Ep. 18 - Adam Henze and Siren Hand - Owners of Indy Type Shop
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Intro
I’ve spoken before about what it takes to start a business. Small businesses like Indy Type Shop were not conceived as a typewriter store; it was born after years of passion invested into a side gig. Now they’ve just expanded upon that passion further and made it more concrete with a storefront.
At the beginning of the podcast, I wasn’t sure what types of businesses I would like to feature on the podcast, and even walking away a couple of months ago, I still didn’t have a fully fleshed-out idea about it. But now, after this episode, I want more Adams and Sirens on the show because they are mindful of not only what they are selling, but why they are selling it, and I think that’s deeply interesting. I really appreciated having them on the podcast, and I hope you enjoy our conversation.
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Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
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Important links and mentions
Indy Type Shop
Production learnings from the episode
I had some audio issues in this episode. Normally, I hold the handheld recorder and give my guests the lav microphone because it’s generally fairly consistent in terms of audio level. This week, because I had two guests for the first time, I gave them the handheld to hand back and forth, and it felt easier. Siren comes through really quietly, so that is why she sometimes sounds robotic, because I’m doubling her audio track to help boost her sound, and Adam is a bit quiet in some parts as well. I enjoyed the conversation either way.
Very soon™ I will have a new phone and an extra lav mic, so (1) most of the time I will no longer have to hold my own microphone, both me and the guests will be lav mic’d, and (2) if I have two guests, I can give the guests microphones and hold on to the handheld myself. I’m looking forward to this greatly. I just have to definitely make sure the phone is recording… which frankly I’ve been having trouble with.
The other thing here that I notice is the really, really flat lighting. It’s partially due to my older phone, but I really should get some portable lights for a bit more dynamic look. This is something I’m actively thinking about.
“A Lit Space for Rad People”
On the topic of writing. I am actually writing this blog very late in the day on Monday; I normally write it on Monday morning. If I were smart, I would edit the podcast and write the blog both a couple of days ahead of time, but I do not claim to be this type of efficient. This is the epitome of “fuck it, we ball”.
I write every one of these blogs alone, no support, no AI generation. The only parts of my podcast that are AI are the transcripts, the audio quality pass, and the only gen-AI piece, which is the show description you read below. I feel that I write enough and don’t need to take the time to summarize everything I already generated.
To this end, someone recently said to me that writing is the loneliest thing you really shouldn’t have to do alone, and I think that’s an interesting perspective. It’s hard to come in each week and think of something to write related to that week’s topic. It’s an excellent practice for me to internalize what we talked about, but also to share a little extra insight into my mind that I personally don’t feel I get to share fully during the podcast.
All of this to say, sorry that the blog is late, but I don’t feel bad about it. It’s quite a bit of labor to produce this podcast, and I’m always thinking of ways to streamline just that bit more and make it just a bit better. It’s a joy every week.
Thanks for reading.
Episode Summary
Revitalizing Community: Meet the Founders of Indie Type Shop
In this podcast episode, host Michael Zarick welcomes Siren and Adam, the founders of Indy Type Shop. The discussion covers the recent opening of their store in Indianapolis, which sells typewriters and rare books while fostering a sense of community among local residents. Adam shares his experiences with ear surgery and recovery, while Siren talks about balancing her job at IU's Humanities Institute with managing the store. They elaborate on the various activities and events hosted at the shop, including poetry slams, first aid trainings, and industry talks. The conversation also touches on the challenges of small business ownership, particularly the problem of poor communication from the city regarding construction. The episode concludes with a reflection on what third spaces mean to them as both a concept and a physical location, and their hopes for fostering deeper community connections through their shop.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
01:03 Meet the Owners of Indy Type Shop
02:12 Adam's Ear Health Journey
03:56 Siren's Professional Life
05:16 Flanner House and Community Programs
07:31 Indy Type Shop Offerings
10:35 Events and Community Engagement
14:40 Challenges of Small Business Ownership
18:36 Revitalizing the South Side
21:45 The Importance of Collecting and Stewardship
33:54 Community and Third Spaces
35:27 Community Space and Harm Reduction
36:37 The Concept of Third Space
36:45 Third Space in Women's Prisons
37:21 Third Space Indy Podcast
37:41 Self-Motivated Learning and Community
38:56 Challenges and Strategies for Third Spaces
40:06 Nostalgia and Lost Third Spaces
43:03 Interfaith Third Space During the Pandemic
45:49 The Value of Collectibles and Scriptocurrency
50:02 The Importance of Quality and Nostalgia
50:46 Video Games and Cultural Value
53:35 The Role of Advertisements in Third Spaces
57:50 Favorite Green Spaces
01:03:18 Upcoming Events and Closing Remarks
Episode Transcript
Adam and Siren
[00:00:00] Michael Zarick: When I first walked in, Adam, you shared this idea with me. You said in this store we are selling NFTs. I said, what have I walked into?
[00:00:10] Adam Henze: That's sort of what I said. I,
I said that we are taking something back that's been taken away from us.
Oh, this, this is my manifesto is,
oh, no, you, you,
[00:00:23] Michael Zarick: that's a charged word right now. Yeah.
so all
[00:00:25] Siren Hand: we are a lit space for rad people. We're a lit space for rad people.
So,
[00:00:30] Adam Henze: so,
[00:00:46] Michael Zarick: Hello. My name is Michael Zarick. This is Third Space Indy. In this podcast, we talk to community builders, leaders and organizers all over Indianapolis who are trying to make the city a better place.
Today we are talking to Siren and Adam, the owners of Indy type Shop. Hello, which opened very recently. Hey, everybody. You guys are really hitting the podcast voice. Uh, Indy type shop opened a couple months ago, and I don't really recall how I came across it, but since I did, I visited just after it opened.
Uh, introduced myself and then learned, uh, substantially more about Siren. And Adam and I just happened to have just started the podcast at that time. Mm-hmm. We didn't
[00:01:30] Adam Henze: see you at the rare book fair. Was that something else?
[00:01:32] Michael Zarick: The Rare Book fair? Oh, I guess not. No. I don't even know what that is. We'll have to talk about that.
We'll talk
[00:01:36] Siren Hand: about a couple of the things that we do, but, uh, we were really happy, uh, to be featured with Indianapolis Monthly and with Mirror Indy. We had a lot of opportunities that way. And so I think that when we intro, when when you and I were introduced to each other, Michael, I think that that's, that's how you came about to us.
But we got to meet up in the store and spend some time and
[00:01:56] Michael Zarick: definitely introduced that way. And I've been through a couple times, always ride the bus. It's on the red line. Important point. Very important. Uh,
[00:02:03] Adam Henze: but
[00:02:03] Michael Zarick: anyways. Hello Siren. And Adam, hi. Tell me a little bit about how you're doing and then just share some words about Indy type shop.
[00:02:11] Adam Henze: We're doing great. Uh, I just had surgery a few days ago, and so
we tell 'em
[00:02:17] Michael Zarick: what you got surgery on though.
[00:02:18] Adam Henze: Uh, so
uh,
yeah, I got surgery on my ear.
Uh, this was a follow-up surgery. I, uh, found out I had a, a mass behind my left eardrum earlier this year, and they, uh, got
out of there very quickly. Uh, and then this was a followup surgery to make sure that I am cancer free and that the mass is gone and they put a prosthetic middle ear in. So I, I don't know how I was hearing without the middle ear bone, um, but I was, but somebody maybe can, you know, comment and tell us how the inner anatomy of an, of an
eardrum works.
[00:02:55] Michael Zarick: Every, every opening of my podcast, we end up talking about things that are not community focused. And I think it's, but like you just didn't have.
An ear bone. Yeah. In the middle. And you could hear out of that ear perfectly fine.
[00:03:07] Adam Henze: Uh,
so I had, I have what's called conductive hearing loss, so it feels like some cotton, like a wad of cotton is in there.
But I could still hear without a middle ear bone 'cause the, um, the big old mean growth ate it like, so basically just ate my
ear.
[00:03:22] Michael Zarick: How's your ear doing now?
[00:03:23] Adam Henze: Uh,
doing good. Um, the big thing is over the, um, last several years I've had a lot more chronic pain and now my pain's gone. So when the doctor said that this neck surgery I might actually get to restore some of my hearing, I didn't even know that was a thing, you know, a few years ago. Technology's pretty crazy. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I've just been excited about being pain-free and so I'm, uh, skeptically optimistic about, um, um, you know, getting some of my
hearing back.
