Ep. 10 - Ruba Marshood - CEO of Indy Reads
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Intro
There is something special about Ruba Marshood. I said as much near the start of my conversation with her. Prior to getting the opportunity to chat with Ruba, it often came up in conversation when I spoke about my podcast that I would soon get the opportunity to meet with the CEO of Indy Reads. If the person I spoke to knew of Indy Reads and, more importantly, knew the CEO, they would share near-universal and definitive praise for Ruba.
I am not certain this is something you hear of most people. Most people are given kind words and platitudes, but the people I met who knew of Ruba spoke with genuine and heartfelt reverence. I am a naturally skeptical person, so I wasn’t sure what to expect, but I am happy to say I felt a similar level of kinship by the time we were done talking for the episode.
It is my hope that you will feel a fraction of the kindness, vision, and personal respect I felt when walking into and out of Indy Reads for the first time. I hope that it inspires you to some degree to become an active participant, whether fiscally or physically, in the Indy Reads mission of “100% Literacy For All.”
“Literacy encompasses all that it can mean to be human with and for each other… And so absent literacy when we understand it — meaning the ability to communicate, and to have an idea, to put words to that idea, to be able to convey that idea, and then to learn and be open and curious to the other ideas around us — I think is how we both build connection, deepen a sense of togetherness and belonging, and get to co-create the world that we live in.”
- Ruba Marshood
Blog/Email Summary
Can be found here:
Links to listen
Links of references from the show
Production learnings
Story Time
What Does it Mean to be Able to Read?
A Minor Reflection on Heritage
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
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Important links and mentions
Books Mentioned
Production learnings from the episode
I would like to thank modern technology for making this episode possible. I put a lot of work into the audio files themselves to make this episode listenable, and I don’t think this would have been possible for me five years ago when I first started editing podcasts. I made two fairly large errors prior to recording.
(1) I forgot to push record on my hand recorder that I hold while recording (you can see me realize this and lean toward my laptop to double check I started the other recordings if you watch the video).
(2) I did not perform a proper sound check, and as a result, I was left with two audio files, one from my laptop and one from the handheld recorder, that were both woefully quiet.
So it is with no great joy that I admit I edited this podcast episode fully three separate times. One edit was performed until about three-quarters of the way through, until I realized some of the audio was entirely inaudible. Another edit was done with both files having fairly massively boosted sound. On re-listening, this left a rather annoying buzzing noise through the majority of the episode. So I reprocessed the audio with Audacity a final time to attempt to remove any low-end static sound.
There are a couple of things that happen when you boost sound to the level that I did. All sounds, no matter how small, become noticeable; additionally, sometimes audio can be distorted to an extent. I am very lucky to have avoided the latter for the most part. But I have done multiple passes on the episode to remove small sounds like the sound of a mouth opening before speaking, and the more prominent umms and coughs.
It is my hope that my work shines through in this moment, because as always, it is work, and the authenticity of my podcast is in the rustic mistake-making I highlight in this section each week.
One other note I'd like to make is that, upon reviewing the episode, I feel that I spent quite a bit of time talking about myself. That is not to say that I've never spoken about myself before. Additionally, I think the overall quality of the content is high. However, this podcast is not about me; it's about the ‘we.’ I felt that a little too much personal experience was injected. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if you read this and listen as well.
What Does it Mean to be Able to Read?
Please take a moment to look around the room and notice where words appear. Here are the things with words on them I can see just from where I’m sitting writing this post, and it is not an exhaustive list:
My driver’s license
A box of pretzels
Multiple notebooks and business cards
My water bottle
No less than 25 book spines
Various mail
Baseball caps
T-shirts
A CD case
Trading cards
and far more than it would be reasonable to write
Now imagine that each of these things is, in this moment for yourself, not legible, not understandable, and truly foreign to you. To have the ability to read is to have access not only to the books in the library, but to the human experience as we know it.
It is easy to take this type of thing for granted, just as we do walking, breathing, or existing. As of 2024:
79% of U.S. adults nationwide are literate.
21% of adults in the US are considered illiterate.
54% of adults have a literacy level below a 6th-grade level (20% are below a 5th-grade level).
And the stats above are not showing any of the individual racial statistics, which reveal an even further divide among what I perceive as acceptable.
People who cannot read are exploited every day. They cannot read contracts for home rentals, they can’t order from restaurant menus, and they can’t easily build a better life for themselves. People with low literacy are more likely to have bad health outcomes, be incarcerated, or even feel a level of social isolation. This is the reality we are living in here in the US.
“You think your pain and your heartbreak are unprecedented in the history of the world, but then you read. It was books that taught me that the things that tormented me most were the very things that connected me with all the people who were alive, who had ever been alive…”
- James Baldwin
To center this further on community and mutual understanding, we must also consider that reading is to view into someone else’s mind, frozen in time — a piece of themselves, whether fictional or not, shared on a page.
To read is to understand other people and to be “connected with all the people who have ever been alive” and so when I see that people are opting out of reading as an activity I can only think to attribute part of our current societal division to the unwilling lack of literacy and the on the other side a lack of willing participation in the act of reading.
The NEA’s “Arts Participation Patterns in 2022: Highlights from the Survey of Public Participation in the Arts” (SPPA) found that in the 12-month period prior to July 2022, only 48.5% of adults read one or more book for pleasure, down from 52.7% in 2017, when the NEA conducted its prior survey. The decline was greater than the drop between the NEA’s 2012 and 2017 surveys, when reading fell by just under two percentage points. - Link
It is hard to get a real measure of what the functional literacy rate was like 100 years ago, but what we do know is that there was strong civic engagement, participation in social clubs, and active debate about social issues, all surrounding the idea of literature and what people read.
Today, people still read, although it appears to be less and less common. However, there is also a lack of participation in membership-based organizations, where spirited debate, union worker movements, and developments in class consciousness might have occurred. Various third spaces that are continuously disappearing are just as crucial to literacy participation and a sense of communal understanding as the act of reading itself.
So I urge you, myself not absolved in this statement, to use your gift of reading to help foster an understanding not just of one thing, but of all things, and use it to help liberate yourself of ignorance, develop a true conscious understanding of those around you, and work towards a better future for yourself and others.
A Minor Reflection on Heritage
There have been two words on my mind for the past couple of months, one more important than the other.
The lesser is the word ‘ostensibly’ — defined as apparently or purportedly, but perhaps not actually — because often, when I speak of people, I only have their outward appearance to go off of. A common word to use when getting comments on my TikToks from people who are ostensibly aligned with me in values. Feel free to ask me about this any time.
The other word is ‘serendipity’ - the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way — because by way of this podcast, and by all appearances only through this podcast, I have experienced consistent unexpected joy multiple times a week. In the case here, I’m going to share how I’ve sort of reconnected to my half-Lebanese side of my heritage.
The day after I met with Ruba, on July 9th, I received an invitation from my third podcast guest, Khaled Khlifi, to go to lunch with the local Arab American group. As I mentioned, I am half-Lebanese, so I count! The invite took us to Batman Grill on 86th Street (I believe the person who runs the business has the last name Batman, though I’m not certain).
Khaled and I arrived to find no other invitees present. But we didn’t eat, which is unfortunate because the food looked quite good. Instead, Khaled received a text message, read it, and asked, “Do you want to go to Dr. Curtis’s house?” Of course, my answer was, “Sure… who is Dr. Curtis?”
The answer, of course, is that Dr. Edward Curtis is a professor of Black, Muslim, and Arab American history at Indiana University Indianapolis; he is also half-Lebanese. Dr. Curtis graciously invited Khaled and me into his home, offered to make us lunch, and provided good conversation.
As we walked in, I introduced myself, “Hello, my name is Michael Zarick,” and Dr. Curtis gave me a look like this 🤨. He replied, “Michael Zarick? Like the Zaricks?” to which I replied… “What?”
