Ep. 8 - William Hazen - Third Generation Transit Operator
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When I was a child, up until 9th grade, I rode the bus to school. Some of my greatest memories, longest-lasting friends, and sense of independence come from these years of my life. In 7th and 8th grade, I listened to the same playlist every morning, with “Let’s Get it Started” by the Black Eyed Peas timed to end just as I got off the bus at middle school. Badass. I used to play this weird guitar hero-like game on my iPod Mini. The bus let you ease into a stressful school day, and was an immediate relief when you left. The bus was everything.
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Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
So why is it that we do these things for kids only to never be used later in life? Math that has to do with counting watermelons, the joys of reading, communal living and sharing, or riding public transit with a wide variety of people. I think in many ways, it’s time for us to take some lessons from the ones we try to teach children.
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Important links and mentions
Food
Production learnings from the episode
To be quite honest, I don’t recall there being too much wrong with this episode in terms of production. That said, I think there is clearly a difference between my audio and Will’s.
I have yet to figure this out, but I think it may become a consistent issue as I use two different audio input devices. It has solved one problem, being able to offer different audio levels for each person, but raised another… being able to have different audio levels for each person. This may also be echoed again in Episode 10, where there is a clear audio level issue. But we’ll manage.
Beyond the above, after I left Will’s house, I also decided to begin taking photos with the guests I have. The podcast is slowly making me more sentimental, so I think it would be nice to have minor mementos to hold on to, like a simple picture. I have a couple of folks I need to circle back to.
To Build a Better City
America is bankrupting its cities. Indianapolis specifically has a crumbling road infrastructure. There are a lot of reasons for this. There is an unwillingness from local leaders to implement solutions, and there is an unspoken hostility from the state government toward the city. It would take over $1 billion dollars to fix Indianapolis roads.
This is due to over 25 years of mismanagement. Letting a problem get worse and worse with no real action towards a solution. That’s where IndyGo comes in. A savior in many ways, and one small piece to solving the infrastructure issues facing the city.
Public transit serves so many amazing purposes, and the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) service IndyGo offers is no different.
Buses allow for lower traffic density. This increases the sustainability of roads, reducing the need for road maintenance and reducing daily traffic.
Buses offer an inexpensive and fast option for the poor and working class (and everyone!) to get around, forgoing the expensive gas, insurance, and monthly payments associated with cars.
Buses bundle travelers into a single vehicle. This can allow for potential community building, as Will shared. It also reduces the emissions associated with the cars removed from the road.
Buses generate more revenue per dollar spent on them than other forms of transportation, certainly more than individual car transportation.
The benefits add up and go beyond what I have listed. So we here in Indianapolis and America need to continue to invest and reinvest in public transit because it will save the city from a longer-term disaster.
So this is where we should look, and if you’re interested in helping that investment, you should toss some money towards the IndyGo Foundation. I think we can make it happen, and we can have a better transit future for the city.
Episode Summary
Building a Community Around Public Transit with Will Hazen
In this episode of 'Third Space Indy,' host Michael Zarick interviews Will Hazen, a third-generation transit operator who has dedicated his career to improving public transit in Indianapolis. Will shares his journey from working at a railroad museum in Michigan to becoming a coach operator for IndyGo, reflecting on how his family history has influenced his passion for public transit. They discuss the unique challenges and joys of being a bus operator, including how interactions with riders inspire him daily. The conversation also delves into the benefits of public transit for the community, the versatility of buses, and Will’s intriguing hobby of collecting and transforming old buses. This episode sheds light on the impact of public transportation on community building and offers a glimpse into the personal experiences of someone deeply involved in the transit world.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:10 Will Hazen's Background and Career
02:51 Experiences and Stories from the Bus
06:00 The Importance of Public Transit
24:55 Will Hazen's Personal Life and Interests
36:52 Favorite Coffee Shops and Appetizers
37:37 Cycling in Indianapolis
38:07 Bike Accidents and Helmet Debate
40:03 Gravel Bikes and Biking Infrastructure
46:06 Owning and Driving Buses
54:26 Creative Uses for Old Buses
58:57 Inspiration from Bus Riders
01:06:31 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Episode Transcript
Season 2 Ep. 2 Will Hazen
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[00:00:00] Michael Zarick: Hey Michael here. A very minor note before the audio begins. Will asked me to let you know that all opinions he shared in this podcast are his own.
What has inspired you recently?
[00:00:12] Will Hazen: so I would say my riders inspire me every day. A lot like the work that I do. Is inspired and driven by them. so a lot of times they'll tell me something that I wasn't consciously thinking about, you know, it'd make my life easier if, if IndyGo did this, or if they move this stop here. And a lot of times I'm like, yeah, why not?
And so a lot of times we'll have those conversations and we can make somebody's life a little easier. So I would just say my riders inspire me every day.
[00:00:58] Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick, and this is Third Space Indy, a podcast where we talk to community builders, leaders and organizers about building out the communities they live in and just sort of all of that type of thing.
Today I'm joined by Will Hazen. Will Hazen is a third generation transit operator. Also, I like to say that, um, public transit is my whole personality, but I've yet to meet someone who quite literally has not only made it their personality, but has. Uh, made it their entire life. Yeah. In more ways than one.
Yeah. Uh, so, uh, hello Will. How you doing?
Good.
Yeah,
[00:01:38] Will Hazen: doing well.
[00:01:39] Michael Zarick: I realize now that this is a little awkward 'cause the microphone's over there, but I'm over here. Um, but I think it should work out,
Yeah. Um, so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, uh, you know, maybe a little bit about IndyGo, who you work for, um, about your life, what's going on?
[00:01:55] Will Hazen: Yeah, so, uh, my name is William Hazen. Um, originally from Southern Indiana. And, uh, after a stint at college in Michigan, uh, moved back to Indianapolis and, um, was searching for a job and found that at IndyGo, uh, sort of on a whim. And, uh, figured I'd be there for, you know, maybe a year or two. Just something to try out, um, something I hadn't done in transportation before. Um, and it has ended up becoming a career so.
[00:02:28] Michael Zarick: Yeah. And do you, uh, enjoy
being a bus operator?
Yeah, I mean it, a coach operator, I guess is what I was
supposed to say.
[00:02:35] Will Hazen: Like, it certainly,
it certainly has its days. Um, like there's days where you definitely have those challenges, but I think the fun part is, uh, you know,
figuring out how to work through those challenges and,
you know, you become a better operator at the end of the day, uh, for those, those moments.
[00:02:51] Michael Zarick: So, yeah, definitely Um, do you, Oh, so I actually really wanna talk about this because it's, it's, I think core, at least your online identity, it's in every piece of media about you I see, Um, which frankly, there is a lot of now.
Yeah. Um, but you are a third generation transit operator, bus operator, coach, operator, whatever you wanna say. So what is the sort of family lineage. Of, of operating vehicles
[00:03:18] Will Hazen: Yeah. So the, the family history with transportation, uh, goes back to my great-grandfather, uh, Basil and he was a section man on the Atchison Topeka in Santa Fe out of Ottawa, Kansas. Um, my grandfather, who was also William, um, but he was William Junior.
He was a, uh, bus operator for the Triangle Transit Company, um, which operated, uh, bus service in three small cities in eastern Kansas. Uh, so he drove. And manage transit systems in two of those three in El Dorado and Ottawa. Um, and then my dad, when he was in college, uh, he drove for Fort Worth Transit, uh, out of Fort Worth, Texas. Um, and of course, despite my best efforts to, uh, to enter aviation, uh, found IndyGo, uh, instead and, and fell in love with it and have been, been there for five years So. That's so funny. I didn't,
uh,
[00:04:19] Michael Zarick: for some reason, five years sounds so short. 'cause you, I feel like you carry
yourself like it's been Yeah. Uh, since you were like a child. Yeah.
Um, yeah. The, do you feel, uh, like a certain, like does that through line from your, uh, I guess ancestry, the make you feel
more connected to your job at
all?
[00:04:42] Will Hazen: I think in some ways it, I. Uh, the history sort of forces me to think cognizantly about where we've been and the history of, of public transit.