[00:03:51] Michael Zarick: I'm so glad. Let's go. Yeah. Siren. What's up with you?
[00:03:54] Siren Hand: Oh,
gosh, a lot. Um, so between the type shop, I also, um, have a job with the IU Indianapolis or.
To Humanities Institute. Mm-hmm. We have, I'm a program manager for a felon grant program mm-hmm. Called Speculative Play and just Futurities. Mm-hmm. So it's about how do we seriously play towards, uh, research outcomes that improve quality of life. So really, really cool. Um, we invite scholars in for a month.
This month we've got David Tru, uh, David Trujillo from LA and Kat Mahari. They're talking both with their projects on, um, at Indiana Humanities on the 16th. They're talking with their projects on one of them, David Trujillo is Many May Not Return, which is a play, um, set and wondering about the intergenerational conflicts, um, and wars that the country's involved in and how it affects the family unit.
And then Kat Mahari is dancing choreography, working on sugar in the raw down from Chicago. Oh yeah. So it's been a lot of kind of coordinating between that job and the type shop. I know Adam's got his other job too, uh, with Flanner House, so shout out to, to all of the community that's given us love mm-hmm.
Uh, to help make a new type shop happen. Definitely. It makes a huge difference.
[00:05:11] Michael Zarick: Yeah.
tell me a little bit about Flanner House and your work,
[00:05:14] Adam Henze: Uh, I don't
[00:05:15] Michael Zarick: really know.
[00:05:15] Adam Henze: Yeah. So Flanner House is one of the oldest black resource centers in the Midwest, in Indiana.
Um, we are celebrating our 120. Seventh birthday, it might be 120 eighth. I think it's
[00:05:26] Siren Hand: the hundred 28th.
[00:05:28] Adam Henze: I think it's hundred
20. It's one
of 'em that's a longstanding institution right
there. Um, so, uh, it was created in 1898. So someone will get down to the bottom of that. They can figure out that's a hundred twenty seven seven years, or 1 28 years if it ends in eight. And we're on
[00:05:42] Michael Zarick: the five year, that's seven.
[00:05:43] Adam Henze: Yeah. Hundred 27th year. Uh, so I, uh, work with Flanner Farms. We have a reentry program called Feed. It's a hybrid, uh, reentry program and workforce development program. So it is open to, um, teens and young adults, ages 15 to 25, who have had some different hardships. So some of my kids are on an ankle monitor or might be sleeping in the park or, you know, have not been in school for some reason.
So, uh, it's a. The, the kids, uh, get paid to learn on an urban farm in the morning, and there is a track to learn other trade skills like, uh, construction, auto technology, uh, retail. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, urban agriculture. Um, uh, we've got a coding program and then they can also get their high school equivalency, and that's a partnership with Indy Reeds.
Mm-hmm.
And
then I am their in-house literacy, um, expert. So we have a poetry slam program, uh, poetry and open mic, uh, writing program. Uh, we've got a, a gaming program
and I
work, um, with the young people. And then I also help do some programming for Ujama Community Bookstore. And on top of that, I have a, um, literacy, uh, program in the women's prison that I'm starting my, I think,
[00:07:07] Michael Zarick: I
[00:07:07] Adam Henze: think, uh, 12th,
[00:07:09] Michael Zarick: 12th
[00:07:09] Adam Henze: year. I think my 12th year.
I
[00:07:10] Michael Zarick: feel like every time I come into the shop and I speak to you, you are doing an additional thing.
[00:07:16] Adam Henze: Yeah. That's fair.
[00:07:17] Siren Hand: Quite possibly. Yeah.
[00:07:18] Adam Henze: Yeah.
It's always like, I can do one more thing and then I try to stop doing another thing. Like, ah, you should keep, probably keep going at,
[00:07:26] Michael Zarick: please take time for yourself. That's to you Adam, but also the people out there. Yeah. Um, but more specifically about Indy type shop.
You guys sell typewriters. You sell books. Yeah. You sell comic books? Yeah. You sell graphic novels?
Yes.
You sell. A hot chocolate we saw. Yeah.
[00:07:46] Adam Henze: Yeah. What else do you sell? Uh, so our, um, I I, I like to hear siren talk about this part too.
So I'm, I'm gonna pass the mic and give
up a second.
[00:07:56] Michael Zarick: Simon's the facilities manager of the in type shop, something.
[00:08:01] Siren Hand: So in this space it's curated. Uh, Adam does a phenomenal job curating it and, and putting his PhD in literacy practices to, to the test. Um. So all throughout the store, what we specialize in, of course, is typewriters.
We do sales, service and repair, and then we also rent it out. So if somebody's not quite sure they wanna purchase a typewriter, they're always welcome to sit with us for an hour, rent out that, that, uh, typewriter or typewriters, and be able to play free play on 'em. We
We
do secondhand and vintage books. And, and like you were saying, Michael, we've got our undergrounds, our pulps, we have rare signed first edition copies, including things like a,
bl
uh, a Battle Creek sanatorium letter.
Um, not just the stationary that it was on, which of course is h historic itself. Mm-hmm. But the letter and the contents of it tell you about, uh, patients within the patients within the facility. Um, we have an exorcism narrative from 1928 in the rare collection, like it's all sorts and we're getting ready for spooky season.
spooky season.
along with that, Adam has also. Gotten our, um, monster collection up with the undergrounds and magazines, our vintage publications. Mm-hmm. So, of course you can always come in here and chill with us. We do have internet, but we also have our teas and our hot cocoa selections, so that way you can have a cup of something, uh, while you're coming through.
And if you're not quite sure what you want to explore, we do have our first Friday open mic and a couple of other events that the store hosts back in the rear room for
event
[00:09:38] Michael Zarick: space.
Thank you so much for sharing. Of course. I, you guys are such, uh, multifaceted individuals. You like your story about. Uh, and maybe I'll ask you to share a little bit about that, but your story about how you sort of got to the point where you wanted to open a typewriter store, um, and then go what el We can't just sell typewriters, but you also like had a bunch of.
You told me that your garage was your storage facility, so you had a bunch of these rare books and things already locked and loaded. Absolutely. Um, and then, so this is a book nerd book and writing Nerds Haven. Absolutely. Uh, in a lot of ways. And I, I find that very, um, pleasant. But beyond that, like where we're sitting right now on this tiny little stage you use for things We do.
Yeah. What, what things do you use it for? What things have you used it for?
[00:10:34] Adam Henze: Have you used it for things yet? We, we, we, we have used it for a couple things. We just, last weekend for example, we started our, um, poetry open mic series. So that's gonna be every first Friday of the month at 8:00 PM We have a really awesome, um, mc who has been spearheading that show.
His name is King Richard, Richard Bowman, and I host another poetry open mic at Ujaama currently. It's a family friendly show. So down here at Indy Type Shop, we're doing a
grown folk show. This is gonna
[00:11:08] Michael Zarick: be the, the adult hour. The adult hour.
[00:11:11] Adam Henze: hour. It,
It's gonna be later at night on a Friday, you know, um, we're gonna do a partnership with, um, Parkside Public House to have some spirits available at the show.
So, uh, this upcoming show, we're gonna have a, um, um,
grown and sexy poetry slam,
yo. So, uh, asking people to share some erotica and some, some stuff that's just a little bit more adult. Um, so we're definitely gonna be having some things that are family friendly and then some things that are, you know, just, just just for the grown folks.
So then we also, um, hosted, um, Genesis Literary Magazine. They were, um, we were, uh, the first event for Festival 4 5 1.
That's, uh, Ray Bradbury's Festival. And, um, once again, Sarah could probably tell you better about that than me.
Uh,
and then we also hosted a really awesome. Comic book artists and special effects artists.
Mm-hmm. His name is Ryan Oliver. Um, he came and did an industry talk, and so we're gonna have more industry talks with people who are in different, um, um, genres and do different mediums of, um, creative art. We're gonna have those in the future as well. There are some other events that we've had, uh, my dear.
Oh,
[00:12:22] Michael Zarick: so many of these look at, look at that. Pass off.
[00:12:24] Adam Henze: Yeah. It's a sweet, sweet pass
[00:12:25] Siren Hand: off. Uh, we've had a couple of interesting events, so not just, um, mirror Indy coming in and a dozen reporters on typewriters, which I don't know if you can picture that sound, but brilliant. That's funny. Um, but then also we're really into organization activate, uh, activism.
