sit around and hope and pray for the best. Mm-hmm. Um, talk first.

[00:09:44] Michael Zarick: Well, 'cause you've talked about, you've talked about, um, some of the inspiration for starting this nonprofit came from your personal experience in education, right?

[00:09:52] Lillian Barkes: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:52] Michael Zarick: Can you sort of talk about that and like what, maybe what maybe like led you to be like, I'm fed up with this.

[00:09:58] Lillian Barkes: Uh, yeah. So my first year teaching was COVID. Um, and good start. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great start. Um, but previously I'd worked for the John Boner Neighborhood Center in their afterschool program and summer camp.

So I had been working on the near East side, you know, for four years, um, leading up to my first year teaching. And I taught at Brookside Elementary, also on the near East side. Um, so I just really felt called to, you know, continue to support in the best way that I knew how. This area that I've already spent so much of my early career in, um, first year COVID, I had a classroom.

I was teaching third grade, which I would never recommend a third grade teach or a first year teacher be put in third grade because that's when you take all the standardized tests. Mm-hmm. I did do some calculations and if you are an English language learner in IPS, you're taking 11 tests, like big tests.

[00:10:53] Michael Zarick: That's like. Well, I don't know how many test-, like, is that like once, because that's more than one a month. Basically,

[00:11:01] Lillian Barkes: you have to, um, you know, so they're taking NWEA mm-hmm. Which measures their growth. They're taking iRead, which measures their third grade proficiency. They're also taking iLearn, which they have to take iLearn four times a year.

They have three checkpoints. Mm-hmm. And then the big one. Um, and then if you're an English language learner, then you're also taking WIDA, which is the reading or the speaking, um, writing proficiency exam. That's, that's crazy exam. Um, so yeah, that was my experience. And COVID we shut down in the middle of the year.

I actually have a picture of my first class on my wall over there, and it was the most gut-wrenching thing I think I've ever experienced. During that time, you know, we weren't one-to-one with technology, so we sent our students home with packets, but they didn't have the wifi or the devices to actually do anything with their packets.

Mm-hmm. I was required to record a video and like put the answers to the packets on YouTube. Okay, that's great. But if you don't have a device, you can't do anything about that. So I, um. Got on Facebook marketplace and like the Hamilton County chats and I started asking people for devices and I was able to get my students enough devices to where they could do their assignments.

Now did they do them? No. But at least, uh, that wasn't an excuse, you know, that I don't, I don't have anything to do it on. Mm-hmm. So. That really became about eliminating barriers, and that's really what I strive to do as a teacher. Not just like educationally, but like whatever barriers there are for you to be.

Fully and authentically a participant in my classroom, in this learning environment. And for a lot of students, that's like basic needs. You know, maybe they don't have their lights on at home. Um, maybe there's no one at school or at home to get them up in the morning for school. So I'd be sending alarms on my kids' iPads

[00:12:56] Michael Zarick: and like for them, like, send it home with the Yes.

[00:12:57] Lillian Barkes: Send it home. And I'm like, get, get up. This is your alarm to get up and get to school. and so, yeah, that was like a really big experience. Uh, going into teaching and then COVID, I mean, the, the issues just continued to exacerbate. So I would drop off food boxes to families, um, do all this other stuff.. We came back from COVID and the schools were trying to decide, do we come back, do we not?

And I had the biggest class in the school and 15 kids of 15 of my kids were in person and 15 of them were online. That was a nightmare. I had three screens going at all time. I had my online class, I had my in-person kids, I had my smart board, and I had my projector. It was a lot. Um, but that year they also decided to continue to standardize test our kids because they wanted to see how much learning they lost.

And that was the worst. You know, my students, I remember one in particular, he. Came to me reading at a second or a kindergarten level for kindergarten, and he was at a kindergarten level for kindergarten, first grade, second grade, and third grade. Mm-hmm. No growth.

[00:14:00] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:14:01] Lillian Barkes: We finally got him into like middle of the year, second grade level, but he still wasn't ready to take iRead.

He still wasn't ready to take iLearn, but they wanted him to do it anyway. Mm-hmm. Um, so for the writing portion for iLearn, he wrote in his little text box, I hat, hat, hat, hat, hat, you. Really meaning I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate you. And all that hate was directed at me because I was his teacher telling him, you need to do this.

Um, and at that moment, you know, like he was bawling his eyes out, like he had his hood over his head. And I realized that I was being used as a tool for someone else's abuse

[00:14:38] Michael Zarick: when a student, um. When a student fails one of those classes, especially like I read, like what happens?

[00:14:47] Lillian Barkes: Well now if they fail, I read, then they, there's a possibility that they'll get held back.

Um, there's a few exceptions for students that can continue to go on, but um, now because of recent legislation, you have to get held back. That's not how it was before, but like. A decade ago it was supposed to be like that.

[00:15:07] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:07] Lillian Barkes: Um, so yeah. You know, legislation really impacts our students in how they're able to move throughout their educational career.

[00:15:16] Michael Zarick: Yeah. That's a crazy story. Yeah. Um, so you're sort of wading through what you maybe perceive, and correct me if I'm wrong, like what I would call like a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of like. Outsized expectations for children. Um, what about Listen to Our Future helps you escape that?

[00:15:40] Lillian Barkes: So when I was teaching, um, I was afraid to speak up about a lot of things.

I was a constantly running, like running from school takeover. Mm-hmm. So my first year teaching, I started thinking about my exit plan and I think, what was your question?

[00:15:55] Michael Zarick: What, what about, uh, Listen to Our Future helps you escape the sort of escape bureaucracy and, and this sort of like, uh, well you mentioned being complicit in someone else's abuse.

