Ep. 9 - Bill Brooks - Editor and Publisher of the Urban Times
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The Urban Times is so much more than a newspaper. It’s a way of telling the collective story of downtown Indianapolis. Bill Brooks has been running the paper for over 30 years. In each issue, he shares just a small piece of the work that has gone into revitalizing our city, from the suburban flight of the 1950s and 1960s to the vibrant and unified collectives that make up the neighbors and neighborhoods striving for connection with those around them today. Bill and those who help him create each issue speak to the motion of the city.
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If you didn’t know, my own wife works for the local media. Anna Darling is a morning reporter and anchor for WXIN Fox-59 here in the city. My uncle has flown the helicopter for WLKY in Louisville my entire life, and there are many members of local reporting crews who are iconic to me. The local news is near and dear to my heart. I want to share a bit about why I think these workers are important to maintaining the social fabric of the city.
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Important links and mentions
Bill Brooks
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Production learnings from the episode
This is another episode where I feel the audio overall sounds quite good. The room was quite big and echoey, but I am thankful to Descript for providing the tools to make the audio sound great.
My biggest pain point right now is still my photography. Not that many folks watch the video version of the podcast, but for my own sanity, I would love to continue to work to improve the visuals of the podcast; this would also help with the clips I post each week 😀.
In Defense of Local News
We are at a time where the local news is under duress. At the same time, everyone I talk to is craving more knowledge about what is happening around them. They want to know what events are happening, what is being done about crime, and how they are going to put food on the table tomorrow. The local news is our only institutional way of discovering this information.
When I say institutional, I mean it functions as a single source of ‘truth.’ Ignoring whether or not what is said on the news is always the full truth, it is a unified place to find all the information you need about your city, held to a higher standard than that of independent journalists or media talking heads (like myself), and the people who are doing the work are almost always a part of the communities they are reporting on. They are your friends and neighbors, they are accessible, and they are present in the moment-to-moment living of the city.
So when we are at a time where people desire to know what is happening at all levels of city, state, and national government, who better to report on that than those people who live among you and have a personal investment in the subject? This is the importance of local news journalists. And it’s impossible to reproduce at the national level. Many national media outlets RELY on the local journalists to turn stories for them and often outright take the information from the small guy.
Without the local news, you cannot hear about everything that affects your life directly. The local school board is making decisions that affect your kids. The changing of zoning laws lets you know that there’s a coffee shop going in around the corner. The arrests are happening at the restaurant down the street. This is the type of stuff you can only consistently hear from people who dedicate their lives to informing people.
And so if you’ve made it this far down and you have the means, I would ask that you consider giving some money to the local PBS station so that they can maintain their level of reporting, which is already lower than it should be. Here is a link to WFYI’s page in Indianapolis, but feel free to give to any organization you see fit.
Thanks for reading and thanks for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy with Bill Brooks!
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Episode Summary
Building Community: An Interview with Urban Times’ Bill Brooks
In this episode of Third Space Indy, host Michael Zarick interviews Bill Brooks, a seasoned journalist who manages the Urban Times, a downtown Indianapolis-focused newspaper. Brooks shares his extensive experience in journalism, detailing his roles at various newspapers and his move to downtown Indianapolis over three decades ago. He talks about the evolution and revitalization of neighborhoods like Lockerbie, emphasizing the importance of community involvement and continuous effort to maintain thriving communities. They also discuss the significance of local third spaces like the Red Door Cafe and the Chatterbox for fostering community connections. Furthermore, Brooks provides insights into the complexities of urban planning and neighborhood improvements, sharing inspirational stories of collective neighborhood efforts. The episode concludes with a reflection on the enduring value of community engagement and the essential role of personal effort in building and maintaining meaningful relationships.
00:00 Introduction to Lockerbie and Community Building
01:17 Meet Bill Brooks: The Man Behind Urban Times
02:59 Bill's Journey in Journalism
06:00 The Birth and Growth of Urban Times
08:32 The Vibrant Neighborhoods of Indianapolis
11:26 Challenges and Triumphs of Urban Living
15:58 Community Engagement and Social Dynamics
34:18 The Paradox of Connection
34:35 A Welcoming Community at Red Door Cafe
35:59 Making Friends Through Boldness
37:27 Reflections on Indianapolis
38:44 The Evolution of Mass Ave
42:12 Personal Stories and Local History
44:43 Favorite Third Spaces in Indianapolis
47:31 Hidden Gems and Local Secrets
56:22 Final Thoughts and Outro
Episode Transcript
Bill Brooks
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Bill Brooks: [00:00:00] Let's say Lockerbie, which has been my home neighborhood for most of that time, the 70 year olds and 80 year olds.
