Ep. 33 - Keaun Michael Brown - Poet, Storyteller, Community Builder
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Intro
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Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
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Third Space Indy is supported by City Rising
Episode Summary
In this episode of 'Third Space Indy,' host Michael Zarick talks with Keaun Michael Brown, a writer, artist, and community builder from Indianapolis. Keaun shares his journey of using art and storytelling to heal himself and his community, driven by a deep sense of rage and unhealed wounds. He discusses his struggles, including financial difficulties and his mother's cancer, and how he channels his anger into positive actions. The conversation also explores the concept of Third Places, with Keaun highlighting his favorite community spots and the importance of investing in local talent. The episode is a heartfelt exploration of resilience, creativity, and the power of community.
00:00 Introduction and Personal Struggles
02:00 Meet Michael Zarick and The Third Place Concept
03:31 Introducing Keaun Michael Brown
03:59 Keaun's Role at Ujaama Bookstore
05:09 The Importance of Community and Art
07:47 Keaun's Background and Personal Journey
11:09 The Power of Storytelling and Minor Interactions
14:57 Reflections on Society and Personal Growth
18:01 The Concept of Third Spaces
21:31 Final Thoughts and Reflections
37:04 A Chance Encounter with a Stranger
38:08 Reflections on Identity and Perception
38:40 New Year's Eve Memories
39:10 A Heartfelt Gesture at Riley's Hospital
40:06 The Power of Stories and Empathy
43:59 The Concept of Third Spaces
46:14 Pigeons and Doves: A Reflection on Perception
48:19 The Changing Face of Charlotte
52:02 Investing in Local Talent
55:59 The Value of Individual Stories
01:07:32 Final Thoughts and Farewells
Episode Transcript
Keaun Michael Brown
===
Keaun Michael Brown: [00:00:00] I always say, we got enough soldiers, we ain't got enough healers. And I recognize that most of the things that frustrate me really come from unhealed wounds. We all carry as people. And that it's not my job to heal you as a person, but if I can identify what the problem is, I can heal the community of people around me and help prevent that problem from recurring again in the first place. So all the things I do, I'm so vigilant in them, I'm so like stand by them. But the art gallery just had cost $2,000 and I was dead broke 'cause my mom has late stage cancer to be dealing with. I was dealing with my own medical debt for earlier this year. I don't make a lot of money in my job.
I'm still out. I'm finish up last semester in college and Trump cut my Pell Grant, so I gotta scramble to pay for school. That two grand, I had to sell cookies every week to make that money happen. But I did it and I sacrificed so much of my energy when I didn't have much energy to give, because to me that was me like putting all the anger, and frustration I felt into healing a wound for my community and my people.
And that's how I grieve and that's how I process and that's how I heal and that's how I move forward is by, you know, healing a [00:01:00] wound that I recognize I never burn myself out by doing it. Because to me, like that's how I heal in the first place. If something pisses me the f--- off and I could either do two things, either shoot you or I could build a really dope art piece explaining how I'm frustrated and make people feel something.
And I kind of feel like life is better doing the second option. I come from the hood, I come from the ghetto. I, When I say that, people don't understand what it means. Like I grew up in neighborhoods that have higher murder rates than active US war zones. I've seen people like die right in front of me. I've seen everything in the book and I've just learned that, you know, violence, even when it is justified, even when it's appropriate, if you always lead with a bad hand, sometimes it's difficult to actually heal the problem.
at stake. It's cyclical. There's a need for it sometimes, but continued violence is always cyclical. So this is my way to heal people instead heal myself instead.
[00:02:00]
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick and in 1989, a man named Ray Oldenberg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. And in this book he coined a term called The Third Place. This describes a place that is outside of your home and outside of your work that you can go build community, be together with other people and just be, so, I've made it my goal through my podcast, Third Space Indy, to find people all over Indianapolis who are doing their very, doing their very best to build community here in town.
The person I'm talking with today, I met a couple months ago at the local literacy fest called Proof, and they basically lit up my world. They are what I would describe as the opposite of an energy vampire. They are a constant giver of good energy to those around them. And this week, uh, has been very hard.
There has been a lot of bad [00:03:00] stuff happening. We're, I don't know what day, it's like the 11th day of the year and I would say all 11 days were filled with bad shit. Uh, and I went on a walk on one particular day and was just like thinking, man, on Sunday I get to talk to this person. And that brightens my day a little bit because Good.
Regardless of how I feel about current events, I know that having a moment to speak with Michael Keaun Brown will, will bring me a little bit of joy. Without further ado, it's Michael. Do you go by I I've only called you by your full. I've only called you. Oh, Keaun. I call you Michael Keaun Brown.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah, you did.
You did. You did.
Michael Zarick: No
Keaun Michael Brown: Keaun my first name. The opening was so sweet. Let's keep that in as is. That was perfect.
Michael Zarick: Keaun Michael Brown. What am I doing?
Keaun Michael Brown: Yes, that's me. I had great question. I don't know. Um, uh, I know that means so much to me. Thank you. That's some kind of words. Um, yeah. I'm Keaun Michael Brown. Uh,
Michael Zarick: I was like, I called you Michael.
I was like, that is not right.
Keaun Michael Brown: That's what my mom calls me when she's mad at me.
Michael Zarick: Go, come beat your ass. Um, [00:04:00] Keaun, uh, is an incredible human, a writer, a an artist, an art lover, uh, and a community builder at Ujaama Bookstore. Um, and so I'm really thankful that he's willing to sit down with me and just. Hang out and talk.
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm, I'm really grateful to be here. Thank you.
Michael Zarick: It's
Keaun Michael Brown: cool.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. How you doing?
Keaun Michael Brown: Doing pretty good. Yeah. Doing pretty good. Weird starts of the year.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: Weird start of the year.
Michael Zarick: Are you a, are you a goal setter?
Keaun Michael Brown: Huh?
Michael Zarick: Are you a goal setter?
Keaun Michael Brown: Goal setter? Do I like set goals to the year?
Michael Zarick: Are you like gut resolutions or anything like that?
Keaun Michael Brown: I don't, no. Not really. Uh, I don't really do resolutions anymore. I think it's kinda like a weird way to be like,
starting tomorrow I'm gonna change my entire life forever.
That's not really sustainable. Instead, I come through the new year as like a progression of what I already was and what we'll continue to be.
You feel me? So it's like, it's not a hard set rule, but it's like, I was already, I kind of treat January like a 13th month. Does that make sense?
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: It's like an extension of the last year. What lessons was I already doing? And I continue to do and keep expanding on those, keep growing, maybe move things a little [00:05:00] bit, like a little bit further.
But I'm not really gonna be like, this year no more pineapples. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't really work because I'm stable.
Michael Zarick: That's funny. I, I do. This is actually a, a, a real recent issue is that I do treat every year as a zone individual thing.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm.
Michael Zarick: And that's why I've just had a total, like, lapse in productivity.
Mm. So I was like, uh, I don't have to worry about next year. That's a different part of time. And so, like, I texted you like the second day of the year, I was like, Hey, do you wanna record a podcast next week? It's like, it's like that was me reaching out to everybody that's, I didn't plan anything. Um, and I I, I do agree with your sentiment there, where it's like, it is kind of, I don't, I don't do goals that are like, read 10 books.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm.
Michael Zarick: Or like lose 30 pounds. Like those are hard and fast rules that if you don't achieve them, you just feel bad about yourself.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: But I, I focus on like directions. I like that. Or like, emotion-based goal setting.
Keaun Michael Brown: I like that.
Michael Zarick: That makes sense.
Keaun Michael Brown: That's code,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Um, yeah. I don't know.
Keaun Michael Brown: See,
Michael Zarick: [00:06:00] uh, so you. Can you tell me, I don't actually don't know the title of your role at Ujaama, what is the title of your role
Keaun Michael Brown: fan?
Fascinating question. I don't know either. Um, so when Terrell offered me the job, uh, I had several different job offers in the nonprofit space. Uh, 'cause all the work I was doing, but like, even though Ujaama was paying me like 20 grand less select my second lowest, it's real love, real community, real spaces of joy there.
So I took it and Terrell, my manager, when he offered me the job, he was like, Keaun, like I just want you to be you. And for you to just like, I just want Keaun. Like, I don't care what specific role you got. I don't really care what specifically you do. I just want the energy, I want the passion, I want all of that, and we're gonna make that work.
So in practice, I'm effectively like a community outreach coordinator. That's a basic way to describe it. But in official terms, my title is just like bookseller, but I just, you know, I help plan the events. I host the events. I do like, I do like some literary programming. [00:07:00] I do like a book club. I do like all the outreach I do tabling.
I do like a million other things that's not at all on my job description, just 'cause that's what he wanted me to do.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: So,
Michael Zarick: well, we were just talking about off camera and you, you're like, you're like, I pay to come to draft where we are.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And you're like, why don't I come here more? And you're like, it's 'cause I'm working all the time.
Like I'm just, and that just means like you're, and. Ujaama for those who don't know is a, can you, can you tell, bring your own opinion?
Keaun Michael Brown: Yes, I sure can. peak game, look at me right now. Uh, so Ujaama is part of FLA House. It's a nonprofit community owned bookstore. Um, it's part of F Fla House. We're the oldest black nonprofits in the state for like 128 something years.
I don't only know, don't shoot me, uh, but we're super dope Black bookstore. Come buy some time, buy some books, holler at your boy type. Uh, if you haven't been in two months or three months, this is your personal reminder to come in, uh, recently. But yeah, it's a super dope space. We have a lot of black history books, a lot of radical books.
A lot of books about like, you know, just like different [00:08:00] stuff. Unionizing, um, a lot of really cool like Latino history. This a super dope spot. Pull up if you're available to, it's all 24th and MLK Boulevard.
Michael Zarick: You have practiced that.
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm not really, I know,
Michael Zarick: I guess that's maybe what, uh, maybe caught my eye at Proof is like you just like throw it out there.
I love it. Ready to go?