Uh, you know, not only here in Indianapolis, but across the country and how we got to this point today, um, where, you know, the government subsidized cars and then had to step in and save, you know, these for-profit transit companies by buying them out and making them municipal corporations. So I think,
you know, I think to an effect, the, the history, um, of my family working in it and knowing their experiences sort of informs my my experience a little bit. So,
[00:05:26] Michael Zarick: yeah. Great answer. I like that. So, uh,
like I said
before, I have basically made public transit, my whole personality. Whenever my
wife and I drive around, yeah. I grumble whether I'm driving or she's driving no
matter what,
I am grumbling. And she goes,
She
goes, Michael, what's wrong? And I say, car based society.
Yeah. Um, and as a result, uh, this is, uh, it's, it's sort of a running joke, but I haven't really made the joke so often, but the, the. The purpose of this podcast understated, is that I wanna do propaganda for, for
public transit. Yeah.
[00:06:06] Will Hazen: That's always a good purpose to have. Yeah,
[00:06:08] Michael Zarick: because, uh, I actually was like, oh, I'll do a little research on Will.
And I saw, uh, on some article, I don't recall where it was, but you
said that you believe the bus is the premier slash best slash ultimate
third space.
[00:06:27] Will Hazen: I've said that a lot. So it's, there's, there's no one place I can attribute it to, but you know, I've been like sitting on the bus before and you know, whether I'm driving it or riding it, um.
Uh, you start to see those conversations between t people take place and a lot of times it's people that went to the same high school together like 50 years ago, just randomly and they haven't seen each other, um, you know, since they graduated. But they'll recognize each other on the bus and they'll start talking to each other and, you know, by the end of it, they're planning when they can get together again.
and you know, I think,
I think that's the really special thing about it is, you know, because of our, the the, web of bus routes across the city, we have a unique ability to bring people together that nothing else can do So
[00:07:21] Michael Zarick: I think it's sort of a, I do
agree that I think it's a really good third space. Yeah. I, I, it's not what I would consider in my head or anyone's head, like a traditional third space. Like I think people think like coffee shop or library, that type of thing. Um, but it is a great transitionary space where you're moving from place to place. And just thinking about like the interactions. That are memorable for me on the bus.
Yeah. Are they're all very positive, um, here or, you know, uh, story time. Uh, when I was, when I was 16, I visited my brother in San Francisco. He was working out there. Okay. Um, and I walked across the Golden
Gate Bridge. Uh,
[00:08:06] Will Hazen: that's, that's, a trek.
[00:08:07] Michael Zarick: It's long. Yeah. I walked, uh, when I told his coworkers at the time how far I walked that day, they said, that is not correct.
Like, you should not have done that. Yeah. I was probably in danger at some points, that type of thing. Um, but I walked across the Golden Gate Bridge to the other side. Yeah. Where you're no longer in San Francisco. My phone died. Oh. And I was 16 years old.
If you don't know this, there is nothing on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge.
Yeah. So I walked down. I didn't wanna walk
back. I was really tired. It was the end of the day. Oh yeah. And I sit at a bus stop,
a bus pulls up, the woman stops, um, opens the door and says, you know, this isn't a stop, right? And I was like, no, I didn't know that. She goes, get on. Yeah. Doesn't have me pay. Uh, obviously at the time I felt like an adult being 16 years old.
Yeah.
Um, but she clearly saw me as what I was, which is a child. Yeah. And she got me on, took me back into town, uh, and I just got off somewhere and got to like a Starbucks and charged my phone. Yeah. But that's like a core memory of mine is like that, that random bus driver straight up like saving me Yeah. From the the middle. Yeah. There's,
[00:09:20] Will Hazen: I've definitely had a few moments like that where you just see something that looks
outta place and you're like
You know, you'll pull up and you'll be like, do you need help? Yeah. Like I, there was one day I was
driving the tent on West 10th Street and I was over, um, I think it was close to Belmont Avenue on the west side. and I just Like it's dark outside. It's winter and there's this like kid walking down the street and I'm like, in my head I'm like,
that doesn't look correct to me. how,
[00:09:54] Michael Zarick: how old was the kid or
around?
[00:09:56] Will Hazen: Probably
four or five.
[00:09:58] Michael Zarick: Oh, that is, that is a like capital K kid.
[00:10:01] Will Hazen: Yeah. And I was like, that doesn't look right to me.
So it's one of those things. And then come to figure out, um, he had climbed on, um, while his parents were making dinner,
he had climbed on like a stool
And hopped out the window and decided to go for a walk on West 10th. So we were able to get him back to his parents and everything, but so, oh, there's a lot of times where you have those moments where you're like.
That doesn't seem right. Let me stop and see if I can figure out what the 'cause I think more than most drivers, bus drivers are probably paying a lot more attention to their
surroundings than, than just about anybody else on the, road. Safe pedestrians and cyclists. But I definitely
[00:10:42] Michael Zarick: I've had a really good experience, uh, shout out to IndyGo for, with the buses, with the buses here.
I really have.
Yeah. Um, I have overall had like a great experience with the all the bus drivers, um, and it's been super comfortable and I've really enjoyed it.
What bus line are you on?
[00:10:57] Will Hazen: Um, so for one more week.
Um, I'm, yeah. So every three times a year we'll, uh, swap. So, um, we do typically, um, June, October, and February are the three times a year that we sort of rotate around.
[00:11:13] Michael Zarick: Is it
to give you a little
spice in your life
or,
[00:11:17] Will Hazen: uh, mainly it's to allow the agency to readjust schedules, to improve on time performance, um, better, better align, um, different, different route schedules, um, to sort of reduce splits on drivers and stuff like that.
So it's mostly a scheduling thing. Um, it gives us the flexibility three times a year to sort of realign routes to meet demand and that sort of thing. Because obviously, you know, in the summer you're not picking up. Uh, a hundred school kids in front of Crispus Attics. So, uh,
[00:11:52] Michael Zarick: not something I had considered.
[00:11:53] Will Hazen: Yeah, you, you sort of have to go through and adjust the, the schedules as such, um, you know, a couple times a year. And so right now I'm on the four and the 34 primarily, but I also do a little bit on the far east side with the 21 and the 87 on Mondays. And
then, uh, 1356 on the southeast side on Sundays.
Cool. So I sort of get around, uh, the city right now, but next pick I'll be primarily on the three. So Michigan Street, east And, West
side. Got it. So, yeah.
[00:12:25] Michael Zarick: And, um, I've only ridden the Red
Line so far. I live in Broad Ripple. Okay.
So I just go, I just go north, south. I'm boring. Yeah. Um, what about, uh,
is there anything sort of, I've thought about what it would be like to be a bus driver before.
Yeah. Does it get tedious? Does it get, um, like what's the, or does it, do you just enjoy saying hello to people? Is that, what's the driving force?
You've been doing it for five years?
[00:12:49] Will Hazen: Yeah, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's tedious, like the, the best part of my job is
that it's different every single day. Mm.
Like, Like, there
are days where I'll see a lot of the same people, um, but
every day for me is different. I'm seeing different people. I'm seeing them at different places, they're going to different things. And like I said, I do have those regulars. Um, but you know, whether it's construction or the weather outside, uh,
you have a different experience every day on, on the same route.
So, yeah, it's, that's the thing I love about it is,
you know, sort of the dynamism of it.
[00:13:29] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I've had a different experience, at least socially, uh, on the bus. Every time I've gotten on, like one day there was, uh, a protest downtown and it was fuller than I've ever seen it. Yeah. But the energy was like amazing on the bus.
Yeah. I was super happy that day. Um, one day. Um, there's just like this older gentleman behind me who was like a security guard and we just chatted for a bit. Um, yeah. But yeah, it's definitely, I really enjoy the sort of similar probably to what you experienced, just sort of this, the constant rotation of people that getting on and off the bus and the the, personalities I'm sure you encountered. Yes. Yeah.
[00:14:03] Will Hazen: Yeah.
There's certainly, like, there's people that, you know by their first name. Um, and like there's this guy named Walter, um, who you might have met on the Red Line,
um, older guy and he'll get on there and he's like, you know, he always jokes with me 'cause he knows I own buses.
