Ep. 14 - Ed Fujawa - Local Indianapolis Historian
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Ed is one of the first Indianapolis people I ever knew about after coming to Indianapolis, because the best way to learn about who lives in a city is through Twitter, of course. Obviously, the utility of Twitter these days is questionable at best, but if you can slide into certain niches, like the one Ed fills, you can often discover some great people.
My wife regularly sends me posts from Ed Fujawa when he posts about various historical happenings around the city, especially in our neighborhood around Broad Ripple and Butler-Tarkington. I was very excited when he finally got back to me about chatting, and I am very delighted to have met him. Indianapolis has an interesting history all across the city over its 200 years, and Ed is doing an amazing job of uncovering quite a bit of it.
Intro
Introduction paragragh
Can be found here:
Links to listen
Links of references from the show
Production learnings
Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Important links and mentions
Ed Fujawa
Podcast Episode: An Indianapolis What If: The Proposal to Dam the White River
Food Mentions
Production learnings from the episode
You may notice, especially if you watch the video podcast, that this is my first episode using a new lav microphone. I purchased this as a gift to myself for getting a new job. This allows me to be even more mobile than I already was, and I will likely get a second one; the transmitter can handle up to two. This will make doing the podcast fully hands-free, or if I have two guests, I can give one microphone to each, which is greater than my current max of two.
I need to work on dialing in the settings on each of my microphones so there’s not as much audio bleed between each of the inputs, but overall, I’m pretty happy with the quality.
Also, you’ll notice toward the end of the episode that my handheld recorder dies, and then Ed adjusts his microphone to take it off and hand it to me. I think he may have accidentally turned it off momentarily, so I have to swap to phone audio while the microphone reconnects. Just a small tech error, but I think it’s ok overall. No big deal.
Just as a note to myself to always carry batteries and not play as fast and loose with battery charge 😂.
Photography is decent today, but I did do some color correction again today. The giant brick background is pretty one-note, and the image was fairly bright again. So I upped the vibrancy of the non-red colors and toned down the brightness just a bit. Overall, decently happy with the image, I’m hoping to actually pick up a new phone soon, which should elevate it even further. Some of these new phones have insane cameras and do a lot of behind-the-scenes cheating.
Writing heading
I’m going to intentionally avoid writing an extra section in the blog today. What I’d rather have you do is either select some of Ed’s blog posts linked above to read or scroll through his site and read one that interests you. Here’s the one about 200 years of Indianapolis: Click here
I hope you enjoyed the episode. Have a great day.
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Episode Summary
Preserving Local History: A Conversation with Ed, the Local Historian
In this episode, Michael interviews Ed, an attorney by profession and a passionate local historian. Ed shares his journey from being born in Boulder, Colorado, to moving to Greenwood, Indiana, and later attending IU Bloomington. His love for history manifests in his website, Class 900 Indy, and his book 'Vanished Indianapolis'. The discussion covers various aspects of Indianapolis history, including the preservation efforts for School 86, its significance in local history, and Ed's deep connection to the neighborhood. Additionally, they touch on personal anecdotes and memorable college experiences, underscoring the importance of preserving historical sites for their cultural and architectural value.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Background
01:20 Early Life and Education
01:38 Life in Butler-Tarkington
01:52 Pizza and Vanished Indianapolis
03:01 Personal Life and College Memories
05:34 Little 500 Experiences
06:45 Indianapolis History and School 86
09:46 Preserving Historical Places
14:13 Interest in History and Family Influence
15:27 Memorable College Classes
17:55 Fishing and Patience
Episode Transcript
Ed Fujawa
[00:00:00] Ed Fujawa: and, you know, it's like, it's telling the stories about Indianapolis because, you know, some of them are rather mundane.
If you can make 'em kind of interesting and get people like, oh, that's, I never knew that. Or I've walked past this building, or I walked past this area of the city, I've driven through this area of the city. Had no idea. And especially with like our neighborhood, you know, I, there's, you know, there's constantly changes.
You know, there's a lot of younger families moving in, older generations passing on. There's people who aren't familiar with the, with the history of the neighborhood. And that's what I'm hoping to do is kind of let them know about that history,
about our, especially the integration period, you know, the civil rights era in the neighborhood, and how that should, you know, how that's going forward, how we're still, you know, uh, tackling those issues.
Definitely. So,
[00:00:36] Michael Zarick: um, is there any, sorry, I hope this thing doesn't die. That would be unfortunate. Oh, the battery's getting low. I should have changed it.
\ Hello. My name is Michael Zarick.
This is Third Space Indy. This is a podcast where we talk to community builders, leaders and organizers. Today I'm joined by Ed Fujawa. Ed, uh, is a local historian, although it's funny 'cause I think he works for the state insurance agency. I,
[00:01:11] Ed Fujawa: I do, I do.
And thank, thank you Michael. Um, I do, I I am a, I do consider myself a local historian, but by day I'm an attorney for the Indiana Department of Yeah.
[00:01:20] Michael Zarick: So Ed was born in Boulder, Colorado, but as a young, young lad was,
uh, lifted away to Greenwood, Indiana and then, uh, in 2000, I believe, attended IU Bloomington and graduated in 2004. Yep. Went to law school, although I don't know where. Yeah.
Uh, and then came back, moved to Butler, Talkington where we're sitting, uh, the neighborhood we're sitting in. Uh, we'll talk about exactly where we're sitting in just a little bit, uh, in 2008. Uh, and now, like we said, works for an insurance company. And as a historian, he runs a website called Class 900 Indy, which is actually just incredible.
His most recent blog post is about, uh, the pizza history in Indianapolis, which I am. I, this is the, a personal, uh, love of mine is pizza and a personal beef I have with Indianapolis, uh, in terms of pizza quality. But I guess there's a, a strong contention and a cohort of people who feel strongly one way or another there.
Uh, and then also wrote a book that, uh, I met some fans of this morning called Vanished Indianapolis, which is about parts of Indianapolis that have quite literally been vanished, changed, altered, whatever term you want to use. Uh, and been made into another thing, which also brings me to where we're sitting, which is school 86, just off of Butler's campus.
Although Butler owns it.
[00:02:47] Ed Fujawa: They do own it. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is part of the Butler campus.
[00:02:50] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Uh, and, uh, Ed is a massive advocate for preserving this space. So I'm sure we're gonna get into that just a little bit. But anyways, Ed, tell me how you're doing. This is a beautiful morning, and also tell me a little bit about yourself. Yeah. From beyond what I said.
[00:03:06] Ed Fujawa: Well, thank you Michael, and you covered everything quite well, but, uh, I'm doing fantastic on this, uh, uh, kind of a warm morning here in Butler-Tarkington, but, uh, it's a beautiful day. Um, yeah, as you said, I, I, I born in Boulder, Colorado. Uh, my parents were in the Army, so we spent some time at a few bases here and there.
And last one was in Chicago and then we moved down to Greenwood and I attended Greenwood schools. Graduated in 2000 and then went to IU Bloomington and, uh, yeah, then went to law school up in Michigan at Thomas Cooley, and then came back here and. Uh, got married in oh seven and my wife and I lived initially downtown.
Mm-hmm. At 16th or 17th and Central.
[00:03:45] Michael Zarick: Okay.
[00:03:45] Ed Fujawa: And, uh, but then, uh, in late, um, oh seven, we were able to purchase a house in this neighborhood because prices weren't nearly as high as they are in 2008.
[00:03:54] Michael Zarick: Oh, who? And not
[00:03:55] Ed Fujawa: nearly as high as they are now.
[00:03:57] Michael Zarick: So, um, where'd you, this is just, I I went to IU Bloomington as well. Where'd you stay?
[00:04:04] Ed Fujawa: So, oh, okay. So, uh, the first year, my freshman year I was at Ashton Moffit.
[00:04:09] Michael Zarick: I don't even know where that is. Oh wait, Ashton, Ashton Hall, I think is just,
am I
[00:04:12] Ed Fujawa: Well back in oh seven, Ashton was like one of the oldest dorms. It was a bunch of small buildings. Some of them were cinder block, but it was right on seventh Street across from, I think it was Lenny's and a, uh, the um, uh, Jimmy John's.
Yes. And that's where I was introduced to Jimmy John's ate way too much, Jimmy John's that first semester. And then food court at Wright was just a couple, was like a block away. And I ate way too much Sbarros that first semester too. And lemme tell you, I will never touch Sbarros again. But that was freshman year.
And then the next three years I lived in a
Willkie dorm.
[00:04:44] Michael Zarick: Oh, really? So you lived dorm
All, all, all,
[00:04:47] Ed Fujawa: all. Well, Willkie had just rid of it. Okay. And it was beautiful. And, uh, first year I had a, a, a suite with one other guy. We shared a bathroom and the air conditioner, you could crank that thing down to 60 degrees, it would not blink.
It was fantastic. Especially after, no, no air conditioning, Ashton. And then I got larger rooms later on, but that's where I met my wife too. She worked at the front desk at Wilke. So, uh, so yeah, dorm, dorm life the entire time.
[00:05:10] Michael Zarick: I, um, I posted yesterday on Instagram that I, there was a guy who tweeted like, you'll never meet your wife at the opening.
Week of college. And that's exactly where I met my wife. So like I thought that was funny. Well, she, she that you you and I have a similar experience.
[00:05:22] Ed Fujawa: We met junior year, she went to Ball State her freshman year, and then she was at, actually at Willkie sophomore year when I was there. And we just never crossed paths.
And then she was working the front desk and, uh, at the time I was training for a little five and I would come
in with my bike and I'd see her. And
[00:05:34] Michael Zarick: You're a a little 500 right here.
[00:05:36] Ed Fujawa: I did, I rode, uh, in 2002 for my dorm. Um, we, uh, oh,
[00:05:41] Michael Zarick: the dorm team. Not like Cutters or something.