Harm reduction as well. And so we've done things like, um, community first aid trainings or safety training specifically. Um, voice night works with trans mask, uh, trans max groups and gatherings here in Indianapolis. And so we did a safety class where it was just learning how to distribute weight and, and be safe in numbers regardless of the numbers.
So we took, while the front of the store has our retail, our desks, a lot of our typewriters, this backspace behind the pocket doors has a little bit of privacy. And it also has the ability for us to gather in community, talk about issues, and really kind of nail out some of, some of the considerations that we have as we're working in and living in Indianapolis together.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
That was really cool. And then it also leveraged some of that veteran knowledge that my buddy and I had. We were throwing each other around back here and it was a lot of fun.
[00:13:42] Adam Henze: Uh, we also had a playwright do a stage reading here. We had a couple poets from Chicago come and do, um, a book signing and do a performance.
Um,
yeah, we've done, we've done a couple other fun things
and
[00:13:55] Michael Zarick: this is like. This is within, when did you, you opened in like
[00:13:59] Siren Hand: May,
[00:14:00] Michael Zarick: may. May officially, yeah. Yeah.
And you are that you've done so much in such a short amount of time that I personally am interested to see how you grow and evolve. Because every time I come in here, there's a new shelf.
You, I walked into your building, this shelf that I'm looking at over here. Every time I walk in, there's a new shelf, there's a new, um, physical space change. Sure. And if you think of, you are always evolving the physical space, thinking about how you're always evolving this space as a community is also really interesting.
It's like we have our little spiral house. It's fun. Um, talking about the desire to, to keep going, to keep evolving. Mm-hmm. To last a long time, you actually recently said, oh, uh, the road is shutting down outside. Yeah.
Yeah, that was
[00:14:48] Siren Hand: news. It was news for our neighborhood and news for us as small business owners too.
Mm-hmm. And so yeah, we, we learned about that, uh, what, a week prior, I think. Um,
[00:15:00] Adam Henze: well, yeah, but it's, it's the, now the road is supposed to be closed, but it's, but we're open, not closed. So that was our bigger fear too, is we know the road is going to close and the big concern is that they've not been clear in the communication.
So the road was supposed to close on the eighth
and what today is the, say the, the
The 15th. Uh, the 14th. 14th. So that's also, and they said it's gonna be at this set amount of time, but that's already not been the time. So are they gonna, it's the
of
of small
[00:15:33] Siren Hand: business ownership,
[00:15:34] Adam Henze: are they just gonna decide to close the road like the week of Halloween, for example, or, you know, closer to Christmas?
Um, so yeah,
Um,
long story short, for people who are
listening
to the podcast and they're just like, what are you talking about?
Uh,
the city dropped off some signs
uh,
the road letting people know that the road would be closed right in front of our shop, um,
uh,
starting last week. And we get, got no heads up about it.
Our landlord and, uh, the different shop owners here had to kind of scramble around and try to find it. We even had, um, a news station call around and
so
we were on Fox 59 news, um, and um, they, you know, uh, online it says they're gonna be close a month on the phone.
They said it's gonna just be a week. The sign says it's this date. But that hasn't happened yet. So we don't really know.
[00:16:29] Siren Hand: I think the biggest
thing
about that is just, it's not about the repairs, because it's obvious that throughout Indianapolis, we need repairs,
so
I mean, it's not about the construction. What it is about though is the communication around the construction. Mm-hmm. And, uh, not just at the landlord level, but but down to the small business. Businesses. And so we spent a couple of weeks, you know, uh, the past couple of weeks trying to navigate that.
And, uh, hopefully whenever the road
construction does come through, we'll be ready to go with
[00:17:05] Michael Zarick: it. Yeah. And for someone like me who is deeply interested in
[00:17:11] Adam Henze: the
[00:17:13] Michael Zarick: reformation of our infrastructure,
mm-hmm.
[00:17:16] Adam Henze: mm-hmm.
[00:17:16] Michael Zarick: it's, it's difficult for me, especially as not a, a small business owner, to picture the effects that a substantial amount of time, of a road being closed, how that affects you. And for you guys, you guys have. Uh, not only your own shop, but you have a small community of shops here on this block. What block are we on?
[00:17:37] Adam Henze: Shelby? Um,
[00:17:38] Michael Zarick: Shelby and, or like just south of Shelby and Southern. Yeah, just south of Garfield Park. Yeah. Um, so you've got, you've guys, we've got Pen and Pink, the other bookstore the street, right?
Mm-hmm. You've got
[00:17:50] Adam Henze: Parkside Parkside Public House,
Cafe Babette the Bakery, ser,
um,
there's Serendipity Plants. Mm-hmm. Uh, there is the, uh, what is the barber called?
[00:18:00] Siren Hand: So we've got, oh, that's Ms. Mays.
Mays. Um, Ms. May
miss Barbershop across the way. Garfield Park Barbershop. Um, and then, yeah, there's Ceremony,
Tattoo. Mm-hmm. And then also Cafe. Be bet.
[00:18:11] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
So when you think about this effect from a personal standpoint, not only is it affecting you personally, it's affecting your business cohort, I guess, but also your friend, these people are your friends in many ways.
Uh, I've seen you interact with them and like, does that, um, affect you in some way?
[00:18:30] Adam Henze: Uh, yeah. I, I think, I think the combination between kind of our,
kind
of our growth goals for the neighborhood and then just how the, um, city is impacting those things is. We, we traffic and nostalgia, right? That's like our main thing. But we are also very much, uh, believe in transformation and we do believe we are changing neighborhood, right?
Like if our store used to be a gun store and then it was a burner cell phone store, and then it sat vacant for a long time and then after several years all of these vacant shops are becoming vibrant again. It does change the neighborhood, right? And the one thing that I think is positive about our circumstances, all of the shop owners here, we all live here.
We all live in this neighborhood, so, mm-hmm.
Siren.
And I live three blocks around the corner.
The
people who in Parkside live here, Laura, from Pen and Pink, she lives right around the corner. Um, so you know, it is a process of gentrification. It is what it is, but we feel like we have been in conversation with.
with
community members here who want those kind of things. And we also have a responsibility as shop owners to be thoughtful about the changes that we do want
to make and
clearly communicate those to people, right? Mm-hmm.
[00:19:55] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:56] Adam Henze: So we also hope that there is some kind of reciprocal communication from the city,
not
just in terms of, you know, construction, but another very political thing happening right now is the encampments right now that are being pushed around Pleasant run.
They're
being pushed around Fountain Square. So some of the people from those encampments are being
pushed down here, they're being pushed more north.
Just to pause
[00:20:24] Michael Zarick: real quick, you, when you say encampment, you mean unhoused encampments. Unhoused encampments. Yes. Correct. Correct. Thank you. Not just random camps of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no Raiders
yeah, yeah.
[00:20:31] Adam Henze: no
Raiders
or
[00:20:32] Michael Zarick: anything like that,
[00:20:33] Adam Henze: know? Um, and that is, you know, when issues in a city happen, I think that. Uh, people just want to get to the end result so that we can like, go back to normal. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And that we can, like, you know, everybody can go back to shopping, but we think that their, uh, bookstores, for example, are
Meeting
spaces where people can
dream
about change and think about things and try to fix problems.
And
so we think that it's important for us to be very, very clear in our communication when we are trying to put a show together or just to like, have events here because we are trying to influence, you know, there's this kind of, um, word influencer now, but like, we want to influence people. We want to, um, share our morals, we wanna share our values, and we think that because we are taking, um, ownership of the space here, that we need to be very clear and communicative
about the space specifically.
[00:21:37] Michael Zarick: Bang here.
[00:21:38] Siren Hand: I don't know if I have
[00:21:39] Michael Zarick: anything else to add.
[00:21:39] Siren Hand: to add. Like
Dr. Henze you put the cherry on that one. I don't, I don't think I have anything to add that you,
[00:21:45] Adam Henze: I,
I did, I did wanna say something more about, um, collectorship, you were kind of talking about this being a collector's dream, um, and kind of why we got
into other kinds of collecting besides just typewriters.
And I love collecting. I think it's very, very important. I've been really getting, I've been really trying to use this word stewardship more like that we are the stewards of this literature and of these items. Mm-hmm. And if we care about honoring the past, we need to kind of herald these things into the future so that other people can, um, share them.
But in my time, like I was a young kid that like loved video games and comic books when I was a kid and I loved
young kid go to movies?
you know, when I was like, you know, seven, eight years old, no more.