When they came here, it really was a war zone and they had to commit and they were fully involved and created a beautiful, thriving, expensive neighborhood, basically. , those people know what was involved and even the people that came like me 30 years ago when it was still a work in progress, , know what was involved. You move in today, it's a finished neighborhood, and you maybe think it was always that way without anybody doing any work.
So there's always a danger of that, of complacency.
Michael Zarick: There's a universal desire, I think
where people go, I wanna meet people, I.
wanna make friends.
And I ask the question of have you tried, have you tried making friends? Right.. And that sounds really mean at its face, but at the end of the day, making a friend a true friend Is a relationship. And relationships are always work. And the same thing is true of community. Which is what I think they're getting at, at communities don't just go on their own, They're made up of people of [00:01:00] relationships. And you must continually work at them.
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick. This is Third Space Indy. Today I'm talking to Bill Brooks. He is an esteemed local journalist. wouldn't say so probably, but I'm hoping that will be able to show you why I think. So Bill, uh, is the, actually he's the everything. I'm not even gonna give him a job title.
He does everything for the Urban Times, which is a downtown Indianapolis focused newspaper. But also I've learned in the past hour that Bill an is
aspiring barista. Uh, I think he may also be the mayor of Indianapolis. I think that is also, uh, potentially true. Also, he, uh, wrote the [00:02:00] recent, uh, article of the Urban Times he doesn't be king, but he wants a little bit of kingly power.
Um, so maybe we'll talk about that too. Hello, Bill.
Bill Brooks: Good morning, Michael. How are
you?
Michael Zarick: I'm I'm you? very well, uh, actually doing much better now I've sat with you and your your neighbors. Yes. Um, you're i'm doing very well.
Bill Brooks: We have a collegial family here at the Red Door Cafe.
Michael Zarick: Yes, Yes, definitely. I, I, I, I, I i, I, I was not expecting to speak about the we're in.
Yeah. Until I, I'm glad I showed up early. Because I think I really got a sense of what you're about. and that is sitting on your couch your spot saying Good morning to everybody.
Bill Brooks: I excel at doing almost nothing. I mean, and I joke that my job here is holding that red couch down and it is not yet floated away.
I am very good at my job.
Michael Zarick: Um, what's the, what's the quote like? Oh, nevermind. I,
I don't know. [00:03:00] Um, so Bill, would you mind telling me a little bit about about who
you, are, what you do, and a little bit about the Urban Times?
Bill Brooks: Okay. Well, I'm a journalist. I have been for 60 years.
Mm-hmm.
I wrote my first newspaper article when I was in high school covering our local basketball team, um, that I was actually also a member of and studied journalism at Ball State and also English.
Um. I was sports editor at the Crawfordsville Journal of View in 1970. Uh, moved on up. Uh, ran was editor, managing editor and or publisher of, uh, the playing field messenger and the Mount Vernon Democrat, uh, in southern Indiana. And then my last real job was managing editor of the, of the Newcastle Courier Times, which I left in 93 to go out on my own.
Uh, moved downtown Indianapolis [00:04:00] 31 years ago. And for the first two or three years, what brought me downtown was I was the media consultant for a statewide disabilities organization trying to fight Medicaid cuts. Uh, very topical. Sound familiar? Yeah. Uh, but this was in the, uh, early nineties in the, uh, Evan Bayh administration.
Um, even though Evan was a democrat, he was very fiscally conservative and he wanted to make dramatic cuts that would've closed. Half of the group homes in Indiana and we fought them. And then I picked up jobs along the way as a consultant. I did a magazine for the Indiana State Museum prior to the opening of the new museum to help build a statewide constituency to raise the $60 million we needed to raise to build a new museum.
And, uh, yeah, uh, I worked for many years. I called myself the lead writer for the, in, uh, Indiana State Bar Association magazine. That was my, the title I gave myself. Uh, [00:05:00] because 90% of their copy was written by attorneys, 'cause it's a professional journal. But I covered their conventions, their conclaves, uh, their, uh, leadership development academy, various things over the years.
And also was very active in a national citizenship education program called We the People, the Citizen of the Constitution. And, uh, and then someone and asked me to take over the Lockerbie newsletter. Uh. That someone I've been now living with for the past 30 years. How dare she. Yeah. Yeah. She made a, it was a big mistake on her part.
Uh, but, uh, and then the Old North side asked me to take over their newsletter and I did both of those, uh, while doing other jobs. I also covered the Pacers and the Cults on and off for 30 years. Uh, the last, uh, eight or nine years when I moved downtown, I, I put together a column of sports column and coverage that was printed in six or seven suburban [00:06:00] newspapers.