And he's like, I got a bus to sell you. And he, he's trying to sell me a red line bus while we're on the red line. And so you get characters like that every day that sort of. Know a little bit about you, you know a little bit about them and, um, you know, they'll they'll joke with you on the way down to down to the transit center. So,
[00:14:41] Michael Zarick: all right. I'm gonna ask you,
to do some preaching for me. Okay. Sell me on public transit. What's going on?
Like, why should Indianapolis keep going in on it? And I'll maybe chime in a little bit because I got my own opinions.
[00:14:55] Will Hazen: Sure. Like, so public transit is a great way
as a city for us to reduce congestion on city streets.
Uh, it's a great way to meet your neighbors. Uh, it's a great way to save money. Um, it's it's an all around great way to get around and for every dollar you invest in public transportation, you get a return bigger than that. So the city does better off the more we invest in public transit, whereas with cars, it's the opposite.
Um, so. The investments that you've seen in transit oriented development along the red line since it opened in 2019. Um, those kind of investments come back to the city and property tax revenue and that sort of thing. So it's a great investment for the city. Um, and it's a great investment for the, the everyday person who,
uh, wants a more efficient way to get around who wants to save
money, um, who wants to meet some of their neighbors.
[00:15:57] Michael Zarick: great answer. Yeah, I uh, I agree wholeheartedly.
My big thing is like we at the common complaint in Indianapolis right now, I've probably mentioned it on every episode of this so far. Yeah. Is pot potholes.
[00:16:09] Will Hazen: Yeah.
It'll, It solves that problem too. It helps solve it.
Yeah. Like, um, you look at 38th Street before the Purple Line opened.
One of the worst streets, um, in the city, especially if you would've driven down like 38th street between Sherman and Emerson before the Purple Line. Um, you know, there's, there is a good chance you would've, you know, misaligned your spine going down that street. The bumps were so bad, um, and now you go down there and it is one of the smoothest roads in the city.
It's such a nice ride down there. Um. And there weren't even sidewalks on that street. Now there's sidewalks on both sides. Well, there actually, there's a shared use path on the north side of the street and a sidewalk on the south side. So even for people who will never ride the bus, public transit is a fantastic investment. Um, because we a lot of times are making those infrastructure improvements to your street so that you can walk the dog, uh, without wading through mud on the side of the road and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And even if you're a driver, drivers will tell you, um, 38th Street does not flood anymore because IndyGo upgraded the drainage on that street.
Um, and you know, the street, the streets are smooth. So you're not replacing your rims every other day,
uh, from trying to drive down. 38th.
[00:17:38] Michael Zarick: Yeah.
I, I, I do. This
is something that's really under, under stated, at least if you're not paying attention actively, like public transit benefits, car drivers in every way. Like,
[00:17:51] Will Hazen: yeah. Less, less traffic, smoother roads, you know, all of that stuff makes, it, makes it better to drive.
[00:17:57] Michael Zarick: So if you're car pilled yeah. You should also be transit pilled. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that easy. absolutely
[00:18:04] Will Hazen: like don't need to site any sources Let's just, the, the better transit, the better transit is, the better your drive's gonna be.
'cause you've got less people to fight for road space with. Mm-hmm. You know, so, and. Uh, it's, it's not even just the BRT projects, uh, IndyGo, when we improve local route bus stops, um, like we're doing now across the city, everywhere from the Meadows to, um, the near East side here, south side is seeing, uh, tons of improvements. Um, and then projects like the Michigan and New York two-way conversion, uh, which IndyGo paid for in part, um, where there's new bike lanes, uh, new bus stops, smoother roads. Um, those are things that probably would not have happened as quickly if it was left up to the city alone. So the ability of IndyGo to go out there, um, and fund these projects and get grants, uh, to, to improve street infrastructure is, is huge.
Mm-hmm. So,
[00:19:04] Michael Zarick: All right. And I'm not
trying to get you in trouble, but I'm unemployed.
Okay.
So why might
someone like myself work for IndyGo?
[00:19:12] Will Hazen: Um,
[00:19:13] Michael Zarick: if you don't have good answers, we can skip.
No, it's, it's
[00:19:16] Will Hazen: a, it's a great job. Uh, the benefits are fantastic and they help you pay for this house Yeah. That we're in right now.
Yeah. And you have the ability
to
make change in the city that you can see every day. Um, I, I think a lot of people are stuck in jobs where they feel like, you know, what am I doing? They can't find their sense of purpose. Mm-hmm. Um, but when you go out there and, you know, you've been working on say, a bus stop project, even if you're not driving the bus, if you go out there and, and you see a wheelchair using, uh, a bus stop that wasn't ADA accessible before and now is you're, you know, you've gotta
think to yourself, that rider is now able to go to this destination because we upgraded that bus stop.
You get to see the changes that you make in somebody's everyday life, every day. And I think that's hugely impactful, um, to be able to do that. But beyond that, the benefits are great retirement plans. Fantastic. There's a free healthcare clinic on site, um, and you have access to all their clinics around the city as
well. So, um, yeah, I mean, I could
probably go on, but
[00:20:32] Michael Zarick: I, there's, I
this is my favorite topic. I, I love being able to talk to someone about it. Yeah. Who's like, if not as passionate, is certainly more, or at least lives it to the point where Yeah.
Per It it's perceived that you are,
[00:20:46] Will Hazen: well, a lot of people think that if you're a bus driver, the only thing you are going to be able to do is drive a bus.
And I think that's true at a lot of larger agencies. But the really fun thing has been, um. I've been able to volunteer on stuff like the Pride Committee, the
50th anniversary committee. Uh, I was able to work with our graphic designer on a new mural, uh, for East Campus, uh, that celebrates the history of transit here in Indianapolis. Um, you know, and I get to talk to people about signal timings so that we can make our buses run more reliably. I love that like, I think about
the
[00:21:26] Michael Zarick: signals. I think about the signals in Indy a lot. Yeah, I think they're rough.
[00:21:31] Will Hazen: Yeah. Yeah. It definitely needs some work. And like big part of the BRT project has been going in there to the signal boxes and upgrading that infrastructure that a lot of times is several decades old, really, and has just, you know, we haven't invested in that signal infrastructure to make everyone move more reliably.
Um, and so a huge part of that. Uh, those projects is investing in traffic signals. A lot of the stuff people assume BRT is doing, the dedicated lanes, the stations, that's not the majority of the project work. The majority of the work is the drainage, the underground infrastructure, new water lines.
Yeah. Um, you know, the stuff you're not seeing stuff like the signals.
Yeah. So when, when people see the project, they think it's just a bus project. But really it's, it's a once in a generation infrastructure project
where we get the chance to go in there and fix a lot of the issues, uh, that have plagued, plagued our infrastructure for the last couple decades. So
I love that. Yeah.
[00:22:38] Michael Zarick: That's so sick.
Um, great. I have a question. Yeah.
Are buses the future or Are we trying to spread out? Are there, are there, are we bringing the trolleys back?
[00:22:52] Will Hazen: I wish. Yeah. Um,
[00:22:54] Michael Zarick: I can see the tra I live in Broad Ripple. they're
they're peaking through the concrete
[00:22:58] Will Hazen: Yeah. Or
[00:22:58] Michael Zarick: whatever.
[00:22:59] Will Hazen: Yeah. I, you know, I hope someday
we get the opportunity to do that again.
Um, the reality I think of having so many cars in the city right now is that BRT is a much better solution. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a lot more flexible. Um, you know, if there was a, if a car crashed on the streetcar tracks back in the day, that was kind of it. You just had to sit there. Um, which was fine before there were no cars in the city, but
as cars became
more and more prevalent, you know, it became more and more of a problem that cars were parking on the tracks and stuff like that.
So the nice thing about BRT is we just go around, um, so. I think especially in the interim, until we start to reduce car dependence in the city, BRT is a great solution. Um, and even in countries that don't use cars that much, um, you know, cities like Bogota in Columbia and, and a lot of cities in Mexico have leaned pretty heavily on BRT as a solution
to move a lot of people very efficiently.
[00:24:12] Michael Zarick: So,
or even just cities in America. Yeah. Like the bus, the
bus system in New York City or San Francisco, which both have
pretty strong, robust subway lines.
Yeah.
Have also very robust bus systems.