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, and Flanner House specifically is like this interesting, like conclave of like family community center. Mm-hmm. Bookstore, urban farm.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: A, a, a and then there's, uh,
Keaun Michael Brown: therapy.
Michael Zarick: What?
Keaun Michael Brown: Therapy?
Michael Zarick: Therapy.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. They offer therapy services.
Michael Zarick: I need to investigate this more. Yeah. Every time I learn about it.
Okay. This is okay. This is actually really what I wanted to get down to is like, when I first met you, I was like, this is a high energy, incredible person who just exudes energy. And then I went to your, um, Paper Airplanes
Keaun Michael Brown: [00:09:00] mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Book club where we read, uh, where the Lemon Trees grow.
Keaun Michael Brown: As long as
Michael Zarick: the Lemon Trees grow.
As long as the lemon tree grow. Yeah. It's in my backpack. Something you would, you would think I knew the title considering I I didn't read the book and I showed up the book club. Um, and then I saw that you were calm and thoughtful and, um. I'm interested in learning about a variety of cultures. And then, uh, you and I have hung out a number of times and every time I'm with you, I learn something new about you that is like, who is this person?
I mean, so what? Yeah. Uh, or like you, you've, you've run like multiple, like art, um, I don't even know what you call, like, art shows.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, and just like, you're like doing, and now you're trying to do more art shows. Yeah. And you're trying to do more community outreach and you're trying to do more for Ujaama and you're always looking to seek how to do more, um, to have a positive effect on those around you.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, [00:10:00] and I think that is what immediately captured me about you is that like you are so, uh, vigilant in your, in your efforts.
Keaun Michael Brown: I really
Michael Zarick: appreciate that. When, when things that seem like I was actually talking with, um, I got lunch with Ruba Marshood, who's the CEO of Indy Reads, and I was like, do you ever feel like.
Um,
Keaun Michael Brown: like a plastic bag
Michael Zarick: drifting through the way. Uh, but like, do you ever feel like the work you're doing is, is not worth it? When you look, the time when the events that are happening around you, it's like, what am I doing? Um, but to see you continue to work, I appreciate and have an effect on those around you, I think is really powerful.
Keaun Michael Brown: I appreciate that. Yeah. And it's very hard to be honest with you. So I always say that like, um, well first off, it's funny, I'm actually an introvert by nature. Uh, people just think that I'm very high energy and I'm super social because when you see me, I'm on and when I'm tired, I, I cannot be found. I'm like, I disappear out the woodworks.
I got my [00:11:00] headphones on. Don't talk to me. I disappear like a ghost in the wind.
Michael Zarick: You dig? Dig like a small hole in the backyard.
Keaun Michael Brown: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Like a ostrich. I just, I disappear. Um, but, uh. I always say that like all the social work I do, all the outreach, all the art, all the writing, all the, everything really comes from a deep place of rage I feel in my soul.
And I, I wish I was kidding. Like I'm always pissed off about something. I am always like constantly angry about something deep down. If I wanted to, like I could get angry right now talking to you about I ice or talking to you about this person who pissed me off two weeks ago. 'cause they did something that just really replicated about how they haven't grown as a person.
Like I always have these things, these stories that make me upset.
Michael Zarick: Is there an individual behind that stage?
Keaun Michael Brown: Honestly, no. Not anything particular, but I'm sure there's somebody, if I thought about for 20 seconds, like a debut devil, my point is that like I'm surrounded by this frustration on this anger, and I'm a very, um, aggressive person in a way.
I'm not like I'm a big softy, uh, but I am like I've learned over my life to actually use the anger and aggression I feel for good. And my, my saying, I've told myself that I was good teenager is like, for [00:12:00] example, yeah, it pisses me off to see, um, let's say paper airplanes say for airplanes started because.
I was sick and tired of seeing predominantly white people, uh, on my campus read like Cast or the New Jim Crow or like, uh, Runaway Slave or like Nat Turner. And they'll be like, oh my God, I understand black people now. I'm like, no, you don't. Or people would be like, Black Lives Matter if I don't go south of 38th Street 'cause it's too dangerous or Black Lives Matter, but I don't know what collard greens are.
And also don't care to go look for a soul food spot because that's outside my comfort zone. That's outside my comfort zone. And I feel like people will passively read books about black culture and assume they know things and they actually haven't engaged in the culture at all. So maybe there were airplanes that pissed me off.
I was really mad about it. It made me angry to see people act as if they've done a great thing when nothing's been done, and then actively restrain or refrain from using resources to help actively solve the problem. I did a lot of stuff on my campus, like upper admin side, and I saw stuff like that all of the time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it made me very frustrated where they'll spend hundreds of thousand dollars on guest speakers and book clubs. And then a student will be like, [00:13:00] I idea to actually solve the problem that black students are facing on campus. They'll be like, no, shut up. Like you didn't know what you're talking about.
And paper airplanes came from that rage. It was that, like I always say, we got enough soldiers, we ain't got enough healers. And I recognize that most of the things that frustrate me really come from unhealed wounds. We all carry as people. And that it's not my job to heal you as a person, but if I can identify what the problem is, I can heal the community of people around me and help prevent that problem.
problem Uh, from recurring again in the first place. So all the things I do, I'm so vigilant in them, I'm so like stand by them. But the art gallery just had cost $2,000 and I was dead broke 'cause my mom has late stage cancer to be dealing with. I was dealing with my own medical debt for earlier this year. I don't make a lot of money in my job.
I'm still out. I'm finish up last semester in college and Trump cut my Pell Grant, so I gotta scramble to pay for school. That two grand, I had to sell cookies every week to make that money happen. But I did it and I sacrificed so much of my energy when I didn't have much energy to give, because to me that was me like putting all the anger, and [00:14:00] frustration I felt into healing a wound for my community and my people.
And that's how I grieve and that's how I process and that's how I heal and that's how I move forward is by, you know, healing a wound that I recognize I never burn myself out by doing it. Um, because to me, like that's how I heal in the first place. If something pisses me the f off and I could either do two things, either shoot you or I could build a really dope art piece explaining how I'm frustrated and make people feel something.
And I kind of feel like life is better doing the second option. I come from the hood, I come from the ghetto. I, When I say that people don't understand what it means. Like I grew up in neighborhoods that have higher murder rates than active US war zones. I've seen people like die right in front of me. I've seen everything in the book and I've just learned that, you know, violence, even when it is justified, even when it's appropriate, um, if you always lead with a bad hand, sometimes it's difficult to actually heal the problem at stake.
It's cyclical. There's a need for it sometimes, but continued violence is always cyclical. So this is my way to heal people instead heal myself instead.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Now there's a lot [00:15:00] of things that bring you rage and rightfully so.
Keaun Michael Brown: Uh, yeah.
Michael Zarick: God bless.
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm a black man in America. I'm a Afro-Latino Muslim in America with a disability.
There's tons of things that bring me rage.
Michael Zarick: What brings you calm?
Keaun Michael Brown: What brings me calm words? Honestly, like dirt and grime and like mom and pop shops and like music. I love like a rundown store like. I love, like authentic people, authentic stories, authentic genuineness. Um, that's what brings me calm. I love storytelling.
I love meeting people. I love hearing their stories. Like I said, I grew up in the hood. When you grow up in the hood, you oftentimes kinda get treated like a second class indication of Blackness. You know what I mean? I get treated all the time like I need to from other Black people leaving that, like that part of my identity holds no value and I only will gain value if I'm able to move away from that.
Like, I can't say nigga, I can't have an accent to when I talk, I can't be too abrasive or too aggressive, or I'm just a big Black man. I've done nothing wrong.
Mm-hmm.
So for me, you get [00:16:00] old all the time when you're a kid. You come from that, that your stories don't matter. But I grew up around tons of dope stories and people that have those stories have raised me.
Those stories shaped me to the man I am today. Happy stories, sad stories, embarrassing stories, dangerous stories, tragic stories, um, horrifying stories, joyful stories. That brings me calm to see. So like people all the time talk about stuff, I'm not dissing any spot in the city. Uh, I mean, we're in Fountain Square right now, for instance, and I love draft, but he will talk a lot about Fountain Square and Castleton and Broad Ripple.
And SoBro, and you know, I don't think anyone talks about like the type of neighborhoods I live in and the type of neighborhoods I love to go to. So I love just being back in the hood, going to my shops. Uh, shout out Ms. Lete's Injera Cafe up in the the Ville. Um, shout out, uh, Taqueria Mi Costa off West Washington Street.
Uh, shout out, um, uh, cafe Off 71st Street. They're valid. Um, spots like that, that are just filled of love and genuineness, and I know I don't need to be anything [00:17:00] else, or I don't need to be more than myself in order to be valued in this space. That brings me calm, that brings me peace. Feels like for one of the few times in my life as a Black man, I get to let down the walls and just be me and be loved all the same
Michael Zarick: banger.
Keaun Michael Brown: Appreciate it.
Michael Zarick: Uh, you're a writer,
Keaun Michael Brown: Uhhuh. Yeah. I'm a writer. I write
Michael Zarick: every time I'm with you. You say, I'm working on you. Go. I've been working on this for years. And then you just drop a bar
Keaun Michael Brown: because it's never done.
Michael Zarick: What, what's, uh, what writing's on your mind right now?
Keaun Michael Brown: Um, writing's on my mind right now is by my poetry project.
Uh, my first poetry chatbook, um, is gonna be out soon.
Michael Zarick: Say that again. Poetry. What?
Keaun Michael Brown: Oh, sorry. My first poetry Chatbook. It's like, it's like, it's like a mini book almost for poetry. Uhhuh, kind of like a zine, but a little bit like, uh, thicker.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Chunky.
Keaun Michael Brown: It's, uh, called, Sometimes I Think About You.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: And, uh, I'm really excited for it.