[00:05:42] Ed Fujawa: Oh no. Heck no.
No. We were, we were not great. We finished, I think 30th outta 33. And I was on the first lap, I rode for the first lap and there was a crash right in the mid-pack. And you've seen the little five, you know, when there's crashes, there's bodies
and bikes flying everywhere.
[00:05:57] Michael Zarick: My wife also rode in little 500. Oh, really? Fantastic. Shout out to Anna Darling.
[00:06:00] Ed Fujawa: What, what team?
[00:06:01] Michael Zarick: She rode for her sorority, which is, uh, Alpha Sigma Alpha. Nice. And she was also involved
[00:06:06] Ed Fujawa: a
[00:06:06] Michael Zarick: crash. at one point.
[00:06:06] Ed Fujawa: It just, I couldn't avoid it was just right in front of me and I went flying over the top. But, uh, but yeah. Um, I only rode one year, and then the next year I was diagnosed with some heart issues, so I was more like the organizer and coach.
Okay. So
[00:06:17] Michael Zarick: cool. Um, love Little 500 and, uh, I, I'm, I'm more connected to Little 500 than I am the Indy 500 in every way. So that's,
um,
[00:06:28] Ed Fujawa: well, the women's race is far more exciting than the men's race for anybody who hasn't gone, at least that's my opinion. It's, uh, only a hundred laps, a lot more. Uh, if you make a mistake, it, it impacts the race a lot more,
at least in my opinion.
[00:06:39] Michael Zarick: Yeah, that's I, I've, I think I've only watched the women's race. I don't know. It's not
that important.
Um, anyways, I am really, so one of the main reasons I reached out to you, oh, first of all, I'm just like really interested in Indianapolis history as someone who just moved here and there's clearly so much history I learned.
From your blog actually that Indianapolis was made the capital, well, it was founded in 1820 and it was made the capital in 1825. The only reason I can remember this, 'cause I literally read it last night, um, which means Indianapolis is ha is now at year 200 being
the capital of Indiana.
[00:07:17] Ed Fujawa: Yep. This year. Um, which
[00:07:18] Michael Zarick: which means we're like older than the United States. Is that No. Is that, how does that work? No. 1776. Oh wait,
[00:07:26] Ed Fujawa: 1776.
[00:07:27] Michael Zarick: I'm bad at Math.
United States. 250 years old. Yeah. Not 200 years. What am saying? But,
um,
[00:07:33] Ed Fujawa: we're not quite that old.
[00:07:35] Michael Zarick: The reason I'm so interested in Indianapolis history, just history in general, and more so now that I'm older is because I feel like we can learn so well.
I, we can try. I don't know that we actively do so learn so many lessons from our mistakes in the past. Um, and we're also sitting at a spot that I think is. Uh, I'm interested in why it's, um, important to you, but also just sort of the wider conversation around Indianapolis history, why you're interesting, interested in things like that.
But let's start with school. 84. Six. 86. Okay. I keep getting this mixed up. My, I shouldn't have even, uh, brought it into the conversation, but my grandmother attended school 84. Right over here, right? Uh, yeah. Yeah. In middle school. Yeah. So that's why I keep getting these two mixed up. They're like both in my head.
Um, but school 86 Butler, uh, you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, Butler is attempting to level it and then build something on top.
[00:08:37] Ed Fujawa: Well, not attempting. It's, it's kind of a, so this school was originally, it was, you know, built back in the, uh, late thirties into early forties, and then added on again in the fifties.
Butler came into possession back in the, uh, late 1990s when IPS, uh, closed the school.
Mm-hmm. And for the next 20 some years, it was, uh, international school. Um, their, their like primary grades were here, but then I think it was 2022 is when international school left and Butler has held onto it and they, they've been exploring options.
My concern was that they would be just demolished and Butler's never said they were gonna demolish it. They're just exploring options. So I wanted to get out ahead of things and try to, you know, get a movement started to preserve or, or adaptively reuse the building. Okay. To encourage I to do that.
[00:09:26] Michael Zarick: Yeah. So, uh, this is the angle I always hit it from. It always sounds so, I think it sounds harsh when I say it, but I don't think of it this way. I'm not a sentimental person. Mm-hmm. Uh, most of the time, uh, which, you know, my wife would probably argue I'm sentimental about very specific things. Uh, so maybe I'm just selective.
Uh, and maybe we all are, but why do you think that like, preserving this school specifically or just places.
historical places is important?
[00:09:56] Ed Fujawa: Yeah. Well, so the sentimentality thing. I've never thought of myself as being terribly sentimental either. It's just, I think as certain things pop up in our lives, all of a sudden the sentimentality will hit us. And like I, like I said, I grew up in Greenwood, the old Greenwood Middle School that got abolished a couple years ago, and I was never really terribly connected.
Was there for three years. Yeah. Great school, et cetera. And then I happened to be driving through town, um, going down to visit my family down that south side, and I drove past and the school was gone. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I had this, this moment of sentimentality where it just kind of hit me. So it di I feel like it's one of those things that when you're faced with something that kind of draws that, those feelings out.
And for school 86, I mean, I, I've lived here for 18 years. Um, there's folks in this neighborhood, you know, within a stone's throw where we're sitting who have attended this school and. It it for a couple. It's not really, you know, architecturally it's not, you know, anything dramatic. It's a large brick building.
It's got some nice features, but the main thing that I wanted to preserve it for was, it's kind of a, a, the character it brings to the neighborhood. It's an older brick building in a neighborhood of older houses right across the street from Hinkle, which is, you know, constructed in back in 1928. I think it adds and provides a nice character to the neighborhood.
You know, kind of an older structure like this, but also it kind of has this, this history with the neighborhood that Butler Ton, um, has kind of a, a interesting history involving, uh, integration and racial diversity. Back in the 1950s into the 1960s, Butler Tarkington and Neighborhood Association was formed to facilitate the kind of peaceful integration of the neighborhood
And to encourage diversity,
and would you say they
[00:11:33] Michael Zarick: succeeded?
[00:11:34] Ed Fujawa: They, it's, I, I'd say it's an ongoing process. Okay. I'd say, and we can talk about that, you know, how, how much they succeeded. Um, I think it was a very noble goal and at the, and it certainly did a lot of good, especially back in the fifties and sixties. The overall integration is not as, uh, great as I think, you know, some folks would've expected back then.
Mm-hmm. But the school was kind of a, kind of evidence of that diversity because it was, it was naturally integrated with, uh, white and black students from the neighborhood. And back in the 1970s when there was federal, uh, uh, litigation going on about the integration of the IPS of Indianapolis Public Schools, the federal judge was hearing the case.
Called out school 86 specifically noting that it, you know, there's a formula you had to go through a certain percentage of, of, of integration for each schools. That this school was the only school in the IPS system that was already at that federal federally mandated, um, percentage. It was already naturally, uh, uh, integrated and diverse because of the nature of the neighborhood.
Yeah. And that was part of, you know, I kind of saw that as the, you know, the result of the, you know, the integration efforts of BTNA and just a natural, natural integration of the neighborhood. So it's kind of a symbol of those efforts from the middle of
last century moving forward. To today.
[00:12:51] Michael Zarick: That is, uh, it's a long-winded answer, but that's no, I, you have, uh, that is an excellent summary in a way that it sort of, uh, helps me understand why you are so passionate about this school specifically.
Also, it sort of, uh, grounds the conversation in a, in a way that I think is, is helpful opposed to just saying like. I just like it,
you know what I mean? Oh yeah. No,
[00:13:14] Ed Fujawa: there's gotta be, I mean, I like the building. I think it should be. Plus I will also note that it was constructed by the William P Gloss Company.
And if you've read my blog, um, I've done a lot of writing about the William p Ju Closs company, now known as, uh, JLo Campbell, but they have been operating in the city for 175 years. One of the longest operating companies in city history. Still operating. Yeah. And the seventh generation owner actually lives two doors down from me.
[00:13:38] Michael Zarick: He's,
[00:13:39] Ed Fujawa: the family still operates the company and their family, his family constructed this building. So there's also
that, that kind of additional, you know, neighborhood tie.
[00:13:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Interesting. So beyond school, 86. Mm-hmm. 86. Um, why in Indianapolis, like, actually just from this angle, like why are you, as someone who studied law, and I guess these sort of go hand in hand oftentimes, but why are
you so interested in Indianapolis history?
[00:14:13] Ed Fujawa: Well, I was a history major in, at iu, my parents were both history majors. Mm-hmm. Um, they were both lawyers too, but in, back in the nineties, you
know,
we didn't have a huge amount of money. Mm-hmm. And, uh, they weren't working for, you know, big firms, things like that.
Um, we would go camping a lot and whenever we went camping, we would go to historic sites, like the number of civil war sites. We went to state parks, close to historic sites, and that
was kind of, those were our vacations and.
[00:14:38] Michael Zarick: You sound like my wife actually. That's,
like, that's what happens for, for her as a child.
I think
[00:14:43] Ed Fujawa: I, it happens a lot. I think, uh, maybe it's an Indy I'm sure it's a Midwest thing maybe, but, uh, you know, state parks, things like that. And that kind of grew my interest in history and I'd always been interested in history and, you know, coming, being in Indianapolis. I started writing some historical, uh, articles for our neighborhood newsletter that my wife was actually, she was the designer in publishing it for the neighbor.
Butler. Talkington,
yeah. The neighborhood newsletter. And, um, I started writing some historical articles, articles about the neighborhood, and there was a really good response and I kind of was like, okay, let's dig into this a little more. And part also part of the whole interest in history is the canal, which runs right over here.
Mm-hmm. I'd always found that very fascinating once I started digging into that. You know, the history behind that kind of really
hooked me into the history of Indianapolis too, so.