Yes. Like how are you, um, sort of managing that?

[00:16:11] Lillian Barkes: Yes. So, um, and my third year I actually got switched down to third grade or to second grade, and which is they don't test as much. And that was a really big relief on me, like for my mental health. So just like switching a grade made a huge difference. Um, but with Listen to Our Future, you know, we can really put pressure on the system from the inside and the outside.

You know, when I was inside the system, the change that I could make was very limited to the politics of whatever was going on at the school, at the district at the time. Um, and, you know, you're just very limited as an educator to what you can teach to always having to teach to the test, um, and having to just follow a lot of rules following the curriculum with quote unquote fidelity.

Um. When the curriculum doesn't know your students, they don't know their stories. They don't know their backgrounds, they don't know how hard they work. Um. So, yeah, I think now we're really able to put pressure on both and that is something that I'm incredibly thankful for. 'cause not only are we going into the school day and helping work with students in small groups with tutoring, we're also able to do that outside of the school.

Um, and we don't have to follow all the same rules that the school, you know, we can use the curriculum, but we know. We can pull what we need from it. We can do what fits best for the student, where we can look at the academic state standards. Mm-hmm. And we can say, okay, this is where you need to go next.

Where a lot of times the curriculum is not written for Indiana State standards. It's written for common core standards. So there's naturally things that are missed, things that are not included. Yeah. You know, you kind of have to go through it with a fine tooth comb and make sure that everything's in alignment.

But if you don't have the capacity for that, that. It doesn't happen.

[00:17:56] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:17:56] Lillian Barkes: So

[00:17:57] Michael Zarick: do you have measured like a measure of outcomes?

[00:18:00] Lillian Barkes: Yes, we do. Um, I would have to pull it up for you. That's okay. Because every time, you know, the thing about having a grassroots organization is that we didn't have anyone to say like, here's the playbook, here's how you do it.

What this came out of was seeing a lot of things in practice, seeing small groups being pulled at the day during the day throughout my school, focusing on phonics instruction. Um. To where we have continu continuously fine tuned what we do to make it the best possible outcomes for our students to where we're using data, we're using blended learning, and we're also teaching them about 21st century employability skills.

'cause a lot of times students, you know, they say, I don't like reading or I don't like math, but there's really a whole, um, part of their identity that is hurting because they're struggling and we don't address that. A lot of times, you know, and it, it'll manifest itself, like the struggle will manifest itself through maybe getting angry, breaking down and crying, getting really frustrated.

Um, and sometimes teachers don't, just don't have the time or capacity to help build up that student's confidence to where everything else is. It just kind of falls into place. Mm-hmm. So there's like this really big, invisible emotional hump that you really have to get over and then you can work on the rest.

[00:19:22] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:22] Lillian Barkes: But so our, what we do is we focus, we focus on both, and we understand that how you view yourself as a learner is a prerequisite to doing well in the things that you're learning. You have to feel good about yourself in order to feel good about what you learn, what you're learning. Yeah.

[00:19:42] Michael Zarick: Definitely.

[00:19:42] Lillian Barkes: It's really hard to. Feel bad about yourself and then be like, oh, you know the, I can apply this here. You know, I think that's where students are getting more and more disengaged from school. They don't see how it's applicable. They don't see where am I gonna use this in the real world? But I think what is always going to be applicable is the, the hard work that it takes to learn a new skill.

The mental stamina that it takes to sit through something for a long time. You know, you don't get that instant gratification, so you gotta really work towards it.

[00:20:12] Michael Zarick: I think that question of like, how does my learning manifest in real life is always so difficult to answer because I, I think in retrospect, there's so many things that I thought were very pointless in school, and if you ask like, how am I gonna use this?

The teacher doesn't have a good answer. But I think like there is so much about. School that just like happens to come up at some time. Like, and without being able to pinpoint specific examples of that, but it's just like, oh, you know, taking a math class where they teach you how to do like arithmetic mm-hmm.

Is always gonna come up, you know? Mm-hmm. And it's really hard to like constantly share the example of how every single lesson is important. It feels like a waste of time. Mm-hmm. So being able to like. Maybe express that to people is, uh, helpful. I, I texted you something the other day Yeah.

And you were like, I, that's a heavy topic. Yeah. But I do wanna talk about it.

Okay.

I, someone said to me, uh, and I've brought this on up on the podcast before, but someone said to me that children are the most hated minority of any. Mm-hmm. Um. And I think when I, as since that person said it to me, I have thought about it almost every day since.

Mm. And have witnessed choices by our society, our city, um, our state government that affect children by my perception in a very negative way. Mm-hmm. Um, why do you think we struggle so heavily with, uh. Being kind to children. That's a really, I know it's a heavy question.

[00:21:56] Lillian Barkes: Yeah. I mean, I, and you know, you're, you're talking to someone who, the narrative of the first year of my life was, you were left, you were abandoned.

This is how they found you. You know? And as I've become an adult, uh, I see and read more and more articles about how. That might not even be true. You know? So I think you, we try, and I, I came from. My family that adopted me, uh, they were very protective. I think that they tried to like put me in a bubble and try to make sure that nothing bad would, you know, happen or that made me see, they tried to make me see the world as, you know, such a bright place, but I didn't see it like that.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that we oftentimes have our own perceptions of what we want other people to see. Especially as a parent, um, I can't speak as a parent because I'm not a parent.

[00:22:57] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:22:57] Lillian Barkes: But I would imagine that you either want what's best for your child or you don't, you know? Mm-hmm. So if you don't want what's best for your child, because that's, you have internal things that might prevent you from even having the emotional availability to, you know, want better for sometimes even yourself, that, that really gets in the way of.