No, I'm 42 now. I'm just a big kid now.
still,
He still en, he still enjoys all the same,
but the, but the big difference between I think collecting when I was eight and collecting when I'm 42 is like
collecting has gotten so commercial, right?
Mm-hmm. Like you can, you can go to a store now and buy all of your comic book stuff. You can just go to a store and buy Disney stuff and you know, DC Marvel stuff and Pokemon and all kind of stuff like that. And you know, you know, like Lego, like there's all, whole stores get dedicated to, and I think that there's a positive thing to that because, um, you know, things that we had to search for in the underground, now you can kind of just go online.
You can shop for anywhere. But at that same time, it's hard not to feel like you're just buying a bunch of logos. You're buying a bunch of merchandise instead of like, um, earnest things. So we've really turned to this like. Like,
Old literature and, you know, um, old zines and, um, fun things that are kind of punk rock and, um, underground and, um, you know, these kind of gems uh, people ask us like if we have band books in the
store, and I think we have the books that people don't even
think to ban in the store because like you, you know, it's like, um, um, old weird, like sci-fi novels and Detective Pulps and stuff like that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I, we want to bring back kind of, um, a
culture of collecting that is, um, divorced from like branding and, you know, kind of some kind of like corporate influence. So hopefully there's more individual
Sure.
individuality there.
[00:24:14] Siren Hand: We're also really curious about the roots of where things come from.
Mm-hmm. Like we really, in being a steward, we want to really respect the context that these publications, these literary works, came to us.
But then we also want to connect it to our present day. And as Adam said, bridge it towards the future too. So will you see Disney stuff in the store? Yes. You'll see the, the vintage and the classic Kids picture books.
And you'll see not just that though, which is easy to get to. Pardon, easier to get to. But we also have World War II sheet music that has Donald Duck throwing a tomato at the fearers phase, you know, and this was sheet music that, um, was used like during movies, during World War II as people were going to the movie theater, you know, in order to get, um, get the information out and in order to communicate that.
So we've got a copy of the sheet music, or we've got, um, trench art war, uh, trench art from World War ii.
ii,
From a private, uh, eu
uls.
and by these little signatures in these names, we actually now with the power of the internet, get to look at our timestamps and our postmarks and we can see where things are from and maybe even get in touch and get more information about it.
It's a
cool process. We really enjoy it.
[00:25:39] Michael Zarick: Interesting.
I also wanna push back on something you said, Adam, um, you said, yeah, you, you said We are gentrifying. Our neighborhood. Mm-hmm. I don't agree with that. Hmm. Okay. As someone who lives here. Interesting. Uh, you who lives here, I don't live here. Um, to me, gentrification, the process of gentrification is pushing out those who live there.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I would argue that this is more of a revitalization, a rebirth, a a move towards progress of the south side, which is actually something else that I wanna talk about. Okay. Um, when I first came in, you mentioned to me something around the lines of the south side as you see it, Garfield Park as the south side, um, is sort of wronged or like othered or pushed out of the sort of, uh, mainstream view of Indianapolis.
I want you to share thoughts on that.
[00:26:34] Adam Henze: I don't even know if they're, I mean, I, I don't even know if they're pushed out or not. They're just like not even thought about. Mm-hmm. Like it's, um, I, and this goes back to, um.
you know,
Kind of the frustration about the city's communication with the, um, uh, with construction is it's, is our livelihoods here just an afterthought to other people?
Right. Um, and what we want to do,
[00:27:01] Siren Hand: so one example for this, and I'm going to pass the mic back to Adam as well, so we could keep answering, but I mean, we talked a little bit about the roads with Shelby Street, but this is a working, this was a working class neighborhood. Mm-hmm. Um, at least in our neck of the woods and near being creek.
And so there was, there was issues with potholes. It all started with the
potholes, right? Doesn't it always. It always. Right. But what had happened was in one week over the winter, Adam, myself and our neighbor had each received at least one flat tire. And I say at least, because I think you got two and our neighbor got two as well.
[00:27:41] Michael Zarick: Yeah.
[00:27:42] Siren Hand: Part of it is because the potholes, but then another part is like the snowplows don't come as consistent as consistently. The working class neighborhoods have smaller, smaller roads. It's a lot harder to kind of coordinate these efforts. Mm-hmm. But it does start with the communication aspect. And so there's the mayor's advice line as far as, uh, potholes, you can raise complaints.
That was one thing that was communicated to us after, afterwards and after, like, I think that there were a certain number of reports that had to be raised on the same pothole, but then also like scheduling and communication around those. It's been a growing process over the past five years or so. Um, and we're talking neighborhood wise, not even small business wise.
Of course, we opened back in May ourselves, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:28:29] Adam Henze: And we just get this like feedback that like not much is going on on the south side, and it's just like, it's just not true. Like. You know, um, Garfield Park has one of the largest farmer's markets in the state.
It's
a wonderful farmer market.
It's,
it's huge. And, um, you know, when we come down on Saturdays, like it's all buzzing down here and people are lined up at Baba to get food. You know, like Parkside Public House is now one of the top rated restaurants in the city. You know, today has been a buzz because, um, tube Factory had its, um, Sunday concert and they have a, it's a, it's a no really, paying nothing, um, um, market.
So like, it's a, the
[00:29:07] Michael Zarick: really free
market. The really free, yeah.
[00:29:10] Adam Henze: The really free market. I haven't been
[00:29:11] Michael Zarick: yet, but I wanna go. yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:13] Adam Henze: Um, so it's, you know, and we hear so many people about, like, going down to Shelby Street Tavern, that's like one of the new really, uh, cool hangouts now that, now that they have new ownership.
[00:29:23] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:23] Adam Henze: Um, It's just when people are saying that there's nothing going on down here, I'm just like, you're wrong.
There's so, and
even
[00:29:31] Michael Zarick: if there wasn't,
even if there wasn't, you support. The area. So there can be
[00:29:37] Adam Henze: Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
[00:29:38] Michael Zarick: Yeah.
[00:29:39] Siren Hand: How about that?
And we're really excited with the stores that are opening up around us.
'cause we've got Parkside and serendipity.
Mm-hmm.
We've also, we've also got stores opening on either side of us, one of which is going to be vintage decor and clothing. And then the other one is going to be oddities, curiosities, costuming, and tailoring. It's just in time for spooky season in the holidays.
Yeah. And so it's by having people come out and just be curious, just come and explore. It really goes to show not only was the area growing, it's continuing to grow, like get in while it's early. We wanna, we wanna build community with you and, and let you into our little, little bookstore owner shop.
Yeah. Are guess are you guess coffee?
[00:30:24] Michael Zarick: Coffee folks?
[00:30:26] Siren Hand: Coffee folks?
Yeah.
Yeah. So I am not, not Dr. Enzi, uh, has had to, has had to. To cut back on the coffee. But we've got, I mean, I was thinking
[00:30:36] Michael Zarick: of Helm Helm Coffee down the street is like really, really popular. And the guy who runs it is like really passionate about coffee.
Mm-hmm. As far as I know.
[00:30:44] Siren Hand: And they're also part of the Indy Rainbow Chamber of Commerce. We're one of the members with them as well. And so, like, all up and down Shelby Street, you have different networks of overlapping stores mm-hmm. That have, that have kind of, uh, informed each other. So we get to work with them.
We get to work down with Shelby, uh, Shelby Street Tavern.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's just like you're saying, it's a revitalization of the area that really pulls the whole street together. Mm-hmm. Instead of just focusing on one area,
[00:31:15] Michael Zarick: it really ties the street together. Really ties, it really ties the street, the street together.
Um, amazing. I ate at Parkside Public House for lunch. Yeah. What'd you have? What'd you have? Ooh, I had the burger of the month.
[00:31:29] Adam Henze: What is the burger of the month? I have not had it yet.
[00:31:32] Michael Zarick: Wait, is the month, the month is only halfway over. Right. So by the time this comes out, um, they had burger occasion, burger last month of the month for September.
Parkside public house is a chorizo burger with queso like, like runny queso and um, pickled red onions.
[00:31:53] Adam Henze: That's right. I think, I think they mentioned that to me the other day and I
scared 'cause I
just, I had to go
things and that seemed like a not drive around the city type of burger to have.
[00:32:02] Michael Zarick: I I
brought it here, wherever, whatever that means.