[00:15:26] Michael Zarick: Hmm. Um, just a side note, I took, I, well, I took a couple history classes in college. One of them. Totally changed my worldview, which was, uh, you'll think this is funny.
Uh, American, uh, intervention in central and Southern America, that totally
changed my worldview, but also, oh boy. I mean that's, that,
[00:15:45] Ed Fujawa: that's gotta be a survey class. There's gotta be a couple. Uh,
uh, class. Was it, was it one or was there multiple?
[00:15:50] Michael Zarick: This was one class, but it totally, uh, that is like, I, I referenced that class as like, having been like a radicalizing moment in my life, being like, oh, actually this is kind of messed up.
I, I took some
[00:16:03] Ed Fujawa: classes, well actually I took a, uh, Nazism in Europe class, which really was, it hit hard. Um, that class hit hard. And then I took a lot of, uh, Russian history classes too. A professor named Ben Eclo, who I took several classes from, he's unfortunately passed away now.
But the first class I took was this kind of a survey course on, uh, war and Peace, the to soy novel. And it was like, you know, that thing's a behemoth. Yes. But he, he knew, I mean, it was such an interesting class. And I took several follow ups about, you know, Imperial Russia and Soviet Russia.
And it was, it was just such a fascinating area of history.
[00:16:38] Michael Zarick: The other class I remember taking is as a freshman, it was one of those entry level history classes.
I only remember the professor said the very last, or the very first day of class, he said, you are only going to remember one thing from this class. And it's very true. 'cause this is all I remember. I don't remember the context. I don't remember,
oh boy.
I don't remember any of this. But he said, the only thing you're gonna remember is the words, bird shit and railroads.
And I cannot, for the life of me tell you why it had something to do with American history building,
like railroads all across the world. And then there's this island,
I wanna say.
And in
[00:17:13] Ed Fujawa: Guano,
Was it like, was it the, uh, like out in the Pacific?
[00:17:17] Michael Zarick: I think so. Was like a, it's like an island that isn't made of entirely bird shit.
[00:17:21] Ed Fujawa: Yeah. No. Okay. This is, we may be going
off the rails here.
[00:17:25] Michael Zarick: Alright. This is history. We're getting total. Total pivot. Yeah. But this is just, uh, on the topic of history, this is the only thing I remember from this class is the word bird shit and railroads. And I just think it's so cool because there was a
[00:17:35] Ed Fujawa: whole industry about, I think it was, um, oh, it might have been actually, I think it's like guano or something that you, they would harvest that or
Or gather it for, this is exactly the, I can't remember what they use it for but I must have been like nitrogen or something.
Yeah, something in there. Fertilizer or something.
But it was out in the Pacific, so. Oh boy. I feel like we need to dig into that a little bit more. Find out what that class was. I, I also took a bass fishing class at IU, which was terribly disappointing,
but I saw that you're a
[00:17:59] Michael Zarick: fisherman,
[00:18:00] Ed Fujawa: I do fish but, uh,
[00:18:01] Michael Zarick: you know, not good at it, but, or supposedly,
[00:18:03] Ed Fujawa: Hey, when I, when I tell my wife, no, I, I catch a few, but, um, what I tell my wife is when she asked me how I did, I'm like, Hey, it was a nice day out on the river.
Any time you can be out on the nice, on the White river, you know, waiting around fishing and even if you don't catch anything, it's a beautiful morning.
So
[00:18:18] Michael Zarick: you're much more patient. I maybe I'll get there someday, but I can't stand sitting still, although this
is my main form of sitting still. So maybe I'm lying. Maybe it's right do with someone sitting still right here. No, just in general with, with sitting and podcasting. Um, alright, so this sort of idea of, um, Indianapolis history. Now I'm, I'm actually interested because you, you talk about, uh, Butler and Butler Talkington
with a sort of reverence, and I think it's interesting that it has this, uh, at least from your angle, perceived history of integration when you compare it, especially to, um, IU Well, it used to be IUPUI. Mm-hmm.
Uh, iu, Purdue, Indianapolis. Uh, which is no longer, uh, they had a divorce.
Yeah. Uh, but when you compare it to them, which is built on a historically black neighborhood. Yeah. This, uh, it has sort of this stained legacy. Um, and I'm sure they've, you know, called themselves out on that or whatever, but, uh, when you compare Butler's history in that way to it, uh, to I-U-P-U-I, um, I wonder what you're sort of thinking about,
'cause this is your, this area of town is your main focus, right?
[00:19:37] Ed Fujawa: Well, it's kinda my main focus because I do so much stuff for the newsletter. So I have a, I have a particular area on the website.
I try to branch out, but. It is heavily in kind of
this area just because I do, I write articles for the, uh, for the newsletter.
[00:19:51] Michael Zarick: Okay. That makes sense. Um, so like, do you have opinion about like, oh, I don't even know what the question is.
[00:19:59] Ed Fujawa: No, I think I see where you, you're going. Yeah. Yeah. Well, kind of a compare and contrast to, you know, IU Indy or the IUPUI campus, you know, kind of coming in and taking and bulldozing over a historically black neighborhood versus what we see here now.
And, and I, it's, I think it's really two different, very, two very different situations because when I talk about the integration in the neighborhood, Butler-Tarkington, the area Butler-Tarkington didn't, name wasn't given until 1950s.
Before it was
just,
[00:20:24] Michael Zarick: well, Butler-Tarkington's probably named after
[00:20:26] Ed Fujawa: Butler that didn't, that didn't arrive until 1928.
It didn't, they didn't move to the camp, to this site. But even like in the 19 teens and early 1920s, there were already black families buying houses and living in this neighborhood, uh, mostly south of 42nd Street because the rest of the neighborhood wasn't developed yet. So when we talk about integration, we're talking about like in the, you know, the forties, fifties, sixties when there was red lining in place and the redlining neighborhood
kind of ran along 42nd,
and 43rd street.
That really, that was kind of the barrier it
prevented.
[00:20:54] Michael Zarick: You can still very much see that.
[00:20:55] Ed Fujawa: Exactly. And you can still see it today. The impacts are still here, but with Butler. There was no neighborhood where Butler was, that was called Fairview Park. It was an amusement park that had been, that had been started back in 1890 by the, uh, uh, streetcar company as a, you know,
they had a line, the first electric line in Indiana,
Indianapolis came up to this park from downtown.
I think
[00:21:14] Michael Zarick: I've heard that.
[00:21:15] Ed Fujawa: I through you. Actually there a chapter in the book actually talks about, it was my, one of my favorite, the fa my favorite chapter in the book was Fairview Park. So Butler, you know, when they, when they started the campus, there was really nothing much out here. There were some neighborhoods where were being pla some houses were being platted on the south end of the neighborhood, but really up in, you know, around there that was just a, uh, amusement park.
So they, it's kind of a different situation than what you ran to with Iowa, Indianapolis, where you're already taking a very dense area of the city and saying, we're gonna drop a university here. Mm-hmm. So
[00:21:43] Michael Zarick: I am really interested in in transit.
Yeah.
This is like my favorite topic. I love transit and you have written multiple articles about the history of trains in Indianapolis, the history of street cars in Indianapolis, and just this sort of historical mode of transportation that has been almost entirely wiped away. Mm-hmm. What is your sort of, I guess, thoughts about, not necessarily why? I think the why is well spoken for. Because we have moved to a more, um, independent mode of transportation, which
is cars, which we hopefully are not hearing in the recording.
Um, it's a busy
[00:22:33] Ed Fujawa: intersection,
[00:22:34] Michael Zarick: but more so why you find that history so interesting and appealing. Maybe what sort of lessons you feel like we can learn from that historical sort of
existence that we lived. Sure. And sort of what do you, what do you think for the future?
[00:22:54] Ed Fujawa: Well, so why I find it interesting is the railroads and the street cars, especially the, I mean, it's what really helped, particularly the railroads, the steam railroads mm-hmm.
Is what really helped build the city and, you know, launch the city into its, uh, into a kind of a higher level. Which, you know, our first railroad came in the late 18, uh, late 1840s. Mm-hmm. Um, the Madison Indianapolis Railroad. And after that it was just off to the races. You know, industry came, more people moved into the area.
We became, you know, Indian, Indiana.
like, you know. The
Crossroads of America and Indianapolis really became a, a major hub. So just how those railroads influenced the growth of the city.
[00:23:30] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:31] Ed Fujawa: On the steam side, the transit side, you know, the, the like public transit, the street cars and the interurbans. It's just, to me it's, you know, again that the street cars helped expand the city as well.
The, the main, the trains brought in industry and material and people, but then the streetcar got those people to, from their homes to the industry and things like that. You know, kind of that, that more street level view. And then the interurbans, which, you know, today, I mean, I talked to people, I gave a talk, um, gosh, where was it a couple weeks ago?
And, uh, we were talking about the interurbans and people, some people aren't aware of those and they're just flabbergasted
[00:24:07] Michael Zarick: when you say interurban, i loosely understand what this means. Oh, I, I don't, I don't think the vast majority of people would even,
[00:24:13] Ed Fujawa: well, oh, and that, and that's a good point. So an interurban was basically a, a kind of a streetcar on steroids that went in between cities.
It, it went, it used a streetcar tracks inside cities, but then it would go from, for example, Indianapolis
was a major hub. Mm-hmm. You could travel from Indianapolis to
Lebanon to Lafayette.
You could go,
[00:24:33] Michael Zarick: do you have an idea of the speed of this?
[00:24:35] Ed Fujawa: Just they, so in inside the city, when they use a streetcar tracks, they would usually stay fairly slow, about the same speed as a streetcar.