I'm really nervous 'cause I have a very unique writing style. Um, I write how I talk and I write just very, I don't write like traditional poet. And I actually hate most [00:18:00] traditional poetry. It's just not really for me. And I kind of write in a different way. And I'm very nervous about that. Like, people are gonna come up to me and be like, this is terrible 'cause you didn't use this stupid metaphor theory thing.
You're bad. I don't give a shit if they do. But there's still this weird fear of like, you know what I mean? Like you're scared of just being vulnerable with it, writing and being open, but I'm gonna every random
Michael Zarick: Are you worried that some random dude who's gonna pick your poetry book and be like, eh,
Keaun Michael Brown: yeah, kind of.
But then it's that. Exactly. But then I also don't care if they do. So it's a weird thing where like, I'm scared of the idea of somebody doing that or somebody actually did it. I wouldn't really care too much. But the idea of somebody do that is, is really scary. I don't know why, but I'm gonna drop and I'm very excited for it.
It's a collection of, of stories of people I've met, of things I've seen, uh, emotions I've felt. Um, like for example, there's some where it's one for example is called, uh, so the whole project called like Sometimes I Think About You. And, uh, some of the poems are like letters to people that I've met. Uh, our strangers I've seen, or people I've seen on the bus or whatever.
[00:19:00] One of 'em, for example, is called, um, uh, it's called To The Girl With The Curly Hair, and it's about a girl. I met this one time little girl, like three years old. And, uh, she, her mom, her grandma was with her and her grandma was black, but her grandma looked like high, yellow, black. And the granddaughter looked like a little like white baby.
I'm full white blo, blue eyes. She had like some green hair. I mean, I mean some red hair, but like full on white child 'cause her nose and 'cause the way her grandma was talking about, I could tell, oh, she's actually part black. And I wrote this like poem about her thinking that like, you know. I forgot how, I forgot most of it, but I know it ends like there's gonna come a time when the world is going to make you choose and you're never gonna feel like you're enough and you're gonna have to do all these things and people are gonna like say you're stealing someone's culture.
You're like, but I grew up around this and it's a part of you and that's gonna be your life. But for right now, that's just your grandmother and you lay your head on their chest. They feel the warmth. And like I'm talking about stories like that, that I've seen that there's so much value to stories like that.
And they teach you so much and you can learn so much from 'em. How to grow as a person, how to do all these things. How we judge someone based on their blackness, how we value someone based on their [00:20:00] identity. All these things we can learn and take away from them. And I think stories like that are so valuable.
We don't talk about them 'cause we don't think we are ourselves are worth enough to be remembered. So I love storytelling like that. Um, even though like, I don't get paid for this even though there's no grants out here for this type of work, even though there's no, you just gotta get out the mud. I be selling cookies and doing shallow bake sales to get the money to make these stories happen.
But stories like that really fucking matter to me. So I like try telling how I can. That's gonna be the poetry book.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: Very excited.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Yeah, you've lived in a lot of places.
Keaun Michael Brown: I have. I've moved a lot as a kid.
Michael Zarick: Where have you lived? Okay, list them off.
Keaun Michael Brown: Okay. Get ready. I've lived in six different states, Indiana, well, like long term.
Mm-hmm. Uh, Indiana, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, Delaware, New Jersey. Uh, for the most part, really only three of those matter. And that's Indy for like, I've been there for over a year. And that's Indy Jersey, North Carolina. Um, comparatively, it was actually in Jersey for a lesser part of time. That was for North Carolina Indy.
But for some reason Jersey [00:21:00] just really stuck to me. Like in my genome it was 'cause I started school there and then left it came back for high school for a bit. So those are really pivotal years in my life. It's kinda where the accent kind of stuck. Um, when I'm comfortable about talking like this, if I wanted to like.
Switch up and be normal? I can, but this is like weird and uncomfortable for me. So I'm just going back talking like a nigga. But, uh, yeah, so I moved a lot. I went to like 13, 14 different schools at some point. My mom's job and life. Crazy stuff happened. Yeah, it was definitely very hard.
Michael Zarick: Do you have friends from Sorry,
Keaun Michael Brown: do I have friends?
Full stop though. Actually. Do
Michael Zarick: you have friends from like,
Keaun Michael Brown: this, this jar of water's? All I got. It's my only love.
Michael Zarick: Like from grade school or any like, 'cause if you go to 13 schools, that's, that's more schools than there are grades.
Keaun Michael Brown: That is correct, yes. Uh, yes I do. But not from like, not really anything pre, like not really anything in middle school.
Well, I got one friend still from eighth grade and that's it. Most of my friends kind of came from like, I'll stopped talking to her. I had a one friend from freshman [00:22:00] year, or two friends from freshman year and a couple friends from Jersey still. And like one or two friends from high school.
Mm-hmm.
But, uh, yeah, I moved a lot.
It was hard. Not gonna lie to you. It was very hard, but in a way it kind of helped me. Um, because, so I was born deaf. Um, fun fact. Real. Yeah. Like Deadass. I'm
telling you, every time
we talk,
I live a weird life,
man. I'm a weird dude. Uh, I was born deaf. I went to the Indiana School of Deaf for a couple weeks.
They told my mom, this is a crazy story. I actually need to pivot, prepare for this. It's crazy. Um, so I was born. Deaf doctors talkin to my mom. He's not gonna be able to speak. He's cooked. Uh, it's over. Teaches do a SL, it's raps. Um, and the nurse followed my mom out to the lobby after the appointment and she was like, I'm overstepping.
I could lose my job, my license for doing this, but I think the doctor's wrong. Can you bring your son to me like once a week? I have a crazy idea I think might work. And this nurse, I don't remember her name, nothing about it, but it changed my whole life. Met up my mom once a week, to try out a new speech therapy thing she was kinda working on, did that about six months.[00:23:00]
And uh, alhamdulillah by the greatest of God, towards the end of it I started to be able to process sounds just a little bit and that was enough for them to warrant me to go to speech therapy. And that was enough for me to be able to start regular school on time. It was still difficult. Like I was in ESL my first year of grade school 'cause I couldn't speak English.
Oh really? And it was very hard. And for me, the biggest thing was I thought I could hear fine. Like, 'cause deaf is a spectrum and I could still hear sounds. I thought I was hearing fine. So like I would hear people like, you know, like water was like, and you'd be like, and I'd be like, oh that's what you're saying.
It's like you would look at me like, what are you saying? I'm like, I'm repeating the same words you're saying to me right now. Why are you looking at me like I'm crazy? Uh, just 'cause I was deaf.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: So yeah, I got disability until,
Michael Zarick: and it's funny, like words are are just
Keaun Michael Brown: sounds,
Michael Zarick: are random sounds. Yes. So if you hear it a certain way, like
Keaun Michael Brown: yeah.
You just assume that's just a word for that thing.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: Um, and that was kinda my childhood. So. I had a IEP in a 504 my entire time in grade school until I graduated. Uh, I [00:24:00] got disability checks from the government until like March of last year. Um, uh, I saw it's a big miracle and a blessing. My speech therapist told me that like, she has never met a single child in her entire, she didn't believe in me.
I told I was deaf at first, and I started saying terminology, you only know that like if you were in speech therapy for a while. She was like, I've never my entire life ever known a child with your condition, who could speak clearly. I still have to listen, but a little bit stutter. But she was like, but can speak relatively impeded.
She was like, I don't think you understand. That's not just a blessing, that's a miracle. You need to pick a god and pray tonight. And I was like,
Michael Zarick: How old were you when
this person told you
Keaun Michael Brown: I was just turned 20?
Michael Zarick: Okay.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Wait, are you, you're not still deaf?
Keaun Michael Brown: No, not really. No. Yeah. I'm like, I think when they did the test, I'm like 80% natural capacity.
Michael Zarick: Okay.
Keaun Michael Brown: So they actually took my ear tubes out for the first time, like, uh, a couple months ago. But I can pretty much have a normal life. My, my, my like headphones are a little bit louder. TV's a little bit louder, but other than that I'm fine. It's a, it's a crazy story, a massive [00:25:00] privilege. But yeah, I was deaf for a bit.
Shit was crazy.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. So you're like the neighbor that like has the TV up really loud at late at night.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that actually listen,
Michael Zarick: you're like, why is this guy such an asshole? And you're like, I actually can't hear.
Keaun Michael Brown: That is still me again, I'm totally fine in like most areas of my life, my headphones are always on max.
And I wish they were louder. I'm like, why are they not louder? And and my phone is like, max audio warning.
Michael Zarick: So my uncle has a hearing aid.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm.
Michael Zarick: He's not that old.
Keaun Michael Brown: They tried to gimme one of those and I refused.
Michael Zarick: My, my uncle has a hearing aid and he's like, he's like, Michael, it's incredible. He's like, he's like, when, when I wanna listen to music, it's connected my phone.
Yeah. It just goes straight in my ear. I can pick up, I can pick, like, I can answer my phone from the, from the hearing aid. He goes and I don't want to hear someone.
Keaun Michael Brown: You can
Michael Zarick: turn 'em down.
Keaun Michael Brown: Just soak. I really wish they were like that advanced when I was a kid. Oh, sorry. That's steel thumb.
Michael Zarick: They're. Is a re Sorry,
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm a muzzy.
What's up? Uh,
Michael Zarick: or is that your prayer?
Keaun Michael Brown: No, you, that's the call of prayer. Uh, yeah. I'll pray after this. Do
Michael Zarick: [00:26:00] you, do you regularly?
Keaun Michael Brown: Huh?
Michael Zarick: Are you practicing?
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I taught in Islamic Sunday school for a year and a half.
Michael Zarick: That's sick.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. I'm like muzzy as muzzy as can be. But um, yeah, so I wish they were more like normalized when I was a kid because they told me to get a hearing aid.
I was like so terrified of being a different kid. I like refused. I like kind of sabotage. Like I would skip out on the ESL lessons. I was scared of being different. I would like try to act normal. Um, it's kind of why I do my disability so like secondary now. 'cause I kind of spent my whole life trying to like act normal that I've just kind of like subconsciously believed the lie, even though I know I'm not, I know these things I gotta do to help prevent it.