Uh, so I covered them and, uh, and then I, the Lockerbie and other neighborhoods wanted me to do their newsletter. And it, there was no economy of scale. You'd be going to the same advertisers four different times. So I folded or told the Lockerbie and Old North Side that I was stopping their newsletter and was starting my own.
Do you want it or not? And so we started with four neighborhoods. In 2005 and, uh, um, other neighborhoods wanted in Herron Morton Place and Woodruff Place almost immediately demanded to be in demanded. They really did. And, uh, uh, I didn't want to grow that fast, but they kind of forced it on me. I'm a pushover and, uh, and so the Urban Times was born and has grown and we're now covering 15 neighborhoods.
We're home delivered to a little over 10,000 homes by the neighborhood associations. And the News News magazine is filled with, of course, neighborhood news, but more [00:07:00] so cultural, entertainment, news, business, new business news development, uh, a history column by my wonderful friend, Connie Ziegler. And, uh, and my column, which people somehow feel obliged to read.
Uh, and that's what I do. I'm getting older all the time, as much as I've tried to stop in. Mm-hmm. Uh, so just chugging along. Uh. Working at home have, have worked at home for 31 years, obviously since, since leaving full-time employment. And, uh, so COVID meant nothing to me. Uh, and, uh, here
Michael Zarick: I'm, So I, I'm just a, I'm a pedantic person.
So I, I wanna ask on the website you call the Urban Times a Magazine, but by my, at least I think that's true by my perception it's a newspaper, but you also use the word newsletter. What is the correct, maybe identification. I'm not sure
Bill Brooks: there is one. Uh, it depends on how you look at it. Uh, [00:08:00] neighborhoods have neighborhood newsletters.
Mm-hmm. So we were a neighborhood newsletter for many years, and then people kept saying, you're not a newsletter, you're a newspaper. But because we don't deal with Hot Daily News, I don't consider myself a newspaper. Since I ran real daily newspapers, I, I know the difference. Mm-hmm. And so I tend to think of as if we're not a newsletter, we're a news magazine.
Michael Zarick: Sure. That's a perfectly fine answer. I, I appreciate the, the clarity uh, for, for people me who are annoying.
Um, Uh,
Um, so the reason I reached out to you is because I have for a couple of reasons actually, but I've been sort of waffling with this conflict that people are interested in getting out into the community and and doing things, meeting their neighbors, going to events, all of these things, right?
But the two themes that regularly to me are a lack of [00:09:00] accessibility and a lack of marketing. But But when I saw your newspaper for the first time, I said, it's all here. Everything that I would want to know, activities to go to, stuff to do, do, ways to meet people, potentially and potentially meet friends. It's all here. like here.
Um, how do you feel you fit into that? That role?
Bill Brooks: Well, I think we've been very fortunate. Uh, somebody asked, uh, how I thought of Urban Times. I really, it thought of me more. I was kind of stumbled into a, a creative and business model that seemed to work. Uh, we all know what's happened to print media in the last 30, 40 years.
Uh, I ran a daily newspaper down in southern Indiana in the, uh, eighties when our biggest competitor became the US Post Office. 'cause they cut third class mailing rates and suddenly all those inserts that newspapers used to have suddenly [00:10:00] came to you direct in the mail. So, it's been a, uh, a trend for a long time.
Cable tv, uh, you know, I'm, I'm old and when I was a young man or in high school or college communities, had probably maybe three ways to spend advertising dollars. The newspaper, the radio station. Well, maybe only two ways. And then came cable tv. Then came, uh, direct mail. Then of course came the internet.
And, uh, yes, I am old enough to know when there was no internet and, uh, so there's a lot of factors. Somehow I found a niche that seems to be rather immune to that. we're able to attract advertisers because people do want to pick up and find out about local news.
30
years ago, the Star had the staff and the news space to cover infinitely more than they do now.
Uh, and I might not have been able to [00:11:00] exist in this role 30 years ago. I also wouldn't have been able to exist in this role because the infrastructure I would've had to buy printing, pr, you know, would've been cost prohibitive. I have to be rich to even start. Definitely. And, uh. So, uh, you know, and I'm a poor editor.
Anybody ask anybody, they'll tell you. I'm a poor editor. But, uh, uh, but I'm, I found this niche. Uh, the, and also what makes it possible are the remarkable neighborhoods, these neighborhood associations that I'm not sure exists many other places. Uh, they're tight knit. They've had to be organized because they fight outside forces that want to change the nature of their neighborhood.