Um, you know, 20, 25, 30 miles an hour, somewhere around there. But once they got outside city limits, they really cranked it up because they were electric powered. And they would, they could hit, you know, 50, 60 miles per hour. And even, I even seen some references to 70. I'm not sure how often they did that, but, you know, you could, they would have regular cars leaving from downtown, from the traction terminal on Market Street right by the State House, and you could travel all over the state.
You know, cities here and there, and it was such an amazing system and people just don't realize that we used to have such a, you know, integrated and, you know, complicated, I don't wanna say complicated, but very expansive system that connected Indianapolis with all, with the rest of the state, and then it all went away.
[00:25:25] Michael Zarick: Yeah. And you can sort of even see the remnants, like I live over in Warfleigh slash uh, Broad Ripple mm-hmm. In Bricks, which is the, uh, stands for the Broad River Ice Cream Company.
Looks just like a train station. I think it historically probably was. There's actually pictures inside and like the Monon obviously was a, a train line. Um, so just like if you close your eyes or even keep your eyes open and just imagine that the path was a railroad. Mm-hmm. Tracks or whatever tracks instead of a, a, a paved path, you can just like see how incredible that may have been, um, to be able to just move around the city in that way.
And obviously we had the bus line, but the bus line has to stop in pause,
uh, in certain spaces. Whereas this would've been like constant
Well,
[00:26:15] Ed Fujawa: and, And Broad Ripple is like, when you're talking about like the inter, I mean street cars, you still see the rails pop up all over the place. I did some stuff on social media about that a couple weeks ago, but Broad Ripple still has some, uh, interurban history right across from the Jiffy Lube on, on, uh, college, right.
Right past, right next to where they're building a new fire station. There's a brick building, it's a VFW. Yes. Or American Legion? One of the two.
[00:26:37] Michael Zarick: Yes.
[00:26:37] Ed Fujawa: That's an old, uh, that's the Interurban Power Station. Oh, it's a sub, it's a substation for the, I can't remember which line it was. I did a blog post
about this, but the line up parallel to college.
And if you are in Marrot Park, have you ever been to, you know where Marrot Park is, right? Been I've been there,
[00:26:50] Michael Zarick: but I know where it's,
[00:26:51] Ed Fujawa: so right along college, there's a little cut, there's a ditch next to college on the east side of college. And that was the cut for the interurban line going northward.
That's where the line, the rails used to be laid. That's so neat. So there's still evidence of that, and that's why I like it. You can find these, you know, these pieces of, of the past associated with the interurbans and remind people of what we used to, what this state used to have. Mm-hmm. When
And you had this high speed, fairly high speed train system.
Connecting cities all around the state.
[00:27:15] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Well, um, is this something, I mean, i, I think the political will is not there, but is this something you would personally like to see? Yeah.
[00:27:26] Ed Fujawa: Trains like, yeah. I don't know. Oh yeah. No, I mean, we, my wife and I used to take the Hoosier line up to Chicago. Yeah. And it, it took a while. You know, you had to, you know, you taking the, sorry, there's a big bus.
[00:27:38] Michael Zarick: Yeah, that's cool.
[00:27:40] Ed Fujawa: Taking the Hoosier line up. Chicago did take a while. You know, you had to give right away to freight trains, things like that. But, you know, it was such, it was such a cool way to go. And you can still take the Cardinal Line up there. It's just
not as frequent.
Mm-hmm. But if we had like a high speed train between Chicago and Indianapolis Oh, that would be amazing.
[00:27:56] Michael Zarick: Yeah. But When we go to Chicago, which has actually been a couple times recently. Um, well, I've only gone once, but my wife's gone a couple. Um, 'cause we drive to Gary, the Gary area and take the South Shoreline in.
Yeah. Instead of. Driving all the way in because it's such a pain to deal with parking and all that. But if you, the shout out, if you ever go to Chicago, you should do this, like go to Gary or the surrounding area, the Dunes, whatever, the parking is free. Mm-hmm. Which is important. And then it's like seven bucks to take the train, the South Shoreline train in.
It takes just about as long as driving in and you don't have to worry about parking and that your car is safe. Like a lot of those are near, like police stations or whatever. If you, um, I wouldn't worry about leaving your stuff there.
Takes you right to Randolph Street Station and it takes you right into Millennium Park basically. So, uh, this is exactly where you often want to be.
So, and then obviously that connects to the rest of the city.
[00:28:50] Ed Fujawa: Yeah. South Shoreline's, fantas... we took it one time from South Bend. Um, my grandparents were, were still, were still living there, but, uh, yeah, something like that. That's amazing. It's just, you know. Like, what was it, 20 some years ago, there was a, there was discussion about a rail, a light rail from, uh, Noblesville mm-hmm.
Fishers down through Indianapolis. Mm-hmm. Paralleling like the, the Monon route into downtown.
And, you know, it got shot down and now we're, we're not, I think, uh, state passed a law, if I remember correctly, saying that we can, Indiana did do Yeah. But that, I mean, now you see the growth up on that side of the city and I mean, if
you had a fast, you know, light rail line coming down from Noblesville, I think it would get a lot of traction.
But, you know,
[00:29:30] Michael Zarick: everyone I talk to, uh, uh, and we'll jump, we'll talk about pizza in a moment, but everyone I talk to, I'd be like, would you ride the bus? If it were like more efficient, I ride the bus all the time, but like, would, if it were more efficient, it came regularly. All of these things. And the answer is universally yes.
And I imagine the answer would be same if I lived in Noblesville and the train was regular and efficient and not super expensive. Like the answer of course would be Yes. Because people are so tired of driving.
[00:30:01] Ed Fujawa: Well, I mean, I take the bus every day. I take the 28 bus down the transit center. They changed it up.
I used to get up my station, my stop used to be right by the State House,
which is very You work in the, where do you work?
I, so I don't work in the government center. I work on, uh, on the south side of Washington Street, across from the government center. And it's, its old building called the Fair Building.
It was a, uh, uh, department store back in the day. But, uh, the department's been there for a very, very long time. So, but I used to hop off of the, uh, stop at Ohio and, uh, Capitol short walk, they change the routes. Now I'm over at the transit center, but you know, I get my steps in walking over, so it works out.
But yeah, I mean it's, you know, occasionally when I do have to drive downtown,
um, you know, I'm just like, I I don't wanna say I get frustrated, but it's like, man, I could be on the bus taking a nap right now on my way home, literally, because I do fall asleep. Like I have naps ever
since college. As soon as I hop on the bus, I'll fall asleep and I'll wake up right before my stops.
Just as weird skill, I guess.
[00:30:54] Michael Zarick: All right. I'm really excited about this. I love pizza. I actually ate pizza last night. My stomach hurt this morning.
[00:31:02] Ed Fujawa: From where?
[00:31:03] Michael Zarick: Goodfellas, that's like the, it's a chain, but you know, I know we were at the, so they have the one downtown on Mass Ave in the back. They have, they call it a speakeasy.
I hate that. They call it a speakeasy. It is just a bar. Yeah. It is not a speakeasy. A speakeasy no one knows about or it's exclusive. It's just a bar. Um, I refuse to call it as such. Okay. But great space, first of all, especially when there's a pizza shop in the front and you can just go get pizza and have a drink.
It's very nice. And actually, I think unfortunately, or for, don't know what. Whatever you think, but uh, their pizza as a chain is unfortunately, like some of the best in the city. I think.
[00:31:38] Ed Fujawa: Well, I, I will say I'm not making any judgements on pizza. 'cause honestly, I, I'm not, I will eat whatever pizzas.
[00:31:45] Michael Zarick: I'm the same, I, I'm not even like, I, I'm not that picky.
[00:31:48] Ed Fujawa: I love Goodfellas. I am, I'm on board with that.
[00:31:51] Michael Zarick: Um, also, I had a Futuro for the first time recently, which is like. Uh, yeah. You anti Detroit Pizza.
[00:31:56] Ed Fujawa: No, no. I like it. I see. That's the thing. I'm not anti any kind of pizza. You put a piece of pizza in front except for Sbarro.
As we mentioned earlier, I'm not after that freshman year at I, freshman first semester at IU. I'm not touching Sbarro ever again unless it's the last thing open at a airport concourse.
[00:32:10] Michael Zarick: And actually, this is a funny coincidence today, uh, unfortunately this is coming out in like three weeks, but today they're having Pizza Fest downtown.
Yeah. And we are not going, 'cause
the tickets were like $45. But I think it's funny that they're having this celebration of, of the pizza culture in Indianapolis, whatever that means.
[00:32:26] Ed Fujawa: I'd like see events downtown and
that's why I did. do the, I did do the blog post about pizza. 'cause I knew that event was
[00:32:31] Michael Zarick: Oh, you're getting your, you're getting your SEO in trying to get the SEO in.
Yeah.
Um, so you wrote this blog post about pizza history in Indianapolis, which I found, first of all, I was drawn in just 'cause I like pizza. But I was immediately fascinated by how old this. This history goes back.
Yep.
You found some, uh, interesting tidbits, not only about history, but the, the alternative names that they call pizza.
Yeah. Things like that. And also it incorporated some, some mafia stuff, I guess. Um,
I just would love for you
to give like a quick summary of this. Sure. And then maybe we'll talk about it a little bit more, but I found it like really, really interesting.
[00:33:14] Ed Fujawa: Yeah. Well, I, so I, I started thinking about like, okay, you know, I was having pizza,
Iaria's, with my wife and we're talking about when was the first.
Pizza actually, you know, commercially provided or made in Indianapolis and sold, you know, not somebody's kitchen, not somebody's home kitchen. Mm-hmm. I started digging into it and um, you know, there we've got a couple of a longer standing Italian restaurants, at least for Indianapolis, you know, that go back into like the 19 teens, 1920s, thirties.