Us being able to care for one another. Um, but I think a lot of that is lack of support. It's lack of community, it's lack of connection. And then we just kind of like spew our miserable selves onto everyone else. And you see this, you know, as with some parents, you might see this, you know, with legislators that are making decisions about children without even asking them.

Mm-hmm. Um. Then, you know, you have the, the parents that want a particular type of life for their children, and then they make the assumption that everyone wants that type of life for their children. So now we're dictating how other parents parent, or how other parents should parent. And I don't think we're necessarily in a position to tell someone that.

I think, uh, and we try to be the heroes of other people's stories instead of like allowing them or empowering them to be the hero of their own story. We're just like hijack. Mm-hmm. My way or the highway. Yeah.

[00:24:25] Michael Zarick: I like the way you phrase that. You, I like the way you phrased that. Yeah. Um, there's this constant, I've brought it up a lot of times, like there's this constant conversation.

Well, it feels, it feels contemporary, but this conversation around like, childhood crime or like young adult crime. Yeah. You're laughing. I'm sorry. Um, um, and this is topical to my podcast because I like to talk about community spaces, places for people to be, um, and right now we are severely lacking in, and actually this is why we are, this has not been explicitly stated, but we are in the Listen to Our Future Office, which is on East Washington.

What's the address?

[00:25:09] Lillian Barkes: 1518 East Washington Street.

[00:25:10] Michael Zarick: 1518 East Washington.

[00:25:13] Lillian Barkes: Suite 100

[00:25:14] Michael Zarick: and, and this is a, like a wonderful space. And I imagine that at sometimes, not today, but there are, are people, children specifically in here. Um, there's a library, there's like seating areas, there's a kitchen, all of that stuff that could be useful to people.

But this type of space is rare. And beyond that, like a lot of people don't know this exists. Mm-hmm. And when you talk about. Childhood crime or whatever that means. Um, and roving bike gangs, as my wife and I like to say. Mm-hmm. Um, where else do you expect kids to go than the streets if you don't give them a place to go?

[00:25:58] Lillian Barkes: I will say I am in the biggest bike gang in Indianapolis and I have a tattoo to prove it. Is

[00:26:02] Michael Zarick: that the The bike party? It is the bike party.

[00:26:05] Lillian Barkes: It's the bike party gang. Um, okay, so let me take you back to like my early childhood. I grew up on like Michigan and Post for the first few years of my life, and I remember there was a little boy who lived right down the street from me and he would come over all the time.

But he would smell like urine.

[00:26:24] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:24] Lillian Barkes: And my parents would feed him, bathe him. Like, and I remember being in preschool and like remembering the smell of this child because that's an

[00:26:34] Michael Zarick: interesting, um, sensory callback.

[00:26:38] Lillian Barkes: Yes. But that really, like from, so from a young age, I had the understanding that like, not every parent is providing, like, they're not providing for their children in the way that you think that they.

They should or they would. and so fast forward, like a year later there, we used to live by this ditch and we were actually on the news because there was just like a bunch of rain. And one of the kids got, well, two of the kids got swept in the rain and um, like ripped off all their clothes. They were about to go into the tunnel of the ditch that would lead to different parts of the sewer.

And there were two little, like steps and. The boy grabbed onto it and he was able to be saved. Right. But the whole question was, where are his parents? The whole question with the other student, where are their parents? But these are, these are young, young children. Mm-hmm. You know, and so I think it starts so young that what do we expect when they become 12, 13, 14 years old?

Um, when it comes to like youth crime.

[00:27:51] Michael Zarick: Sorry. It's like such a, you said it was such a sarcasm

[00:27:55] Lillian Barkes: because it's like they're children. They're children at the end of the day and they're, this is the environment that they grow up in, whether it's happening at school, happening in their communities. and I just think it's so funny that we talk so much about youth violence, but we don't talk about what brings 'em to that point, because the violence is the end of the road.

There's all these things that happen to begin it all.

[00:28:23] Michael Zarick: I mean, it's the same conversation with adult crime.

[00:28:26] Lillian Barkes: Exactly, yeah. And

so I'm just like, why are we focusing so much on the outcomes, the outputs, and we're not focusing on the inputs.

[00:28:36] Michael Zarick: Ooh.

[00:28:36] Lillian Barkes: And so

[00:28:37] Michael Zarick: I like that phrasing. Again, you're so good at the like.

The,

[00:28:40] Lillian Barkes: I talked to eight and nine year olds for a living for a very long time. So painting pictures was like my specialty. But we, we spent so much time talking about the outputs that I wanna talk about, the inputs I wanna talk about. And maybe, you know, as a, I was a young person, I had a lot of inputs, I had a lot of positive influences in my life.

Mm-hmm. But you look at some other students, and they might only have one. Or two, uh, positive inputs, and the rest of them are incredibly negative.

[00:29:11] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:12] Lillian Barkes: So then what do you expect?

[00:29:14] Michael Zarick: Yeah,

[00:29:15] Lillian Barkes: it's a, it's a, you know,

[00:29:17] Michael Zarick: so you, you don't think it's necessarily even just a space issue. You think there's, it's, it's everything.

I mean, obviously you're. I'm not a believer in nature over nurture. Definitely

[00:29:27] Lillian Barkes: Space is a prerequisite to conversation. Mm-hmm. Whether it's like physical space or metaphorical space. Um, that's the prerequisite. So the fact that we can't even address this right here, we can't even get to anything else down here, or we're working against ourselves.

I think a lot of, uh, youth serving organizations expect youth to come and talk about their mental health, but they actually don't provide the space. To talk about their mental health. And what I mean by that is, you know, your, your boss might say, oh, I have an open door policy. Okay, great. I'm sure that's in everyone's handbook.