And so Dr. Curtis walked to the shelf, grabbed a book (that he wrote), turned to a page about halfway through, and said, “Read this.” Here is what the page said,
Ann Zarick and Women’s Leadership - Clickable Link
Ann Kurker Zarick was ready when she received the call to become a leader in Indianapolis’ Arab American community.
And a couple of pages after this one, here are the words I read again,
Healing Hoosiers for a Century - Clickable Link
In 1938, when Dr. Waheeb Salim Zarick died of a heart attack at the age of 43, the city of Indianapolis lost a prominent medical educator and one of its great Arab American leaders.
And so here I was in the house of a total stranger, by way of my podcast, who had done a fair amount of research on my family. Waheeb Salim Zarick and Ann Kurker Zarick were my great-grandparents, the parents of my Giddo, Joe Zarick. I had never met them and certainly did not know the extent of their impact on Indianapolis. Dr. Curtis spoke of them, Waheeb especially, with the same reverence that I had heard people speak of Ruba the weeks before.
Here is my heritage. Not just of being Syrian-Lebanese, but one of excellence, of intelligence, of love, and of community building and leadership right here in Indianapolis. Without any prior knowledge, I was already trying to live up to the legacy of my great-grandparents and have a similar impact on the Indy community at large, in my way.
Something I would never have known, if not ostensibly for my podcast, Third Space Indy, a book written by and handed to me by a stranger whom I now consider a friend, and for literacy, which allowed me to read and understand where I have come from. Serendipity.
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Episode Summary and Transcript
Episode Summary
Exploring Literacy and Community: A Conversation with Ruba Marshood of Indy Reads
In the 10th episode of the Third Space Indy podcast, host Michael Zarick interviews Ruba Marshood, the CEO of Indy Reads, an organization in Indianapolis dedicated to advancing literacy for all. Ruba shares insights into her background, her role at Indy Reads, and the increasing demand for their programs. The conversation delves into the broader meanings of literacy, the interconnectedness of communities, and the importance of writing and reading in shaping society. Ruba also reflects on the influential stories of her grandmothers and the cultural significance of food within Middle Eastern and Palestinian heritage. The episode concludes with a discussion on the power of books and ideas to create and unite communities.
00:00 Introduction and Dedication
00:52 Meet Ruba Marshood: CEO of Indy Reads
02:01 Ruba's Background and Journey
03:18 Defining Literacy and Indy Reads' Mission
06:30 Indy Reads' Programs and Community Impact
21:56 Personal Reflections on Reading
36:01 Cultural Heritage and Family Ties
37:47 Influence of Grandparents
39:08 Historical Context and Family Stories
48:18 Palestinian and Lebanese Cuisine
51:52 Arab American Identity and College Experience
54:04 Indy Reads and Literacy Initiatives
56:59 The Power of the Written Word
01:02:02 Final Thoughts and Reflections
Episode Transcript
Ruba Marshood
[00:00:00] Michael Zarick: Hey Michael here. It's the 10th episode of the podcast, A special arbitrary milestone. But before I begin the episode with Ruba I wanna dedicate this episode to a couple of people. Firstly, I'd like to dedicate this episode to both of my grandmothers, one of whom I mentioned in this episode, Mary Lou Zarick is still kicking in Cincinnati, but these past few weeks she has encountered some health issues. So please keep her and any of your own grandparents. Close to your heart. I would appreciate that greatly. I also want to dedicate this episode to the people of Palestine who now more than ever, need you to keep them on your mind and on your lips.
I'm so thankful for the opportunity to have spoken to Ruba a daughter of Palestinian immigrants, and I look forward to sharing this episode with you. Thanks so much for listening.
[00:01:07] Michael Zarick: Hello, uh, my name is Michael Zarick. This is Third Space Indy. In this show, we talk to people who are community builders, leaders and organizers all over Indianapolis who are working to make the places they live.
In Indianapolis better. Today we are talking to Ruba Marshood, the CEO of Indy Reads in Fountain Square. Uh, previously before 2021, when she came to Indy Reads, uh, Ruba was the partnerships and engagement person. Counselor Leader, Director. Director, sure. I don't know what the word is, of the Literary Council of Northern Virginia.
And it was the Literacy Council Literacy.
[00:01:52] Ruba Marshood: That happened a lot with that organization where it was literacy, not literary, but yeah,
[00:01:58] Michael Zarick: liter. I wrote literary. Anyways. That's fine. That's okay.
[00:02:00] Ruba Marshood: You're great.
[00:02:01] Michael Zarick: And then you're also, um, a Palestinian immigrant. Or were you born here?
[00:02:07] Ruba Marshood: I was actually, uh, my, yeah, my parents are the immigrants and I, I was born here.
Okay. My and my brother, I was immigrant.
[00:02:13] Michael Zarick: And then you're from the Northeast, like New Jersey?
[00:02:14] Ruba Marshood: Yes.
[00:02:15] Michael Zarick: Okay.
[00:02:15] Ruba Marshood: Yep.
[00:02:16] Michael Zarick: It's one of these things that I had to like, figure out that was not on the internet, I promise. Um, so I think that might play into, uh, a lot of your, I hope your personality is, uh, yeah. You're a strong, uh, outgoing woman, um, because of your time in the Northeast and then you also spent a lot of time in other places.
Yes. Um, though I'm not quite sure 'cause there's quite a few. Um, and then you also are bilingual? No, well, two and a half.
[00:02:41] Ruba Marshood: Sure.
[00:02:42] Michael Zarick: No, yeah, I was making it up.
[00:02:44] Ruba Marshood: No.
[00:02:44] Michael Zarick: Um, so, you know Arabic, Levantine Arabic,
[00:02:46] Ruba Marshood: yes.
[00:02:47] Michael Zarick: And then English and then the Papua New Guinea language, which I do not know the name of.
[00:02:52] Ruba Marshood: I, I'm just impressed by your homework.
Yeah, tok, Tok Pisin is, um, yeah, I haven't had to use it in a while, so I'd be rusty if you tried to, um, quiz me on that right now. But. Yep. A tiny bit of Spanish. Okay.
[00:03:07] Michael Zarick: And then we'll do it again. Assalamu alaikum, Ruba, how are you doing,
[00:03:11] Ruba Marshood: Wa alaikum assalam, Michael? Thank you for having me. Um, excited to be here.
[00:03:18] Michael Zarick: Yeah, why don't you, uh, actually, I, what I really wanna start off by asking you is when I first reached out to Sam Ferrante, who is the comms director of Indy Reads, she asked me a very poignant question, which has been on my mind since she asked me, which is, are you a reader?
Um, and I, that sent me spiraling 'cause I answered no. And then she told me about your students here and how many of them consider themselves readers despite being like, you know, struggling to read.
[00:03:50] Ruba Marshood: Hmm.
[00:03:50] Michael Zarick: And I, uh, it really sent me, um, so then I made it my goal to read a couple of books before we talked. So
So, in your own words. What does it mean to be a reader?
[00:04:04] Ruba Marshood: Oh, goodness. What a question. I, you know, I, and I think sometimes when we, you know, you, you shared with me how, how that question took you and, you know, are you a reader?
reader?
And my response would be a reader of what? Or in what way, right? Because I think every day book or no book we're reading, we're reading other people, we're reading our spaces, um, we're reading,
reading our experiences.
So i'm not sure if that answers your question, but when I think about being a reader and what Indy Reads is about, um, it, yes,
we read books. Yes, we, we learn to speak and communicate in English, and yes, we get to learn and read and engage with each other as people and as community members.
[00:05:07] Michael Zarick: That's a beautiful answer.