Mm-hmm. So I kind of started with them to explore like when they started selling and beyond that. And it kind of, it was kind of a rabbit hole, but the thing was, I, you may have seen it, I put it a little caveat. It's like, I may update this, more information may come to me because there's really a lot of, it was based on newspapers and city directories, which are kind of limited.
I reached out to a couple, like, uh, of the, uh, the longer running, uh, Italian restaurants to see if I couldn't get copies of old menus and I'd at press
time, I'd not heard back from them.
So if I do eventually hear back if they have any information, I'm gonna supplement that, that blog post.
[00:34:12] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
That's so interesting.
So what was the name of
the, I'm not trying to call anyone out here, but what was the name of the family that had the mafia ties that like killed the dude?
[00:34:22] Ed Fujawa: Uh, well, I don't know if it was mafia ties. Oh, that's what it kind of red, like it was, it was, uh, that was Io o's uh, garden of Italy. Um, it was originally located, uh, they had a series of grocery stores and then the family, um, uh, they had
opened up a restaurant, north Illinois. Mm-hmm. Um, right about Giordano's is. No, I'm sorry, north of, uh, market Street. Yeah. Right. Where there's a, I think the Luca Pizza's up
there now. We haven't
[00:34:44] Michael Zarick: gone there. Uh, but I, I know of
[00:34:46] Ed Fujawa: it. Yeah. And then they relocated to South Illinois where basically the, uh, Western the p or the PNC, um, center is now.
Mm-hmm. But, you know, they were very popular. It was, not only was it, uh, it Italian. Restaurant, but they also had entertainment bands and things like that. But also there were a lot of references to gunplay. Um, there were a lot of fights, it seemed like, and, and classic, the owner was oftentimes he, you know, exchanged gunfire.
I just imagine like, you know, a fight breaking out. He reaches into the counter, pulls out the shotgun, and
Oh, like the classic, like, yeah, get out, get out here. bucko
Exactly. Exactly. And one time, some, you know, people left and they came back and they shot up the place from the, from the car. So there was a lot of newspaper articles about that.
But then in like 19, in the late forties, I don't, I don't remember the date exactly. There was a fight that resulted in a, a minor. He would, he was actually in there with some friends getting shot by the owner during the, the scuffle. Mm-hmm. And that resulted in a trial. And the, the business lost its alcohol license, which, you know, is kind of, can be fatal to, to businesses.
Yeah. And he was actually sentenced to prison and the, they shut down. And then Iozzo's reopened, I think it was like 2009 on South Meridian. Um, right near, uh, um, just south of, uh, uh, Shapiro's delicious restaurant. Yeah. Great. Really great place to go. Does not have pizza on the menu right now though. But they did have pizza in the, you know, they did advertise pizza or actually, no, they did not.
Because they shut down. Actually, I'm gonna have to go back and look at my
own blog post. I can't remember if they re, if they advertised pizza before they shut down. See, that's the problem. I write somebody, I write the blog posts. I don't have to remember everything. Yeah.
[00:36:18] Michael Zarick: The, um, I just remember talking with my, uh, what do you call them?
My in-laws, my parent. My parent in-laws, I don't know what the word is. Wife's parents. Wife's parents. In-laws? Yeah. In-laws. In-laws, uh, just about like their younger days. Mm-hmm. With living in just like the pizza habits. That
they would have. And
they mentioned a couple of different places that just don't exist anymore.
There was a place, I think it was called like Pickles or something.
Pickle. I had heard of Pickles before. Pickle Pickle Jacks or something. Something like that. Um, but then the, these places that are still around, um, like, uh,
j is it Giordano's or what's the place with like, the really flat pizza?
Um, where they like slice it into tiny squares.
[00:37:05] Ed Fujawa: Oh, uh, pizza King. Pizza King.
Pizza King.
[00:37:07] Michael Zarick: Well, Pizza King's one.
Uh, there's another one. like
a fa or it's got a family name or something.
[00:37:11] Ed Fujawa: Uh, let's see. But they're,
[00:37:13] Michael Zarick: it's like a big chain there around like Lafayette and, and South
[00:37:15] Ed Fujawa: Bend and
[00:37:16] Michael Zarick: all that.
Oh, I think, I can't remember. Oh,
[00:37:17] Ed Fujawa: Barnaby's is one. Barnaby. Well, Barnaby's I don't think is a, I don't know.
That's up in South Bend. That was a staple when I was at, when my, I was visiting my grandparents there.
[00:37:24] Michael Zarick: But it's so funny, the thing about that evolution of this, this like very, very, it feels American. The Italians claim it, the Italians did not invent pizza. I think it's a Greek invention. I dunno.
Well, and it was difficult because
[00:37:36] Ed Fujawa: like, you know, you're looking around and, and there were some references in the forties to, uh, Italian tomato pie.
Yeah, you said that. And that, that is, and then there were also references
pizzas being made on English muffins. And recipes were carried in the local newspapers
for me.
[00:37:50] Michael Zarick: Bagel, like a, a bagel bite type
thing? Yeah, almost. Yeah.
[00:37:53] Ed Fujawa: Uh, in fact, I think, uh, Broad Ripple Deli has a bagel sandwich that's kind of a, um, morning mess. I think it's called, it's kind of a pizza on a bagel Uhhuh.
But, um, so I was looking at that, and finally the earliest one I found at least advertising was 1947, I believe. And it was called, um, McCurry's Italian Village, located on Marine Street right across from where
[00:38:12] Michael Zarick: this is the first reference to pizza, pizza,
[00:38:12] Ed Fujawa: pizza being sold. Yes. And it was right across the street from, uh, where Lincoln Square Pancake House is now, the building's gone, but then after that, like advertising started everywhere.
Um, I think iOS did, uh, advertise, uh, for a bit before they were shut
down. Um, Milano Inn. Folks, uh, that shut down several years ago, but they advertise and then start references started popping up all over the place in the, uh, 1950s. So,
yeah.
[00:38:36] Michael Zarick: When, when, um, when those advertisements started, I, I kind of asked this
you on Twitter or
whatever, kind of, uh, but when ads started popping up, is that hand in hand with delivery pizza?
Or is that a little like later?
[00:38:50] Ed Fujawa: I think that that was a little bit later, but I, I think we were commenting, we were discussing that online, that that would be an in really interesting thing to explore. Like when was the first delivery pizza and like deli food delivery in general. Um, because that po that post was very popular. Food history apparently is popular.
Um, and I'm not a connoisseur, you know, like I said, you put a pizza in front of me. I am, i'm gonna eat it.
[00:39:10] Michael Zarick: told you when you do field research,
I'll be there. You gotta hit me up.
Hey, if, if, if there's field research that result in me eating some,
know, eating food for the purpose of
history, I'm good with that.
Um, when you do this type of research, just
research
mm-hmm. Um, well, how, what do you, like what sources, what, what type of stuff are you, uh, hitting up to, to gather Yeah. Um.
[00:39:34] Ed Fujawa: all over the place. Uh, there's some fantastic, uh, resources here in the city. And, uh, a few years ago I got a master's in library science and with a focus on Oh, right on ar, uh, archives.
And I have a, you know, that really gave me a new newfound respect for what archivists do and what local historians do and in, in processing these collections. But the main places I go to, historical society, state library, uh, Indianapolis Public Library, uh, state archives, and IU, uh, university Library, um, all those, not only in person you can visit and look at sources as, you know, you
oftentimes make some, if it's in the archives, you might have to make, uh, uh, arrangements.
Mm-hmm. But you can go in and look at things or their digital collections, which are constantly expanding, are fantastic.
[00:40:17] Michael Zarick: It's so interesting to think about how much information exists, but is not. Known.
Yeah.
That's like, it's funny to just think about that in this moment. Like, uh, thinking about IU Bloomington and how insanely large the library is and
all of these different places that hold information. Oh yeah. That is, that is just there
and make to be discovered to be, again, an that
again,
[00:40:43] Ed Fujawa: excellent way of putting it to be discovered and make it available.
And, uh, uh, I did a, uh, uh, I've made this reference before, but in regards to the state library, when the new building was constructed, one of the members of the building commission commented how, you know, state libraries like Indiana's, um, bulwark of civilization. And I love that phrase for libraries, just in general bulwarks of civilization.
'Cause not only do they retain this history, are shared history, the good and the bad. 'cause you've gotta take, you know, history is good, history is bad. You've gotta take it all. But it makes it available. It makes that knowledge available to everybody. It's not, you know. It, it doesn't matter what, you know, social class you come from, what race you are, it's all available and it's what really helps, you know, the civilization,
our civilization. Kind of the foundation of that to,
to, and, and you know, that, that phrase,
I mean I wish I could get that on t-shirts. It's just so appropriate for library. Library especially. Especially in this day and age up end
[00:41:32] Michael Zarick: up IPL. Maybe you can do a collab or something.
[00:41:35] Ed Fujawa: Actually, I should just make one myself. That's true too. My wife's a graphic designer. Might as well have her put something together. But, but yeah. Especially in this
day and age, you know, libraries with funding issues, you know, libraries are, and archives are incredibly important and, uh, they are, I think our bull works of civilization.
[00:41:51] Michael Zarick: Um,
Um, I do wanna give a quite a quick shout out, 'cause I thought this was an interesting tidbit. The name of your website, which is Class 900 Indy,
is the, the reason that name exists is because speaking of library science, um, 900 is the Dewey Decimal. Number
for just history in general. So the reason you named your website that.
It's very, I was actually thinking about this, it's very similar just like third spaced.
Indy
It's like, oh, this is just what
it is. Um,
you're like very, very adamant about about it
[00:42:22] Ed Fujawa: trying. And I have to, uh, anytime I give a talk anywhere I have to, uh, uh, kind of explain what that, what that means.