[00:24:25] Will Hazen: And you've seen, you've seen cities like San f San Francisco has invested in the Van Ness, BRT, um, in New York City, you've seen things like the 14th Street busway, uh, that help move buses more efficiently.
Because ultimately ul ultimately, a lot of times your last mile solution is still gonna be a bus.
Mm-hmm. So even if you have a great rail system, you
still need a, need
a, bus for a lot of those last mile connections. Great.
[00:24:50] Michael Zarick: That's amazing.
All right, let's uh, let's step back.
Who's, who's will Hazen? Like, where have you so you've, you've been in Indianapolis at least five years.
[00:25:03] Will Hazen: Yeah.
[00:25:04] Michael Zarick: How years have you been
here?
[00:25:05] Will Hazen: Uh, about six now.
[00:25:07] Michael Zarick: Okay.
Yeah.
Wow. I, I didn't realize you're such fresh blood. Yeah. you're so integrated into the Yeah.
[00:25:12] Will Hazen: so I'm, I'm from Southern Indiana. We moved, uh, to Fishers when I, was about eight years old, probably.
Mm-hmm. Eight or nine. Um, and as soon as I had the opportunity to leave
Fishers, uh, I did, I feel
[00:25:31] Michael Zarick: like I've, maybe that's 'cause I,
it's like
funny that's like survival bias. You hear the people who leave
fishers,
one of the leave fishers.
[00:25:37] Will Hazen: Yeah. Yeah. That's,
[00:25:38] Michael Zarick: because that's the only people you
meet.
[00:25:39] Will Hazen: So I, I lived in a small town in Kansas, um, for a summer. Um, and interned at a historical society there, um, and worked on the restoration of a caboose while I was there.
And so that was sort of like, you know, my shot into transportation. But even before that, when I lived in Fishers, I was, um, volunteering at the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville. Hmm. Uh, so I was a car attendant there. Uh, I got my motor men's license, um, so I worked on fair train and stuff like that.
Um, all the Christmas trains. Um, so had that love for transportation.
[00:26:26] Michael Zarick: You said you wanted to do aviation, but all the signals Yeah. you're telling me your are different. We're, we're, yeah.
[00:26:32] Will Hazen: So after Kansas, I went to Michigan and I was
still driving down to Indiana to work at the railroad Museum, um, after they had moved to Logansport and were operating trains out at Kokomo.
Um, and did my pilot training, got my pilot's license in Michigan. Um, and after Michigan sort of decided I was gonna come back to Indianapolis, moved back down here with a friend of mine. Um, and I had a friend who happened to work for IndyGo Jerome Horn, and he was like, you know, put in an application, man, like, I'll give you a tour of the garage.
Um, so I went and walked through IndyGo's Garage. He told me about all this stuff IndyGo was doing. Um, and I was really excited about it. Like, you know, this is. This is an organization that's trying to make the city a better place. Um, and, you know, it was like,
seems like it would be fun to, to be a part of that.
And so I jumped on the opportunity and, um, got hired at IndyGo on my 22nd birthday. Um, didn't start class until October, but, um, yeah,
it's, it's been
a, a fun ride since then. So,
[00:27:55] Michael Zarick: so Where um, maybe I missed it.
Where in the city have you lived? You're on the near East side now?
[00:28:02] Will Hazen: Yeah,
[00:28:03] Michael Zarick: that's what we'd call this, I guess.
Yeah,
[00:28:04] Will Hazen: so I used to live, uh, just before this I lived in Woodruff Place, so also near East side Um, and then, um, prior to that, lived at 22nd
Pennsylvania. Um. And then obviously Fishers was, um, not in the city, but strictly speaking, but in the metro area. Mm-hmm. Um. and was born and raised in Columbus. Um, so just out, I think just outside of the Metro. So, but as a kid, like obviously Indianapolis was the city we came to for, you know, the big events and stuff like that. Yeah. Um,
did
[00:28:41] Michael Zarick: you you went to the little, or not Little 500. That's that's
in in Bloomington, the, the big 500, the Indy 500 this past week.
[00:28:47] Will Hazen: Yeah. So I've been going to that for nine or 10 years
now. Safe for COVID when, when nobody was there. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:28:54] Michael Zarick: So,
um, what about Indianapolis is
Like, what's the juice? Like, what do you like?
[00:29:01] Will Hazen: I like everything about it. Um, save for sprawl. I don't like that part. um,
we're,
we're working on it. Yeah.
Um, so I don't know. It's, I
think Indy's
superpower is. And I've heard this from friends
who moved away too. Um, they felt like this is a city where really anyone can get involved and make a difference here. And in a lot of cities, you feel like a pretty small, you know, factor, um, but a small cog in a big machine, if you will. Um, but in Indianapolis, I think anyone who wants to, who shows up and gets involved, uh, can make a big difference.
Um, and I think you see that and sort of the everyday
people who, who are out here, you know, sort of doing the work.
And
[00:29:55] Michael Zarick: There's this like, um, I was thinking about a couple things on the way over here and I'm
interested to share them with you. But the first one, which ties into this is
I was thinking about what it would be like to start this podcast I'm doing in Los Angeles.
Yeah. um, which is obviously a, a massive city. Yeah. Especially in comparison to Indianapolis, but Indianapolis is not small. No. But
having started this year and released an episode, one episode, so far. Yeah.
Um, second one soon. Um, there is this feeling that even though the city is sprawled, that people care about whatever other part of the city you're telling them about.
Yeah. Hey, what's going on in the Near East side? What's, uh, I picked up the, what's the small newspaper? The
Community Urban Times. The Urban Times, yeah. Like that type of thing. That small community, uh, newspaper that talks about what's going on all over the city. Yeah. It's a little gossipy kind of. Yeah. Um, I think is not something that you find. Uh, in larger cities, like no one, yeah. People, people like their certain neighborhoods, they care what's going on in their certain neighborhoods, but they don't really think about what's going on elsewhere. Yeah. And that sort of interconnectedness I think is really unique.
[00:31:14] Will Hazen: Well, there's a lot, like, especially here on the
Near East side, there's, there's, something, I don't remember the exact number. cause sometimes neighborhoods merge like Holy Cross and Arsenal
Heights, um, but like the near East side is something like 17 neighborhoods, I think. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's all united under the Near East side banner. And there's this community organization that does fantastic work, but even in a smaller neighborhood like this, you've got Westminster Neighborhood Services that's also doing, you know, a food pantry and meal giveaways and helping, uh, low income people as best they can.
Um, and then right next door you've got Inglewood, CDC, and they do everything from a food pantry to building housing. Um, you know, like everyone. In Indianapolis. There are so many great people here that are doing such great work. Mm-hmm. And that really deeply care about the city, uh, and want to make it a better place. Yeah. I think that's really unique.
[00:32:12] Michael Zarick: Yeah. There's this common through line that I think everyone sort of believes that Indy is in a place where the direction of the city, can be influenced heavily. Yeah. On a really small scale. Yeah. If, or, you know, on a big scale, but like a single person
have that, that effect.
[00:32:29] Will Hazen: Yeah. there's there's
some cities that are like, sort of set in amber, um mm-hmm. Just based on the way that they, they've sort of built out and developed. Um, but Indianapolis for, for better or worse is, is a very moldable city. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think anyone who wants to can leave their mark on it and, and make it a better place. so
Amazing. Um, so. It sounds like you have mostly lived In this part of town when you have lived here. Yeah. So where are you hanging out? Where do you go?
Um, i. my, my brunch spot. Um, and I might be giving something away here. Oh, no secrets. Yeah, Is dark.
[00:33:15] Michael Zarick: That's okay. No
one listens to this.
[00:33:16] Will Hazen: Yeah.
Well,
Yeah.
it's
gonna
go viral after this and then we'll have problems.
Everybody well supposed hear about the brunch spot. Yeah, I'm going to, they're gonna listen, not be able to walk in there. Yeah. Secret spots. Um,
brunch spot, definitely. Garden Table, although I'm really in, that's not that secret. I'm really interested to try.
Uh, Yosh.
I think, uh, on Michigan, when it opens
[00:33:37] Michael Zarick: YOSH
[00:33:39] Will Hazen: Yosh, uh, it's Y-A-S-C-H, something like that, is that, it might be Y-Y-A-Z-S-H apparently it's like a, um, like a sort of, I think Mediterranean style.