I like, I
I really like that. Um, because I, I think even outside of the like, uh, the concept of like literally reading like, oh, here's a book. I, I spend a lot of time like learning and, and trying to understand the world around me. So if you consider that sort of reading, I would say maybe yes, maybe I am a reader. A reader.
Yeah. Um, so I
I appreciate you, uh, giving me that sort of, um, self-fulfillment I suppose. Okay, so let's talk about Indy Reads. the reason I know about you, as we just discussed is I was just walking down, um, Street. Is that what this is?
[00:05:46] Ruba Marshood: Shelby, Virginia.
[00:05:47] Michael Zarick: Oh, Virginia Street. And I just saw the
Indy Reads sign
and then I saw the words 100% liter Literacy For All, which is a mighty task.
'cause as, uh, my wife works for. For the the local TV news. And when she writes scripts, I believe she writes them at a third grade level because that is what the average viewership can sort of understand. They don't use like large $20 words. Um, big, big long words because they're trying to appeal to the viewership.
And a lot of that sort of plays into your goal of, you know, the average person in the US reads at a fifth grade level. Is that right?
[00:06:28] Ruba Marshood: Below.
[00:06:28] Michael Zarick: Or below? so can you tell me about you and your work Indy Reads
[00:06:35] Ruba Marshood: That's a big que about me and
Indy Reads. Well,
[00:06:38] Michael Zarick: we got all day. Well, not all day. day. You
definitely don't have day.
[00:06:41] Ruba Marshood: Um. Well, I'll just share. So I came into this role, as you said, uh, the tail end of 2021. I grew up on the East coast. I'm the child of Palestinian immigrants as you, um, I think you just said that. And, uh, I worked in international development space. I sort of, I've always loved people and experiences and cultures and, um, had basically kind of come into adulthood with, with the idea, okay, how do I make travel photography, getting to know people part of my daily life.
And so international development was my first avenue for that. Um, long story short, found myself, back in the states around what I've been calling kind of the Obama recession era and feeling like I had been thinking globally, acting globally for a long time and wanted to think globally, act locally.
And I actually started volunteering with the Literacy Council of Northern Virginia while I was trying to figure out what I would be doing when an opening came up. And I was able to kind of move into that role and, and really, um, kind of 10, you know, 10 years later, you know, you blink. And I had learned so much about both sort of domestic, nonprofit work, community organizations, the work of building and, and moving an organization in a mission forward, as well as the, the field of adult education in the country.
Uh, certainly in the region. We were in the DC area at that time. and. 10 years later, I got a call from a recruiter who said there's a, there's an adult literacy organization.
[00:08:30] Michael Zarick: They reached out to you?
[00:08:31] Ruba Marshood: Yeah.
[00:08:31] Michael Zarick: That's interesting.
[00:08:32] Ruba Marshood: There's an adult literacy organization in Indianapolis looking for a CEO and I'll just, uh, confess that my first reaction was, you know, kinda looking around like, why,
Why why are you calling me? Like, I really didn't get it. And I thought, well, . Um,
[00:08:47] Michael Zarick: Can I interrupt you? I totally forgot to mention,
this is actually in my notes. Every person, every person I said, I'm going to Indy Reads I'm getting to talk to, I have the opportunity to talk to Ruba every single person has said a variation of Ruba is great Ruba is deeply intelligent. Ruba is like, you're the most complimented person on Earth. I, I had
[00:09:13] Ruba Marshood: That's very kind.
My goodness.
[00:09:15] Michael Zarick: I genuinely like Bill, Bill Brooks yesterday was like, he just hit me with like the, the accolades. So I promise you that, uh,
uh, if you don't feel that way, at least externally,
I think other people see something.
Um, and I'm learning in this moment. So
[00:09:33] Ruba Marshood: that's very, very kind and I, part of me wants to critique like, I mean what surveys, what survey data are you, like how many people are you talking about?
Because
[00:09:43] Michael Zarick: It you know, that could skew it was a minimum 10.
really?
I'm serious. I genuinely, um, still a small survey size. And also they may have been biased 'cause the people I talk to are of a certain, um, way of thinking.
but they all aware of Indy Reads and know who you are. So that, I don't know know that.
[00:10:03] Ruba Marshood: Well, that's very, very kind. Yeah. That's nice to hear. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That means a lot.
[00:10:08] Michael Zarick: Now if you take a small vacation from your work you may get into the community hear that more often.
[00:10:16] Ruba Marshood: We actually were closed last week for a week of wellness. Yes. I, Oh, I knew that. I knew that. Um, so, but I, I spent it in New Jersey kids and I went and visited my parents. I was not here here roaming the streets
[00:10:29] Michael Zarick: and
[00:10:29] Ruba Marshood: Definitely.
[00:10:30] Michael Zarick: you roaming different streets.
[00:10:31] Ruba Marshood: listening for what do people think about Ruba?
[00:10:34] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I guess you don't have that ego.
Um.
[00:10:36] Ruba Marshood: No.
[00:10:37] Michael Zarick: Um, so move less, uh, less selfishly. What, what's, what's Indy Reads doing?
[00:10:43] Ruba Marshood: um,
um,
so I got to know this organization first. Through, through that introduction, there's this organization looking for a new CEO and was at a point in my life where I wasn't. Um, and I don't tend to be really ever kind of someone to close doors.
So I was just sort of like, oh, let's see where this goes and come from a place of curiosity. Um. So so my first introduction was that conversation, and then I got to meet, um, a few members of the board who were on the executive search committee and found that, my goodness, this, this group of people really care about this mission.
Um, and I kind of promised myself going into those conversations that I was just gonna be completely me, uh, which sometimes is, at least in my experience, can be hard in a kind of job interview experience. and I thought, well, you know, here I am. And if they're looking for, if they're looking for a leader of this organization, they've gotta know who I am.
And, and if I wanna know if this is a fit for me, I've gotta be real. So I found that I was very welcomed, um, my perspectives and, and vision of what Literacy For All means, for example, um, were welcomed and so so got to
know the organization first through, through some of the people who help lead the organization.
and then
through listening, listening to our learners, um, listening to staff, listening to community patrons and partners, learned.
that Indy Reads is an organization that people really value because it's a place where they feel seen, they feel welcome and they feel supported. And, uh, that kind of goes across the board of being an organization that advances Literacy For All that has for over 40 years.
Been doing that through adult literacy work. And then for the last year, I guess close to 15 years now, through a community bookstore. What I found too is that our organization
organization long time, Was
sort of, there's the community bookstore and there's the adult education programming, and they were kind of what I would say, kind of two sides of the same coin that did not really meet or intersect.
And, um, what I, what I mean by that is, for example, our bookstore was on Mass Ave at the time. Again, this is before my time, but it was beloved. I, being here and, and walking around introducing myself and saying, I'm with Indy Reads. People would say, oh, I love Indy Reads. And they didn't know all that we did, right?
Mm-hmm. I, I, I would say
[00:13:28] Michael Zarick: I, well, I had that same conversation with Sam. I was like, oh, that looks like a nice bookstore. I want to go like, it looks like a good commu. I said, community space. And then she started telling me about the stuff in the back, which is where I was like, oh yes, yes. Cool.
[00:13:43] Ruba Marshood: Yeah. And so our, our community bookstore space was had been seen and is known as a community space, as a space with lots of, um, I'll say kind of literary arts and, um, conversation and dialogue and, local authors and artists and all of that.
And it was not a place, if I can be so clear about this, um, it was not a place that those who benefited most from our adult education work were seen. Um, and so people knew, either they knew our education, the education side of our programming, or they knew the community bookstore side of our programming, and they didn't necessarily.
See any connection or have any overlap and what we've been doing since we co-located here in Fountain Square and we have, um, kind of our, our main offices here, we have classroom space here and we have our community bookstore. So that allows real physical integration. But beyond that, there's a, there's a value and vision integration where, you know, as a student centered organization, we start with who are we serving?