Okay. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And then I had bread pudding, which I'm a bread, I'm a bread pudding. Uh, I think we have an issue like that's just, that's, I should not have access to that dessert. Um,
[00:32:19] Siren Hand: there's
is really good. And not only that, like Parkside a phenomenal place. Every time I go in, I really, I really do try to get something different.
Mm-hmm. And then I keep coming back to the same. Um, two comfort food dishes. So like the chetty and the, um, the patty melt are my two
[00:32:36] Michael Zarick: favorite dishes. I did get the patty melt last time, uh, when we first met when I was unemployed. I should not have gone there. But, uh, and it was really, really good. So, but
[00:32:46] Siren Hand: that is a good comfort meal for like, I mean, if you're, if you're unemployed or even if you're not,
[00:32:51] Michael Zarick: sometimes you need a little, get some good comfort.
Sometimes you need
a little something to keep you going.
[00:32:56] Siren Hand: Mm-hmm.
And, and I gotta give the staff a shout out too. You, because like, so Michael, when we met. We had just barely gotten like all of our walls and a couple of bookshelves up Parkside from the beginning while we were setting up. Even the walls to this place would bring food over at all hours of the night and check in with us and see if we need anything.
Like that's kind of the Yeah. The coolness and, uh, of being in a small community collaborative space like this. Mm-hmm. So we really appreciate
[00:33:26] Michael Zarick: it. I won't name names, but I have noticed that, uh, also up where I live, that sometimes there's some, some trading of goods going on. Mm-hmm. I won't name names because I don't want anyone to get in trouble, but it's, it's going on.
It's not, it's not,
[00:33:38] Siren Hand: it's not trouble, it's just strategy. Like,
[00:33:41] Michael Zarick: I'm just saying. I don't wanna name names. So the employees who are doing it well, that's right.
[00:33:45] Siren Hand: That's
[00:33:45] Michael Zarick: fair.
Um, great. I have a question. This is a, a new running question. Okay. New-ish. Um, what is a third space to you?
And you can both answer. I'm sure answers.
Well,
Well,
[00:34:02] Adam Henze: as I define third space in my dissertation,
No, gonna,
uh, I'm trying to remember what I did. Um, why don't you,
why don't you go first? You have an
[00:34:11] Michael Zarick: dissertation.
[00:34:12] Adam Henze: I actually, uh, yeah.
[00:34:13] Michael Zarick: On third spaces,
[00:34:14] Adam Henze: uh, yes.
[00:34:16] Michael Zarick: I, we've never
[00:34:17] Adam Henze: talked about this.
No, I know. We, I know. That's my whole, that's my whole shtick.
Most of the time when I mentioned my dissertation, people just like, their eyes glaze over and they they don't want to hear about it, but yeah.
Um, so my
dissertation was on,
uh, preserving poetry spaces. Um, and Oh,
well, that's
right. You did mention
this Um, so I had to kind of define, um, third space and get into Oldenburg and all that kind
stuff. But yeah, I'd like to hear your take on Third Space
[00:34:44] Siren Hand: Sal. This is, this is not my dissertation. Uh,
[00:34:48] Michael Zarick: it will be, it's published.
This is a published, this is a reviewed work. It gets reviewed by like 50 people a week or something.
Excellent. Peer review.
Let's go.
[00:34:57] Siren Hand: Um, so for me, third spaces are places together
that
don't
specific requirement that meet the goals of a group, right? Mm-hmm. So I know that that's really vague. No,
[00:35:13] Michael Zarick: that's like a, that's really good.
That's really good.
[00:35:15] Siren Hand: Yeah. Yes, it did. I do. Okay. Yes. Excellent.
[00:35:18] Michael Zarick: No, not to grade you on any scale, but
No, I, if there was a scale you would've killed,
[00:35:21] Siren Hand: I thought we said peer reviewed.
[00:35:23] Michael Zarick: um,
[00:35:24] Siren Hand: no, really, I mean,
[00:35:25] Michael Zarick: fearless, it's, I,
[00:35:27] Siren Hand: the
big thing is that like, while, I mean for us as a third space, like we're a bookshop, but we have meeting space in the back, and it's not specific to, um, any groups that.
Like it's really meant to be community space. It's really meant to be that, that hub of where people can talk and collaborate and network, but also where they can find and distribute resources between them. And so for us, that looks like harm reduction, uh, that looks like, uh, Narcan and fentanyl strips, you know, or it looks like, um, trade shows where people have things that they no lo no longer want, but might find other people who are interested in those niche topics.
And then be able to use that as a springboard to collaborate other events, other interactions, and really build those stronger networks. Mm-hmm. So that to me is what a third space is in my heathen non-academic.
[00:36:27] Michael Zarick: Well, you don't need, I don't think it's an academic topic. It's just annoying that it, is it, sure.
Well, well let's make it academic by
[00:36:33] Adam Henze: complicating this. Right. Let's complicate it. Boo.
So
mean. So I, I do think that literacy and writing complicates the notion of a third space. And one thing that I think about is I truly believe that when Siren and I go into the women's prison and we, uh, basically get to turn a classroom into a discussion space about poetry and our dreams and you know, like the beautiful things in life and our struggles, like we do think that is creating a third space, right.
That like, um, maybe
transform, maybe just for like a, a, a moment maybe just for the breadth of the conversation. Have I, so I intentionally
[00:37:19] Michael Zarick: Sorry to interrupt.
[00:37:20] Adam Henze: Yeah.
[00:37:21] Michael Zarick: The reason my podcast is named Third Space Indy instead of Third Place Indy, ah, is because to me a place is singular in location versus a space which is amorphous.
Mm-hmm. Similar to the women's prison that you, Yeah.
[00:37:37] Adam Henze: And some people might argue it is like, well, you're doing something educational. That might be a second space. But like, well, you know, we're not, you know, there's something that is, um, there's something that is like self-motivated about like, um, going to a bookstore or becoming collector, right?
It's not, you're doing it for a degree. It's not that you are trying to like, um, reach a certain status or, you know, it is, uh, much more self-motivated. And that is what I think kind of upholds the third space part of it. And people come in this space because they wanna learn more people come here because they want to just like find community.
And, um, some people come just visit Siren and just like, um, ask how they're doing, right? Like, some people come because they have a run of, um, this comic book that they want to finish and they want to hear the rest of the story. Some people come because they are really into typewriter collecting and they don't have anybody else to talk to about it.
You know, there's, there's. So many needs that, um, that I don't even think people realize that they
have until they let like literature and literacy kind of unlock those things for them.
[00:38:45] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Or you could say that about anything, not just literacy, like have a third space that unlocks the for them.
[00:38:53] Adam Henze: Oh, that's true. Yeah.
[00:38:54] Siren Hand: It's about that access. Right? It's about, it's, um, I mean, third spaces really need to be strategic in how they reach out and how they invite people in. Um, because it's not a transactional relationship. Mm-hmm. It really is a how can we support each other in, in ways to build this towards the future, but finding those places and consistent.
Like, can be a really difficult task. So we're just happy to be one of those spaces mm-hmm. That people can come to. Or even if we're not in the shop, they can come out and see us at a popup at the Rare Book Fest or, um, fourth Street or Grand Bloom down in Bloomington. Yeah. We even did a Irvington Halloween one year.
That was pretty fun. That was fun.
[00:39:39] Michael Zarick: Amazing. You don't need to hand it to Adam. Every time
[00:39:43] Siren Hand: I
[00:39:44] Michael Zarick: get, I get worried it's gonna hop away at this funny tale. It does look like a, did you ever have one of those old, like rabbit's foot on like a T chain? Why do people do that? That was so weird. Um, idea. Uh, as an extension of that question, this is another running question.
Shout out to, uh, oh no, what is his name? Oh, Ed Awa. He asked this question, uh, on the podcast and I just have sort of absorbed it, which is, um, what is a third space that no longer exists that you miss for yourself?
[00:40:19] Siren Hand: You have the, hold on. You've been
in Indianapolis far longer than I have.
It
[00:40:23] Adam Henze: doesn't have
to be in Indiana.
[00:40:24] Siren Hand: Sure.
[00:40:25] Adam Henze: I I am gonna say, I had to explain, uh, to some of my students the other day how like drugstore, like what drugstore are, and they were like, yeah,
a CVS and I was like,
no. it's Like a drugstore, Like, like a lady owned it.
Like
some, like some family owned. Like, like a guy with an apron owned it.