But the brunch spot, uh,
[00:33:56] Michael Zarick: Mediterranean food is my, that's my, um.
I'm half Lebanese. Okay. So I have like this ancestral calling to eat. Yeah. I'm
not, I'm not culturally Lebanese. I don't know arabic, none of this stuff. Yeah. But I just have this uh, it's almost like caveman.
[00:34:15] Will Hazen: Yeah. Like
[00:34:16] Michael Zarick: I
[00:34:16] Will Hazen: eat Mediterranean food and it
[00:34:17] Michael Zarick: yeah.
[00:34:17] Will Hazen: You sort of, it's like
the, the shark
[00:34:20] Michael Zarick: smelling the
blood and water.
[00:34:21] Will Hazen: Like, it, it just, it brings me joy. Yeah.
[00:34:23] Michael Zarick: Um, so I, I go
[00:34:25] Will Hazen: feral
[00:34:25] Michael Zarick: it. shouldn't have told me that. It's dangerous.
[00:34:27] Will Hazen: Yeah. So I
I've been, it was actually right across the street from my old apartment and I was always hoping they opened before I moved, but they didn't.
Um, but I've sort of seen the activity happening over there and I'm really excited to try that. But, um, I I've got a, you know, I love the tamales over at Tlaolli. Um,
[00:34:51] Michael Zarick: is that the
PA shop that's Like
20 feet away, not 20 feet, but, you know,
[00:34:55] Will Hazen: Yeah. It's, it's a little like purple sort of house off of Washington Street about going there for lunch.
Yeah. Um,
really good stuff
over there. Um, and
then if I just want like a simple hamburger. The Golden Ace. Uh, Uh,
The Golden Ace. Yeah. Six, $6 for a hamburger, cash only. Um, and just a really solid old little bar that's been there since 1920. Um,
really? Yeah. That's cool.
Still owned by the same family.
[00:35:28] Michael Zarick: Does it look like it's from 1920?
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Right on.
[00:35:32] Will Hazen: Um, so, um, favorite pizza place? Definitely Futuro Love. That's on the list. Yeah. I, um, I'm gonna isolate some people by saying that,
[00:35:40] Michael Zarick: I'm, I'm not a Detroit style pizza. I'm a pizza connoisseur. Okay. And I'm someone, I might get hate for this, but
I think Indianapolis on the whole, has really a really weak pizza game.
[00:35:52] Will Hazen: Yeah. You gotta go to Futuro
[00:35:54] Michael Zarick: but, but I'm really, there's
Futuro and there's the Sam's Square pies.
[00:35:59] Will Hazen: Yeah.
[00:35:59] Michael Zarick: Those both look really good.
[00:36:00] Will Hazen: Yeah.
Yeah. They both, they both do incredible pizza. Um,
fitro fitro definitely has
the uh, the better schedule that fits around my my life, so I'm usually there. Um,
but Sam's is also very good, so Right
on.
Um,
[00:36:18] Michael Zarick: but yeah.
Awesome. Is there any,
um, those that covers like food, what any, um, like, other places? I don't know, like, just social hangs.
um,
[00:36:31] Will Hazen: I usually like,
[00:36:33] Michael Zarick: it sounds like
you're, at least when we were
emailing you're a busy, busy body.
[00:36:36] Will Hazen: Yeah. Yeah. I'm usually absolutely, uh, I've. Got so many things to do in a day. Um,
but if I am like going someplace to just hang out mm-hmm. That's usually Rabble. Um, okay. The coffee shop. Yeah. so it's a it's a nice place where I can go sort of sit and hang out and I'll meet people there a lot for coffee. Um, if you know, either that or Tick Tock, Um, the smoked fish spread at Tick Tock is just killer smoked
[00:37:09] Michael Zarick: fish bread.
[00:37:10] Will Hazen: Yeah. It's, so, it's like a little dip and they give you club crackers with it. Um, and if you're going there just
to hang out, like,
and meet a friend or whatever, like, it's a, it's a great little appetizer. Mm-hmm. Um, and you know, it's
the smoked fish bread is, it's A1. It's good
[00:37:34] Michael Zarick: That's good stuff.
That's awesome. Um,
so you're a cyclist?
Yes. Do you, are you involved with the Bike Indy or
what's it called? Cycle Indy.
[00:37:44] Will Hazen: So I've
been on the Bike Indianapolis Advocacy
Committee, uh, before. Um,
but you know, with the schedule changes, uh, a lot of the time, you know, I haven't been on it in while. I still get the emails about it, but I haven't, you know, haven't been active, I should
[00:38:03] Michael Zarick: say.
I
see. So,
oh, actually I just remembered this. I wrote it
down. You have been hit by a car.
Yeah, a couple times. Uh, More than once. Yes. A U-Haul.
[00:38:12] Will Hazen: I'm glad. An Audi,
I'm a sedan, so Yeah. I'm
assuming the helmet
[00:38:16] Michael Zarick: it saved your ass.
[00:38:18] Will Hazen: Uh, it's so I will, I will be completely
honest. Um, I was
not wearing a helmet. Oh my God. Any
of the times I was hit, I'm sort of a, um,
Yeah. So I'm gonna say, I I do not wear a helmet. Personally, because I don't think you should have to wear one. Um,
[00:38:41] Michael Zarick: that's a hot take.
[00:38:42] Will Hazen: Helmets are for cars. They make car drivers feel comfortable about
being dangerous, and so I don't wear one. Um,
[00:38:52] Michael Zarick: so it's almost a protest
[00:38:53] Will Hazen: you're protest. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially it's
[00:38:55] Michael Zarick: despite having been been hit by multiple vehicles.
[00:38:58] Will Hazen: Yeah. Um, no. Like every single time that I've
been hit, it wasn't,
you
know, it wasn't that I
was breaking the law, it's either the motorist failed to yield mm-hmm. Or they ran a red light, or it's very common here. They were just weren't paying attention.
Um, so, you know, I, I,
do unders, I don't blame anyone for wearing one. Um,
[00:39:26] Michael Zarick: Do you own a helmet?
[00:39:27] Will Hazen: Yeah. Yeah. Just sits in the closet though. This is like, yeah. I. I don't think you should have to wear one. If you build infrastructure correctly, um, to the point where cars are going a safe speed, um, and cyclists have a protected, a protected, path, uh, and every road user is treated as as equal, um, then you you don't need helmets.
Like the Netherlands is a perfect example. I hate to go all orange pill on this.
[00:39:59] Michael Zarick: you, what type of bike do you ride? Is it a cycling bike or is it a hybrid type
[00:40:02] Will Hazen: thing? So I love gravel bikes, uh, for Indianapolis. So, um, our biking infrastructure is not, I don't think it's a secret. It's not well maintained here.
Um, so there's a lot of like broken glass and debris and stuff in the bike lanes, uh, a lot of the time. Um, like especially if you get outside of the Cultural Trail Monon on, um, if you. Get onto a lot of the painted bike lanes, there's a lot of debris. Mm-hmm. And so the gravel tires have like a thick enough carcass on the
tire, um, that you can usually make it over the broken
glass and stuff.
Okay.
[00:40:42] Michael Zarick: Yeah.
[00:40:42] Will Hazen: all the nails and whatever that ends up in the bike lane so
[00:40:46] Michael Zarick: Well, the reason I asked is 'cause you brought up the Netherlands and I feel like
the average bike in the Netherlands is a slower ride Yes. Than the average bike in the US
[00:40:54] Will Hazen: Yeah. So I, I do love those bikes. Um, my personal preference is is for the, uh, the gravel bikes. And, I used to do gravel rides out in, out in Kansas. Um, shout out Ottawa biking trail. Um, they, they have an awesome biking community in Ottawa, Kansas. And, um, love when I'm there, uh, going on gravel rides and
[00:41:18] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. So.
So when was the last time you have come in contact with a vehicle while biking? How long ago?
[00:41:27] Will Hazen: Oh geez. Um, it's probably been about a year.
[00:41:35] Michael Zarick: Okay. But you know, all of them have been here in Indianapolis?