But if hearing aids was like basis where back then I would've been like, please, they sound awesome. Like, my friend has a hearing aid and she like put one in one room. That way she could hear what was going on. I left to go to another and I was like, that's awesome.
Michael Zarick: That's like spy shit.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. That's sick as hell.
I wish I do that. I wish that you could do that. I would've been like, please.
Michael Zarick: That's funny.
Keaun Michael Brown: I'll take three of them.
Michael Zarick: What's [00:27:00] the, what's the most minor interaction you've had with someone that's had the biggest effect on you?
Keaun Michael Brown: Hmm.
Michael Zarick: I don't know. That just popped in my head.
Keaun Michael Brown: You say minor? How minor? Because I have one.
Michael Zarick: I don't know.
Keaun Michael Brown: Okay.
Michael Zarick: One time I, uh, so my brother used to live in San Francisco and, uh, San Francisco's very touristy. There's a lot of touristy stuff to do. So we went to, um, like one of the, on the, so it's hilly, and then on top of one of the hills there's that famous like tower. I don't know what any of this stuff is called, but I just remember, uh, just like randomly talking to a guy just like in the tower and my brother was like, you shouldn't talk to random people.
I was like, I was like, why not? Like, whatever, he just a dude. Uh, I think that like, that small interaction just like was like. Why, why do people just like not talk to other people, you know? Uh, what's the smallest interaction or minor thing that just like, has a long term effect on you?
Keaun Michael Brown: I have a billion of them.
That's kind of how I live my life is off this tiny interactions. Mm-hmm. I think less some small [00:28:00] of them. My mama, when I was a kid, she always, always say like, Keaun, I made a lot of mistakes in my life and I'm sorry, um, but I'm sorry. The things I can't teach you. I'm sorry. The things I can't do for you. I'm sorry that life is hard.
We're poor. She was like, but I need you to learn from my mistakes. I need you to soak up all the wisdom around you. Mm-hmm. She's always said, there's wisdom all around you. Please soak it in.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: You see, say it so much, you just get annoyed by it. But it really did change my whole life, my whole and my whole view of life.
So every minor interaction like that, I always keep it back of my mind. It teaches me things for life. But if I could think of one that comes to my mind, um. There was this, I was in Ghana, right on a steady abroad scholarship professor paid for my whole trip.
Michael Zarick: That's pretty recent, right?
Keaun Michael Brown: It was in 2023. So yeah.
Recent? Yeah. Uh, two and a half, three years ago. Professor pay for the whole trip. alhamdulillah I couldn't afford it anyways. It was like five and a half bands. He paid for it. It was really dope. When I was there. This one like Plaza Bizarre market thingamajig. I was buying this painting and uh, I was talking to this one like woman there making small talk.
And I didn't really feel like talking, but I was like, I'm [00:29:00] gonna talk. Uh, 'cause I'm in Ghana, it's privileged to be here. If you're gonna talk to me, its the, I can do was like, reciprocate that. Um, and we were talking just very minor, small talk. And then she was like, well, why are you here? And it was very obvious, I'm an American.
I was like, oh, I'm here on a school trip. Uh, you know, I have ancestral roots in Ghana, like every other Black American does. And I was like, so we're here to like do a thing. And she was like, oh, that's really cool. And she, and she was like, where are you from? Usually people ask me where I'm from and I'm out outside of the US .
I lie, I say, I'm from New York City. I used to live in New Jersey. They'll understand that more. It's easier for all of us involved. For some reason I was just like. Tell the truth. I did. I said, I'm from, I said, I'm from Indiana. She goes, oh, so you got IUPUI. I was like, what the fuck?
Michael Zarick: Just like pulled it out.
Exactly. Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: Without hesitation. This random, um, uh, she was from Benin, but this, no, sorry, she was from Cameroon. This random Cameroonian old woman in this rural market in Ghana just clocked my shit immediately without hesitation. And I was like, I didn't know what that [00:30:00] is. And she was like this random woman I was just talking to who I didn't think nothing of.
'cause like I was ready to go herself. She's a, she was a doctor that was, she is a doctor. Um, and she moved from Cameroon to the US and Chicago and then Gary for medicine and then to Indianapolis. And then her two kids went to Bloomington. Other two kids went to IUPUI. Um, and she's only in this random town in Ghana 'cause her old childhood friends.
Auntie is getting, her son's getting married. So because of that, she's there for the wedding that's happening tomorrow. And I, she just happened. I was like, this is crazy. And uh, I told her, uh, my day name in Ghana, which is Kofi. I told her my name is Keaun, uh, but the day name in Ghana is Kofi. And then she, there's other penny I really wanted to see.
I was like, oh, that's beautiful. I didn't see that painting, but I have number cash versus my cash in my luggage, so I couldn't afford a painting at the time. She goes, do you want that painting? I was like, yeah, I do, but I can't afford it. She's, she was like, that's not what I ask. I actually want the painting.
I was like, yeah, it's really sick. She goes, done. And she bought the painting for me and it was super beautiful and super [00:31:00] cool. And she said, and I quote, never forget this quote. She, and this is all in like a three minute interaction. She was just like, um, I'm not gonna do the accent. But she was just, I was racist.
Uh, but she was just like, Keaun or Kofi before you go, not even the moon. She said, not even the, she said, what did she, not even, the sky's the limit for you. My son, people go to the moon every day. I think about that every time I look at the paint, she got me on my wall. I think about that. That's a banger. It is a banger.
And then it was so funny when I was in the airport leaving again, different part of the country entirely. I hear Kofi Kofi, I turn around, it's her. And I was like, yo, what? And I gave her a hug and I never saw her ever again. And you know the interaction, yeah, it's a long-winded story. But that all happened in this span of like combine our, both of our interactions.
Five minutes. And it was the little thing where you keep talking to somebody a little bit more, even when you're tired just because you get good energy from them and you do so, and it opens up impossibly large amount of doors. If you want a real minor story. [00:32:00] Uh, one time that was
Michael Zarick: a real
Keaun Michael Brown: Oh, okay. Bad. Okay.
I dunno if it was too long. I dunno if it was too long. I dunno if it was too long.
Michael Zarick: No, no.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. I just have a lot of those. I remember one time when I was in the DR um, seeing. Uh, in this little, rural town called Gaspar Hernández, there's this little mountainside town and uh, my Spanish at the time was bad.
My Spanish is still not great. I'm working on it, but uh, I was there by myself. No one in the town speak English is do or die survival time. Speaking Spanish to the DR is very different than speaking Spanish here in the US .
Mm-hmm.
And I was walking across this road and this car and was like swerving and I was fine, but then the lady at the store I was buying snacks from for breakfast was like, Hey, tell me in Spanish.
Like, yo, I couldn't really understand. She started miming it out telling me like being careful because if you walk through there air cars like that time you were fine, but cars from flying up there, I don't want you to get hit. And she like walked out in like tight shorts and like a crop top. It was more and more and just berate me, but like with love of like, be safe, be stupid, idiot.
But it was so like familial and loving and I literally had 15 second interactions treated me like, she treated me like I was her own [00:33:00] son and I was just so impossibly kind. I have none of the stories like that every day that I live my life with that I love a lot.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. I think about like. Yeah, there's, there's an inconceivable amount of, uh, individual stories that people have.
Yeah. Like that's why I love the bus actually. 'cause like sometimes you just like randomly talk to someone on the bus and they're just like randomly tell you about their day or like, you get a little glimpse into like how they're feeling about something and stuff. Exactly. And there's just like an inconceivable amount of that on Earth.
Yeah. And I think when you, not to like tie it into like, uh, politics or whatever, but like when you look at it does, when you look at like a homeless person on the street Yeah. It's like that person has as many stories as you and I do.
Keaun Michael Brown: Exactly. And that's literally what shaped my entire life. My mom told me that when I was very young.
One time when we were in Kroger, this dude was, this brother was coming out with these roses. She was like, Keaun, I wonder if those are, I'm sorry flowers, or, I love you flowers, mom. Whatcha you talking about? She was, and mom has autism. She was like, Keaun. Every person has so much depth for them and they have their [00:34:00] own world and their mind.
I just wonder, you know. And I think about that all the time. Every single person I live my life with two main rules. Every person has the exact same amount of power. Every person has the exact same amount of stories. And what this, hmm, what this means is that, like, for example, I think everyone has the exact same amount of power.
I don't care if you're a CEO, a billionaire, um, a drug, lord, a kingpin, we all bleed. Uh, if a homeless man, if I really, really wanted to kill you, hypothetically, there's nothing you can really stop me from doing to make that happen. You know what I mean? Like, if I wanted to like be outside yo' crib at 2:00 AM in the morning or stalk your schedule, I could do that if I really wanted, devote my entire world to doing that.
Not can do it 'cause I'm rational person. But the point is that everyone has the exact amount of power. So everyone with the exact same of respect. Other thing is that we all have the exact same amount of worth in our stories. Like, I've met people, I've met prostitutes, thieves, hood niggas, kingpins, CEOs, billionaire not.
I've met billionaires. Not billionaires. Millionaires. Sorry, millionaires. Um. Every thing across the rainbow. Um, [00:35:00] and they all have beautiful stories. Some of the best stories we've known are from people who usually are down the cut from society. 'cause they really just want someone to listen and kind of be seen as a full person.
Um, there's this one lady, there's a, there's a really cool story if you don't mind. Uh, I was walking, this is up in Haughville. I was, hey, shout out the ville. Uh, I was walking, um, and off Michigan where my apartment was at the time. I think I was 18 at the time, sophomore year of college. And this lady comes up to me, I don't have my glasses on.
That's very important for the story. Lady comes up to me and I think they were broken and she goes like, Hey, whatever. I'm going through something. Can you like buy me a phone? It was a really, she was like, my daughter's in the hospital surviving a heart attack. You like, I need money for a phone. It was some bullshit and I was just like.