Uh, who is the community that benefits most from literacy, education and literacy in a, with kind of really expansive definition, which we can get into if you're, uh, if you're open to hearing me about it. But, um, all to say we know that there's a reason why adults read and write below a fifth grade level of English proficiency.
We know that there's a reason why there are many immigrants or. Uh, multilingual folks in our community who are learning English as a new language. And we know that there are reasons why linguistic isolation is such a real thing, and that it often goes hand in hand with socioeconomic isolation, racial isolation, and segregation and marginalization and all of these things.
And so when we think and understand who we are serving, we then think about, how do we best serve and create experiences where those voices that are
heard the least can be centered? And so I hope that Indy Reads gets, uh, seen as a space that really centers, centers, the, the voices that we hear the least.
banger.
yeah. Did not go into our programming. I'm happy to do that, but that's that's gimme kind of what is Indy Reads? I I hope that that answers your
[00:16:24] Michael Zarick: programming is extensive, but gimme the, the 20 word, you know, the short, yeah. Okay.
I think it's pretty easy to understand. Well, you might feel
[00:16:33] Ruba Marshood: Well we advance Literacy For All. And what does that mean? Is that, well, we do that through, I'll say three primary pillars at this point. Um, community classrooms where we offer adult education opportunities for folks learning to read and write, learning to speak English from really the most beginning levels and beyond.
We're the only organization in the region that serves the most beginning, and beyond and all the way through earning high school equivalency, diplomas, earning some workforce certifications. we have our community bookstore, which is a space for everybody to. Connect and share stories and learn from each other.
And we have a workforce literacy program where we partner with employers and workforce training. So our workforce literacy initiative is where we with employers and workforce training providers who have found that, opportunities for folks to enter and advance in certain industries, um, are limited when folks surprise, surprise are struggling with learning to read, write, speak, and understand English proficiently.
And so we tailor curriculum and cons and instruction to help folks be able to more readily access and advance in those industries.
[00:17:52] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
I had just, I, I don't know why this popped into my head, is this 100% English literacy
or do you also support other languages? I recently went to Puerto Rico for my honeymoon. Shout out. Thank you. Uh, got married last year, but I was so inspired to learn
Spanish while I was there. And I learned that you do Spanish conversation hours, do you sell alternate language books? Yeah.
[00:18:26] Ruba Marshood: yeah.
So, So, 100% Literacy For All with English as the, um, I don't wanna say the goal, but sort of the focal point because of where we are.
[00:18:38] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:40] Ruba Marshood: And again, understanding who we serve. We have a beautifully rich, multicultural, multilingual community here at Indy Reads, and so we get to learn from our learners as much as. Our learners might be coming here to improve their English. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we have, we actually had, in my first year, we had some patrons come by who asked, oh, do you know, do you teach Spanish?
And today our Spanish conversation circle, uh, was, well, was born initially through questions like that, but more so when we connected with one of our adult learners who was, um, learning English with us. He's a literature professor from Mexico, and he leads our Spanish conversation circles, which are here in the bookstore once a month.
So if you wanna learn Spanish,
I
[00:19:32] Michael Zarick: will here.
[00:19:33] Ruba Marshood: Who better to learn from than
Professor
Victor?
Yes.
[00:19:38] Michael Zarick: oh, I'm so excited. I really, I have, I have apps. I have thing, I am, I'm locked in. Although I've said the same thing about Arabic and I only know like four words So, but that's four words is, uh, the start. Yeah.
[00:19:51] Ruba Marshood: And as for the books, you asked about books. Yes. So yes, we have, we make a point when we think Literacy for All, how does that show up in a bookstore? We have books that are available at every pri price point, including free or pay what you can. Uh, most of our books are provided really, uh, thanks to people who donate their gently used books to us.
Um, and we have specific initiatives to increase and expand the, the multilingual book inventory that we have, and certainly to, again, center highlight space for the stories and authors who may be considered more marginalized or harder to come upon.
[00:20:35] Michael Zarick: Right. Amazing.
[00:20:36] Ruba Marshood: Yeah.
[00:20:37] Michael Zarick: Oh,
I'm I'm coming Friday. Yeah, to learn to be a volunteer.
[00:20:43] Ruba Marshood: Oh,
thank you. how
Yeah,
[00:20:44] Michael Zarick: I'm, I'm, I'm hype. I'm so excited. I'm hype. Um, but, uh, for the people when this comes out in late July, uh, or or whenever they're listening, how do I become a volunteer?
[00:20:58] Ruba Marshood: Well, you can you come to a volunteer orientation session as you're planning to do
I am planning on, on friday.
[00:21:05] Michael Zarick: It's in the calendar.
[00:21:06] Ruba Marshood: Good, good. Yeah. We hold them at least monthly. Um, and you'll get to meet our Volunteer and Community Engagement Coordinator, Lee Bennett, who will introduce you to really all of what the organization does and our different programming, and then the different ways that you can be engaged
[00:21:27] Michael Zarick: and your programs go even beyond the store? I actually attended, yes, I attended Pride and Prejudice. Oh, excellent. At the Kan-Kan, we did a, a, book discussion afterwards. I had never seen the movie before. Okay. I read the book in college I, it all flooded back to me. I recalled why I, I really enjoyed reading
Pride and prejudice in college that it's so, so like, it's so modern and nice. Um, which gets me into, book reading. I wanna talk about book reading because like I said, I, uh, when I talked to Sam, when she asked me, are you a reader? And I said, no. I was like, one of my stated goals? I wrote it in a post. One of my stated goals for the year was to read, to better own beliefs. And I had failed up until this point, but over the past month I've read three, almost four books,
two of them in this past week. Um, and I'm gonna read them to you, read the names. names.
uh, the first one is The Disappearance of Rituals by Byung-Chul Han.
He's a Korean anthropologist. Is that true? I hope that's true. Uh, the second one is the
Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer.
Um, she wrote, um, Braiding Sweetgrass, which is another very good book
and then the third is Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut. And that's because the third one is because I talked to Khaled Khlifi who works at the Kan-Kan. And the Kan-Kan is named after
the Kan-Kan. that's in Cat's Cradle. have you read that not. Book That's ok There's like a, a fake religion in the book and that Kan-Kan is a, a thing in the book.
[00:23:14] Ruba Marshood: That's so neat to know. Thank
[00:23:15] Michael Zarick: I had some revelations about re both myself. And I want to get into that. Um, but about reading
while I read these books and I'm really interested to share them with you and I want to hear your, your thoughts as well. So, the first two I mentioned, the Disappearance of Rituals and the Serviceberry are both very centered on this idea of community.
Very much the theme of this podcast,
And how
we live in a time where we are so much more isolated from each other for a variety of reasons. There's a, a lot of it involves, um. Money and things like that. But I'm not really gonna focus on the reasons, but rather the, the, the solutions or like what I, what I've
learned learned these books. And frankly, a lot of that comes down to searching for connection the Serviceberry specifically, she
this term that I really enjoyed. In fact, I liked that one slightly better than the other one. Um, because it was more uplifting. She used this term of a, economy of gift giving
um, um, which I enjoyed. Um, um, and just sort of seeking out what we have previously, always known, which is that we are more, or, or let me rephrase, we are stronger as a community, as friends, people who who are together. Um, and that's something I really found endearing, and
I have such profound thoughts in my head, but it's so hard to get them out. doing great.
[00:24:52] Ruba Marshood: Thank
[00:24:53] Michael Zarick: Thank Thank you. And what I found while reading is that these
are things that I believed, but through reading someone else's thoughts as they put it on the page really doubled down on my beliefs and and was able able challenge what I believed while also finding a re-understanding of, what I believe. And that was like really cool and and topically. That's beautiful. Um,
[00:25:25] Ruba Marshood: and so happy for you.