They also are very active socially. I'm constantly amazed at the, at the neighborhood picnics, the neighborhood festivals that they set up just for themselves and for other [00:12:00] people that find out about it, and they make some money. Uh, they have cleanups that brings people together. Uh, they have porch parties, uh, the absolutely wonderful Joanna Taft, uh, uh, head of the Harrison Center.
Uh, kind of launched the Porch Party idea a few years back and, uh, it's just exploded. And, you know, you can go to the Harrison Center at the first of the, of the summer and pick up packet packets to help you organize a porch party. Uh, that's interesting. I didn't know a lot of people wouldn't know that. I mean, wouldn't, I didn't know that they, well, I also wouldn't need that, but, but if you do, if you're at a loss for, how do I do a porch party?
You know, check with Joanna at the Harrison Center. The Harrison Center used to be the Harrison Center for the Arts. 'cause they were, they were provided studio space for many artists, which they still do. They do, but they dropped the of the arts 'cause they spend more of their time community building than they do ho hosting their monthly first Fridays, which are [00:13:00] wonderful.
Gone. Great. Great. I really need to, uh, wacky, uh, the Factory Arts district, uh, rec until recently known as the Circle City Industrial Complex has. What close to a hundred artists. They're not all open on First Fridays, but a lot of them are. And, uh, they do a wonderful job over there. And, uh, you know, it's just been,
I, I I, I lay it partially to the nature of these neighborhoods where they've had to dig themselves out of the fifties and sixties when these places were slums, you know, and, uh, uh, the Cottage Home people are wonderful.
The Woodruff people are absolutely wonderful. Woodruff is unique because their neighborhood association, unlike other neighborhoods, they have esplanades fountains, historic lights, and wall and gates at the north and south that they have to maintain. Um, when Woodruff was [00:14:00] absorbed into the city many moons ago, the city did all that.
And then one by one, they abandoned it. Or we're not gonna keep up the town hall anymore, and we're not going to keep up the esplanades. So the wood replace Civic league and its foundation have had to raise the money to do all that stuff themselves. Uh, recently they've even been totally restoring historic fountains over there, which ain't cheap.
And, uh, they get it done. And I'm just, I'm just amazed that the resiliency and, and the creativity in, in my neighborhoods, uh, that, uh, allow this to happen. And at the same time, they build community. Uh, I used to tell people we live downtown, we have sidewalks and front porches and we use them. I don't know how over the years I've had many people that moved from the North suburbs.
I won't name any places, but Carmel and Fishers and uh, uh, that said, they'll say something like, you know, we [00:15:00] lived up there for 10 years. I've lived here for six months and I've bet more neighbors than I did in 10 years. 'cause up there you drive into your. Drive into your garage. You close the door, you go into your air conditioning apartment, your, your space is in the back.
Mm-hmm. And you don't walk anywhere.
Michael Zarick: I actually visited Carmel for the first time two weeks ago. I'd never been before. Yeah. I've heard a lot about it. Obviously world class roundabouts. Right. they say, they have a very nice walking district. But what stuck out to me
was that even with the large roundabout. And the walkable area, I think it's the Arts and Design District Yeah. Right. Um, it was still geared towards car-based living. So I need to drive home. I still live in a suburban environment and I just closed myself off as, as people do. Which is very core to the conversations I've having in this podcast. The [00:16:00] thing I've been thinking about is why do people live in Indianapolis proper love it so much.
And this is getting back to what you said, which is that there is such a strong neighborhood identity that even though the land mass of Indianapolis is so wide, that people feel connected to their immediate surroundings because the strength of the neighborhood associations and the activities going on.
Bill Brooks: Sure. I agree with that wholeheartedly. And I think, uh, I work very closely with Downtown Indy Inc. Uh, which is kind of like without quasi-governmental, not really privately supported organization. That's pretty much a chamber of commerce only for the downtown. And, uh, uh, we've seen a huge influx of population.
Uh, not all that long ago, there were fewer than 15,000 people downtown. Now we're approaching 30,000 people and they can't [00:17:00] build apartments and condos fast enough. Uh, and that's because today's young person. Young, professional want to live, uh, downtown. They want to be able to walk to restaurants and walk to Pacer games and, and walk to museums and things like that.
And, uh, uh, so all that dynamic, uh, 94 when I moved downtown really had to be want to live downtown. Uh, streets were empty, storefronts were empty. Uh, some people I know who moved, you know, from say New Castle or Kokomo or Lafayette, their friends would all say, what are you insane? You know, and, uh, but no, you know, it's like these people.
We, we, we had a series in Urban Times many years ago called Urban Pioneers, and it's the people that that braved the [00:18:00] way. Renovated old decrepit houses. Mm-hmm. Uh, there was a couple in, in the Old North Side that had this beautiful, they're retired now in Florida, but their son lives there.