Or something, you know. And there was
the,
and there were like comic books there. They'd be like comic books. And I'd be like, yeah. And like crossword puzzles and like, you'd go and birthday greeting cards and like the drug store. And they're like, what
you talking about? You know,
like, um, I think that kind
notion of like,
what
age are these students?
They're, you know, teenagers. Like, they're like 16, 16, 17, but you know. Uh, we don't have the like, news stand kind of store. I mean, we, we would call it a drug store, but like, you know, where you go to the news stand where you go get your Reader's Digest. Um, ours was like connected to an arcade and like, you know, arcades don't really exist anymore either.
But like, um, yeah, just kind of, um, places where you could kind of just like, there's so much like kind of going back to branding. You used to be able to read the world easier without it being like corporate sponsored, right? Like you would have newspapers that you'd have to like look at and there'd be magazines on the wall and like now everything is in this digital sphere, sphere, and you get notifications interrupting your time to try to take you into that sphere.
But there used to be, uh, uh,
we would have to go to that just had stuff to read all over the wall. And I, I miss that a lot.
[00:42:06] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:09] Siren Hand: So Adam kind of, I was, I was going to go off a, uh, just be, be cool and be like, oh, but arcades, you know, and Adam already took that one.
[00:42:18] Michael Zarick: You can talk about it. Well,
[00:42:19] Adam Henze: I mentioned arcades like for a second.
You totally take arcades.
[00:42:22] Siren Hand: But actually, I mean, the thing is arcades, we're a designated space for youth culture to meet up, right? Mm-hmm. And a couple of different cultures too. Not just youth culture, but for me, I mean that, that to me calls back the nostalgia, the eighties, the nineties, you know, um, maybe even the early two thousands.
But, um, if we wanna talk more current third spaces, like what, what is exciting to me is that third spaces, when they become established, um, often are a lot more, you talked about it being more fluid and. Uh, not attached to a specific geography. And during the pandemic, one of the ways that I built community, um, was with one of my buddies, Reverend Patrick Burke.
Uh, we did Hallowed Ground. And so what it was was it was an interfaith discussion group we met at Holiday Park. Um, it was a group of sometimes like only a couple of people, but then ranging upwards to a dozen and then some, um, and on those Sundays in this interfaith place, because he's Episcopal, but I'm Pegan. And then we had Buddhist and Norse friends and all around. Mm-hmm. But we understood that there was a joint need for just spiritual thought, not. A particular religion or a particular spirituality. Mm-hmm. But it was so important to be able to access the resources through language. So we'd meet up and there's a stone circle in the middle, in the middle of the clearing right next to the ruins, and we got to, um, open up with the discussion and a check-in.
And then, uh, it was just magic to be in that space with community and then to know that every Sunday we had it or could move it wherever we needed to. And so that's a space that I miss, um, since the, the, since then the members have all kind of gone off into our different geographies, but still check in every once in a while.
[00:44:23] Adam Henze: The pandemic ethereal space. The
pandemic.
ethereal pandemic. Al space.
[00:44:26] Michael Zarick: Liminal space.
Al space. Mm-hmm. I want the record to be shown that I try to give Siren the mic several times.
[00:44:32] Adam Henze: and,
siren's, like, I don't want it.
I'm not,
[00:44:33] Michael Zarick: don't worry about it.
[00:44:35] Adam Henze: And
[00:44:35] Siren Hand: take only that, which
[00:44:35] Michael Zarick: is I think we're, we're sharing space. Uh, well, um, Thank you for sharing. Uh, I really appreciate it. Of course, of course. Um, is there anything else you guys, oh my gosh.
I just, it just hit me again. I should have written this in the notes. When I first walked in, Adam, you shared this idea with me. You said in this store we are selling NFTs. I said, what have I walked into?
[00:45:04] Adam Henze: That's
sort of what I said. I,
I,
I, uh, I said that we are taking something back that's been taken away from us.
Oh, this, this is my manifesto is,
oh, no, you, you,
[00:45:20] Michael Zarick: that's a charged word. right now Yeah.
so all
[00:45:22] Siren Hand: we are a lit space for rad people. We're a lit space for
rad people.
So,
[00:45:27] Adam Henze: so, so much of the conversation about collecting comes back to what we value. Right. And I think that, uh, so this is, this is gonna take me a second to get there, but hopefully you're, hopefully
you'll follow.
This
[00:45:42] Michael Zarick: is not, I just wanna, before we get there, we're not selling
[00:45:45] Adam Henze: NFTs.
We're
[00:45:46] Michael Zarick: nft, not the NFTs you're thinking of.
[00:45:47] Adam Henze: You
And
you'll kind of get what I was going with.
with.
Um, I mean, we basically know where every single copy of Superman number one is on the planet. Mm. Have you ever thought about that? Mm. There's thousands of copies.
We pretty much know where every single one is because it's been cataloged. It has been, um, it has been, you know, assigned a, a,
a,
you know, a, a number if it's been graded, all these kind of things. We're able to track it because other people have decided that that is a valuable thing worth preserving and we're going to put our money into it.
Right. But do we know how many copies of Gwendolyn Brooks' first Book is out there? Do we know how many copies of Audrey Lord's first chat book is out there? No, because we have not decided that we are going to put our effort and our stewardship into. The value of these books and of these things. And we now have a society that wants you to spend money on frivolous things that don't actually have any value, like NFTs, like cryptocurrency. are all things that in, in, in all values, abstract of course. But these are things that are literally worthless. They, they literally have no worth. At least with a book, you can be like, I learned something. I learned how to say some words, or I learned some quotations, or something like that.
[00:47:12] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:12] Adam Henze: But we have so many things, and even things that are worth money, like I would say that video games are worth money. Now we're buying the licenses to play the video game and not even the physical copy of
[00:47:24] Michael Zarick: the video game. Yeah. A lot of people don't know that.
[00:47:26] Adam Henze: Yeah.
And so this notion of ownership to be is becoming more and more and more abstract. We are basically paying for the, for the, the time to play something to just play. Someone else has that ownership of us. So flip side is this, in our store is what I call our scriptocurrency
[00:47:52] Michael Zarick: That's right.
[00:47:54] Adam Henze: is
[00:47:54] Michael Zarick: where this went. Correct, right.
[00:47:56] Adam Henze: That
the
value of the dollar, at least in the United States in 2025, is very, very volatile. It does not buy you as much as we all agree that it should. So we are, and we are basically spending, um, our money on things that we think, um, we have this idea of ification. Do you know what this is? I know what ification is. So
ification
this idea that we're buying more inferior, inferior products and that are the organizations that create them are purposely making them inferior.
So they're gonna break. So why don't we put our money into these old things? Why don't we. If we are looking for a better, more consistent barter system, if we have a society that is trying to take away literature that is trying to take away access to it, then why don't we basically decide that this is something that is worth, um, you know, um, preserving, holding onto and using as an alternative to physical currency.
Because, you know, the dollar ain't all that, that's the start of my manifesto, but I'm giving you a pause. This is the first manifesto that's got a, a, a, a pause
in it.
[00:49:14] Michael Zarick: I'm so glad that we could put this in. Concrete for you. I just remember thinking it was both hilarious. I mean, I, I personally agree Like, about on many things in there.
I think that's a cook. You're, you, you're over your cooking. Thank you. I appreciate, yeah. Do
[00:49:33] Adam Henze: you have anything to add to my manifesto idea? No,
no.
[00:49:37] Michael Zarick: you rolled your eyes when I brought it up. That's the funniest thing. I didn't roll the eyes. What it was was, I'm excited
[00:49:44] Siren Hand: about how, like, because I've, I've heard this tailored just a little bit each time and Oh, I'm sorry.
Just to make sure
I've heard this tailored just a little bit each time, but each time it comes out tailored, just that much more fittingly. really the, nostalgia is cool part of being here at Indy type shop, but it really is about the quality and keeping that alive, right? Mm-hmm. The quality, like, yes, we've got mass pulp fictions and, and those sorts. the quality of story for that point in time was just a lot of fun. And we really encourage that quality, not just with the books and the stories, but also with typewriters. When we do our repairs, we wanna make sure that it's used and used well.
[00:50:34] Adam Henze: Well, I'll even make fun of myself as a consumer. I just, I just purchased metal or solid three for like the fifth time.
Like
I was gonna ask, have
[00:50:41] Michael Zarick: you played, have you played Silk songs?
[00:50:43] Adam Henze: yeah. Yeah. Working on
[00:50:44] Michael Zarick: yeah. On it. Yeah, exactly.