[00:25:26] Michael Zarick: Thank you. You. you. And I'm, I'm gonna keep reading. So I, I mentioned this before we started, but I have this book, book, it's by Refaat Alareer and it's titled If I Must Die. Are
you familiar with this book
[00:25:38] Ruba Marshood: Uh, I'm familiar with his poem,
[00:25:40] Michael Zarick: Okay.
Um, and I'm gonna read that also. Um, and I was like, I wanna find, because I am familiar that he was an educator, a writer, a poet, all of these things. And he was, uh, killed by a, an airstrike in Gaza in 2023. Um, and I was like, I wanna find something in here.
'cause I knew he would write about it because he was an educator. about, um, what writing means. And I was kind of annoyed 'cause it's on the very first page. Um, you still
[00:26:12] Ruba Marshood: have
[00:26:12] Michael Zarick: further, you can't just stop.
Um, no,, there's more in there. So,
uh, he has a quote, um, on the very first page, which says, writing in general is an obligation to ourselves and to to humanity and to the future generations because it's usually the most important thing we, that we leave behind. Writing is most important sort of understanding When you speak to people, you usually choose words randomly as I have been in this, in this moment.
Um, but when you write, you think carefully what message you want to convey. And I, I, that immediately I was like, I first page. Um, Um, do you have thoughts about what
I have personally learned, um, and maybe about what Refaat said?
[00:26:58] Ruba Marshood: I do. I have, I have lots of thoughts. Um, I think, I think one of the best gifts we can give ourselves is experiences that help us better understand ourselves and each other. So, you know, listening to you as you reflect on the books that you've recently read and how it's open, that op kind of cr I wanna just say opened more of that for yourself is, is a beautiful thing.
Um, you know, I think about. And I, I agree with what Refaat said there about writing being something with so much intention. And I'll kind of counter as well that as human beings, we have been speaking for a lot longer than we have been writing, and we are social creatures. And I think the way that we understand, you know, to his point about con it's a responsibility to humanity.
Literacy
then is
encompasses all that, all that it can mean to be human with and for each other. And. We build entire civilizations through sharing language and ideas and coming upon some agreed frame of guidelines.
[00:28:42] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
[00:28:43] Ruba Marshood: and so absent literacy, when we understand it, meaning like the ability to communicate, let's just say, and like to have an idea to put words to that idea, to be able to convey that idea and then to to learn and be open and curious to the other ideas around us, um, I think is, is how we both build connection, deepen a sense of togetherness and belonging, and get to co, co-create the world that we live in.
[00:29:24] Michael Zarick: You such a way of words. I also wanna say when I was looking through this book earlier, and I was only reading the quotes and the poems mm-hmm. I was like, tearing up. There's some, it's, it's bad.
[00:29:36] Ruba Marshood: I mean, no, but when, when you brought it into the space, I, I teared up when I thought, oh gosh, we talk about this.
I, we might need to get some tissues.
[00:29:45] Michael Zarick: I hope. I hope not. so to continue, actually I'm gonna, this is also reading related. Um, there's another quote that I really enjoyed.
And it, it, is a political quote, but, um, the idea is I wanna focus on. and this is on page 110
Um, it says, don't forget that Palestine was first and foremost occupied by, in Zionist literature in Zionist poetry, and Hmm.
to me, this is interesting 'cause it relates to what I spoke on about the way,
um, the books I read sort of, um, reflected what I already believed, um, in the way that just. Books and ideas and the we share can invade your mind and sort of help guide your experience through life. Help guide your beliefs.
And I just, that quote specifically, makes me think about, you know, know, the importance of what you do here.
Mm-hmm. Finding representation finding ways to, for lack of a better term in this moment invade people's minds with, with stories people to help them understand, to help them find common ground and find a sense of, um, oh gosh, what's the word?
Empathy, and sort of similar experience. you find this on, uh, on TikTok especially, I just, not to like hard pivot.
but when you see people, I always like to talk about like the, the little kids in Africa who like to do tikTok dances. It's like, you see these, these kids who are ostensibly they live in entirely the other side of the earth. They live in an entirely way from you, but they are literally just like kids in America. They
just want to have fun. They wanna dance, they wanna have a good time. and so finding ways to,
under
find
That understanding I think is really
powerful. ,
[00:31:42] Ruba Marshood: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I, you know, to what we were saying before about feeling connected, We miss out on so much when any, you know, that, that, that quote, what is that? I'm gonna mess it up. But that quote about, nobody's free if anybody is like, our freedoms are intertwined. Mm-hmm. So for anybody,
I'm thinking of multiple quotes all at the same time. Um, basically injustice anywhere. Mm-hmm. As an injustice everywhere, right?
[00:32:17] Michael Zarick: I think that's the correct
[00:32:18] Ruba Marshood: That's it. MLK Jr I think, but
[00:32:21] Michael Zarick: it's hard to rip off the, off the dome. So,
[00:32:23] Ruba Marshood: yeah. Well, just in that same vein, so if, if Injustice Anywhere is injustice everywhere, inhumanity anywhere is inhumanity everywhere and, and dehumanization the same, the same goes for dehumanization, I would say.
And, We have, I wanna, I wanna say Western Society, America, but you know what I mean, it just happens, is that there's, there's a hyper categorization of people or of things and, and just hyper labeling. And, and this is this box, and this is this box, and all these things belong in different places. And I, and, and alongside that is a lot of judgment, a lot of, uh, frankly, racism.
Um, a lot of, uh, separation and, and compartmentalization and humanity doesn't work like that, or it doesn't have to. And, if we look at literacy as parallel to humanity or kind of a key aspect of humanity. I think that that point about connecting, about seeing these kids in Africa dancing and realizing, oh, these are just like the kids down the block.
Mm-hmm. Um,
Um,
that's something special that, that I I, Indy Reads, I feel like is, is especially poised to be able to do where in our lit stage open mic, you could hear from one of our Afghan students learning English can come and share about their favorite poem or folklore or, I, I was talking to somebody earlier today about food and how that kind of does, uh, has a similar effect of, of really like humanizing or, or creating common ground.
Right. Like your favorite cookie recipe. And thinking about this book and Refaat's story,
one thing that has continued a, a quote of James Baldwin's who.
That I've kind of attached to years ago and keeps coming up, especially when times are hard for me personally or, um, when I'm just as all of us are, you know, some can be confronted with the reality of the world that we live in and things that are going on that, that don't feel just, and don't feel safe, and don't feel healthy, and don't feel loving.
Um, when I struggle, I think of James Baldwin's line where he says, you think and I. It's not a direct quote, I'm paraphrasing. S okay, but you, you think your pain and suffering is unique in all the world. And then you read and in reading, you realize that your pain and suffering is what connects you to all people who've suffered throughout history and the world.
Right? And I'm so grateful to get to be in a place where I get to work with a literacy organization and, and lead its vision and, and direction and programming so that we can, at our best, help encourage the reading and writing of our world, right? Let's understand the world that we live in and let's together co-author something new and better.
Amazing. I wanna talk about, uh, well,
you're not Lebanese. I'm Lebanese, half lebanese.
and you are Palestinian? Descent Are both your parents Palestinian? so that means we are, uh, brother and sister by By, heritage. Um, I, for breakfast,
literally ate grape leaves. Um, which is maybe the most Lebanese thing I've done in the past, you know, five years. Uh, i'm
[00:36:27] Michael Zarick: I'm,
[00:36:27] Ruba Marshood: not, it's It's not, it's not common. It's not in,
not, I'm not, I'm not culturally Lebanese great. I am not. I I am only genetically Lebanese. Sahtain, anyway. Sahtain on your grapefruits, do you know
the
Sahtain sa no, No. Okay.