Beautiful house, uh, that they renovated, well, when they bought it in the late eighties, maybe, if I'm remembering right, it was 16 sleeping rooms. Not a wonderful Victorian house. Yeah. And now it is a Victorian house again, well painted. The, the front porch has been restored, whereas when they bought it, it had been ply wooded up.
So there could be two sleeping rooms on the big porch. And, uh, that's what people did. You know, uh, they remembered early days when there were four or five families renovating houses. None of them had working kitchens. So they had to eat three meals a day at a lo at a local cafeteria that isn't there anymore, but not too far away from the neighborhood.
They all got together there, and that spirit of comradery grew into. Neighborhood Association, neighborhood foundations. [00:19:00] Uh, these people were remarkable. They really were. And, uh, uh, the Historic Preservation Commission was created. Lockerbie Square was actually the only historic preservation district for 12 years.
I'm remembering, I think, uh, back in the seventies. And then the Old North Side was number two. Uh, this was a new concept. The, the America of the fifties and sixties tore it down and built something new. Mm-hmm. And people somehow said, no, we can't do that. You know? Mm-hmm. Uh, I will give Carmel credit for doing a lot of cool things up there, but it's still Disneyland.
Yes. You know,
Michael Zarick: actually, uh, Jeffrey Tompkins, who was the the guest right before you, no, that's not true. true. Two, two episodes ago. But at the time of release, I texted him. When I went to Carmel I said, gimme a five word description of of Carmel. He goes, Disneyland, urbanism. That, that's two words, but that's basically what he said.
Right, right.
Bill Brooks: Yeah. Well, you know, I just [00:20:00] thought of, when I was doing the Lockerbie letter before Urban Times, uh, there was a resident, a neighbor in Lockerbie named Mike Garber, the late Mike Garber now, uh, who was a, who worked at the Heritage Foundation when it was headquartered in Indianapolis. Um, yeah. And not the Heritage Foundation, but, well, anyway, a foundation, not, not the Heritage Foundation.
Yeah, that's, I'm sorry. But, uh, uh, I'll think of it 10 minutes after we end this. That's okay. But he worked for, he was a think tank. Mm-hmm. Okay. And, uh, uh, and he'd written two or three op-eds pieces in the Star about why urban sprawl was bad. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we're victims of having lots of flat open land around the metropolitan area leading to urban sprawl.
Definitely. And, uh, I said, Mike. Why don't we, for the Lockerbie letter, why don't we do not what urban sprawl is bad, but why urban living is good And
so [00:21:00] reframe.
Pardon?
Michael Zarick: I said reframe.
Bill Brooks: Yeah. And, uh, uh, the, uh, he provided, I interviewed him, he did something. I forget all. Uh, I had a network of Lockerbie neighbors that on, and I quizzed them all.
Why do you like living here? And various, uh, there were three or four sidebar stories. And basically I said, well, if you haven't read it or don't wanna read it, it was about 6,000 words on why we live downtown and we're better than you are. And, uh, uh, but there were plenty of, in those exact terms, there were no, I didn't, yeah, I kind of did.
But, uh, no, just if I saw people on the street and they'd, I'd say that's, you know, read that because it basically sums that, you know? Mm-hmm. And, uh, uh, but there were just, people wanted to have a sense of community. And it doesn't need, you know, the coffee houses are great. We've had so many more of them pop up than there were 30, you know, definitely 30 years ago.
[00:22:00] Uh, the bars, of course,
sometimes
you get too many bars. But I understand why in the internet world, the cyber economy that I tell people, okay, you can buy your shoes online. You can buy your, your this online. You can, you can order a book online. You can't drink with your friends online. Mm-hmm. You need a place to go. Definitely.
Uh, where everybody knows name, you know? Cheers. We'll talk about that
Michael Zarick: in a second.
Bill Brooks: And, uh, but coffee houses are the same thing. You know, we have people here at the Red Door, uh, I work at home. I get up early, but I started like, oh, I need a break and I'm gonna go over the Red Door. Nine to 10, it almost became my office hours because people find me here if they want to talk to me, they know I'm here from nine to 10, which kind of makes, oh, I don't want to go today.
I guess I kind of have to, you know. But, uh, but Derek and Travis were both here this morning. They work at home. They just [00:23:00] needed to get out, have a cup of coffee, work with some background noise.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Well, just finished a book it's The Disappearance of Rituals. Mm-hmm. And the concept this book of a ritual is things like you don't, a ritual is something you don't actively think about.
It's just something you do
Bill Brooks: Right.