[00:30:03] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:30:03] Lillian Barkes: But walking through that door is so different.

[00:30:06] Michael Zarick: Lemme go tell my boss I wanna raise. And,

[00:30:10] Lillian Barkes: but you walk, you might not know what to expect when you walk through that door. Mm-hmm. And if your boss is unpredictable, then that can lead to a very scary environment.

[00:30:18] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:30:19] Lillian Barkes: So I think the, um, you know. Words matter, of course, but we have to really be about what we say and we need to come with action-based solutions.

I can't expect any of my staff members to come in and talk to me about their mental health when they're too afraid to walk through the door, even though I say, oh, I have an open door policy. Like that's, that's not real if no one's actually doing it or if they don't feel comfortable doing it. Yeah, and I think that's where youth, I mean, I feel uncomfortable talking about my mental health, what.

You think if someone puts me in a room, I'm gonna talk about my mental health, even if I know the people I'm s

[00:30:57] Michael Zarick: no. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:59] Lillian Barkes: Maybe. But when I was younger, no.

[00:31:02] Michael Zarick: Lay it out on the Third Space Indy podcast.

[00:31:05] Lillian Barkes: I mean, you know, I, uh, as a, as a young woman, um, you know, 12, 13, 14 years old, I was in an incredibly abusive relationship.

I didn't have anyone to talk to about it.

[00:31:19] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:20] Lillian Barkes: Um, nor do I think I really would

[00:31:25] Michael Zarick: who in that scenario. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. In that scenario, like who would you have wanted to talk to? Anyone?

[00:31:35] Lillian Barkes: I wish. And maybe like, it's not who, maybe it's, uh, I just wish there was more space. Mm. You know, like I was always really close to my cousins, but they're kind of a little, they're like five to eight years older than me.

Um, but there are definitely people now that I look back that I could have talked to about it, but I didn't necessarily have the space because no one was like locking me and my cousins in a room together to just stare at each other until something was said. Mm-hmm. You know, something of. Meaning was said.

Yeah. But I do think that if we allowed more time for that to happen, then I would've eventually opened up about some of the things that I was dealing with. Yeah. But it ultimately took, you know, really bad things to happen for me to get the help that I, that I needed to where I was, you know, in this. The cycle.

And then it became embarrassing because I, I waited so long to get help and, um, now like everyone knows my business and it's hard being a youth. It's very hard. Yeah. So

[00:32:40] Michael Zarick: there, um, I don't even think you're in misalignment with like what I said, like talking about space. Like when I think about the eighties.

Let me paint you a picture. I'm not from the eighties, I'm from 1995, but when I think about the eighties, I think about arcades. Mm-hmm. I think about shopping malls.

[00:32:57] Lillian Barkes: Yes.

[00:32:57] Michael Zarick: I think about public parks.

[00:32:59] Lillian Barkes: Yes.

[00:32:59] Michael Zarick: I think it's basically, I'm listing off stuff in Stranger Things, but it's like I think about riding around on a bike with your friends.

The roller skating rink. Roller skating rink. This is a common thing here in Indianapolis actually, but um. Sock hop. Is that a thing people say? What's that? Uh, you've never heard the term sock hop? No. That's like a school, like dance basically for kids. Oh. Um, but just there are places for people under the age of 18 to go and exist.

Mm-hmm. And again, have space with each other that is apart from. Whatever systems that they are experiencing trauma through. Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, I can go spend a couple quarters playing Street Fighter at the arcade.

[00:33:43] Lillian Barkes: Or even like the spaces that they're forced to be in, like they're forced to be at school.

Mm. Sometimes they're forced to be at church

[00:33:50] Michael Zarick: or at home,

[00:33:51] Lillian Barkes: or they're for, you know, so we, I think we've really gotten away from having third spaces that they're not actually forced to be in. Even a program. Mm-hmm. Your parents are forcing you to be in the program.

[00:34:03] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:34:04] Lillian Barkes: And so the, they, I see it a lot with young people, you know, they come with just such a chip on their shoulders sometimes.

Um, but that's because they're always being bossed around and they don't have those spaces. If you wanna go play an Arcade game for free here in the city under the age of 21, I have no idea where that could happen. You have to either go to one of the bars mm-hmm. Um, or even Pins Mechanical you have to pay for.

[00:34:27] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Um, and even like I think about, like my wife really has this, um, she holds Circle Center Mall in like high regard as a, as a, she's just like, that was the place to be.

Yeah.

And now when you go in there, it is an empty shell of itself. Mm-hmm. And it will soon become even more of an empty shell as they remove the roof.

Um, and put up housing. And put up housing, which I think could be good. But, um. I have no opinion on whether it will be good or not. You

[00:34:58] Lillian Barkes: know, they did that with another, with the old, old mall.

[00:35:01] Michael Zarick: There's an old, old mall.

[00:35:02] Lillian Barkes: There is an old, old mall and they have it. They turned it into apartment buildings. So they've already done it once before.

Yeah. It's gonna look a little different. Yeah. But

[00:35:12] Michael Zarick: oh, it's like gonna be open air, right? Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I think, I think the idea is pretty cool. Um, will it be, um. Not terribly expensive. Who's to say, um,

[00:35:26] Lillian Barkes: you know how much I paid in rent to live down here? Just not even like, like, like this area? Yeah.

How much? Um, uh, well by, over by IUPUI's campus. $600 a month between my roommate and I. Oh my God. And we This was in between you? Yeah. 2019. What the, granted we, like, we knew our landlords, but like, but no, that's like, it was like a thousand dollars maybe.

[00:35:47] Michael Zarick: My rent currently podcast listeners. It is around $2,200 a month for a, it's almost two bedroom duplex.