[00:50:45] Adam Henze: But okay. But so, okay, the gamers listening though, that brings it back to the, it changes this concept of, value, right? Like Silk Song is made by like a handful
of, it's made
[00:50:57] Michael Zarick: by three people with a bunch of subcontractors.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's main,
[00:51:01] Adam Henze: main studio is three people. They didn't get on any advanced copies. It's a $20 game,
and you can, like, there's no doubt that that's, that game is worth $20. Everyone who plays that
game,
[00:51:11] Michael Zarick: oh, we're talking about the game's probably worth $200. I know.
[00:51:14] Adam Henze: Yeah. And then at the same time, you have. Uh, another, you know.
EA is asking 80 bucks for like, its 80th, iteration of NCAA whatever, um mm-hmm. Like
[00:51:26] Michael Zarick: a football or
[00:51:27] Adam Henze: football or, or, or whatever, the new Call
[00:51:28] Michael Zarick: of duty and all of that.
[00:51:30] Adam Henze: Yeah.
So it's just like, I mean, going back to like, I just bought
Vigar
solid three for like the fifth time because I bought it on PlayStation two, Uhhuh.
I bought the like special edition on PlayStation two, then had to go back and buy a PlayStation four.
You're a victim of
[00:51:44] Michael Zarick: your own ideology. That's, yeah, but I meanly
[00:51:47] Adam Henze: on
you know,
game for this,
But
but the way the world is right now, like we are, there's not a lot of new IP coming out, right? Mm-hmm. Like, um, we're kind of in this,
cultural cycle of, you know, I don't know if it's cultural atrophy, but we're, you know, there's, we're, you know, we're getting new Superman movies.
Like, it is fine. It's, it's a good movie, but it's just like. It's, we're just doing this again and again. We're gonna be more
[00:52:14] Michael Zarick: Batman again and more. We recently had a Freakier Friday Yes. And we're having Devil Horse product two. Yes. And now, are those inherently bad? No. No. Okay. Yeah, I don't think so. It's
[00:52:31] Siren Hand: so, I, I don't think that they're bad.
Yeah. Um, because they're all different creative expressions. Right. And the thing is that like, I, I know plenty of our community members come on in and they just want to settle deeper into a story that they're already familiar with. Mm-hmm. That, that familiarity is part of the reason that you wanna look at the old books and you wanna see what the publications are that are out there.
Having spinoffs and reiterations or redos isn't a bad thing itself. The question is, where is your effort
[00:53:04] Michael Zarick: with it? Mm-hmm.
[00:53:04] Siren Hand: I
[00:53:05] Michael Zarick: the purpose?
[00:53:05] Siren Hand: What's the purpose of
it? Like, I, um, uh, freaky Friday was hilarious and fun. First time I went through, got updated for that generation, right? Mm-hmm. Now updated again for a further generation.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,
it is a way to express this story and to make it continue. Its timeliness, right?
But
the other hand, what are we missing by not trying to generate an entirely new storyline? That's kind of where my question is with it.
[00:53:34] Adam Henze: Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
And kind of bringing it back to what people find in the store is, a lot of young people don't realize, like in the back of these old magazines, that like, there would be like these like classified ads that like you're trying to, find,
Hey, you're that pretty lady.
I saw, can you call me please? Or like,
Hey, uh, I'm, I'm creating my own. Detective
book club. Could you hit me up? And it's just like, um, people are, young people when they see these, like old ads are like, why did, why did you do that? Because, well, we didn't have telephone, we didn't have internet. You know, like, this is like, these are like different types of processes
that
would take when they didn't have third spaces.
Mm-hmm. You know, one thing we like to talk about is when we look at like, old advertisements, um, like from a hundred years ago. Mm-hmm. You know, some of the most beautiful advertisements, some of the most beautiful art is on like seed packets and
like
like farm equipment and like, all kind of stuff. Because flower sacks.
Flower sacks. Because if you lived in Attica, Indiana a hundred years ago, you didn't have a museum to go to or a, a library or a bookstore to like, or a museum to see art. You basic. But you got the newspaper and and
got this advertisement for, for flour. You know, so there used to be a lot more thoughtfulness, uh, and communication in some of our mundane, um, you know, types of, um, advertising and, and those kind of things.
And I think that we can those things again, not to get very corporate with it. Um, we can even bring in like the kind of like Cracker Barrel logo scandal. We're not bringing in I'm
the I'm
doing it. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, we're not doing it. I'm upt to my deep cake on it. Our logo is fresh. We're not, we're not
[00:55:29] Michael Zarick: doing this.
[00:55:30] Adam Henze: But I think that there
there
this kind of like, um,
and,
and I, I'm not aligning myself with the, the, the, the Cracker Barrel, um, um, fiasco, Pitchfork, um, and, and, and uh, uh, people. But I think there's been kind of a, um, deliteralization of, uh, our, uh, behavior as consumers. And I think that.
that.
You know, I'm not gonna advocate for capitalism or, or, or, or this or that.
But I think that we can kind of bring back, um, this like thoughtfulness to the way that we shop and the way that we talk with people and the way that we trade things. And un you know, obviously like, we like typewriter, they're fun, we like reading, it's fun. But that's kind of on the underground. What we really want to do with our store.
We want people to be able to, um, trade ideas and trade comic books.
[00:56:23] Michael Zarick: Banger, banger, round it out. Um, nothing else. All right. No, I just wanna say a clincher. Uh, by Hol night. So song that Game Rocks.
[00:56:34] Adam Henze: It's,
I have nothing to do with it. It's also
[00:56:35] Michael Zarick: really hard. And I, I,
[00:56:38] Adam Henze: I want you to know, I beat the Moorwing yesterday and I cheered.
Have you gotten to the Mor Wing
yet? I have.
[00:56:44] Michael Zarick: I have beaten the game. I have not beaten the game, quote unquote. Gotcha. Um, so do you remember the Moorwing is the Yes, I know. The Moorwing. It's like a big bat thing. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Throws blades at you.
[00:56:54] Adam Henze: I've heard he is like harder guy, but I'm sure there's like much harder to come.
There's
He
was working on it for
[00:56:58] Michael Zarick: a lot harder to come.
Um, yeah, the first, so there's acts in the game, like, like in a story. So the, the boss that ends, I still think I'm
an act one. You probably are. I'm like
[00:57:07] Adam Henze: 12 or 14 hours in too. Mm-hmm.
[00:57:09] Michael Zarick: The Act one ending boss. Not only is the boss hard, but to get to the boss after you die over and over again.
Yeah. Is also hard. So you will be playing more than the
[00:57:21] Adam Henze: Hollow Knight though?
[00:57:22] Michael Zarick: I, I don't think so.
[00:57:23] Adam Henze: Yeah. I think
people, I'm
[00:57:23] Michael Zarick: happy to have the ability to just talk about video games with somebody on this podcast for once. Yeah. It's always fun being hollow
[00:57:29] Adam Henze: night
for like 500 hours and forgot that was a really hard game to them at
[00:57:33] Michael Zarick: one
time.
I think so anyways, let's round it out.
[00:57:37] Adam Henze: Boom.
[00:57:38] Michael Zarick: What? Sorry, there's a question from the previous guest. You're
[00:57:42] Adam Henze: getting the first answer This Oh yeah, yeah. Cool
[00:57:44] Michael Zarick: Question from the previous guest. Got it. Excellent. Okay. There's always a question from the previous guest that's a hint. Uh, what is your favorite green space?
[00:57:54] Adam Henze: Ooh.
[00:57:57] Siren Hand: Hmm.
So, there are a couple that I like to go to. Mm-hmm. Um, my favorite green space is.
is.
Here locally, we've got the Garfield Park Conservatory. They've even got a bonai show that's supposed to be going on today, I think. Mm-hmm. Um,
[00:58:17] Michael Zarick: bonsai, they replaced the cacti. Mm-hmm. They were, uh, moved out the cacti and now they're on the Bonai,
[00:58:23] Siren Hand: I think.
Yeah. I think that they've, well, but they do it like they did a orchid festival. It's like a festival that they kind of like move in and out. Yeah. But it's a wonderful space. I love greenhouses. Mm-hmm. So like the Garfield Park Conservatory down in Bloomington, they have a conservatory that's brilliant in
[00:58:39] Michael Zarick: the green, in, in what used to be Jordan Hall
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I used to go in there regularly.