[00:41:39] Will Hazen: Yeah. So, yeah. um, all of them with have been within a block of Washington Street too.
[00:41:46] Michael Zarick: Oh wow.
[00:41:47] Will Hazen: So, washington and State, um, Washington and Oriental and Market and Illinois. Um, so everything within within a block So
[00:42:02] Michael Zarick: Okay. and while, like, I don't know how to ask this, when you're riding around, um, is that your main form of transportation? I think it is.
So, uh, used to be,
um, I'm just really interested in, in, I am a cyclist. I like cycling.
[00:42:21] Will Hazen: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Michael Zarick: I do not personally feel comfortable. cycling most places here.
[00:42:26] Will Hazen: Yeah. So, I just
[00:42:27] Michael Zarick: want to get at, at that basically
[00:42:29] Will Hazen: cycling definitely used to be my main form of transportation.
Uh, I still do it a lot on the weekends, um, you know, to go to whatever meeting I have to get to. Mm-hmm. Um, I'll typically, you know, bike to Amelia's up at Spades Park. um, you know, I'll pretty much bike anywhere on the near east side and downtown.
Mm-hmm. Um, but recently, probably after I got hit the last time I started taking the bus a lot more.
And I now would say the bus is definitely my primary, primary transportation. So
[00:43:07] Michael Zarick: So,
what's the, what are the best places, um, when you are biking, like where are the best
places to hang? Do you go, down, you
go up and down the monan, or is that too Uh, far out the way?
[00:43:16] Will Hazen: Yeah, so occasionally I'll go up up the moon on a little bit.
I usually don't my. This will be another hot take, uh, for you. Um, I
don't really cross
the old city limits that much. Um, I actually don't know what that means. What does that
mean? So my belief is that the 1938 city limits are when Indianapolis achieved perfection from a size, you know, point of view. So the city was roughly 82 square miles, um, back then.
So definitely not the 360 or whatever it is today. Um, So
[00:43:59] Michael Zarick: is that, are you saying,
is that. pre uni gov? is
that. what you're referring to? Or, I'm oh, this.
[00:44:04] Will Hazen: before that. Like I'm too stupid this. Yeah. So UNIGOV was 70, I think. Okay.
Um, so
the 1938 City started, you're
like a purist Yes. Yeah. Ind
[00:44:16] Michael Zarick: Indy purist.
[00:44:17] Will Hazen: Yeah. So
Very much like everything in the old city limits, 1938 we're putting this mark on it. Mm-hmm. Um, is the most walkable, most enjoyable part of the city And I will stay within, you know, that boundary unless I'm going like, I really like Beach Grove, I like Speedway. Like, I'll go to their downtowns occasionally. Mm-hmm. Um, but outside of like that I, I stay in the 1938 city limits. So, you know, outside of that, it, it's kind of cracker box sprawl, you know, it looks like those little, uh, premium
saltine boxes.
[00:45:05] Michael Zarick: I'm I'm learning so much. Right.
now. That's so interesting.
[00:45:08] Will Hazen: There, like, in the old neighborhoods you get this variation in the built form.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like you look at Old Street
I know. You're
[00:45:17] Michael Zarick: right.
This is, it's, it is. I. I ostensibly agree with you. Yeah. I just had never thought or
considered
[00:45:24] Will Hazen: 9, 19 38 is where I draw the line. After that, Indianapolis got too big. It, it got too big for its own good. Like the old city, you have these interesting streets where
there's commercial spaces, there's these houses with lovely, intricate details.
Um, you know, the palatial mansions on Meridian Street, like you have so many Interesting.
[00:45:48] Michael Zarick: you heard it here first. Will Hazen is deeply conservative.
[00:45:51] Will Hazen: yeah,
[00:45:52] Michael Zarick: yeah, sure. From a city layout.
[00:45:55] Will Hazen: Put put it on the headline of the Star
[00:45:58] Michael Zarick: That's really interesting. I'm I'm glad I asked or we got to there. Yeah. Um, okay. You mentioned earlier I had not. Maybe you
didn't mean this in the way that I thought you mean, but you just said the words, I own buses.
You physically owned bus vehicles?
[00:46:13] Will Hazen: Yeah. So, um, a while back, um. I think it was
during COVID, I was like, you know, I, uh, I've got a lot of free time now with COVID 'cause nobody's meeting in person. Um, and so I made the really smart idea. Um, I saw these buses for sale on, I think it was Gov deals, and it was a seal bid auction.
And I was like, ah, what the hell? I'll, you know, put in a bid and see if I get 'em. And so I put in a bid. I was like, there's no way, you know, a scrapper ISS gonna buy
these out from
under me. Um, and I didn't think about where I would park buses.
I
didn't think about any of the logistics of it. It was
sort of
like
on the whim
I was just,
I was just like, it, it would be fun to own a bus.
Like, um, so I bought it and when I went up there to East Chicago.
The lady who was selling them was like, we didn't get any bids on like these other three. Do you want to buy the other three? And I said,
how much do you want? and she was like, 400, um,
$400 For a whole bus. Yeah.
For a bus and Right. that So that a man.
Yeah. And so we, me and my friend bought four buses. He, I, he bought one,
I bought three legally. Um, And so I decided that wasn't enough. Um,
[00:47:51] Michael Zarick: you own more than three buses.
[00:47:53] Will Hazen: Well, I did like, I don't anymore. And so I sent, I sent an email to Muncie 'cause I was like looking through old public transportation reports and it tells you the age of all the vehicles in a agency's fleet. And there was one that like from Muncie, it said 1981. And I was like, who
has a 1981 bus still in their fleet? Like it's a 40-year-old bus at this point. And so I sent 'em an email and I'm like, Hey, if you guys are ever getting rid of this, let me know. I'd love the opportunity to, to buy it. And they're like, I didn't think anything of it.
A year later they sent me an email, um, and they're like, Hey, so we heard you were interested. Um, it's going to a seal bid auction as is required by law. Um, and here's what it comes with. Came with a whole part store. Um, I. Sort of like a transmission spare doors, like three rebuilt air
conditioning compressors,
the whole lot.
They had saved parts for all these RTS buses they had and I put in a bid at like $2,000 and I was like, you know, we'll, we'll see. Um,
the only one who bid. And they're like, so
we got two bids. Um, yeah, that's right. Uh, and the other one was a scrapper who bids $666. So you beat him out, um, and let us know when you can come pick it up. So
I go to muncie, uh, to pick this bus up. They're showing me around all this stuff they've got, and I'm like, what did I do?
Like the, the amount of parts was enough that I had to fill up my other bus two times and drive it back to Indianapolis. For all the parts that came with this thing. And then the RTS was full of parts when I drove it back.
[00:49:52] Michael Zarick: What's RTS stand for?
[00:49:53] Will Hazen: Uh, rapid Transit Series. Got it It was a model of bus. Um, so yeah,
I owned these buses, uh, for about four or five years and, um, I like, got busy again. Uh, like I used to just drive him around for fun and I had a ton of fun doing it. Like, it, it's,
[00:50:18] Michael Zarick: did you like, it? Was it like party bus, Like you bring your friends or,
[00:50:21] Will Hazen: No, like, just for, I, I would just yeah, I
would, I, I would tell my friends like, I'm gonna go drive the bus today.
Like, let me know if you wanna come for a ride and we'll go drive around the city and get ice cream. 'cause the best part is no, like no parking cop is gonna tell your car.
Or your bus, because
[00:50:37] Michael Zarick: who can tow a bus
It takes us two
[00:50:39] Will Hazen: hours to find a rotator for it.
you got two hours minimum. You know,
[00:50:44] Michael Zarick: it's like instead
of being so wealthy, you don't care about paying parking ticket. You just have
your whole bus Well, they
[00:50:52] Will Hazen: they don't
know what it is either. So they don't ticket it. like,
they,
[00:50:57] Michael Zarick: they assume, it's like, something,
[00:50:58] Will Hazen: assume
it's a city bus that like broke down right there. So they, they're just like, ah, whatever. Um, so
[00:51:05] Michael Zarick: this entire time, I, I
don't, you haven't looked at me. My mouth has been agape time. I'm just like
what is this?