[00:35:55] Lillian Barkes: No, that's almost as much of my mortgage payment.

[00:35:58] Michael Zarick: Amen. Yeah. Did you know, wait, I would, I've never said this on the podcast either. My landlord is the state comptroller or the husband of the state comptroller. So like he has a vested interest in keeping my rent high. Very cool.

Hmm.

That's not youth focused, but that's okay.

Um.

But yeah, I just think that so much of this conversation around like, well, then you talk about the other end of it, which is, you know, I don't have space to go, but I also don't have a strong parental presence. If people want parents to be present, how are your parents present? If they are working two or three jobs, you know, there is no ability to be present if they're.

Barely paying their $2,200 in rent. Uh, you know, I'm very blessed to have, uh, a wife with a good job in myself with a, a very decently paying job, like to be able to sustain that. But not a lot of people have that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's, it's impossible to provide the environment that reduces youth crime, as you said, the inputs.

[00:37:13] Lillian Barkes: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:37:15] Michael Zarick: Yeah,

[00:37:15] Lillian Barkes: it is very difficult and I, it's hard for me to like show up for myself and like take care of myself sometimes. So the fact that their parents are doing it every day, hats off to them. Good for them.

[00:37:29] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:37:29] Lillian Barkes: Thank you for them.

[00:37:30] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:37:31] Lillian Barkes: And I think that, you know, us people without the children, without the, the influence, like it's part of our responsibility to help.

Parents because if we were in that position position, we would need the help.

Yeah.

We just don't understand how like bad it is because we don't live, we don't walk around in that life, you know, to Kill a Mockingbird, my favorite quote in that movie or in that book was like, uh, if you like take your skin off and crawl around in it, like crawl around in someone else's skin.

That really like hit me to where I was like, okay, I can't have all these like. Pessimistic perceptions about people, especially I try not to, especially people who don't have that power, especially people who are the oppressed ones. Like I can't, I don't understand how all of that, first of all, I don't experience all of that, so I can't even begin to understand how all of that might affect one person.

[00:38:34] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:34] Lillian Barkes: Um, but I do think it is our responsibility to alleviate those pressures of others through community.

[00:38:43] Michael Zarick: Mm. Banger uh, we're gonna move on to the canned questions.

[00:38:48] Lillian Barkes: Okay.

[00:38:48] Michael Zarick: Third Space Indy is sponsored by cityrising.org. Mark Latta has decided to sponsor the podcast. Shout out to Mark Lata. If you don't know. City Rising is a social impact studio that leads and supports innovative projects that strengthen, celebrate and repair people and places. So if you're a people or you're the leader of an organization or a place, and you're interested in improving your lived and built environment around you, reach out to me.

Reach out to Mark Latta, and we'll get you set up. Anyways, mark.

[00:39:20] Lillian Barkes: I want that. How do I get that?

[00:39:23] Michael Zarick: I don't know. Pay Mark a Little. You

[00:39:25] Lillian Barkes: said I had to reach out to you?

[00:39:26] Michael Zarick: Pay Mark a little money. I don't know exactly what he does, but he, um, he showed me some projects and they're pretty cool, but it does require a little bit of money.

Okay. Um, Mark has sponsored a question on the podcast, which is, what is a Third Space to you?

[00:39:44] Lillian Barkes: Um, okay. What did I write? I. I had, I wrote something down at a community event and it was like a stay and play, come and chill. There were some words that I used and I was like,

[00:40:02] Michael Zarick: some combination of like, uh,

[00:40:04] Lillian Barkes: because well

[00:40:05] Michael Zarick: exist and be and

[00:40:06] Lillian Barkes: yes, because I was, I was talking about Franklin Township and how Franklin Township has like no third spaces whatsoever for children, and that's how it was when I was younger.

So I was at the CVS every day. Doing things that I shouldn't have been doing, getting into things that I should not have been getting into. And I was like, where are all the, like the stay and hang, stay and hang, stay and hang. Where can I stay and hang? But that's what a Third Space is to me. A place where I can stay and hang and I can bring my friends and we can stay and hang and I don't have to spend any money.

[00:40:36] Michael Zarick: Do you have an example of that? Off, off the rip

[00:40:38] Lillian Barkes: here,

[00:40:40] Michael Zarick: Listen to Our Future. How often are you okay? This is your place of work?

[00:40:44] Lillian Barkes: Yeah.

[00:40:45] Michael Zarick: How often are you here and not working, which I don't think this can actually be your Third Space. That's a, that's a thing, but I'm just wondering.

[00:40:53] Lillian Barkes: Um, I mean, like we have community circle events mm-hmm.

Where I don't feel like I'm working.

[00:41:00] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:00] Lillian Barkes: But I, I don't feel like I'm working ever because you know, if you love your job Oh my. You never work a of your life. Right booo. Oh yeah. Um, but yeah, like for me, third spaces, shh.

[00:41:15] Michael Zarick: Yeah, it's a constant conversation

[00:41:17] Lillian Barkes: and I, I live in Hamilton County currently.

[00:41:19] Michael Zarick: How dare you.

[00:41:20] Lillian Barkes: I know. I'm trying to figure out, out. This is Third Space Indy, by the way. I know, I know, I know, I know. Okay, here, here's, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Okay. I ended up in Hamilton County because my mother passed away and I had to move in with my boyfriend. Mm-hmm. And then we, uh, ended up building a house.

[00:41:35] Michael Zarick: Wait, actually, I think you told me this when we first talked and I didn't note it in my head, but it's not a disqualifier actually. Yeah,

[00:41:42] Lillian Barkes: yeah. But I, I mean, I make the commute here every single day and most of my life I've lived in Indianapolis and I wanna figure out, figure out how to give 40 minutes.