I'm a hood nigga. Like I know a lie when I see one. And I was about to just berate her and yell at her and make fun of her and curse at her just because I could [00:36:00] almost honestly just 'cause like, I was like, I have the power dynamic here. I could tell you, you fucking like man, like man, you're not gonna get me with that bullshit.
Might be better next time just because I could. And uh, you know, same way of like, if you see a grifter, you're gonna be like, dude, shut the fuck up. I was gonna do that just because I could. And I stopped. I listened to her partly out of amusement because I was like, I would see, I, I would see how deep of a hole you would dig.
And when I looked into her eyes, sometimes I just could, a vibe in a feeling. And the vibe just told me, first off, hold your tongue fuck nigga, and second off, like, keep going. And I was like, so you really just need a phone? She's like, I just need money for a phone. And I was like, fill me out right there.
I'll walk in and buy you a phone right now besides the big deal. She said, oh my God, that's perfect. They get so much. I was like, wait, what? I was like, O okay. I was dead broke. I was a college kid. I had no money. I had to do this on my credit card. And, uh, I walked into the store, she looked at the phones, was super excited.
I got her a phone. I got her minutes activated. I was like, oh, persons really need a phone. And I was like, [00:37:00] this person wasn't lying. And then she goes, okay, great. Now I can go back to Riley. And I was like, oh. And I was like, I'll walk you back that way. You gonna do it by yourself? And I walked her back. She stopped at the, she stopped at the gas station first and got some cigarettes.
Um, and then I walked her back to Riley's Children's Hospital. And she was just telling me all the stories from her life and what her position was. Right now she was homeless because the Ronald McDonald House was full. And she was like sleeping in the hospital and they kicked her out. She was sleeping under the bridge at the time.
'cause her daughter, she just gave birth to a daughter, was in the, um, she, her daughter had heart problems when she was born and she was staying at Riley long term. And they didn't have any place to keep the mother. And the mother couldn't stay with the child. It was weird. For some reason they wouldn't bet the mother with a child 'cause they were, I don't know.
And um. It was just a crazy situation. She's telling me about how her dad died recently, as much as where to go and everything's confusing. And, um, this really beautiful complex story. And then we get to the hospital and at this point I've already realized this is all real. I'm like, whoa, this is crazy. I'm very glad I ran into this person.
She goes like, and I was [00:38:00] like, curiosity? Why'd you like, no, she said something. She said, yeah, thank you so much. I knew you just looked safe. And I was like, what? Because back in the day when I was like 19, I got a picture for you. I was told at the time I looked too ghetto, too hood. Especially with my glasses on.
Like, I literally even told my manager at the time of the job I was working at, didn't see my glasses on one time and thought I was trying to rob the place. I was like, this is insane racist. Uh, but you know, I'm
Michael Zarick: dead.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah, it was, it was weird. Uh, this is like me, when I was around the, you used
Michael Zarick: to carry around a photo.
Oh, okay.
Keaun Michael Brown: That's my ID
Michael Zarick: Oh, you look, you look completely different.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Uh, gained some weight. Okay. But,
Michael Zarick: um, the, um, we went out for, um. For New Year's.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Um, to the Vogue. And we were with some friends, uh, Valentine and his friend, I do not know their name, but they're both, uh, Latino and they were like taking Latino.
They were taking photos together.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And they were just like sitting there like they wouldn't smile. They were like, [00:39:00] we're like, why are you like, like smile like you're having a good time. They're like, no, we gotta look hard. I'm like, that's what I think of when I see that photo
Keaun Michael Brown: got look tough for the fit.
But yeah.
Uh, I walk her into Riley, um, oh yeah. Uh, she tells me like, she, and I was like, that's funny you said that. I always get told all the time I looked dangerous. I threatened and all that. She goes, no, not at all. She's like, I could tell by your eyes you were safe. And I walk under to Riley and I'm like, miss, hold on one second.
There's an at m right there in the vending machine. I got her a pack of peanut m&m's. 'cause she said that was her favorite. And I got her, I think I only had like 90, a hundred bucks from name. I put 78 bucks, whatever. I put her like 60 bucks out. I said, here's this. That's all I got. And I got her the internet.
She gave me a big hug and cried and offered me to like walk up and go see her daughter. And I was like, thank you, but like, I need to go to class. So I was like, and I, uh, and I felt like at that point that like, I, I don't know, I felt like at that point, like I was overstepping if I did. So, um, I, I taken advantage of a person and I left and this nurse stopped me and she was like, I don't know who you are.
I don't know what you did, but [00:40:00] I know you just changed the woman's life. And she also gave me a big hug and I left and I just went to class. And I that a homeless woman for all intents and purposes who was begging me for money. That's, that's how it started. And that's when edit this beautiful story, um, of this woman who was down on her luck and just was her father died, had no other family support, just gave birth.
Um, like father's on the picture. Ronald Mcdonald House was full. They might have an opening next week, but until then, she's SOL. There's no support systems there to really help her take care of her child who's in the hospital in the ICU for a heart condition. That's a beautiful story. I would've never heard if I dismissed her.
'cause she was poor.
Michael Zarick: You thought she was lying?
Keaun Michael Brown: I did a hundred percent. Thought she was lying. Hundred percent. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I was holier than thou I thought she was capping her ass off because it's just, the story sounded too fake to be, it sounded too insane to be true, but I was just like, my hood nigga tenses aren't like hood nigga senses aren't tingling. Why are they not tingling? Why do I feel like she's telling the truth?
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: And then I was like, you know what, if you, I was like, you [00:41:00] relate, tell the truth. I'll buy you a phone right now. She was like, thank you so much. And I was like, oh. Huh.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: It was, you know, one of those lessons I learned when I was 18 of uh, just re reaffirming like kinda my worldviews now, just people where they're at, I still get, how can I come from the hood?
It just tell many lies, so many stories and not a lot of people will lie to your face, about random crap. But, um, sometimes you can see in somebody's soul that they're a good person and it's a little of help. It's not to me to dictate who that person is and if their soul is good or not. It's not my job.
That's God's, but that's why, that's why I give my quote is I give what I have, not what I'm willing to lose. Um, so after I'm good and I'm taken care of, whatever I have left over even if, it's not much I give what I have. And, uh, whether if I give a homeless money, I don't care what they use or not. I don't care if you go buy drugs and get a hit if that's what needs to help you out.
I don't give a shit. That's your money to deal with now. Um, I don't care if you need to buy, if you want, like if you, I don't care what you do with it, it's yours. I'm, it's not my job to be judge of you. And that's the way she kind of told me that I, she didn't need to tell [00:42:00] me her whole story in order for her to be deserving of help, but she did.
And it showed my own bias in that moment and how I need to grow a person as a person. I did a lot of stories like that in my life in the hood. So you talk about the hood not being nothing of value, you, I'm like, Hey, yo, that's isn't not a crazy story viewer right now. Isn't not a crazy story. I would never had that if I was in livin' up in the ville.
These places matter to me for a reason, and the people that matter to me for a reason. So I fight so hard now for it. I get told every day in college, man, I'm too this, I'm too that. This ain't how it be, whatever. But it's like, I know my people I know their struggle and all their stories are worthy of being told.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: Sorry, I'm talking that
Michael Zarick: No, you're, you're the guest. It's, I've been told that's better when the guest talks more. I've been talking too much. Uh, and I'm out of practice. Uh, I have canned questions. That's what I call 'em.
Keaun Michael Brown: Hit me.
Michael Zarick: First of all,
Keaun Michael Brown: have you drank out of this water?
Michael Zarick: No,
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm stealing it. This is a prop and I'm stealing it now.
Michael Zarick: [00:43:00] Sorry. Where's my, I'm sponsored. Hey, Third Space Indy is sponsored by cityrising.org.
Keaun Michael Brown: Do you have a sponsors?
Michael Zarick: I have one sponsor, but yeah. Yo, if you wanna sponsor, you can do it too. Um,
Keaun Michael Brown: this could be you right here.
Michael Zarick: This could be you. Mark Latta, founder of City Rising, uh, I sponsored the podcast. City Rising is a social impact studio that leads and supports innovative projects that strength and celebrate and repair people and places.
So if you're a people or you're the leader of a place or an organization that is interested in improving your lived or built environment, reach out to me or reach out to city rising.org and we'll get you hooked up with stuff that improves those things.
Keaun Michael Brown: A hundred percent do
Michael Zarick: w uh, but Mark Lata has sponsored a podcast or sponsored a question on the podcast.
Keaun Michael Brown: Ooh. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate you and your sacrifice.
Michael Zarick: Truly a sacrifice.
Keaun Michael Brown: I realize.
Sacrifice, honestly, I should have said help.
Michael Zarick: [00:44:00] Uh, what is a Third Space to you?
Keaun Michael Brown: The Third Space to me. Is a place, kind of how I alluded to earlier, is somewhere where I don't need to be anything more than I am to be valued. I think that's why I love the hood so much and why I take so much refuge in there. You know, and again, I'm not throwing shade at any part of the city, but if you throw me in like a coffee shop in, for example, Fountain Square, I'm not really gonna feel comfortable.
I'm not, it's not gonna feel like a third place. It's, it's not gonna feel like a Third Space to me. Um, it's gonna feel like someone somewhere is gonna tell me I don't belong, or I don't matter, or I'm not, or I'm too poor to be here. Or, or, or I don't fit the vibe or the aesthetic and I'm not supposed to be there.
You know what I mean? Um, even if I am, it just feels like I'm not, uh, 'cause of how I'm been conditioned my whole life by society. But to me, a Third Space is a spot where I can go in as I am however I am that day and still be deserving of love. [00:45:00] I think that's why I love the Tu Casa Cafe. I think that's why I love, um, Ms. Lete's Injera Cafe so much.
I think that's why I love, um, uh, what Wisangenni Pawon the Indonesian spot. You know, that's why I love like all little taco shops and hole in the walls and places that got like half a burnt down building. Um, and there's like a, and there's like a dog outside this little feral and there's like a rabid pigeon somewhere.