Michael Zarick: That gets you out in community. It puts you in position to to meet and interact with people and how these sorts of rituals are, are going away because 'cause of social media, of
online ordering as as people make more coffee at home. Home, these types of things. Obviously there's, you know, financial, um, incentives to do those things at home, especially in a time where a time where people aren't making as much money as they need to.
But there is so much loss when you you lose out on those opportunities [00:24:00] to take a walk to your local coffee shop and just sit with the people you live around. Right. And check. Right. I really enjoyed, I I got here at 8:30ish 30 ish. You walked in a8:50ishish. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and we sat for an hour and I You to hello every person that walked in.
They said they forced in your name because you, knows you. Um, but those moments of good morning, hi Bill. Right. How you doing? What's going on? on? That is true community building is. It's not right. It's not, uh.
anything more.
Bill Brooks: Right. Well, it's, it's interesting, uh, out of the Red Door here, the, uh, they have a book club.
Mm-hmm. I don't take part in it. 'cause I really like to read what I like to read. Uh, my, my lady does, Jeanie does, uh, Masha, of course, the barista you met, uh, there's seven or eight women that get meet in the, in the bigger room and, uh, uh, every, [00:25:00] and they go all out. They bite, they make thematic drinks, they bring thematic food, you know, Uhhuh, but, uh, those things pop up.
I, there's lots of book clubs, uh, Chatham Arch, you know, neighborhoods have like out to dinner clubs. Mm-hmm. And then they have Chatham Arch has a, has a wine, uh, a wine club Yes. That meet at somebody's house every month. I think I've heard of that. Everybody brings their own wine, you know, and to share and.
And their own glass. And, uh, the cellar dwellers, they call it, I said they should have called it the winos, but, uh, but, uh, who cellar
Michael Zarick: dwellers.
Bill Brooks: But who am I, you know, to, uh, to do that. But, uh, uh, they're just, like I said, I have to repeat that, that the neighborhoods help make all this happen. And it's emerged out of the fact that these neighborhoods pulled themselves up by the bootstraps.
Uh, uh, whereas people had out migrated, had left downtown. The, you know, the people who, rich people lived in the Old North Side in the 18, [00:26:00] middle 1800s. Benjamin Harrison, uh, the owner of, uh, of, uh, L.S. Ayres, which was our biggest department store, um, lived just on Delaware, just north of the interstate house is gone.
But, and then those people moved up to Fall Creek area, then they moved to Butler-Tarkington, then they moved to Carmel, you know. Now they're in Westfield. You know, it just, it just keeps getting going. And then in the early seventies, late sixties, people started saying, you know what? Unique people, I wanna live downtown.
I really do. I'm willing to go buy a place that you can literally see through repair it. Mm-hmm. Indiana Landmarks got its start in Lockerbie, uh, it was Historic Landmark Foundation of, of Indiana, uh, up until about what, 15 years ago when they opened the Landmark Center And they turned it into Indiana Landmarks.
Uh, their retiring president [00:27:00] told me 20 years ago that they bought decrepit houses in Lockerbie, stabilized them in the exterior, and then sold them, and then used that money flipping to buy another property, do the same thing, stabilize the exterior, and then you buy it for peanuts and. And spend a fortune in sweat equity and money fixing the inside.
Mm-hmm. And slowly these neighborhoods, you know, pulled up. Uh, one of the reasons why the interstate sliced right through downtown is in the sixties when those came downtown, people had no, no clout. Nobody, nobody important lived down here. Mm-hmm. So who cares that you cut through a neighborhood and slice it into ribbons?
Yeah. You know? Absolutely. And, uh, so there's varying factors that have made downtown what it is, uh, and gave me the possibility of, of, of doing what I do because these neighborhoods are so [00:28:00] vibrant and involved. Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: So on the topic of I guess, the Urban Times more closely, and this is also true of what I do, of what people like Patrick from, there's another little podcaster.
er Stretch of all of Follow D$ who I both met last. Week. I have this sense that people are,
let
rephrase this. Every celebrity on earth at this time time has their own podcast. Every celebrity on has their Instagram, they're all of these things. Those people are ethereal to me. They, they're exist in another space.
I will never know them.
Bill Brooks: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: To me, there is this desire at this time to to know, I'm gonna call it the, I, I've, used this term before, but the economy of of community. I'm really interested in what's going on around me. I [00:29:00] listen to to
arms. podcast with local IPS teachers, and I was like, this is the most interesting podcast I've listened to.
Mm-hmm. years because I could theoretically meet these people and they represent many teachers that I could come across.
Bill Brooks: Right.
Michael Zarick: Have you gotten a sense. Over the past 30 years of doing what you doing what you do, that people are becoming more civically engaged locally. And also as an extension of that, are younger people becoming more civically engaged?