[00:42:28] Michael Zarick: But, uh, well, when I first go, because I knew be about the school 86 thing before saw your, um, website. Yeah. I was like, oh,
Class 900, like the last class at school, 86 or whatever. But obviously that's not true.
[00:42:43] Ed Fujawa: How did you, how did you hear about school 86? Like where did you hear about that?
[00:42:46] Michael Zarick: Oh, my wife, uh, oh. Shout out to Anna Darling. She, she's another one of your fans. We love like seeing your posts on Twitter about like.
uh, just random history stuff. Um,
she, I think you were posting about it, or maybe they did a news story recently or something. She works for, um, Fox 59.
Oh oh, shoot. Yeah. Yeah. I've
[00:43:07] Ed Fujawa: done,
[00:43:07] Michael Zarick: I've done.
[00:43:07] Ed Fujawa: I've
I've done some stuff with Fox 59. Yeah.
[00:43:09] Michael Zarick: So just be, I think through that.
She was like, Hey,
check out this guy. He is kind of cool.
And I said, yeah, he is kind of cool.
[00:43:16] Ed Fujawa: Well,
[00:43:17] Michael Zarick: Um,
[00:43:18] Ed Fujawa: high school me would've, would've been a shock by being called Cool, but I appreciate it now too. So,
[00:43:23] Michael Zarick: um, but again, like
the, that, that compliment that lady gave me, like the mundane is so exciting. you really like hype yourself up because what you're doing is so interesting
[00:43:33] Ed Fujawa: and, you know, it's like, it's telling the stories about Indianapolis because, you know, some of them are rather mundane.
If you can make 'em kind of interesting and get people like, oh, that's, I never knew that. Or I've walked past this building, or I walked past this area of the city, I've driven through this area of the city. Had no idea. And especially with like our neighborhood, you know, I, there's, you know, there's constantly changes.
You know, there's a lot of younger families moving in, older generations passing on. There's people who aren't familiar with the, with the history of the neighborhood. And that's what I'm hoping to do is kind of let them know about that history,
about our, especially the integration period, you know, the civil rights era in the neighborhood, and how that should, you know, how that's going forward, how we're still, you know, uh, tackling those issues.
Definitely. So,
[00:44:11] Michael Zarick: um, is there any, sorry, I hope this thing doesn't die. That would be unfortunate. Oh, the battery's getting low. I should have changed it. Oh, well I was just shouting two years. Yeah. We can share one
pass forth.
here. Um, is there just as sort of like the round out the history stuff, like is there any like.
Cool stuff you're looking into right now. Stuff you wanna talk about? Just off off the rip right here, I dunno.
[00:44:32] Ed Fujawa: Um, I'm trying to do stuff for, uh, I got my own podcast which has, you know, um, dozens of listens. Yeah, yeah. It's called Yesterday's Indianapolis. Uh, so I'm trying to find some more content for that.
I am gonna be expanding into doing some, uh, interviews with local historians, things like that. Um, and then I may have a, I've been talking to a publisher about possibly a second book. Um, I, I can't really say more than that right now 'cause it's kind of still up in the air, but I'm hoping to have something final on that in the next few weeks.
Otherwise, I am, I'm just working on blog posts. I'm gonna have a blog post, uh, uh, hopefully later this next week about, um, a statue down in Garfield
Park that I always was curious about. So. Oh, that's so funny. And I'm trying to do more South side stuff too, because as you noted, I a lot with Butler-Tarkington. I'm trying to expand, you know, especially since I grew up in Greenwood, I want to do some more south side.
[00:45:21] Michael Zarick: I have been speaking to as if I'm like some, some, uh, authority, but I've been speaking to people on the south side and they, uh, at least the ones I've talked to, feel that they have been, uh, neglected. Neglected is a great word. I, I'm trying to expand my offerings to hit up the south side. I am soon doing
[00:45:42] Ed Fujawa: that.
I, and I, I spent a Saturday a couple of weeks ago, uh, uh, driving around on the near south side and the far south side, taking pictures for various future blog posts that, you know, nothing in the next couple weeks is more like two or three months down the line.
But I do wanna do, like, areas like Fountain Square have been hit pretty heavily on the history front, um, by other folks. Mm-hmm. And uh, so I'm trying to do some other stuff
beyond that. Yeah. Try to expand the horizons of the blog.
[00:46:06] Michael Zarick: Um,
[00:46:08] Ed Fujawa: more canal stuff though. There's always gonna be more canal stuff. Geez man, I just love that damn canal.
[00:46:13] Michael Zarick: That's so funny. I've never seen, I've, the battery icon is empty. I've never seen that before, but it's still chugging
can pass this back and forth. Um, I had, oh, so I was talking to my mom this morning and, um,
[00:46:27] Ed Fujawa: it's always good. Call your mother.
[00:46:28] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Call your mother. Uh, and she's, she's one of the very few people, including my wife and one other person that I know has listened to every episode. Um. And so she's, uh, I've asked for feedback, uh, and one of the things I have been struggling with is this concept, or at least, uh, I, I like the idea of education.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and she actually gave a great suggestion this morning, which
which is I ask everybody, uh, what is a, what do you think a third space is like? What is a
third space to you? Do you know what a third
space is?
[00:47:02] Ed Fujawa: Uh, let's see. I think I, I remember
you saying something. When I first started listening to your podcast, was it like, uh, work home and then something else?
Yeah,
something like that. Something.
[00:47:10] Michael Zarick: I'm happy to explain
it again.
[00:47:12] Ed Fujawa: Why don't you explain it again, because I, I've
been struggling with that. That's perfect. I was thinking about that last night. This is a,
[00:47:17] Michael Zarick: a great opportunity. I'm so thankful that you don't know or you don't feel, uh, fully knowledgeable.
Yeah. Yeah. No, fire away.
Um,
so a third space, uh, so there's a guy who wrote a book. His name is Ray Oldenberg. He's a sociologist. I believe it was 1989, he published a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he makes a definition of a third place. I say space, but that's semantics. Um, so the concept of a third place is that you have three places.
The first one is your home. This is where you rest, where you recuperate yourself, where you live. Um, the second place is your work. This is where you do labor, where you generate money, where you work.
Yeah.
And uh, the third place is basically anywhere outside of those two places. It is important and vital that is outside of your home and your work because of those offer their own functions.
Any place outside those two places that you
go build community, you exist and you belong. And the primary. Activity in those places is conversation.
[00:48:32] Ed Fujawa: Okay.
[00:48:33] Michael Zarick: Does that, that helps out a lot.
Yes. I've been working on the explanation of this, uh, just because I think it's really important for this conversation.
So based on that, where do you think, um, for, maybe for yourself, but also just in, maybe in general,
yeah.
in Indianapolis, like what is a
good, maybe even historically I would love that. Um, like what are, where are these
places that
you think offer this sort of third space? Um, third, third space to.
[00:49:01] Ed Fujawa: No, that explanation helps a lot because I was kind of, I was debate, I was like, could history be a third, like a kind of a, it's not a physical, an amorphous, amorphous ex perfect term.
I was struggling to find a term for that. And I don't really think that applies. 'cause that is kind of my history. But it, I also, you know, that's kind of in my home at the same time. 'cause I, that's where I do a lot of my work. I think my third space, I'm gonna say my neighborhood, I'm in, you know, I'm, I'm active in the neighborhood association.
I do, I do a lot of community, you know,
you know, I work the polls, I work, uh, I go to, um, litter cleanups, I go to our neighborhood association meetings, um, things that. I walk around the neighborhood. I like to chat with people. I think that that's really kind of the third space. Are you a neighborhood?
Are man,
[00:49:43] Michael Zarick: like do you, I don't know what I mean by this, but do you like, walk up to your like. You seem to know a lot of people,
so like, if you see them out, you'll like walk up
and Oh, yeah. And say hello,
[00:49:51] Ed Fujawa: I'll stop by and chat and I'll wave at people and uh, um, if somebody drive, you know, somebody will honk their horns, they drive by, which has not happened today, but, you know, we're still here so it might happen.
Yet
[00:50:00] Michael Zarick: we're waiting for the police to, to shoo us off.
[00:50:03] Ed Fujawa: I, I think, uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't think they're gonna be too busy today, but, uh, next week when student move in starts Oh, that's true. And the week after that. But, um, so yeah, I think I would say my neighborhood and then like another space kind of greater Indianapolis, I'm gonna say it's more outdoors.
I, you know, you've probably seen, I like waterways. I just like moving water. I like nature, I like being out on the river. I like being by the canal. Mm-hmm. Um, I like taking pictures along the canal. It's just, especially go going through Butler, you know, on the side of Butler's campus, it's peaceful. Being out on the river.
There's sections of the river through the north side, which I mean, whether I'm fishing or taking pictures, I can just stand there and. Sometimes you can almost, the sound of traffic in the background almost goes away. And you're just, you, you realize you're in the middle of like 14th or 13th, largest city in the world, in
the country. Excuse me. And here you are standing on this beautiful river as a sun setting. Yeah. And it's just, it, it's, it's a lovely feeling. So I'm gonna say the outdoors, kind of the waterways mm-hmm.
Of Indianapolis.
[00:51:01] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I think Indianapolis has great, uh, hidden green spaces.
I'm gonna say hidden because they're kind of annoying to access, because most of the time you have to drive your car.
Oh yeah. Yeah. But there are, even just here at Butler, like just a nice green space that exists here is, is
[00:51:16] Ed Fujawa: very, and we do have a nice bike system. I was doing a lot of bicycle advocacy with, uh, Indy Cog, which is now, which became Bike Indianapolis. And then now they merged with Siva. But it was a bicycle advocacy group and I was doing a lot of work with them back in the, uh, early 2010s.