I think that's why these places so much because they reaffirmed to me that I don't need to be anything else but who I am in order to be loved. That's where I feel the most comfortable. That's I can get work done. That's if I can really unwind, I can put down all the pressure of the world away. Because right now in this space, I am loved.
I go back outside. The world's gonna be waiting for me. Anything can happen. I'm on the streets. Um, a cop can pull me over. Uh, ICE can shoot me in the face. Uh, crazy. Anything can happen and ruin my entire life. But right here in this moment, I am loved as I am. I need to prove myself to nobody 'cause I'm already deserving of love.
That to me, feels Third Space. A Third Space to me is not just [00:46:00] having a place to go outside of work, inside of home. A Third Space is to have a place to go, not just where you feel valued, but where your presence feels missed.
Michael Zarick: Ooh, ooh. Uh. thank you for that answer. That was really good. Also, you mentioned pigeons.
Sorry, total pivot. But
in
Keaun Michael Brown: fact, pigeons. Are doves the same bird?
Michael Zarick: I did not know that. Yeah. Okay. Well I was gonna bring this up. So pigeons, uh, I read a tweet or something that was like, like we look at pigeons, like rats.
Keaun Michael Brown: We do,
Michael Zarick: but the historically pigeons are like servants. to humanity. These are like partnership animals.
Yes. They were our messengers. Yes. They were pets. They were this like beautiful creature that we used to love and care for.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yes.
Michael Zarick: And now we've just like,
Keaun Michael Brown: we hate them,
Michael Zarick: cording them off to like effectively again be rats. Like we look down upon them and I think that's like. I really think about that.
Keaun Michael Brown: It's also wild.
And again, they're doves. They're the exact same bird. Um, that's crazy.
Michael Zarick: I
Keaun Michael Brown: actually did not, it's they're the exact same bird. It's same with our dogs. It's all dogs. Mm-hmm. [00:47:00] A pigeon and a dove are the exact same bird. The only difference is that pigeons have evolved to live in like industrial areas and doves live countryside.
Mm.
And we love doves. We think they're pious. We think they're perfect. 'cause they're like, it's kind of bird racism. We hate pigeons because they're grey. Yeah. And I also at a pigeon, and I'm unconditioned, think that's gross. And it's what? Why do I think that? That's really interesting.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: So like, shout out birds.
Shout out pigeons. Shout out doves. We want to come together and think, shout out by, uh, shout out birds.
Michael Zarick: We, I watched a TikTok this morning that was like,
Keaun Michael Brown: shout out Three Birds Cafe. I think it's called
Michael Zarick: Four Birds Cafe. Where is that?
Keaun Michael Brown: I don't know. It's a cafe that has birds in the title.
Michael Zarick: Oh, that's
Keaun Michael Brown: what they should sponsor an episode of the pod.
Michael Zarick: They, uh, I watched it like a TikTok this morning. It was just like different birds in their bird calls. And I just like, I love that. Yeah. Like, I mean, there's such a variety and like, they're all so interesting.
Keaun Michael Brown: Eagle Creek Park does birdwatching.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. We gotta get up early for that. Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: Another shameless plug.
You guys are missing out on amazing advertisement opportunities. This could be you, no p [00:48:00] promos
Michael Zarick: non an ad platform, but it could be, what if my entire podcast was just ads?
Keaun Michael Brown: No more guests. We're all, we're only corporate chills.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Um, we're
Keaun Michael Brown: interviewing Jeff Bezos this week.
Michael Zarick: Oh. Follow up to the previous question.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: What is a third place that has existed for you previously that no longer does?
Keaun Michael Brown: Oh man. There's too many to count. Um,
you know, instead of giving you specific examples, I'm gonna tell you a city. Um, I alluded to earlier that I mainly grew up in three different states, Charlotte, North Carolina, Indianapolis, and New Jersey.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: I make an active effort to never go back to Charlotte and it's because, and it sucks. I have memories in that city.
Almost every single neighborhood that I went to as a kid is gone.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: Completely gone.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: I mean, like businesses that were there for 60 to 70 [00:49:00] years, historic sites, um, all gone. All gone. They are breweries. They are expensive apartments nobody can afford. Um, they are like, Charlotte is not built for people who don't live in Charlotte, to come move to Charlotte now for people who actually lived there.
And I like, it pains me in my soul to go there now. I have not been back since. Only went for a few days ago when I was going somewhere else in 2024, I think. And before that it's been like three, four years. I made an active effort to not go to Charlotte anymore. And that to me is like, you know, I can give you aspecific business example, but I think that hits way more close to home.
Like, I mean, entire blocks, entire neighborhoods, whole everything. I know the old ice cream shop in my school that was there since the 1950s, um, gone, the famous taco shop that was on a bunch of TV shows, a small little hole in the wall, everyone loved gone. Um, the old park I used to go to after school gone, um, the [00:50:00] old apartment of him used to live in Gone.
The old house he used to live in, gone. All the old businesses off Plaza Road, gone. Everything in Plaza, Midwood gone. Sugar Creek now is super expensive. Um, the old mall is gone, the transit center, they relocated to like everything I love and knew is disappeared. That's what I kind of, that's why I fight so hard for Indy refuse to let that happen here because it's already happening here.
Um, but I never wanted to be as bad as it was with Charlotte. Charlotte, I think is an example of how cities like Indianapolis is trying to do with the stupid politicians here trying to make Indianapolis be like Chicago, trying to make Indianapolis be like the larger city than what we actually are because of the illusion that the more money we'll bring more good.
And I think that's a horrible way to city planning. The good way city plan is to plan people who actually already live here. Um, and then you plan off estimate growth. Um, instead of, what we do is we put a half a billion in tax payer money in a hotel that me or you will never be able to afford or stay in.
And that is not the people of the city at [00:51:00] all. All it does is make us another Charlotte, the only people who can afford the city is people who don't live here already. And I just, I can't let that happen.
Michael Zarick: Thank you for sharing.
Keaun Michael Brown: When I say I'm always enraged, it's 'cause there's stories like that in my soul at all times.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. I, I'm like mixed on the, on the hotel.
Keaun Michael Brown: I hate
Michael Zarick: it. Is that weird?
Keaun Michael Brown: No,
Michael Zarick: I mean
Keaun Michael Brown: it's totally, it's totally cool. You support it. Like,
Michael Zarick: I
Keaun Michael Brown: don't
Michael Zarick: mind. Yeah. It's not like, no, it's not even like support.
It's like, to me it's like a symbol of like, Indianapolis is still worth something. Like, it's like, oh, people see worth here and they want to invest in it at the same time. I'm like, there's so many other things that you could put this money to me,
Keaun Michael Brown: I hate it so much. 'cause I think it's, I think it's a symbol of how people invest in the wrong things in the city.
Yeah. People don't inve, people don't think Indianapolis is worth investing in. 'cause we again, don't have the typical, we're not Chicago, we're not Charlotte, we're not St. Louis. I don't know why we keep trying to feign the whole act of it. What that hap like, imagine if we [00:52:00] hyper fixated on a niche in the city.
It happens is some of the dopest artists I've ever seen in my entire life. What if we took, it's an idea of half for so long. If I ever get political power, I'm doing this shit day one. Um, what if we had a program in city. Where instead of us only commissioning artists when we need something from them, we had artists full time.
On payroll, give 'em 60K a year with benefits. And we say your whole job is to make art for the city of Indianapolis. And everywhere you hire 20 of 'em, it's not even that much money. It's like $1.2 million and now you have artists everywhere. Indianapolis would be a place we wanted to go if there was art everywhere.
Like, oh my God, check out, this really cool thing I went to, if we had festivals steamed around the city, if we had, you can use that money to give this place an identity instead. Instead of honing in on that push, what we already have, we hire artists who are outside of the city 'cause they have status and allure.
We lose people who are in the city who have good progress and they do what they're doing because they don't fit the bill enough, because they don't have the right criteria, because they don't have the right stats. They don't have to write on paper, whatever the hell we want. We try to keep feeding the allure of [00:53:00] status and the mirage of success that nothing actually gets done.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: No basketball player. That hotel is not going to change the basketball player's mind from going to LA versus going to Indianapolis. And I think that if we just put enough of them, they will. Does it matter? What does that person bring to the city? Real speaking taxes. These, you don't live in Indy anyway.
People live in the burbs. Okay, well maybe like, well, maybe of some of their money. You'll get more objectively you'll get more money if you invest people of this city and they're doing better than if you have to do something else entirely. It's like in hospitals where they won't pay nurses what they're worth.
Shout out nurses instead, they hire travel nurses at like one and a half times the price and or double. They're like, this is a great solution to the problem. No nigga, you're actively outside of all my emotions, you're actively making bad business decisions. And this is stupid and dumb and you should feel bad for yourself.
You are bad at your job. Um, and like, you should not have a job anymore. It's crazy to me that because you're just old, [00:54:00] you could be six years old and be, I have experienced, therefore I should be the mayor. Okay, you're so bad at your job. Um, these things are not done. Instead, we're just actively Lemme stop.
Let you stop. I'm bad.
Michael Zarick: Uh, I believe Ireland. Sorry, I'm bouncing off what you said. I, I wish I could match your energy. I apologize. Um, in Ireland, they have like a paid artist program. Do you know that?
Keaun Michael Brown: I did not know that.
Michael Zarick: And I believe they have done the calculations and it, it, if you're interested in, in obviously that up fiscal improvement, which a lot of people are, every dollar or whatever gives back like one and a half or $3.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Obviously
Keaun Michael Brown: it's just like, I don't know why people are dumb. Well, I, I know why they're dumb. 'cause they don't live here in the city. Don't actually exist in the city. Um, but it's like if you put, you know, what's a crazy thought? If we put public money into public resources, wouldn't that be wild? Oh my god.
Ah. It's like, yeah, nigga, if you invest in your people, they do better. [00:55:00] Same thing of like, if you pay your employees livable wage, they work harder for you. They show up more for you. They have more time to care about the work that they're doing in the first place. Um, it's just like, yeah, if you invest in the art scene of the city.