[00:36:41] Michael Zarick: You're over my, well,
[00:36:44] Ruba Marshood: it's okay. We'll get there please. That's
saan is, is to your health when Oh, that's beautiful for eating.
[00:36:50] Michael Zarick: I need that. Yeah.
[00:36:50] Ruba Marshood: Like bon appetit. Oh,
[00:36:52] Michael Zarick: really?
[00:36:52] Ruba Marshood: Yeah.
[00:36:53] Michael Zarick: I'm so excited. And
[00:36:54] Ruba Marshood: Palestinians, we say sa Saha is to your health. Sahtain is twice or doubled or we say it. We we double it.
[00:37:04] Michael Zarick: Dude, I wanna learn Arabic so bad. but I was was reading your, um, it actually posted over there, I saw it online. you did an interview with the South Side newspaper and you said two people that you the most in your life were your Sittis um, my Sitti Mary Lou, still in, uh, Cincinnati, going strong. Uh, Hey Mary Lou, Uh, Hi, Mary Lou. Um, Hi, Mary C Lou, or sorry, Sitti Sitti uh, Mary Lou Zarick that's my last name. and then Giddo passed away. You? Giddos Siddo okay. Yeah, slightly.
Um, so their names are Fatima and Hilweh yeah. Hill Hilweh okay. Can you tell me about their influence on you or is that too long of a, answer
[00:37:52] Ruba Marshood: No, are okay. You want me to be brief?
[00:37:54] Michael Zarick: Um, that's okay. Or it can be as long or as short as you want.
[00:37:58] Ruba Marshood: I'll, I'll try to be brief. It's sort of when I, whenever I'm asked, you know, like if you could have, if you could just spend an evening with somebody throughout right, in, in all of history, who would it be?
And I think of, I think of them, Sitti Fatima, my father's mom, um, she passed away when I was about nine, I didn't really, I only got to meet her once. So they, they both still lived in Palestine. Um, and I grew up here so, uh, in the States. So the first time I got to go over there I was seven and I got to, um, ride on my Siddo's back, I remember, and got to sit down with, with Sitti Fatima.
And, um, I just have a vivid. Visual memory of her. And I don't have much, we didn't have much conversation. Uh, and the story that I heard of her growing up was one of, she was a woman who was fairly young. Uh, she was a newly married and a young mom. When her, her first born was about two in 1948 when the Zionist militia came into Palestine, in their effort to establish Israel.
So it hadn't, Israel was not yet in existence. Palestine at that time was a British colony. And these militant groups would come into villages and, um. Kick people out of their homes. Take their homes, um, and scare them in every possible way, uh, with physical violence and or the threat of it. And my grandfather said Sitti's husband was taken hostage and there she was a young mother in her home alone with her 2-year-old.
And, um, these militants were coming through the village, kicking people out of their homes. And the story was, and my father, since this is what my father remembered. And so anyway, I'll just go with it because it's what I, it's, it's the story that I know. The story was that she had been outside the home visiting with her parents just across the way when she saw the militants were coming through her village and she ran back home.
Uh, 'cause she knew that. If they found the house empty, they would just take it. and the story was that she confronted militia at her door who came threatening to take it, and she stood her ground and said, you, you can take my life, but if you have to, you can't take my home. And for whatever reason, they, they walked away.
And I say it's the story because we've since learned that that might not, that specific encounter may not have actually happened, but it's what I grew up knowing of her.
[00:41:06] Michael Zarick: But even if it didn't to her, there may very well be another who had a similar or exact experience.
[00:41:14] Ruba Marshood: Yes, very much. Yeah, for sure. And, and it's not a story that's unique to the Marshood family for by any means, right?
I mean, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians experience this in, in the late 1940s. Um. And for my grandfather, who was her husband, you know, every day for about nine months, his life was threatened. The militant said, you know, we'll probably kill you at the end of the day. And at some point, for whatever reason, we, we don't know.
But he was released and, and it was only after that, that he could come home and, um,
reunite
with his wife and their baby. And then after that, my father was conceived. So I just wish I could sit down with her and as a woman, as a mother, uh, as a Palestinian, as a, as a matriarch, and, um, learn more from her courage and wisdom and for Sitti Hilweh Allah Yerhama(الله يرحمه/يرحمها), um, like thank, you know, God bless both of their souls.
Um, Hilweh. I got to know her a little bit more. She lived until my. Uh, a few months after my daughter was born, my daughter's now nine. Um, my mom's mama.
So her story is also one that kind of shapes who I am and who we are as, as a, as a family, who we are as Palestinians, I think who we are as humans. Uh, she was married, also a young mama in the late 1940s. She and her husband had welcomed their first born baby little baby girl. Delilah and,
um, as was known to happen, the Zionist militia, one of the ways that they created fear was to attack buses and commuting commuter buses. And her husband was on a bus on his way to work when a, um. Zionist militant went on a suicide mission and, and attacked a bus. And, uh, he was killed alongside, I think everybody else on that bus.
And at that time, family, uh, the, he was, he was in Abudalu is his last name. So his, the, the family, the way that, that families around then would help cope with the fact that there are now young widows was to keep the families together and have that, that widowed mother remarry another from the same family. she then married her deceased husband's brother and, um, their, their child together, their, their first child together.
Um. Well, their first child together was Wedad , and she, uh, lived till she was about two and she got sick and died. But then the next one was Miriam, my mom. Um, he, again, a matriarch. Uh, she did not learn to read, um, but she helped her husband with managing his books and, and the finances of the house.
And, um, you know, both of my grandmothers raised seven children each, um, uh, in a time of
of
a loss of national independence, uh, isolation and, and segregation of communities. Um, and, but I'll say too, you know, if, if I may, I know you wanted a brief answer, I think, but Sitti Hilweh
was, uh, she raised my mom. With the really a very human and a human centered ideology and, and way of being, which is that my mama remembers growing up and celebrating Easter Ramadan, um, Passover with neighbors and friends.
Like it was a very, oh, this is your holiday and this is important to you. I'm gonna bring a dish and celebrate with you. Um, and I think that that is a reminder of both what Palestine has been or had been and what it can still be and beyond Palestine. I think it's a, it's a little spark of what's possible.
Um, if we all share each other, share in each other's, share with each other, kindness and, and humanity and, uh, uh, appreciation.
[00:46:02] Michael Zarick: Don't worry about the, um, lack of brevity. I, I,
that was a far more in depth and beautiful way telling me what I asked than I had ever expected. So don't Thank that. Um, that was, was, that was wonderful. Um, actually what I did mark it. I did mark it. So I'm gonna go ahead and read the poem now 'cause
I, I just think it's a beautiful poem,
which is the, the namesake poem of
this book. It's called
If I Must Die, which is such a, a dark thing to say, but he is dead. um Yes. it says, I must die,
you must live to tell my story, to sell my things, to buy a piece of cloth and some strings. Make it white with a long tail so that a a child somewhere in Gaza while looking heaven in the eye, awaiting his dad who left in a blaze and bid. No one farewell Not even to his flesh, not even to himself. Sieze the kite my kite you made flying up above. And thinks for a moment. An angel is there bringing back love if
I must die let it bring hope, let it be a tale. And
he wrote that, uh, on November 27th, 2011.
[00:47:26] Ruba Marshood: 2023.
it was like, I think a week or so before he was killed,
[00:47:30] Michael Zarick: I,
[00:47:30] Ruba Marshood: oh,
do you remember
[00:47:31] Michael Zarick: it says, it says, it was titled 2011.
It was much longer.
Um, but it's a
beautiful poem.
[00:47:38] Ruba Marshood: It's beautiful.