And I was also racing mountain bikes at the time, and I was, so, I was doing a lot of riding, but you know, from. Here in Butler-Tarkington, you can hit the Monon ride down, hit Fall Creek, ride out to Fort Bend, ride the mountain bike trails, come back again, all on trail. And it's, you know, you ride through beautiful park areas.
It's, it's fantastic. Um, but you're talking about like hidden green spaces? Uh, go to my blog and look up Woolen Gardens. W-O-O-L-L-E-N. It's a city park, but very difficult to access. Mm-hmm. You can either access it through a, by uh, going through a apartment complex or fording Fall
Creek. And I forwarded Fall Creek to get there.
But it's a nature area and it's purposely not been developed. Mm. But it's a beautiful, beautiful area and. You know, if you can get in, and especially during the fall, magnificent, uh, space, the visit,
[00:52:17] Michael Zarick: you have learned a secret here on Third Space Indy. I didn't know this, so you have to listen in to, to learn.
Um, okay, so one, one last sort of angle. Uh, uh, is
there a historical place you wrote Vanished Indianapolis? Is there a place that you know of that has vanished
That used to be a gathering space people,
[00:52:37] Ed Fujawa: van, that used to be a gathering space for, I even people, I mean outside.
[00:52:40] Michael Zarick: I would
say school, 86 would would've been
third place.
Yeah. Well, yeah, for children,
that's a place of work, but that's a different conversation.
[00:52:46] Ed Fujawa: No, actually school 80, I mean, any school, um, is, is gonna be that way. I'm trying to, I'm, man, I'm trying to think here.
That's a hard
[00:52:53] Michael Zarick: question to off the, well,
[00:52:54] Ed Fujawa: it's, I would say this might be low hanging fruit, but especially since sitting
staring at, literally staring at Butler right now, but, uh, Fairview Park.
Was definitely a gathering spot. I mean, yeah, I think
[00:53:07] Michael Zarick: there's a, Louisville has a place like that. 'cause it was like a, like a fairground almost.
Yeah. There was rides and stuff.
[00:53:12] Ed Fujawa: There were, there were rides in the early years, but then they, they definitely, there was like a merry-go-round and then there was a very limited roller coaster that used the hills and that eventually went away.
There were, but you could get boats on the canal. It was more of a na natural experience, but it was, at the time, it was far outta the city to allow people to travel up here, to get a breath of fresh air. And it was absolutely a gathering spot. I mean, there were concerts and the, you know, you had the train, you had the street cars going back and forth and you know, Butler still is a gathering place today, but it's, you know, a different
type. Mm-hmm. But I think, you know, if
you look at any
sort of, you know, Parkland natural space like that, that, you know, at one point, there's a lot of that, a lot of examples of those. And if we had another couple hours, I could certainly tell you about 'em, but
[00:53:52] Michael Zarick: we, I don't think we have that kind
[00:53:53] Ed Fujawa: time today. Yeah,
[00:53:53] Michael Zarick: I,
my Anna is like, you should get Ed as a recurring guest because he is like, there's so many, um, I mean Indianapolis is so big also, no offense.
There are other historians to talk to.
[00:54:04] Ed Fujawa: Oh, no, there absolutely are. And that's, and that's what I, and that's why there's certain areas of the city, like certain his history, historical topics that
I don't really dive into.
Mm-hmm. Because there's other historians doing a lot of great work.
Yeah. Actually, I don't wanna step on their toes because they're doing, you know, doing more, more work than I am on an area. That's their thing. Let them let, I want them to, uh, and encourage them to do that.
[00:54:22] Michael Zarick: Um, I have a story. I, I've not told this on the podcast.
I wrote it in the blog, uh, for the episode that came out last week. But, um, I met, uh, so through the podcast, my third guest, his name is Khaled Khlifi. Mm-hmm. I think you've probably listened at least that far. Yeah. And Khaled is Tunisian in descent. So he's, uh, Arab of Arab descent. And so he's related to the, uh, American Arab community here.
Mm-hmm. And he's drawn me in as well. I'm half Lebanese. Okay. And one day he invited me to lunch. And through that I eventually met. A guy named Dr. Edward Curtis. Yep. Do you know him? I do. Oh, okay. That's cool. Yeah. So Dr. Edward Curtis is a professor of Black, Muslim, and Arab American history at IU Indianapolis.
Uh, very kind guy. A great book. Just amazing. Uh, I have his book in my backpack. It's a good one.
Very good. Lemme tell you why I have book in my backpack.
I walked into this man's house, uh, I introduced myself. I said, hello, my name
is, did
[00:55:18] Ed Fujawa: he know you were coming?
[00:55:19] Michael Zarick: Yeah. He, he, he, well, he didn't know specifically I was coming.
He knew col he invited Khaled
First question. Who are who
[00:55:25] Ed Fujawa: are you? What are you doing here?
[00:55:27] Michael Zarick: That's a, that's a great question. Actually, just walked into this man's house.
Um,
I said, hello, my name is Michael Zarick, and he looks at me and he goes, Michael Zarick, like the Zaricks. And I said, what? And he, he walks over to his shelf, grabs his book that he wrote.
Arab Indianapolis, he hands it to me, turns the page, whatever, uh, first words says Anne Kurker Zarick was blank. Like a, a massive leader in the, uh, Arab American women's history of Indianapolis. Really? So my great grandmother. And then the few pages later it says, it says, uh, Waheeb Salim Zarick, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like amazing is a, is a, was a massive
in the Arab american. He's an Arab American
leader person. Like, so I sit, I walk into Dr. Curtis's house, introduce myself, and then it turns into like 30, 45 minutes of him talking to me about my great grandparents.
That is amazing. That is amazing. That is such a cool story. So speaking of other historians here in Indianapolis, specifically, ones who are, uh. Interest in, in Indianapolis history, there are so many people who have specific, um, interests mm-hmm. And specialties that it is possible that you could be a recurring guest. Uh, but it may not be in the context, context of just being a historian.
'cause there's so many to talk even. Um, I, I really respect Sampson Livingston mm-hmm. Who's over there doing walk and talks like he's for sure gonna be on the podcast. 'cause what he's doing is, is highlighting, speaking of IU Indianapolis and destroying a, a historical
neighborhood that is
his avenue, his his main area of work, um, or interest.
Um, so like talking about these, all these different aspects and angles of Indianapolis is what I'm really interested in. So yeah,
that's, yeah. Fantastic.
But anyways,
[00:57:27] Ed Fujawa: how,
[00:57:28] Michael Zarick: how's your battery doing?
It's still chugging. Um, so I, uh, I have a confession. I have broken the chain of, of. Asking questions, question of the, actually, so I do have a question to ask.
Okay. But they do have a question for you. Okay. Uh, so the question they had was,
uh, kind of, and this is, we probably don't, I I don't have anywhere to be, and we, we actually started early, so you probably have a little more time than I suspect.
But their question was,
uh, how did Indianapolis, like history start?
And I think that that question is very wide and hard to answer. Um.
Oh,
[00:58:09] Ed Fujawa: well. And then, you know, black screen four hours later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're still talking.
[00:58:13] Michael Zarick: But I, I think maybe to drill into this, like
I know you've written something about this, which is like, why was Indianapolis, I'm gonna
adjust the question slightly, like why
was Indianapolis picked to be, be here, here? Yeah.
Um,
In 1820. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then I guess the, that's a, that's maybe a much easier question to answer
that is that,
[00:58:39] Ed Fujawa: that's a little more narrow.
Um, well,
Indianapolis, uh, actually I just had a podcast. I kind discussed this as well. Um, there was nothing really here. We'll
[00:58:50] Michael Zarick: point people there.
[00:58:51] Ed Fujawa: Yeah. Well, in india, Indiana was a state. Our capitalism in Corydon down in southern Indiana. Oh, wow. Yeah. Shout out the
[00:58:57] Michael Zarick: butt drugs. May it rest in peace.
What was it? You know what butt drugs is?
The, in cordon Indiana, they used to have a pharmacy. I think it was owned
the butt family.
[00:59:06] Ed Fujawa: Oh wait,
yes, I have seen pictures of that.
[00:59:08] Michael Zarick: And now it's closed.
See, I always think got the
[00:59:10] Ed Fujawa: State House and the Civil War battle that was there. Battle of Corydon was there.
The only civil war battle in Indiana. I,
mine
[00:59:15] Michael Zarick: is way less serious. There used to be a, a pharmacy there called butt drugs.
[00:59:19] Ed Fujawa: No, I do, I do. I have seen pictures of that. Boy, that's, I completely forgot about that. Well, but any getting away from butt drugs for a moment. Um. This, the state's constitution anticipated that the population of Indiana, the Euro-American whites population would move north, would settle northward from the White River up north as the various Native American lands were, you know, treated way, take, you know, uh, mainly treaties, but at the same time, you know, taken.
Um, and they anticipated that. And the Constitution mandated that the state, the seat of government, the state capitol had, had to be moved by 1825. And in 1820, um, they sent commissioners up into, uh, present day, what was called a new purchase. It was an area that, uh, a Native American treaty that had gotten the land from the Lenape, the Miami, um, uh, various other, uh, native American groups into that, this area where Indianapolis is now to find a new seat of government.
And the White River was identified as a, as a spot early on. Not only White River being a river, the main river going through the central part of the state, but also they wanted a. Site close to the political center of the future state. So they started looking at a few sites in and around where Indianapolis is today.
Not only where we're sitting today, India or downtown. The mile square down that area was considered, uh, down by Waverly, down on, if you go south of the city on I 69, right near Highway 1 44, there's a bunch of hills. That was also considered some people also, there were also some sources that suggested, uh, uh, Connors Prairie was considered William Connor.