Yeah. I wanna figure out how to get back into Indianapolis. Like that's my, that's my main Yeah. Goal, priority, you know, set bed to do a little bit of investment and then, you know.

[00:41:57] Michael Zarick: Set up a bed. There's some space in here.

[00:42:00] Lillian Barkes: There's no, there's no, um, full bathroom. If there was a full bathroom, like, you know, we might be talking.

We might be talking. But yeah, I would love to figure out how to make it back down here.

[00:42:09] Michael Zarick: That's so funny. All right, next question related kind of.

[00:42:13] Lillian Barkes: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:13] Michael Zarick: What is a Third Space that has existed for you previously that no longer does?

[00:42:24] Lillian Barkes: My church community? Mm-hmm. I would not say that I'm like, I have a, like a home church or anything.

But I do think, you know, I was raised in Catholic school

[00:42:35] Michael Zarick: mm-hmm.

[00:42:36] Lillian Barkes: And then went to a non non-denominational Christian Church, like attended the youth group and a lot of those things. But there's been a lot of church hurt to where I just don't really wanna explore a place of worship. I would rather, you know, make my church around.

The people.

[00:42:53] Michael Zarick: Mm. Capital C Church. I know what you're saying. Yes. I was raised Catholic.

[00:42:57] Lillian Barkes: Yeah. Little, little church, not big church.

[00:42:58] Michael Zarick: Um, one time I was having like a, so I was also raised Catholic. I would actually consider myself pretty Catholic when I was like a junior, senior in high school. I went to a Catholic high school.

Mm-hmm. Although public school the rest of the time. Um, and I like went to go talk to our, like, pastor and I was like, I was like, I don't really go to church anymore. I feel really guilty about it. And she, she said something, um, I. I don't know how, what her 'cause in Catholic Catholicism, women aren't pastors.

I don't know what her relationship was. But anyways, she was, no, not a nun,

[00:43:29] Lillian Barkes: she wasn't a sister.

[00:43:29] Michael Zarick: I don't know what her role, I don't know. But I really liked her. Anyways, she um. I was like, oh, I'm having like a crisis of faith. I don't go to church on the weekends anymore. And she's like, oh, what do you do? I was like, I go to my mom's lake house.

So I was very blessed to have my mom with the lake house. Mm-hmm. And she's like, well, was like, what do you like? What do you do there? I was like, oh, I find a lot of peace there. And she's like, oh, that is your Church. Mm-hmm. In a way, like you're finding that sort of connection with God, if that is how you wanna phrase it.

Yeah. Um, and I've always like thought of taking that sort of knowledge with me as like, you know, um. You can really sort of, I mean, think about the origins of Catholicism in dank basements, basically. Yeah. Like in the Middle East somewhere. Like

Yeah.

Those people are not in these grand cathedrals. They're in hovels.

Yeah. Hiding away. Like, yeah, you can build church wherever. And like, whatever that means to you, I think.

[00:44:22] Lillian Barkes: And I think that's like when you talk about like authenticity, when you talk about, um, you know, like. How to feed the soul. That's where my, my soul is fed. Mm-hmm. When I'm having conversations and opening up the word and exploring the word with people that I'm closest to.

Mm-hmm. Not necessarily someone that I have to like, shake their hand at the beginning of church and hope that they're not sick. You know what I mean?

[00:44:46] Michael Zarick: I, I do remember, and a drink after them. I think this happened. Oh, on the, the wine? Yes. Um, I'm not religious at all anymore, really. It's sort of just like, uh, definitely still a piece of me, but.

Um, I do remember junior year going to the National Catholic Youth Conference here in Indianapolis. Mm-hmm. And that was crazy.

[00:45:05] Lillian Barkes: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:05] Michael Zarick: Because you have you gone?

[00:45:07] Lillian Barkes: No.

[00:45:08] Michael Zarick: No. Mm-hmm.

It that is, it's national. So you have people from all over the entire United States coming and doing like worship together. Yeah.

And it was really cool to be. At that point in my life, like kind of young and just interested in meeting people to ha be like, oh my God, you're from Hawaii. That's so cool. Yeah. Like, I've never met someone from Hawaii. Like it's, I thought that was like really interesting. I actually think that either just happened or is coming up soon.

It did just happen. Yeah.

[00:45:33] Lillian Barkes: Yeah.

[00:45:33] Michael Zarick: Um, that's pretty crazy. Yeah. I actually think I was downtown when it, I was like, why? There's so many young people here. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:38] Lillian Barkes: And they, um, have the Pope come on and talk to them. Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's talking about like not using AI and stuff like that.

[00:45:46] Michael Zarick: That's funny.

Yeah, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah. Um,

thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Uh, I have one, well, kind of two last questions and then we can round it out.

[00:46:02] Lillian Barkes: Okay.

[00:46:03] Michael Zarick: Um, so every episode I ask a question from the previous guest,

okay? Mm-hmm.

So my previous guest, her name is Karly Keiper. She's a professor at Butler. Okay. She teaches, um, disability advocacy.

Okay. Her question is, what is something meant for disabled people that you have benefited from?

[00:46:23] Lillian Barkes: Oh my gosh.

[00:46:26] Michael Zarick: It's a hard question to think of off the top of the head, but I'm interested to hear you.

[00:46:29] Lillian Barkes: So I'm like a, you know, I'm a bike rider. Mm-hmm. Or I used to be a bike rider a lot. Um, that's how I would get to work and stuff like that in college.

Um, and not having to ride over the. What are they called? Like

[00:46:44] Michael Zarick: a curb? Yes. Oh, okay.