[00:51:10] Will Hazen: So it was, it was like really fun. like, we'd go drive it to
get ice cream and you know, you just leave
it wherever. cause nobody's gonna say anything. Um,
like I did get pulled over in them before, 'cause Like I would drive it down Fall Creek Road and an IMPD cop pulled me over and was like, what are you doing on Fall Creek Road?
They're like, is this an Indygo bus? And I was like. Uh, no. So at this privately owned you probably all the legal stuff
for
[00:51:38] Michael Zarick: it. Yeah.
Do you need a CDL to drive a bus on?
[00:51:42] Will Hazen: Not, not if it's registered is not for hire. Um, it like tech, so I think it technically falls under recreational vehicle. Um,
so, uh, yeah, of course.
I have one though. Um, you know, and so as as I got busier and busier, I reached out to a couple museums, uh, in the region and the Midwest Bus Museum was like thrilled for this opportunity
to have this bus. And I said, it comes with a ton of parts. Um,
[00:52:14] Michael Zarick: you just have all these parts sitting around. Yes, here you go.
[00:52:17] Will Hazen: like, so they came down and they were like, holy crap. Like, we have another RTS and these parts will fit that bus too. Oh. Oh. Um,
[00:52:24] Michael Zarick: save someone's, there's like a a scientist or researcher or whatever, a bus Yeah. Curator who. Cried that
day.
[00:52:32] Will Hazen: Yeah, they were, they were Like holy crap. Like this is a whole garage worth of parts.
Um, and so they took that bus. Um, and I've worked on selling the other two,
which were newer buses to, to private owners and stuff. Um, but yeah, now that I own a house, I'm like, you know, gotta pay that mortgage. So I
was
[00:52:54] Michael Zarick: hoping that I would walk outside There would be a
bus around. Yeah.
[00:52:56] Will Hazen: Unfortunately not, but like, I am for the, the owner, the private owners of these new buses that like, aren't using them for bus things.
Um, like I took the, I took the roll sign out and
so I'm gonna like display sold them to display new or something?
[00:53:12] Michael Zarick: No. I mean,
[00:53:13] Will Hazen: no. Like
I, it's people that want to use it as like, like a
pool bar. like
they Oh, That's kind of fun. Put it out in their backyard. That's a
[00:53:22] Michael Zarick: bad use of it, I don't
[00:53:23] Will Hazen: think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They wanna Like, turn it into like
a pool house slash like, cabana, you know, kinda, have you heard
[00:53:29] Michael Zarick: of this nonprofit? I'm really interested to talk to him. Um, it's called Reverse Bus. Uh, no I uh, no I
[00:53:35] Will Hazen: haven't,
[00:53:35] Michael Zarick: no. There's a guy, um, I don't know,
how he's acquiring the buses, but
maybe it's through people like you. Yeah. Um, he's doing a service called Reverse Bus. Okay. And I say service, but it's more like he's performing service because he's, um, making these buses that take multiple roles.
Like he's got a sleeping bus and a shower bus and a food bus, that type of thing. Hmm. And he is driving them around to like serve, um, unhoused folks.
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, I tried to reach out to him. He hasn't gone back to me, so I'll have to do it again, but I thought you might be interested in that, right?
[00:54:06] Will Hazen: Based
here.
[00:54:07] Michael Zarick: It's based in Indiana. Okay. Um, I think he's currently focused on Indianapolis. Um, but he wants to expand yeah. And I also don't know if it exists yet. This is something I'm a little confused on but it sounded really nice and like. Worthy of attention.
[00:54:24] Will Hazen: Yeah. They're super, like flexible vehicles. Like one
of the cool projects IndyGo did was our shop converted one of the buses that was about to be retired, um, they converted to, to like a mobile grocery store. Um, and Eskenazi uses that now as like a, a roving grocery store that can go to food deserts and stuff like that.
And they can provide, uh, produce to people who live in an area that's underserved. Um, you know, with, with fresh food. Like they might have a corner store that
sells chips and that sort of thing, but they don't have something that where they can get fresh produce. And so that bus can go there. And then, like one of our old buses
is going up to Westfield to become a boutique in a sports park.
[00:55:08] Michael Zarick: that's like a small, like clothing store.
[00:55:10] Will Hazen: Yeah, that's the point. Like, and then we converted, um, like one of our buses was converted to like a mobile, um, office space so that if there's ever. Some incident that affects the garage. um,
say there's a
fire or whatever, um, this bus has, is set up with printers and stuff like that so that we can prevent, we can print time cards, they can dispatch buses from there.
Um, so it gives us a lot of operational flexibility if something happens, you know, so they're
[00:55:46] Michael Zarick: super flexible I walked into this, uh, conversation thinking we were gonna have a, a, a good conversation about transit. What I realized is that I'm even more deeply interested in transit now than I've ever been before
[00:55:58] Will Hazen: Yeah, it's super fascinating. Like, there's so many cool things. Like, it's sort of like the, um, the era after the interurban, like when the interurban companies went bust, like all these interurban cars got used as different things like the, the last surviving Indianapolis streetcar that's currently in the.
A collection of the Hoosier Heartland Trolling Trolley Company. Yeah. Um, it was used as tire storage at a truck stop in Bedford. The, um, the last Terre Haute, Indianapolis and Eastern Wood body car, uh, was used as part of a house, um, like the Union Traction car that they're restoring right now. That was used as a, uh, office building at a gravel pit up on Fall Creek.
Yeah. And then like 4 37, uh, the other Union Traction car was used as like a, a fishing cabin. Like they all went into these different, the most
[00:56:59] Michael Zarick: versatile vehicle on
[00:57:00] Will Hazen: earth. Like they were
turned into corn cribs. They were turned into whatever, like it was, it was like a lot of these cars were sold off during the depression. Um,
some of 'em were sold off just before the war. Um, so there was a huge need for preassembled. Buildings, you know, if you will. Yeah. Um, and like they were cheap, so people bought 'em and turned 'em into whatever they were. Like I said, they were corn Cris, they were houses, you know? That's so funny. Like whatever, but
[00:57:33] Michael Zarick: buses. Yeah. Right on. All right. The previous guest has asked you a question. This is my through line. Oh, for all podcasts? Yeah. Previous guest. His name is, uh,
Jeffrey thompson. Yeah, yeah. Thompson. might, I hope that's his name.
[00:57:50] Will Hazen: Tompkins. Tompkins, yeah. What is wrong with me? Yeah, I, so I've actually, full disclosure, I've, um,
fellow or was, I don't know if he still is, but was a
fellow near east sider, um, and used to talk to him a lot on social media back when Twitter was still alive. Yes. You
[00:58:09] Michael Zarick: fully swapped, right?
[00:58:10] Will Hazen: Yeah, yeah. I'm over to Bluesky
converted. Um, a little butterfly but yeah, we. He's super, super cool dude. Uh, really, um, good at urban planning, so work with him on,
I, hope
[00:58:22] Michael Zarick: he's
[00:58:22] Will Hazen: good at it Some proposals for it's his whole
[00:58:24] Michael Zarick: personality. Yeah. Um, sorry, this is a total aside. Maybe I shouldn't ask you this, but do you call it skeeting?
Like the, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I hate that word. I, i,
[00:58:35] Will Hazen: I, use skeeting. It's, it is, until I hear something better,
I'm not gonna say posting, like, yeah.
[00:58:43] Michael Zarick: Uh, Posting is
kinda lame. Okay.
Jeffrey Tompkins? Yeah. Not Thompson. He's, he would fight me. Uh, he asks What
has inspired you recently? It could a person, it could be a thing. I don't know.
[00:58:57] Will Hazen: I don't know. Like, so I would say my riders inspire me every day. Like, I know that's a cliche answer.
[00:59:04] Michael Zarick: No, I, um, really not what I expected you to frankly.
[00:59:07] Will Hazen: Like. a lot like the work that I do. Is inspired and driven by them. Like, so a lot of times they'll tell me something that I wasn't consciously thinking about, like maybe I saw it and I didn't like connect the dots.
But a lot of times they'll tell me, Hey, you know, it'd make my life easier if, if IndyGo did this, or if they move this stop here. Mm-hmm. And you know, a lot of times I'm like, yeah, why not? Like, it makes more sense for it to be closer to this destination versus
this one. Like, maybe the old stop was close to something that used to be open, but now is closed and has the building's been torn down or whatever, and like it makes more sense to move it.