Oh, wow. Uh, his trading post up there was also considered as a site. But really the idea was you needed, they needed to be on a navigable river navigable. I actually have a talk coming up in, in a couple weeks or in September, about the navigability of the White River at the Indiana or at the, uh, Irvington Historical Society, um, and at the political center.
And that's how Indianapolis found its place. Because really before
that there were a few random settlers, you know, squatters basically. And, uh,
Native Americans of course, were in area of, but course the Lenape, uh, native Americans, their primary, uh, population centers were on the White River north of the city.
There was a few villages and, um,
[01:01:31] Michael Zarick: camps. So they at least attempted to not totally oust them, or is they'd
[01:01:35] Ed Fujawa: already been ousted.
they they were done.
You, I mean,
[01:01:38] Michael Zarick: that is just No, the, the
[01:01:39] Ed Fujawa: 1818, the 1818, uh, treaty basically ousted the depe off their lands, along the, uh, uh. Uh, White River up in and uh, Hamilton County and there and those areas. So
[01:01:49] Michael Zarick: tale as old as.
[01:01:50] Ed Fujawa: Exactly, exactly. But I do have a blog post about the Native American presence in and around Indianapolis at the time the city was founded.
And is there
[01:01:58] Michael Zarick: anything you don't have a blog post about?
[01:01:59] Ed Fujawa: Oh gosh. At this point, trust me. I mean, I can't remember how many I've got, but that's the thing.
It's common. Like, oh, I have a blog post about that. I just don't remember
all the details. Go read the blog post. But, um, but it actually explores the Native American presence and, um, talks about how there were still Native Americans in the area into the 1830s passing through and things like that. So, but that's how Indianapolis was chosen for this site.
[01:02:22] Michael Zarick: That's interesting to I, and you could ask that question of like, every city that's so like, yeah. I mean, Chicago, I mean, well, to an extent like Chicago, Louisville, these time. Types of places. It's kind of like obvious in a way. Yeah.
[01:02:37] Ed Fujawa: Chicago had, there was a fort, there was a river, was also a Native american village in the spot. In That location. Fort Wayne had a Native American village, and then Matt, Anthony, Wayne built up the fort there. Mm-hmm. Uh, Louisville, all those cities
along the river had, uh, Ohio River had river access. Yeah. Indianapolis had really nothing. It was just the
[01:02:52] Michael Zarick: navigable White River.
Yeah. Yeah. Well,
[01:02:55] Ed Fujawa: it was during high water.
You could, you could send things down the river, you just couldn't get back up here.
[01:03:01] Michael Zarick: So
[01:03:01] Ed Fujawa: So
So
[01:03:02] Michael Zarick: that's, yeah. So that, I, I guess it is unique in that way. That's so interesting. Yeah. When you, when you about in that, think about it in that context. Um um huh.
Yeah. Well, anyways, we are towards the end. One last question. As you know what question. Did you write one down? I did. I'm sorry. Oh my God. What a nerd.
[01:03:23] Ed Fujawa: I, uh, no, absolutely a nerd. I, no, I've been struggling with this. I've been thinking long and hard in my, uh, I will say I was kind of workshopping with my wife as well, but my is,
um, something, something that is no longer in indianapolis, like a restaurant, a bar, a cultural site, um, or even like a menu item at a restaurant that you miss and wanna tell people about.
[01:03:44] Michael Zarick: What if they're too new to know
[01:03:48] Ed Fujawa: something is
in their
hometown.
[01:03:51] Michael Zarick: Okay. Just, just in general. In general. Something you miss. Yeah, there we go.
I love that. If they're too
[01:03:54] Ed Fujawa: new to Indianapolis, just keep it general. That's a really good question. But they, even if you've been in Indianapolis for five years, there is something that you miss.
[01:04:00] Michael Zarick: I'm gonna answer way for Louisville. Oh, for Louisville. Okay. Alright. In Louisville, this is so stupid. It's so stupid. But I, it Louisville, I was a
kid, there was a see, you know, Gatti's pizza? Yeah. In
Louisville there was a place called Gatti Land. Gati Land, um, which is a Gatti's Pizza, but it was a buffet style, which I think Gatti's pizza is, but they had games.
So it was like a Dave and Buster's.
Dave and Buster's.
Dave and Buster's style Gatti land pizza's. Cool. Um, and you would go there for like every school field trip at lunch, go to Gatti Land. Whenever my brother would come home, uh, he would take his friends there. Like if he had friends from out of town visiting, he would just go to gland.
Like it was cheap. Is it like Chucky cheese? It was basically Chuck Show his pizza. It was basically Chucky cheese. But I loved it and I still like, have I hold onto this so tightly?
Mine is, minus is mine is the animatronics and the,
people dressed up. There's animatronics and everything.
It's just like, you know, crappy games where you get tickets or whatever and, and bad prizes, but Oh yeah. Yeah. I just, now there's like a, a crappy furniture store that I'm sure does find. Oh. But like, I would much rather Gatti Gattiland pizza.
[01:05:02] Ed Fujawa: Well, I grew up in, I grew up in Greenwood. We did have a show B Pizza, and then Chuck E.
Cheese. But what I always think back to is a restaurant called Fast Patties. It was at the corner. This is your answer. This, well, this is in Greenwood where I grew up. Okay. Yeah. Um, and it was, you know, we moved there in 89 and it was on the corner of. Fry Road and, uh, US 31 Northwest Corner. And man, the french fries there were fantastic.
The burgers, which were just these, you know, very unassuming looking burgers were just so, so tasty. And now it's a shell station. Isn't that so? It's always a car thing. It's, it's always a car thing. But man, that place was just, it was, I just remember going there because when we first moved there, it was so good.
And I, every time my, my wife will tell you every time we drive past it, I'm like, that's where Fast Patties was like, yeah, I know.
[01:05:47] Michael Zarick: That's so funny. All of my, it's so funny to think about, there's so many like random things in Louisville that I, that are just gone, that there was a place called like grinders or something like that.
They sold restaurant? No, it was called, I don't know,
[01:05:59] Ed Fujawa: sandwiches.
[01:06:00] Michael Zarick: They sold Grinder sandwiches, but it was called like Mar Marino. I dunno.
[01:06:03] Ed Fujawa: See, that's, that's every city. I mean, every city. I mean, just in Indianapolis, I've been here, you know, I mean, I've lived in the area since 89, but actually Indianapolis, you know, for the past 18 years.
Like our, the neighborhood, my wife and I, when we first moved to, when we, when we first got married at 17th and Central mm-hmm. There were a lot of empty lots. And there was like a house across the street from us that had just been constructed and was being sold for like 600,000. Mm-hmm. And a bunch of empty lots because the area was undergoing a change.
And now you drive through there and it's just you, you just don't recognize it. I mean, all these new houses and it's just, it's
the change that you see.
just the course of, you know, 15,
20 years
is
amazing, man.
they just die. We
[01:06:41] Michael Zarick: lost it.
We'll, back and forth. Okay.
[01:06:44] Ed Fujawa: Let
[01:06:44] Michael Zarick: Take off.
[01:06:44] Ed Fujawa: here.
[01:06:45] Michael Zarick: Hopefully it didn't save all that.
Hopefully. Well, if you need to, if you need to redo this, lemme know. I don't know when to die, but, um, yeah, I totally agree. But that was a incredible question. I think that even for anyone there, there's something, as long as they're above the age of five that they, that they missed. Um, so anyways, uh, thanks for joining me. Absolutely, Michael. Appreciate it. Um, where can the people find you Ed Fujawa? Uh, there's a lot of places.
Yeah. But
[01:07:16] Ed Fujawa: yeah, up, uh, you can find me, um, on Twitter, blue Sky, Instagram. I'm also on Facebook, but I don't do much there. Uh, also website class 900 Indy.com. And then also my, uh, my podcast, yesterday's Indianapolis, which covers various Indianapolis related topics. Um, and then check out my social media as well, because that announces where various speaking engagements I have one coming up in a couple weeks at the uh, Central Library talking about the history of Eagle Creek Reservoir. So always waterway stuff with me. I love waterway history. Transit history is fun, but waterway history is
[01:07:49] Michael Zarick: fishermen in training
[01:07:51] Ed Fujawa: well Wanna be? I mean, are you a fisherman if you just stand there and enjoy the view?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Why not? Yeah, absolutely.
[01:07:58] Michael Zarick: Uh, the other thought I had was that when you, when you get the answer to this question that you now have to go do research about whatever that thing is, the que not, uh, the question that you asked.
[01:08:08] Ed Fujawa: Oh, absolutely.
[01:08:08] Michael Zarick: Of the next person, you're gonna be like, oh, what the, I have to go find out about the old Gati land.
gati lamb Whatever the Gati land is for the next person.
[01:08:15] Ed Fujawa: Happy to do that.
[01:08:15] Michael Zarick: Um, but anyways, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. You can find me at third space Indy uh, dot com, actually, uh, third space Indy.com. I write a weekly blog for every episode. Have you read the blog? I have.
Oh, that's very nice. What did you thinking?
[01:08:33] Ed Fujawa: I like it.
[01:08:33] Michael Zarick: Oh, thank you. Um, you know,
[01:08:35] Ed Fujawa: the podcast's been fantastic to listen to too, so
[01:08:37] Michael Zarick: that's very kind of you to say. Um, yeah. Thursday, Indy.com. There's a blog You can put your email in, get the email. No one's done that, but that's okay. My mom sent me a hundred dollars 'cause you can pay me on there, but that I don't normally advertise that.
Um. And then also at Third Space Indy on instagram.com. I post clips. It's gonna be less now 'cause I did get a job. Shout out. Woo-hoo.
Uh, and the intro music is done by local artist Jennasen. The song Scared Rabbit is my intro song. Anyways, thank you so much for watching, listening, riding along, whatever you do. you do.
Uh, hope to share the next one with you. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. Awesome.