People do better. People love art. Um,
Michael Zarick: well there's the like, people are always like, oh, we don't have a Van Gogh, we don't have a Picasso anymore. But it's like, you know, van Gogh was like a paid artist, like that guy dude. Yeah. Committed his life to art
Keaun Michael Brown: and also he died poor and un and unrecognized. Exactly.
And you, you guys only loved him after he died because thought he was cool. It, I think it's the same thing for stuff from the city. When we love cool stuff after it's gone and we go, oh man, that place was really neat. That person was really cool. Kwazar Martin's dope as shit. If he moved to New York City tomorrow, it'd be like, oh man, remember Kwazar?
His work was super cool. Did you guys invest in him while he was here? No. Like there's this whole fascination with the status of someone's name or the status of someone's imagery instead of investing in random ass people right now. Because it's the random ass niggas. No one thinks is worth anything.
They're the ones who are gonna be special. In my [00:56:00] lifetime, I have been, I got rejected from 25 outta 27 schools I applied to. No school wanted me, no college wanted me.
Mm-hmm.
I have been told from doctors that I was going to die, that I was deaf. I could never hear or speak that I was, I, my test scores have said I was stupid, even though I was gonna skip three grades, like I've been, I've, I'm a, I never fit the bill on paper.
One time the director of education at Stark Neuroscience met me, says, we're gonna do three or three migraines out at the time. He said, you were the most brilliant undergrad student I've ever met in my entire life, and one of the most brilliant students I've ever met in all my PhD programs. Period. Why didn't you apply to our summer program you would've been a great fit for, and I said, I did.
I didn't meet the GPA requirement. He said, what do you email us after sent you? Would he gave it to you? I said, I did. You guys told me, no exceptions to the rule. He was like, damn. And I say all this and say that like. We only, we never care about the worth of a person. We just care about the worth of the value of their name or of their status.
We think that'll make us feel better. Mm-hmm. Or think that it'll make us worthy of being loved if we just invested and regular ass [00:57:00] people before they ever hit anything of status. Like me, I always say all the time, I am just a product that people's kindness, people sometimes be like, oh, Keaun. Like, man, you're so smart.
You were always gonna make it out. You da da. It's like, no nigga, people invest in me when I had no reason to. Professors paid for me to go abroad. Scholarships gave me scholarships, but no one else did. Yeah. Um, people saw this random ass kid out of pot pissing who was shy and quiet as hell and spoke two times in class all year.
And they said, that's a kid worth invested in before I hit any of the metrics. And that's why I'm the man I am right now. And there's a million people out there just like me, who the world said they don't have value and they never invested in them. There's a million Van Goghs in the hood right now. We ain't never going to see 'cause that side of town's too dangerous and those people can't get it right.
And why put money there? We put money in Broad Ripple instead, or Caston or Fallon Square or all these, I'm not gonna say these neighborhoods, again, it's not their fault, but why invest in these places in town? No one cares about when they're poor. So we can put energy to other places. And then those people, they [00:58:00] leave.
They leave. Same reason why IU right now is facing a massive p of a massive student shortage. 'cause they're trying to out-compete Budler and U Indy and like Notre Dame for students in Carmel. You're never gonna win that fight. No one wants to go to IUI. No one wants to go to Indianapolis. People who live here want you stay here though.
You, you invest in them. You go to Christian ats, you go to Northwest, you go to all the local spots. We got say we don't do that because they don't fool prestigious enough. And that's shit that pisses me off.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: Because people think that I'm the exception to that rule. People think when they meet me that because I'm really smart, because I, of all these things I've done, 'cause I have all these titles, whatever the fuck, because I've done so much.
They're like, I'm different from everybody else though. That're like, well, yeah, Keaun, but like, you know, you are one of the good ones. You're the success story. You're different. It's like, no, me and ol' bro on the corner are the exact same. Three years ago, if you met us both, you would've both thought we was not worth shit.
Michael Zarick: I saw your id.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Yeah. You saw my id. I was, uh, and that being said, it's like that's why every single person observing a love [00:59:00] as they are.
Michael Zarick: Sorry, I'm thinking about like,
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm mad.
Michael Zarick: Well, no, you made me think about Jack Harlow. So like, you know Jack Harlow? Yeah. He
Keaun Michael Brown: was ugly as shit as a kid. And lame ass rapper. Harlow.
Michael Zarick: So he's, he's a year older than me.
Keaun Michael Brown: Is he? Mm-hmm. He's that old. No shade. I mess with him.
Michael Zarick: So he is a year older than me. He went to, um, oh no I can't
Keaun Michael Brown: school in Kentucky.
Michael Zarick: He went to a public school in Louisville where I'm from. Uh, and I definitely knew of him at the time. Mm. And it's like, but this is a kid who got clowned on. For forever.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: He would do house shows, but he just kept going.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: He just kept going, kept, kept, uh, rapping and kept going. And then, then he'd find success.
And then Louisville wants to claim him.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm. I knew a girl who,
Michael Zarick: and they do,
Keaun Michael Brown: they do all the time.
Michael Zarick: Uh,
Keaun Michael Brown: I knew a girl went to high school with him and she said Yeah. He was like lame as shit.
Michael Zarick: Uhhuh.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Every, everybody thought it was
Michael Zarick: was Jack Harlow corny white.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Uh, but then I think about like 4200Kory, this is somebody who is extremely talented.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And I think
Keaun Michael Brown: he just did a show at Ujaama last [01:00:00] night.
Michael Zarick: Really?
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Oh, that's, I meant to go to that you all did. I failed anyways, but I think of 41 Corey. And like that is someone who is clearly exuding talent, but is, I think, and he's finding recognition, but he is not finding the recognition he deserves.
And I think Indianapolis should look at someone like that and go.
Keaun Michael Brown: I think that's, I'm think, a direct failure of the city when that happens.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. He should be performing at the Pacers games, bro.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah, I do. I, I, I do not blame the president for that. I blame everything fucking else. I do not blame the governor for that.
I'll blame everything else. I blame the city for that. When you have dope talent, you invest in dope people, you refuse to do that until maybe they're either, they're either willing to, A, diminish their worth for us, or B, they leave and we go, can you please come back and make a cool thing? Like my Mike Epps, for example?
But Mike Epps, can you please this cool thing for us? 'cause you're Mike Epps and come back. You have a big name we never care about. There's dope people all across the city. Dope talent. There are zero excuses [01:01:00] why the mayor sexual assault mayor has right now, cannot be like this. 4200 kid is really dope.
We should make a program that helps keep local artists, Indy. Hey, 4200Kory, we could pay you money to keep you on salary to just make music and have it be free for all across the city of Indianapolis, that's who give the city a goddamn identity.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: That's who give the city stuff. People wanna go see.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Keaun Michael Brown: You invest in the people you got right here, right now. We're never gonna do that.
Michael Zarick: Who do you think Mayor Joe Hoggsett's that's favorite rapper is?
Keaun Michael Brown: I don't think the Nigga cares.
Michael Zarick: I'm kidding.
Keaun Michael Brown: I think he loves Macklemoore. No, I'm be,
Michael Zarick: there's no way.
Keaun Michael Brown: I feel like he will say he likes. Drake and Kendrick Lamar. 'cause he heard one song on the radio back in 2015.
But if you showed him a picture of these few people, he could not point them out to you by faces.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Keaun Michael Brown: That's who Joe Hogsett said. Likes to listen to the radio.
Michael Zarick: You doesn't call him Aubrey. That's like his fir He's on basis.
Keaun Michael Brown: You're actually best friends that go way back.
Michael Zarick: Uh, all right. Every episode [01:02:00] I ask a question from the previous guest.
My previous guest, his name is Michael Sweater Disco McReynolds.
Keaun Michael Brown: Shout out Michael Mc Reynolds.
Michael Zarick: He's a dj.
Keaun Michael Brown: Shout out DJs.
Michael Zarick: Let's say the world's ending tomorrow.
Keaun Michael Brown: Mm-hmm. Oh no. Don't like that bad.
Michael Zarick: And you're at your favorite third place.
Keaun Michael Brown: I love my favorite third place. Awesome. Good.
Michael Zarick: And it's, it's, it's going away.
I apologize. This is a little reflective.
So the third place is going away. The world, end of tomorrow. What is the, the last song you play that's a representation of this third place? That's a, that's a good reflection of your experience there. What song are you playing to close it out?
Keaun Michael Brown: You know, I try to think of a good song, the perfect answer instead.
imma give you the much like myself, the imperfect answer. The first song came to mind was called Ode to the Hood. By Ain't Afraid.
Yeah. By Ain't Afraid.
Michael Zarick: Oh Ain't Afraid.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah, they were hijabi Muslim duo, but they rap. They're really cool. And that was the first one I met. [01:03:00] Ode To the Hood. I remember the first line of uh, opens up, it's like we lock our doors up in the hood, but everyone is welcome into our village.
And I was trying to think of like a cooler Kendrick song or J Cold Track and that just kept popping in my mind. I think that's it again, like I really do. I'm a hood. I be through and through. I throw up West Side. Uh, 'cause it matters to me. And I think there's a beauty in how I live every part of my identity, the Black American side and Dominican side of me.
Because when we have so little, we share what we have not willing to lose. And that's a core part to who I am as a person because those who grew up around me and helped raise me in that mentality. And I feel like if the world's ending tomorrow, like it's my ode to the hood baby, I wouldn't wanna be at any anywhere else in the whole world because right now we lock our doors at night.
Shit gets scary around here. But everybody's welcome into our village. And in my Third Space, I have the privilege being able to do that. I think that's the song I play.
Michael Zarick: Last question. [01:04:00] Hit me. What question would you like to ask the next guest?
Keaun Michael Brown: I was a really stupid joke. Let me actually like it. Uh,
Michael Zarick: take as much time as you need.