[00:46:46] Lillian Barkes: The curb. Yeah. Yeah. I, I won't go over a curb, like I need to use the mm-hmm. The, the ramp. I think they're

[00:46:52] Michael Zarick: called curb cuts. 'cause it's like dips down. Yes. Yeah.

[00:46:55] Lillian Barkes: Uh, that is a huge blessing. Um, and not just like, you know, because disabilities come in so many different shapes, sizes, and forms, and just seeing how.

You can go from not being disabled to being disabled in a blink of an eye.

[00:47:13] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:13] Lillian Barkes: I think, um, I was able to really witness like how infrastructure can really help support people who might be a little slower, might be a little, you know, my mother when she had cancer, like we had to use the. Little things in the grocery store.

Mm-hmm. And so, you know, she, like, she wasn't able to walk. Um, so just that experience and having to navigate all that with my mother really just kinda opened my eyes to how, how necessary those things are. Mm-hmm. And even as a short person, like if I want something on like. The fifth or sixth shelf I have to climb.

[00:47:58] Michael Zarick: I was at a store

[00:47:59] Lillian Barkes: to climb up the shelf.

[00:48:00] Michael Zarick: I was at a store in SoBro, it's called the Local Radish.

[00:48:04] Lillian Barkes: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:04] Michael Zarick: Um, the woman who runs, that's pretty cool. Um, but there was a woman in the store. She goes, sir, you're tall. That's exactly what she said to me, sir, you're tall. Can you check the price of that item over there for me?

I was like, that's so funny.

[00:48:20] Lillian Barkes: But it's gonna get to a point where I can't scale the. The shelves anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, that's gonna be like, are you gonna

[00:48:26] Michael Zarick: be like a stereotypical like Chinese old woman where you like shrink over time?

[00:48:30] Lillian Barkes: Absolutely. Um, I've also decided that once I get like past a certain age.

I'm gonna act like I don't know English anymore. Some people like, don't even try to talk to

[00:48:39] Michael Zarick: me. Do you know Mandarin or Cantonese? Nope. Nope. So you're just like gonna pretend,

[00:48:44] Lillian Barkes: but I whatever. If you're talking to me in English, I don't know what you're saying because I, I think like older people, they, they deserve that

[00:48:54] Michael Zarick: peace.

[00:48:55] Lillian Barkes: Yes.

[00:48:56] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:48:57] Lillian Barkes: And if they don't wanna talk to you, just let 'em be.

[00:49:01] Michael Zarick: That's so true.

[00:49:01] Lillian Barkes: Just let him be.

[00:49:03] Michael Zarick: I'm reading into your current, uh, personality a little bit. Are there times where you wish people would just not talk to you?

[00:49:10] Lillian Barkes: Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:49:12] Michael Zarick: Um, all right, well, that's all I have. I, one last question. I, it's pretty obvious what the question is.

What question would you like to ask the next Third Space Indy guest?

[00:49:22] Lillian Barkes: Do you know who they are?

[00:49:24] Michael Zarick: I do. It's tomorrow. I can't tell you. That's an important thing,

[00:49:29] Lillian Barkes: is can I know their likes and interest?

[00:49:31] Michael Zarick: No. I, I think it's more fun that way.

[00:49:36] Lillian Barkes: Okay. So on, um, when we met, Patrick was doing a recording about like downtown Indianapolis, like what's your tagline for it?

And I said, battle of the quarters and how there's four quarters.

[00:49:53] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:53] Lillian Barkes: And I want the next person to answer which quarter would win.

[00:49:58] Michael Zarick: Okay.

[00:49:59] Lillian Barkes: What the quarter is the best quarter

[00:50:01] Michael Zarick: as someone who lives in Broad Ripple , comma. And the person I'm recording with tomorrow also lives in Broad Ripple. I have no dog in this fight.

[00:50:13] Lillian Barkes: Well, okay, so like it 'cause it's all the circle.

[00:50:16] Michael Zarick: I know what you're saying.

[00:50:17] Lillian Barkes: Yeah.

[00:50:18] Michael Zarick: I live, so I live on the, um, I live on the west side of. I live on the east side of Meridian. Sorry, I had to think about it. I live on the east side of Meridian, which means that I would just pick the quarter that I live in. But

[00:50:36] Lillian Barkes: that you're

closest to.

Yeah.

[00:50:38] Michael Zarick: Um, but that's like Broad Ripple is so far away from downtown. Well, it's only

[00:50:42] Lillian Barkes: the mile square.

[00:50:43] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:50:44] Lillian Barkes: So it's like whatever's in that mile square. So, you know, uh, on the, on this side. Well, wait, how do you wanna face my face?

[00:50:50] Michael Zarick: Oh, if it's just the mile square, actually yeah. That's an interesting framing in that case.

I'm picking the northwest side where the State house is.

[00:50:59] Lillian Barkes: Mm.

[00:51:00] Michael Zarick: Because I not just that. And then you have

[00:51:01] Lillian Barkes: IUPUI. Yep. Like you have all that, have the canal and all that. And then, then the Southwest side, you have like Lucas Oil maybe, and like

[00:51:09] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Who wants that?

[00:51:10] Lillian Barkes: I don't know if the Southwest, you have Military Park, you have the museums, and then the southeast side, you have Gainbridge, you have the bus station.

You have. That vibe. And then the northeast side, you have the old north side. You got, um, it's Mass Ave in that miles, you know, like Mass Ave. Okay. Let me,

[00:51:32] Michael Zarick: let me actually rephrase my answer.

[00:51:34] Lillian Barkes: Okay.