Bill Brooks: That's, that's an interesting question, and I'm not sure I know the answer to that. And
Michael Zarick: Civically from a sense of like, I am more invested in my community,
Bill Brooks: what, what I feel now, let's say Lockerbie, which has been my home neighborhood for most of that time, uh, the, the 70 year olds now and 80 year olds.
Mm-hmm. When they came here, it really was a war zone and they had to commit and they were fully involved and [00:30:00] created a beautiful, thriving, expensive neighborhood, basically. Definitely. Uh, and, uh, you could, I could work with, and I mentioned John Franklin Hay, you could talk a lot about how you pull neighborhoods up from the bootstrap without yuppification.
There's a way, and, but let's say here, it didn't happen to p you know, properties in Lockerbie are very expensive now. Uh, those people know what was involved and even the people that came like me 30 years ago when it was still a work in progress, uh, know what was involved. You move in today, it's a finished neighborhood, and you maybe think it was always that way without anybody doing any work.
And that's, that's a danger mm-hmm. Of, of that. Yeah. You know, you have, you have to, and Lockerbie's been fortunate. There's been some young blood in Lockerbie that are all in on community. Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] But that could have easily not happened. I mean, there are people in Lockerbie that have bought, and you never see 'em, you never meet 'em.
But by and large people between the Red Door Cafe places on Mass Ave, the uh, uh, the bookstore over at, at uh, Vermont and College. Uh,, What's it called? The something shelf Anyway, I should know it, but
Michael Zarick: is it Whispering Shelf?
Bill Brooks: Whispering Shelf? Uh, these have created third places, uh, that people meet.
the Neighbor Association has great like parties. Uh, 4th of July is a big deal, uh, picnic, you know, things like that. but I think it still depends on the individual. Okay. You move downtown and I can tell instantly you'd be all in the next, the next guy you can kind of tell within weeks whether a guy's in or just passing through.
And, uh, so there's always a danger of that, of complacency. Uh, [00:32:00] there's a, uh, the old this, we're sitting in a former church. We are and, uh, built in the 1880s, a German language church. Uh. The, parsonage next door, the brown two story, historic frame building. James Whitcomb Riley died in like 1918, and this was a, a thriving Victorian neighborhood.
It was not 10 years after that that the, the, you know, the Methodist have itinerant preachers, they move them around and the preacher that came here not long after Riley's death refused to live in that parsonage because it was too bad an area. That's how fast neighborhoods can disintegrate.
Michael Zarick: Yes.
Bill Brooks: And so, uh, there's a constant danger of evolution taking hold in the bad way.
Uh, so you have to convince people, why do I need to buy in? And that's an ongoing [00:33:00] neighborhood association promise. Requirement.
Michael Zarick: I've been asking a really mean question of people recently. Which is, you know, if. There's a universal desire, I think, there where people go, I wanna meet people, I wanna make friends.
Mm-hmm. And I ask the question of have you tried, have you tried making friends? Right. And that sounds really mean at its face, but at the end of the day, making a friend a true friend Yeah. Is a relationship. And relationships are always work. And the same thing is true of community. Which is what I think they're getting at, at, that you can't, communities don't just go on their own, They're made up of people of relationships.
And you must continually work at them.
Bill Brooks: Yeah. Uh, maybe it's been two years ago now, I, I worked with, I was invited by a IU, uh, professor, to, uh, talk to his class on, uh, on community. And, and they were doing a, a [00:34:00] kind of a, one of those speed learning programs. I forget its official name, but we talked about that a lot.
And, uh. What, how you can help, how you can create systems that, you know, in this social media world where social media has connected people and then also separated them at the same time. Uh, and, uh, you can actually be more connected that actually ever having to talk to somebody.
Michael Zarick: Definitely. mean, this is, is, that is, I'm gonna point the camera.
That's the thesis. You can, we're more connected now than ever, but we are individually more isolated
Bill Brooks: Going back in the nineties, forget when the book was written, Bowling Alone. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, uh, but I'll tell a story which I just am so proud of our environment here at the Red Door Cafe, which Cyrus Jafari, the owner, has helped, you know, create the wonderful barista staff.
We're a very international, it's very true clientele here. You know, we have Russian Ukrainians, uh, uh, Nora's from Saudi Arabia. She teaches at the dental school. Uh, [00:35:00] Ruba's not here as often 'cause she has a demanding job. But, uh, there are other sounds like it. There are others. Uh. Okay. About a couple of months ago, this Black woman walks in with this little toy poodle.