[00:58:43] Siren Hand: Gorgeous. And as a writer, those are spaces that I'm called to, to just relax and chill. But if we're talking about out in nature, the two spaces I like are, I like the Virginia Fairbanks art, uh, right outside of new fields. Mm-hmm. That's always an amazing place to walk and to go.
Um, bird watch and see natural, natural floor of fauna. Um, and then just because I'm a sucker for BRICS. Uh, BRICS has their spot right along the
[00:59:14] Michael Zarick: Monan, like Broad Ripple Ice Cream company. Mm-hmm. Okay. Broad Ripple. I'm a frequenter of bricks that it's 10 feet from my house almost. Not literally, but you know, effectively enough.
[00:59:25] Siren Hand: And that area along the monan actually, like there are bike path trails that kind of pull off into the woods. Like you'll go down and it's off course and everything. Mm-hmm. But I love going into there and just sitting by the White River, so that's super cool. If you're not down for the river, but you want kind of that background noise.
Idle Park up in Fountain Square. I,
[00:59:45] Michael Zarick: IDLE. Idle.
[00:59:46] Siren Hand: LE.
[00:59:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:47] Siren Hand: IDLE.
[00:59:49] Michael Zarick: Adam. I've not been there. I don't think
[00:59:51] Adam Henze: so. Siren accused me several times of taking their answer during this podcast. And
Several. And
then I was gonna say the
monan, even though
[00:59:58] Michael Zarick: the whole Monan The whole,
[00:59:59] Adam Henze: yeah,
the whole Monan. Claiming it. All of it. Even though the Monan used to be in my backyard, used to walk my dog on the Monan and know that story.
You let me answer first.
That's true.
So is, is
[01:00:09] Michael Zarick: the next third space Indy guest?
[01:00:11] Siren Hand: Ooh,
Yeah,
I answered first, last time.
[01:00:17] Adam Henze: Um, so I would say, what is your favorite? Well, I
ask, what is an Indiana story that you like telling people that
not a lot of people know? What is an Indiana story,
[01:00:29] Michael Zarick: like Indiana story or a personal story? Do you care? Okay. Okay.
Okay. Right on. Yeah,
[01:00:33] Adam Henze: that's, that's mine. You, you, you wanna do one too, or is that it?
Yes. So
[01:00:37] Michael Zarick: double feature.
Ah,
[01:00:39] Siren Hand: I am excited to find out what resources people use to help establish third space.
Hmm.
I don't know if there's like a, a best. Practices book that more people use than not, or or things like that. But that's really what I'm curious is what are the foundational resources? Is what?
Wine and cheese possibly. Wine and cheese. That's a resource. Both of them.
[01:01:06] Michael Zarick: I
need to buy it. But the original book, um, the Great Good Place by Ray Oldenberg Berg. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
When I, I have had it from the library for like months. I haven't read it. No. But I've read like the intro and when I was reading the intro, well 'cause I keep bouncing between books.
I'm a freak. I can't settle. I just need to read. I have my
six run. Or you're
[01:01:26] Adam Henze: reading 50 books at the same time. Yeah,
[01:01:28] Michael Zarick: over the course of like 10 years. Yeah, that's fine. Still counts. Um, but anyways, I was so impressed. Speaking of like resources for building third spaces, I have this very deep framework because this is all I think about all the time, about what it is, what a third space is, what it takes to build third spaces, that type of stuff.
And I'm sitting here reading the introduction to this book. Okay. That's pretty much all I've read so far. And I said, this guy gets it. Just the introduction. I was like, I can't wait to read the rest of it. At least
[01:01:56] Siren Hand: framing
[01:01:57] Michael Zarick: it right? So clearly Ray
[01:01:58] Adam Henze: Oldenberg,
[01:01:59] Michael Zarick: who coined the term third place, knows what's up.
That's what I
[01:02:02] Adam Henze: There's a lot of, um, if you remind me, there's been a lot of good writing about it in, uh, literacy education, just kind of conceptualizing like, because you know, the workplace and the school is kinda the second place and the home is the first place, but literacy, we know
place somewhere in between that second or first place.
So a lot of people, a lot of researcher, writer around the third space. So if you remind me of Cindy
[01:02:29] Michael Zarick: things, please
[01:02:30] Adam Henze: some, some, some good theory.
[01:02:31] Michael Zarick: Anyways, let's wrap
[01:02:32] Adam Henze: up.
[01:02:33] Michael Zarick: Siren, Adam. Thank you. Where can we find you? Tell me about if
[01:02:38] Siren Hand: at Indy type shop Now. The best way to find us Indy type shop, we are on social.
Media.
Uh, is we have a TikTok, a Facebook, I mean, kind of the metal platforms. It sounds,
[01:02:49] Michael Zarick: Indy
Indy
type shop.
Type shop, Indy
[01:02:51] Siren Hand: type do shop. Yes.
Um, and
you can also get more information, get in touch with us info@Indytypeshop.com. No dots for that one.
[01:03:02] Michael Zarick: Got it.
[01:03:03] Siren Hand: Um, and we have our, all of our stuff is listed on Google, so please look us up.
Stop on by. Uh, and then we're excited to see you at our upcoming events as well, Adam.
[01:03:14] Adam Henze: So I don't know when this will be aired, but we'd also have some next week. Oh, nice. Brilliant. We also have some, um, events that we are going to be at outside of the shop that we wanna invite people to.
So on the 27th, we are going to be at a readin
at Black Circle
Brewery.
Mm. Um, have you been at Black Circle? Nope. Are are you, are you, are you, is that the, is that the metal head place? Yeah. Are, yeah. Are you, I need to go there. You strike me as a metal head. Are you, do you like the heavy metal?
[01:03:39] Michael Zarick: I want to be a metalhead. It just does not. Um, the metal that I like. Do you know Alestorm?
We do know a storm like pirate metal that, that hits for me. And I also like those like Kingdom. kingdoms I a good one for you. like I, those, like strong riffs and stuff. I don't like when they get into the scream of stuff, but I strong. They have all kind of guitar. They
[01:03:58] Adam Henze: all kind of
stuff. I mean, we went to
Castle Rat.
It's a, it's a a do metal band and she performs in a chain mail bikini. So like, that's sick. They've got things there That but with like a giant rat mask.
[01:04:08] Michael Zarick: I have, I have friends. It's just awesome. We're getting off topic, but that's okay. No, but uh, I have friends who are really in the metal and there's one called gom gom.
Is that the, do you know what I'm talking about? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Stage. And they like all perform in like these pig demon costumes and they like is
or you meani
gir gir and they like spray blood everywhere. Yes. And they're like, this is awesome. Yeah. I'm, Yeah. you know, I'm not into that, but like I respect it.
It's awesome. It's a good camp.
[01:04:35] Adam Henze: So we will be at the Readin at Black Circle on September 27th. Uh, that is from noon to six. We will also be vending at KTI Fest. If there's any listeners out there in Milwaukee, that's gonna be a, um, that's gonna be at the beginning of October. We'll also be at Proof, the Midwest Literary Arts Festival.
You should check that out. If you've uh, been to Proof before, it's gonna be its second year. It is. Um, at the Harrison Center. At the Harrison Center in partnership with Indiana Humanities.
And then we will be at the Bloomington
Book Festival. The following, um,
week after that. I'm already losing touch on what date that is, but look up the Blooming Time
[01:05:14] Michael Zarick: is an enigma.
[01:05:15] Adam Henze: Yeah, we're we're, we're gonna be out there basically. Uh, there's
a
[01:05:18] Michael Zarick: calendar somewhere. You
[01:05:19] Adam Henze: guys post.
Yeah. Yeah.
[01:05:20] Michael Zarick: You're posters. Go
to our social media. You love posting a little selfie video too. All the time. Yeah. Try to. I said, Hey, I got surgery on my ear today. Yeah. Um, anyways, thank you so much for listening, watching Riding Along with Third Space Indy. You can find me at Third Space Indy. Uh, on Instagram or@thirdspaceIndy.com, where I write a weekly blog with every episode. Please gimme your email. I'll send it to you every Monday with the release of the episode. The Third Space Indy Intro Music is done by the local artist, Jenison. Thank you Jenison for sharing your music with me and everybody else.
Thanks Jenison. Shout out to Jenison. She'll be on eventually. Uh, anyways. Thank you Adam and Siren for joining me. Thank you.
Thank you so much
for having us. Hope to share the next episode, third Space Andy with You. Goodbye.