[00:47:39] Michael Zarick: and just think makes me think about, both what you talked about, but also just how you you know, There's so much more to,
um, our legacies and the way we live on than, than just our lives. and how how it's important that we, we keep people like Refaat in our, in our minds. And your, your grandparents.
Um, Um, My grandparents. Yes. I need to call my Sitti my wife keeps telling me to go, um, uh, to go visit 'cause she's getting old. Um, sorry, I didn't mean to get you like that. No, that's okay. That's okay.
Um,
all right. right. Also, uh, important to Middle Eastern and Lebanese and
Palestinian culture is food.
[00:48:24] Ruba Marshood: at uh, always.
[00:48:25] Michael Zarick: Um, and I want you to tell me where to get good Lebanese in this town now real quick, Bosphorus is right around the corner. I have not been, but the Turks think they own everything.
They're still riding high, they're still riding high off the Ottoman Empire. They will not let it go. go. Is there a place other than Bosphorus to get that style of food?
[00:48:49] Ruba Marshood: I have to say, shout out to Bosphorus. Their food is good, Uh, but I grew up calling it coffee. Not Turkish coffee.
[00:48:57] Michael Zarick: See?
Um,
they think they own everything.
The, The cradle of civilization. They're like, oh, we baklava they made, uh, um, we made, um,
doner, Yeah, shut up.
[00:49:13] Ruba Marshood: Or maybe they inspired it, but we perfected it. Um, well, we, we could do a whole podcast on the different, the different, uh, battles there of like, who's his best.
Like I know Palestinian falafel is the best falafel, just hands. Yeah. And
everyone says that,
I'm sure, right?
Yeah,
everyone says that. Um, I do not have an answer for you being, having been here for three and a half, almost four years, I will say there's a, uh, there's a place called Albasha, I think it's in Fisher's.
[00:49:49] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. I I can drive to Fisher's. I was very very excited
[00:49:51] Ruba Marshood: when I came upon their, they have a market and a restaurant, and I confess, I haven't actually eaten in the restaurant yet, but I was very excited to come upon the market. So if you want fresh grape leaves, you know, fresh, maybe canned or bagged, za'atar
um, any of the, the good ingredients.
Go up there. Go there. Okay. They have Palestinian soda. Palestine soda, which I, I don't even, I think it's new just in the last couple years. The, uh, company, I, it's not even, it's not even, uh, based in, in Palestine. It's a, I think it's a European, I don't remember which country, sorry. Uh, but, uh, wanted to kind of. Of in solidarity with Palestine and, and in, kind of wanting to create a, an alternative to Coca-Cola basically. So it came up with, with Palestine.
[00:50:44] Michael Zarick: Oh, okay. I see. Um.
Um. Got, I'm gonna tell you my, my past. so I don't have, my father the Lebanese man I I don't have a good relationship with him any
longer,
but he did,
um,
give me a care package this past week, which is why I have grape leaves.
It's very, I'm, you know, we're, we're thinking. Um,
so
I did eat grape leaves
this morning. I had, uh, I have I have Sfiha
I in my, in my fridge. Uh, I, I've also eaten kibbeh and eggs this week. I'm like, like i've had the whole, the whole suite of, you know,
[00:51:15] Ruba Marshood: you started by saying you are not culturally Lebanese. Like is
[00:51:20] Michael Zarick: like,
you can't get more okay. Maybe I have more going for me than I thought. Yeah. Um. Um, Now I just need to learn how to like, speak the language and then I'll be really there. but I, I grew up with, or not grew up, I went to
college when I was in, um,
I was an RA at Indiana University. I was in,
um, what was the, oh, McNutt, which is like the
party dorm, but two of the, um. um, two of the other RAs, funnily enough, were, were Lebanese as well, and we would always, like, they were far more Lebanese. They both spoke Arabic. Um, but, but we
all sort of got together over that.
[00:51:52] Ruba Marshood: college was, was, um, a special time for me too with, with being Arab American. Mm-hmm. Um, growing up I was, uh, even though New Jersey has a very healthy Arab population, and Patterson New Jersey particular has, you know, Arab, but also Palestinian, um, community. I grew up south of there, uh, in a small town that, In which I was the only one in my school that was Arab. Certainly the only one of Palestinian and one of few that, um, whose family might identify as Muslim. and so spent a lot of time, you know, I mean even, even my name Ruba, it's an Arabic, it's Ruba. Mm-hmm. So just kind of anglicizing and making myself more accessible. Zarick
[00:52:41] Michael Zarick: definitely not the way you say that.
[00:52:43] Ruba Marshood: No.
[00:52:43] Michael Zarick: No. And I'm try,
trying
[00:52:44] Ruba Marshood: figure it out. Since we, since I first
[00:52:46] Michael Zarick: we do come from the, um, Christian Lebanese, like where mm-hmm. I was raised Catholic, not Yeah. Muslim. Yeah.
[00:52:52] Ruba Marshood: Um,
[00:52:52] Michael Zarick: so I I assume that has an effect, but not that much of an effect
[00:52:56] Ruba Marshood: don't, I I don't know that it would have much of an effect on the, the language and pronunciation, but, uh, yeah. I, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
We'd have to ask your father, but all to say, when I went to college, there was an organization of Arab students and there was a, a Palestine. Solidarity group. And, and that was like a special place where I got to connect.
Oh my gosh. There are so many more people who have this experience of being Arab American or Palestinian American and, you know, having different dialects and accents. And I learned a lot of Egyptian Arabic. Uh, I'll also say it's a beautiful time when you get to connect that as young adults.
[00:53:36] Michael Zarick: So Bill Brooks, um, asked me a question just share with you, although it is an
an Indy Reads question. Uh, so we'll circle back to that. he said, and
I forget the exact wording, I should have written it down. That was the one homework I didn't do is get the question from yesterday. He said, what is, what can
Indy Reads do? To better Indianapolis? What's next what's your, what's your next initiative? Where are you looking?
[00:54:04] Ruba Marshood: Well, so for the last, over the last two years, we've seen a 233% increase in demand for our classes. That's crazy. It is crazy. And our, uh, fundraising efforts, though successful have nowhere near grown at that same pace.
[00:54:18] Michael Zarick: You have not gotten 233% increase in funding.
[00:54:21] Ruba Marshood: We have not grown,
[00:54:22] Michael Zarick: Certainly not at this time, either
[00:54:23] Ruba Marshood: 233%. We, we have grown over the last three years and yes, at this time, um, are facing some, some challenges, uh, in that regard as many are.
The short answer would be we gotta keep doing what we're doing. Um, and the longer answer would be that if literacy truly is about reading and writing our world and, uh, deepening our sense of shared humanity. Then our initiatives and our vision for advancing Literacy For All
includes what we already are doing. Which, you know, in some ways is a, is, you know, from the community classroom side is, is a bit survival, right? Learning the skills, um, earning some diplomas to be able to enter and advance in, in work and participate more in your child's life and education. Um, and beyond that, you know, there is thriving through the, the space and the, the programming that we, that we host and organize through our bookstore.
We are continuously evolving, I wanna say evolving, not, not necessarily expanding, but evolving to, uh. More intentionally engage our learners and their families. So most of our adult learners are parents or caregivers to young children. And
children
parents struggle with literacy are 72% more likely to struggle with literacy themselves.
So we have a multi-generational approach to our work that is continuously evolving. And beyond that, we are expanding our work to create space and opportunity for folks who, again, have been on the margins of society, margins of the economy, margins of of experiences here to recognize, realize, and fulfill their sense of agency in, uh, both as participants in society and leaders in their own right.
And um. Our work be to help foster nurture and cultivate that.
[00:56:56] Michael Zarick: Very good answer. Beautiful.