Keaun Michael Brown: I think the question I would want to ask the next guest,
what is the most insignificant part of you? Sorry, lemme rephrase that. What do you think people think is the most insignificant part of you that tells the deepest story of who you actually are?
Michael Zarick: That's a hard question. The most insignificant part of me.
Keaun Michael Brown: That people think, you know,
Michael Zarick: that other people think,
Keaun Michael Brown: yeah.
Michael Zarick: That, that tells the most about you.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah. Like for example, I think for me, something you've already said, you're like, oh, this person's super high energy, this person's all that. You're like, wait, he's actually very calm, pensive, and thoughtful. Feel like people who see me when I'm on [01:05:00] whenever think about these other parts about me.
I think they, they would within the quiet, for me, it's significant 'cause the waiting for me to get back on, but it's actually kind of more allude to who actually am as a person.
Michael Zarick: Mm. Have to think about that for myself.
Keaun Michael Brown: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: That's hard. Uh, sorry, I have no, it might be hard to answer in the, in the moment too, but I, it's a great question.
Keaun Michael Brown: I can think of a different one if you want.
Michael Zarick: Oh, no, no. I'm, I'm, I'm really trying to think about it for myself. It's like, I wonder what, um. It also requires you to think what other people think about you.
Keaun Michael Brown: Well, I mean, I think maybe it's just in me thing because I'm a hood nigga I'm, but like, you kind of are always cognizant of the parts of you that people want to erase, at least for me.
So I'm always cognizant of the parts that people like and the parts that people want to take, and the part that people want to, like, pray for me. And the parts that I think, um, the parts that people don't care about as much, I think are actually the coolest parts about myself.
Michael Zarick: I think over time I'm just gonna, I'm gonna answer in what, well, the first thing that come to my head, um, when I was between the [01:06:00] ages of 17 and 22, every conversation began with, I'm a summer camp counselor. Here's a story from summer camp. Just and then would go on. But as I've gotten older and as more and more removed from summer camp, that is still a massive part of my personality.
Hmm. Still a massive part of my personal development, but I don't really talk about it anymore.
Keaun Michael Brown: Hmm.
Michael Zarick: Um, so I think of, if, if other people were looking at the, oh, that's like not a huge part of Michael's life anymore. It's a, you know, he carries around a water bottle. This is a, a Camp Piomingo water bottle.
It's all hidden under a bunch of stickers. Uh, but if I think about the way I move through the world and the way I think about other people and the way I treat other people and the way, um, it was a Y-M-C-A camp. So I still think about all the core values of the YMCA and the, the mission statement of the YMCA, which I can still rattle off because Steve Tarver, the old c the ex CEO of the YMCA of [01:07:00] Greater Louisville would always come and give $5, whoever could say it, and I was locked in.
Um, and so I, when I think about like what it means to what other people may perceive as a minor part of me. It's still a part of the greater whole in a, in a massive way. I think that's what I would say.
Keaun Michael Brown: I think that's per, that's exact. That's perfect. Like I be a camp counselor. You told me you were, I think, oh, it's probably some bullshits.
summer job. I would've never noticed that deep part of you. I just goes to show that like, people are always more complex. Everything they can be
Michael Zarick: every day,
Keaun Michael Brown: every day, every person, every soul
Michael Zarick: Keaun Michael Brown, thank you for joining me.
Keaun Michael Brown: Thank you for hosting me, baby. I appreciate y'all for listening. Tap in, sponsor the pod.
Uh, yeah,
Michael Zarick: he's not sponsored. To say that
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm not sponsored to say that you can't sponsor me. I will be a corporate shill.
Michael Zarick: I won't.
Keaun Michael Brown: I'm lying. I won't.
Michael Zarick: I I do think about like, what's my number? I don't know. We'll find out. I don't know either. I hope I find out. Um,
Keaun Michael Brown: phone number might just be Yaso. Like Yaso Goat curry and I'm good.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: That's funny. Uh, [01:08:00] where if you want to be found. Where can the people find you?
Keaun Michael Brown: Well, my jacket was over, my mic might
Michael Zarick: have messed up. The
Keaun Michael Brown: audio
Michael Zarick: should fine. You should be fine.
Keaun Michael Brown: Um, people can find me on my Instagram page. I'm making a website that's not done yet. Uh, or my LinkedIn, my Instagram page is Epsilon 1 0 1 underscore.
That's E-P-S-I-L-O-N 1 0 1 under pause.
Michael Zarick: Tell the people why it's named Epsilon. 'cause I thought it was funny.
Keaun Michael Brown: So my Instagram page is named Epsilon 1 0 1. I made it when I was like 13 or 12 or something like that, and I got super smashed, bro. It was first time on the 3DS and I wanted to go to a smash post tournament.
Even though I was really bad at the game, I didn't know what I was doing. And there was a fully grown adult, um, and I was like, I wanna be like a Greek letter. When I was in elementary school in fourth grade, I was gonna skip a bunch of grades. So they took me outta the classes and did like extra work with me.
For some reason, the teacher was obsessed with me knowing the Greek alphabet. So you're gonna need this the rest of your life. This is gonna be super important. I've never used it since I learned the Greek alphabet. And I was like, I want to use a cool Greek alphabet name like Alpha that's taken beta, that's taken [01:09:00] gamma.
That's taken. Epsilon was the next one that wasn't taken. So I made my gamer tag Epsilon and I made Instagram like three months later when I was 13. And I called myself Epsilon101_, 'cause Epson 1 0 1 was taken. And uh, since then I've just never, I was gonna change it because they were professional. My friend was like, I kind of like that.
It's silly and dumb and a little goofy and no one else gets it.
Michael Zarick: Just be glad you didn't
Keaun Michael Brown: made. And I also got a custom made jacket from Etsy that was a smash bros jacket for my birthday and it with my little work check. And it said, they called me Epsilon on the back of it.
Michael Zarick: Who's your main?
Keaun Michael Brown: Uh, and it had stickers of all my mains on the side
Michael Zarick: who
Keaun Michael Brown: it had Ness.
Pitt. And the third one was, um, who did I play in Smash for Nest Pitt. And I think it was, uh, Lucas are my three. Nest and Lucas are the
Michael Zarick: same character. Kind of
Keaun Michael Brown: not real different. Uh, it was, uh, no, it was, uh, I don't remember who the third one was. I think it was Corin. It was Corin. It was Corin. Corin. It was Corin.
And again, this is Smash Bros [01:10:00] 4. It was Corin Ness and uh, Pitt on the side. And it had the Smash Bros logo on the hoodie. And the back said, they called me Epsilon. And everywhere of my freshman year, they'd be like, why do they call you Epsilon? I was like, it's lame, don't worry about it. So I didn't have social skills at the time.
Michael Zarick: There's like three people listening to the podcast who even know what you're talking about, so that's okay.
Keaun Michael Brown: But yeah, sorry. You could follow me at Instagram. That's Epsilon101_ E-P-S-I-L-O-N, uh, 1 0 1 underscore. My LinkedIn is just Keaun Michael Brown. My first name is spelled K-E-A-U-N, Michael Brown's.
The rest, uh, you could hit me up. I post a lot of the events I do there. I'm currently fundraising for my next art gallery. Uh, 'cause again, or if you know about any grants, please send 'em my way. I'm so poor. I'm still trying to think of this outta of pocket, but the next artery Next art gallery is gonna be called All the Way Say I Love You.
It's a mixed media art showcase. It's a compilation of meals people's parents made instead of saying, sorry. The goal is to kind of showcase all different ways with love and feel and move and heal as people, especially in non-traditional immigrant and black [01:11:00] and brown households. So, um, yeah, that's me. I'm just a dude.
If you ever know any writing opportunities or art opportunities or anything, cool, hit me up. Uh, if, if you ever wanna talk, chat, you know what I mean, like throw a little bone around. I'm always down. I don't know what that means. Throw a little bone around, just holler at me. I'm always free and available.
Thanks so much for listening. Bye.
Michael Zarick: When when. Sorry. Total aside. When I worked at summer camp, there was a kid. I do not remember his name, but he was the type of kid who was trouble, but he was funny.
Keaun Michael Brown: I love it.
Michael Zarick: And so he would get away with it. Ah, so like one time, one time we were doing check-in at summer camp, and this kid just goes out.
So imagine like a gravel drive. It's just a circle. Mm-hmm. He goes out into the dri- and then all the, all the cabins are like back in the woods a little more. Uh, so he goes out in the gravel drive. These parents are rolling up and he takes rocks and pretends to like throw dice in the, in the, he's like, he's like squatting and pretending to throw dice.
And then the, the vice president of the YMCA walks [01:12:00] up and he just saw him. He didn't say anything to me. He didn't say anything to me. He just saw him and he like kept walking. And like five minutes later on the radio, my boss was like, Michael, can you tell, I do not remember the tell, tell this kid to like, stop pretending to throw dice.
Like tell stop gambling in the parking lot. And I was like. I was like, I let him do it because it was hilarious. There was a lot of that stuff where it was like, oh my God, he just got away with stuff. It was,
Keaun Michael Brown: that's so funny.
Michael Zarick: That's
Keaun Michael Brown: so funny.
Michael Zarick: Anyways, thanks for watching this episode of Third Space Indy.
Thank you. Keaun. Michael Brown, not Michael Keaun Brown. What the fuck am
Keaun Michael Brown: Thank you, Michael Zarick.
Michael Zarick: Uh, you can find me at Third Space Indy on Instagram or at Third Space Indy dot com, where I can't say I write it every Monday anymore 'cause I've totally failed that the last few times. But I do write a blog about every episode, and I do send it to you.
So if you're interested in receiving an email, go to Third Space Indy dot com. There are show notes, there's a [01:13:00] blog, and you can sign up for it. Thanks for watching or listening wherever you are. Thank you to cityrising.org for sponsoring the podcast. And thank you as always to the local artist Jennasen for sharing your music with me and allowing me to use it as the intro music.
Thanks for listening. Goodbye peace out ya'll and one love.
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