And so a lot of times we'll have those conversations and um, you know, we can, we can make somebody's life a little easier. So I, I think I would just say my riders inspire me every day. And the,
um, specific rider in question, can you name names?
[01:00:06] Michael Zarick: Are
[01:00:06] Will Hazen: you Oh yeah. Well, I mean, uh, there's a hundred
people like I, I, I'm not gonna pick favorites, um, in case they, in case they hear it. Um, but
like the, uh, there's one rider on the 34. I'll give her a shout out, uh, Charlotte. Um, and like I when I, told them that I had to be away from the bus for a day, uh, for the coach operator, the year ceremony. Mm-hmm. Um, congratulations.
Yeah. Like, thank you. They, they wrote me a card, um, gave me a bag full of snacks. Um, and, you know, they all gave me their congratulations. And, um, I still got that card hanging on my fridge as I do with every Thank you I get from a rider.
Um, so those are the people that inspire me and that I do it for, um, every day.
That's amazing.
[01:01:02] Michael Zarick: So I also had a lame answer. My lame answer was podcast guests. So,
[01:01:05] Will Hazen: yeah.
[01:01:05] Michael Zarick: Um, you.
know,
[01:01:07] Will Hazen: Well, it's
[01:01:07] Michael Zarick: just the people you interact with that inspire you, I hope. Yeah. I spend, the people you're interacting with
[01:01:11] Will Hazen: inspire you. I spend most of my day with, with bus riders, so, um, that's who I spend most of the day talking to and, uh, learning from.
[01:01:20] Michael Zarick: So. Amazing. Yeah,
Alright. I, it's loosely hinted at, but I also need you to ask the next podcast guest the question. It can be about anything in world. Um, it doesn't have to be
[01:01:32] Will Hazen: Yeah, that's, see,
that's hard 'cause I, it is hard. Um, I can, I can ask them what their favorite bus route is. Um,
[01:01:38] Michael Zarick: what what if they've never ridden the bus?
[01:01:40] Will Hazen: Yeah, yeah. Put 'em on the spot. Um, um,
I I don't know. I guess I would ask them like, where are their favorite space is in Indy that brings people together? you can rephrase that however you want, but like, like what's their favorite? What's their favorite space? You know, i.
[01:02:02] Michael Zarick: is the bus.
[01:02:03] Will Hazen: That's the whole point of the, the podcast, right? Yeah. So we're,
uh, like mine. Yeah,
mine is for sure the bus, um, um, you know, the connections every day on there. So
[01:02:14] Michael Zarick: I haven't lived here that long.
[01:02:16] Will Hazen: Yeah.
[01:02:18] Michael Zarick: But I think I have an answer. I like to answer the question too.
[01:02:24] Will Hazen: Like you gotta go. Summer's coming. Spark on the circle. That's a good one. I, I, we, are we big Spark fans or,
[01:02:32] Michael Zarick: okay.
[01:02:32] Will Hazen: am. Well,
[01:02:33] Michael Zarick: this is, this is something Jeffrey and I talked about actually.
Is that type of thing should just, let's just eliminate all cars around that circle just
[01:02:41] Will Hazen: No, it's obnoxious. People think it's the place to, to, do a sideshow and it's not, yeah. It's, it should be the people's space. Like it's on, it's on our flag, you know?
It, it is literally the flag. It is the
flag, uh, Market and Meridian. So, you know, it should be a space for people and it's,
you know, we should do it year round and
orient the whole c circle towards being more pedestrian friendly.
But
[01:03:10] Michael Zarick: I know there's a, sp let me gimme just a second. Let me picture in my head. I know there's a spot that I has inspired me recently.
Actually, you know what? This is so easy for me. Yeah. I, now that I've actually, I was like, I've, in my, well, in my head in my head, this is gonna sound so funny, but, um, So when I was younger, I, for five years I was a summer camp counselor.
Yeah. Um, and summer camp is like hugely influential on my personality, my life, that type of thing.
The place here in Indianapolis. That to me is the most powerful gathering place of people is The Children's Museum. Hmm. I think that the level of joy and togetherness that you can experience, not only as a child, but as a parent. Yeah. Or even an adult. I went just, I don't have a child. Yeah. So like went with a friend who has a child and just, like, it's so amazing.
I think that the Indianapolis Children's Museum is the,
[01:04:10] Will Hazen: is why it should be free. Right.
[01:04:12] Michael Zarick: I think that a lot of museums in Indianapolis that are not free. Should be free. Yeah.
[01:04:16] Will Hazen: And, uh, plug, accessible, uh, via routes, 30 Red Line and the
Purple Line. So if people
are looking. For how to get to the, uh, Children's Museum without paying for parking. uh, absolutely Go with IndyGo. Perfect answer. Yeah. That's plugging IndyGo today.
[01:04:34] Michael Zarick: I plug IndyGo. IndyGo get funded. Yeah. We love you. Yeah, I love you.
I would prefer never to drive, ever.
[01:04:41] Will Hazen: I mean, it, it, should be a service that is funded. at a level so it's accessible for every person in the city to have access to it.
Mm-hmm. Um, and you. Know, I we always look, you know, of course as an agency on how to reduce those barriers to entry, um, which more of our public spaces should be like that. Um, they should a very low barrier to entry so more people can enjoy them. 'cause the Children's Museum is expensive. It's really cool, but it's expensive.
[01:05:09] Michael Zarick: How much does it cost? I really don't know. It's probably 40 something. Yeah,
it's
pricey. Yeah.
[01:05:14] Will Hazen: Like if, if you're low income, you know, that's a tough sell. But definitely all of the kids in the city, like, especially if you're a Marion County resident, it should
be free. Yeah. Sort of like the Bike Share. Shout out Pacer's Bike Share on that too.
[01:05:26] Michael Zarick: Unfortunately. It had a, um, a corporate backer in, in northwest Arkansas there is like basically owned by the Walton family. Oh yeah. yeah. Um, there's a beautiful
museum there called the Crystal Bridges
Museum
of Art or whatever. Um, and Wallace, or not, sorry, Alice Walton, um, basically helps fund it and because it belongs to the Walton family, it's entirely free, but it's like one of the most beautiful museums I've ever been to in my life.
But I don't think you should necessarily need a corporate sponsor
[01:06:00] Will Hazen: to be
[01:06:00] Michael Zarick: open all the time.
[01:06:01] Will Hazen: But you know,
if you are a billionaire, uh, use your
money for good things
Yeah.
[01:06:05] Michael Zarick: Like sending
[01:06:05] Will Hazen: children to the museum.
Yeah. And paying for Pacer's bike share. Shout out to the Simon family too, that is also,
[01:06:11] Michael Zarick: shout out to them. free if you're a Marion County resident. Yeah. Forever.
[01:06:15] Will Hazen: Use your money for good. And if, uh, if somebody wants to make a. Large donation to IndyGo Foundation. they can go online and, and do
that.
[01:06:23] Michael Zarick: And
someone else may have a large donation to me or Will personally.
you can reach out to Third Space Indy@instagram.com Yeah. Thank you so much, Will Hazen for joining me on this podcast. Hit me with a high five.
Have a great day. Yeah. And I hope you listen to the next one. Yeah. Peace.
[01:06:45] Michael Zarick: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. If you want to hear more from Mr. William Hazen, you can find him driving around town on IndyGo buses. You can also find him posting about local issues and transit on Blue Sky at William Hazen, all one word.
And I would be remiss not to ask you to ride the bus if you're afraid to or it's your first time. Reach out. I'll go with you. my pleasure. And of course, you can donate to the IndyGo Foundation if you wanna see a better and brighter transit future in Indianapolis. Link to that in the show notes if you want to hear more.
Third Space Indy guests. You can find us thirdspaceindy.com and on Instagram and TikTok at Third Space Indy. You can also send emails to thirdspaceindy@gmail.com. I want to hear from you any day of the week. Thank you as always to Jennasen for permission to use her song Scared Rabbit as the main theme for the show.
And thank you once again for listening, and I hope to share the next episode of Third Space Indy with you.