Um,
So one thing that I've been thinking about a lot, and I don't know if Sam shared it with you um, is how how books.
quite literally have the power to create entire cultures or communities them. them. Um, Um, I think of Harry Potter, I think of Game of Thrones, Twilight, the Bible, the
Quran. I also think of, the Communist Manifesto. Or, on
the other side, like
Mein Kampf you know, Unfortunately, or actually unfortunately not even an or, and I just have been thinking about how powerful words can be. be.
[00:57:38] Ruba Marshood: Mm-hmm.,
[00:57:39] Michael Zarick: Again, I don't really have any questions or, or ways to think about it. Do you have any sort of thoughts on that? Sort of of the power of the written word?
[00:57:49] Ruba Marshood: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it goes back to again, we've been, we've been speaking before we were writing, and so the, those books that you cite and many others were ideas before they were print on a page, I had that thought, um, and not, not to say, not to take anything away from either, either aspect of that, but I just think it's, it's important to, to remember that these books were, were written by somebody.
Mm-hmm.
And to, to write them. Meant having ideas and thoughts and stories to tell. Right? I mean, you look at the Quran or the Bible, there are different beliefs on, on how these books came about, right?
And, and kind of the stories that make them up. Um,
so I think it's, it's the power of an idea and how you
transfer
that idea can be in the written word. And that comes back to, to Brother Dfas message, right? Of that that writing can be, the, the written word can be your legacy. Um,
and I, and I wouldn't limit it to just books necessarily, but one thought I had, and, and Sam did share it with me, one thought I had immediately when you mentioned the Quran, was that the first word? That the Quran sites
as the quote from the angel Gabriel speaking to the prophet Muhammad was read
[00:59:37] Michael Zarick: Hmm.
[00:59:37] Ruba Marshood: The very first word he said to him
[00:59:39] Michael Zarick: was
[00:59:39] Ruba Marshood: was "Read."
[00:59:40] Michael Zarick: Very serendipitous.
[00:59:41] Ruba Marshood: Yes. And I think that that speaks believe in the Quran or not, right? Mm-hmm. Like, but just the idea that, that a whole group of people understand that the very first word God had to say to humans
humans
was 'read'. Mm-hmm. Um, gives us the chance to, again, remember that there's power in ideas.
That there's power in, in seeking understanding. And with that, I, I tend to lean towards curiosity. Um.
And when we lean into that, I think that we build community, whether it's because of there's agreement or we foster a space for healthy disagreement that can take us, you know, generate new levels of understanding. Um,
as for the texts themselves.
There's, there's something special and, and I, this is gonna show my age, but there's something so special about being able to hold a book, turn the pages, like smell them.
[01:01:01] Michael Zarick: The smell is, is, uh, it's big. It takes you, I mean, I think about my, it always
takes me back to my
elementary school library. Yeah. Um, for some reason. And like the Scholastic book Fair. Yeah. Um, I just, I, I, it's, there's nothing like it, but No. You know, it also, like you said, it just shows our age. Yeah. There's, you can read any you
[01:01:21] Ruba Marshood: can, but you, you can flip back and forth. You can kind of,
[01:01:24] Michael Zarick: there's something
[01:01:24] Ruba Marshood: beautiful about that.
And I think that, the fact that a written word can create community is beyond books, but that's also the constitution of our country. Mm-hmm. Here in the US right? It was a group of people came together, shared some ideas, and wrote them down and. There was the founding document of what created the idea of the United States and, and the idea of its democracy, which necessitates full comprehensive literacy and participation.
[01:01:59] Michael Zarick: Full circle. Yep.
[01:02:00] Ruba Marshood: Yep.
[01:02:02] Michael Zarick: I also want to leave on one note about myself, uh, and I have one last question. I have found that I'm a terrible reader and by terrible I mean actually excellent.
Um, and that I read so slowly. Both of the, two of the books I mentioned earlier were both 100 pages. which is a very small book in my opinion, although in some people's opinion
very long. But for me, very small. I'm a fantasy reader and many of these fantasy books are thousands of pages. not thousands, hundreds. Um.
And the reason I say I'm a bad reader is because what will, what I'll ha what will happen is I will read a paragraph. And I'll go, yes. And then I will think about it for like 10 minutes and I will make no progress book. So, and the reason I say I'm an excellent reader is 'cause I think at least me, that's probably a very good thing. Um,
[01:02:58] Ruba Marshood: it is.
[01:02:59] Michael Zarick: or I mean any reaction, but in the moment I was saying yes, but even saying no and then thinking about it is probably also good.
[01:03:06] Ruba Marshood: You're taking the time to digest it mm-hmm. And reflect upon it.
Mm-hmm. I think that's, I think we all need to take more time to do that, both as we're reading, but also in, in
[01:03:18] Michael Zarick: mm-hmm.
And any interaction
Mm-hmm.
Okay. One final question, and I don't know if you picked up on this, but I I need you to ask the next guest a question, and it can be about anything. About anything.
It does not have to be about reading, it does not have to be about community.
Um, but whatever you feel in your heart,
what would you like to ask the
next Third Space Indy guest?
[01:03:42] Ruba Marshood: Okay. what is something that are looking forward to doing
and why haven't you done it yet?
[01:03:56] Michael Zarick: A
very similar question was asked, um, previously, which was by Mark Latta which I I Oh He asked, um, if you you were not afraid, what would you do? Which is a very similar maybe, um, very mark way of asking a question. Sure. Yours is a very Ruba way of asking question.
Um, well anyways, uh, thank you joining Ruba
on this episode of Third Space Indy Um, Indy Reads
in you call this downtown in Fountain
Square.
Um, please come check it out. It's a
nonprofit bookstore or come volunteer. I'm sure Ruba would love if you volunteered and i'm sure she would also love to chat with you as well, but I, I don't know if she has to. I would love all of the above.
[01:04:37] Ruba Marshood: And just to say, I wanna I wanna push back a nonprofit bookstore. Yes. We have a bookstore and it is an arm of our work. We're a nonprofit literacy organization.
How's that? Okay. I'm sorry I failed. No, you just stopped. You know, you oh, wait, no, you told the
[01:04:55] Michael Zarick: wait. You said I've noticed that you said, oh, you you said I know what you're gonna say I'm too down on myself. Yes. you're so,
[01:05:01] Ruba Marshood: you, there's enough judgment to go around in this world.
[01:05:05] Michael Zarick: it's, I try to push away ego. Um. Um. but But I'm gonna, gonna, blame Sam,
It's a non-profit literary organization, not a bookstore. Um, Sam work on the, on messaging.
Um. Yeah, sam will be very upset to hear that from me. She'll probably listen. to the podcast.
she'll. Um, anyways, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. You can find me on Instagram at Third Space Indy
You go to thirdspaceindy.com where you can uh, I write a blog. Please, please read the blog. I work so hard on it.
I write like a thousand words every time there's an episode.
Um, and then you can also put your email in and I will send it to you Monday morning when the episode releases.
Anyways, uh, see you next time and
I hope to share the next episode of
Third Space Indy, with you Ruba, can I get a high five?
[01:05:56] Ruba Marshood: High five.
Thank you so much for having me, and thanks for visiting.
[01:06:01] Michael Zarick: Thanks for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. A special shout out to Sam Ferrante and Jean Miller, without whom this episode would not have happened, and of course to the rest of the Indy Reads team working just as hard down there in Fountain Square. If you're interested in learning more about Indy Reads, you can go to indyreads.org.
And if you'd like to donate, head to indyreads.org/donate. of course, there's always a link in the show notes. Today's intro music was the Indy Reads Jingle, created and donated by Vinny Corsaro. And the outro music is as always, the song, Scared Rabbit by the local artist, Jennasen.
Thanks for taking the time to listen to the episode, and I look forward to sharing the next episode of Third Space Indy with you.