[00:51:34] Michael Zarick: The reason I would like to pick the Northwest side is not just because of what is in and around the State House, but because to me that is at least a portion of it is the least developed part.

Of the four quarters and that, and as such, there is the most potential.

[00:51:52] Lillian Barkes: Mm. Okay.

[00:51:54] Michael Zarick: There's, you'll accept

[00:51:55] Lillian Barkes: your answer. I want them to throw block parties and I want, whoever has the best block party is the winner.

[00:52:04] Michael Zarick: You mean the four quarters? Yeah. Not the person I'm talking to tomorrow. The person I talk to tomorrow might throw a block party.

[00:52:09] Lillian Barkes: Yeah. There. No, I want the four quarters to organize a block party and then the city votes on who has the best block party and they are the winner.

[00:52:19] Michael Zarick: How did you get, uh, into this line of thinking,

[00:52:24] Lillian Barkes: honestly?

Okay. I was on Washington Street. I could have been like on my bike or running or something. And then there's a plaque and it says the Southeast Quarter.

[00:52:36] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:36] Lillian Barkes: And I was like, huh.

[00:52:38] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:52:39] Lillian Barkes: Like what? And you know, I've been to New Orleans, so I know like the French quarters. Yeah. I was like, okay, like what? What does this really mean?

And then when I really thought about our city and the history of our city and how we are so unique where we have Meridian and East Washington Street that intersect right at the middle, at the heart of the circle. Mm-hmm. Like.

Innovative, incredibly innovative, first of all. And if you don't know, the person that planned our city mm-hmm. Is black man.

[00:53:06] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:06] Lillian Barkes: Um, and we're a sister city with Washington DC and, um, just that whole concept, I'm like, why haven't we explored this more? We have the whole plaque dedicated to it. There's one in every quarter, so who's the best?

And maybe they get like a award. Why does there have to be the best.

[00:53:24] Michael Zarick: Are you competitive in nature?

[00:53:25] Lillian Barkes: I love a, I love a little bit of competition and you know, I love, I love, we're too late

[00:53:29] Michael Zarick: in the podcast to get into this.

[00:53:31] Lillian Barkes: I love our city. I love like mm-hmm. You know, I love bringing awareness and hype and like, you know, I think because our sports teams are doing okay, well, sometimes they do really well.

[00:53:42] Michael Zarick: The Pacers are unfortunately not doing very well because of a series of injuries.

[00:53:46] Lillian Barkes: Yes, yes. But they were doing well, and I think that could just be like a really cool way to, you know, like really bring people together. Mm-hmm. Say like, this is my quarter. Yeah. I love this quarter. Yeah. You get a, a star because you're the best.

[00:54:00] Michael Zarick: . Yes. Uh, great. Is there anything else you would like to say before we wrap up?

[00:54:06] Lillian Barkes: Follow us us on Instagram?

[00:54:07] Michael Zarick: Oh, yeah. I was gonna ask you, you'll do a shout out obviously, but yes.

Uh, outside of that, no, no, no feelings. Okay. Lillian Barkes,

[00:54:16] Lillian Barkes: thank you.

[00:54:17] Michael Zarick: Or Lily.

[00:54:17] Lillian Barkes: Lily as I Lillian.

[00:54:19] Michael Zarick: Um, thanks for joining me. Would you mind telling the people where they can find you?

[00:54:25] Lillian Barkes: If you want to find me personally, my Instagram is. Lily Barkes, uh, my li,

[00:54:32] Michael Zarick: L-I-L-L-Y period.

[00:54:34] Lillian Barkes: No, L-I-L-L-Y-B-A-R-K-E-S. Mm-hmm.

[00:54:38] Michael Zarick: Or as the state, the people at the ILEA meeting called you barks.

Lillian Barks.

[00:54:42] Lillian Barkes: Listen, you know, that's like a really trauma, that's a traumatic spot for me. I

[00:54:45] Michael Zarick: mean, I'm guarantee that happened in every single one of your classes growing up. Well,

[00:54:48] Lillian Barkes: it's not just that it's barks. Um, it's also that I'm Chinese and you know, there's always the joke that Chinese people eat dog.

And then, oh, people used to bark at me.

[00:54:55] Michael Zarick: That's messed up. So

[00:54:56] Lillian Barkes: it's like a triple whammy. I would love to change my, my last name, um, but yes, LinkedIn, Lillian Barkes. Mm-hmm. Um, don't f friend me on Facebook. Um, Listen to Our Future. Listen to Our Future.com. Listen to Our Future on Instagram. Listen to our feature on LinkedIn, and Listen to Our Future Inc.

On Facebook.

[00:55:22] Michael Zarick: No TikTok,

[00:55:23] Lillian Barkes: unfortunately no. I have.

[00:55:26] Michael Zarick: Why unfortunately?

[00:55:27] Lillian Barkes: Because we had one and then something happened to it, and then I made another one and something happened to that one, and now I just can't get into any of them.

[00:55:36] Michael Zarick: That's crazy.

[00:55:37] Lillian Barkes: Yeah, so it's fine.

[00:55:40] Michael Zarick: Listen to Our Future on all platforms except for one, uh,

[00:55:44] Lillian Barkes: not on X either.

[00:55:46] Michael Zarick: I think that's okay. In the year 2025. Yeah. If we're being honest. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. Thank you, Lily, for joining me on this episode you can find Third Space Indy on Instagram at Third Space Indy, or by going to thirdspaceindy.com, where I write a weekly blog that releases with the episode every Monday.

Thank you cityrising.org for sponsoring the podcast. And as always, thank you to the local artist Jennasen for letting me use your song Scared Rabbit as my intro music. Uh, once again, thank you as always for listening and I'll see you in the next one. Goodbye. Boop.