Mm-hmm. And she orders a drink. And I, of course am sitting there and not afraid to talk to anybody. And I said, I said, you have an accent. You're obviously not from Southern Indiana. Mm-hmm. And it turns out she'd been here less than a week from Germany, born and raised in Germany. And her husband, who was raised in Germany, but born in Somalia, is a, is a scientist with Lily.
And they get transferred and she's here less than a week. She walks to the Red Door Cafe and now she goes to parties with us. She goes to dinner with us. Uh, that is instant connection. , the, she found a tribe without even trying. And I'm proud of us for that. Definitely. You know, and, uh, uh, I mean, just a very welcoming, welcoming space.
Michael Zarick: I found the most [00:36:00] effective way to make friends is to force them to be your friend. Yeah. Like when I went, when I lived in, uh. Um, Northwest Arkansas. I went to a pottery studio. Yeah. And I was there a decent amount, but one day I walked in and there was this woman there, her name is Elise. She's actually from Lexington, which is, um, which is, I'm from Louisville.
Right. Uh, which which I obviously learned after, but she looked at me, she goes, she goes, you look really friendly. Do you wanna be friends? That was, and that was it. Like, I was like, we were engaged in that moment on. Right.
She just asked me if you wanna be friends? I said, sure. Why not? That's right. And then, you know, we, she's still in Arkansas, but we text and,
Bill Brooks: well, I'm bold and brash and, and uh, uh, do not need social lubricant.
You know, I don't drink very much 'cause I don't really need to. And, uh, uh, but, uh, yeah, I'm. You, you can tell somebody walks in. Of course, you know, the, the geography here as I sit on a couch What the opposite the counter. Mm-hmm. And Masha throws things at me.
Michael Zarick: I mean,
[00:37:00] nobody comes through the Red Door Cafe without seeing
Bill Brooks: interact.
And I force the interaction most of the time you can read body language, you know, and so I'm not, I'm not averse to saying, what's your name and what's your re your reason for existence, you know, , you know, tell me, explain to me why you're here, you know? And, uh, but it gets the conversation starting, you know, and, uh, or, hi, I'm Bill, what, what's your name?
You know, and did you always have your hair cut like that?
Um, so I guess more specifically, what, um, or I guess less specifically actually, what is your, oh, I mean, you've been here, have, you haven't only been in Indianapolis. 30 years, slightly longer, right?
Well, 31, I moved to downtown and 31 years ago. Okay.
I lived in smaller communities where I, where I could run newspapers and do a broad spectrum of jobs, not pigeonholed. I was approached by the Star in like [00:38:00] 1975 and I would've been their like police reporter or State House reporter for 20 years maybe. And, and retired happy, would never have been able to have the breadth of experience that were, that allows me to do Urban Thompson mm-hmm.
To run an entire publication all by myself. Uh, so yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm just been 31 years, 31 years. 31 years. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Is, I'm gonna ask a guiding question. Yeah. But you can completely deny me. me. Is it, is Indianapolis in your perspective now better than 30 years ago? It
Bill Brooks: is. It is, I think full. It's got hordes of problems.
Don't deny that.
Michael Zarick: I think every city has hordes of problems
Bill Brooks: I don't deny that. Uh, and one thing that I tell people all the time, uh, when I moved downtown and there were like five maybe thriving businesses on Mass Ave. There, you know, there was the Abbey Coffee House of way ahead of its time. [00:39:00] Uh, the Chatterbox Jazz Club owned by my good friend David Andrichick.
And, uh, uh, the Old Point owned by Chic and Patty Perrin. Uh, it's now the tavern at the point. Uh, just a couple of handful of places and, uh, uh, lots of store empty storefronts, lots of art galleries that were only open occasionally. Mm-hmm. You know, they were cool, but they didn't draw in daily traffic. Uh, Mass Ave today is more vibrant than it's been since the days of trolley cars.
Okay. And I. But 30 years ago when it was far less vibrant, it was actually kind of more interesting 'cause the only people that lived down here were unique. And by unique I mean weird. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, uh, and delightful. And kooky, you know, and adventurous definitely. And, uh, uh, so I kind of miss those days, but I'm also happy for Mass Ave that's so thriving.
And there's places have been filled in, uh, [00:40:00] the fire station has gone that used to take up the entire block across from Barton Tower. Uh, that was the fire headquarters and the fire station and the credit union entire triangular block, uh, was just not commercial. And the Barton Towers on the other side, the east side of Mass Ave was not commercial either.
So there was no commerce in that 500 block at all. Mm-hmm. And so when we were trying to make mass ab more vibrant, one of our big issues was there were really two Mass Aves. There was one on the Chatterbox Old Point side, and then there was one past 600 block. Uh, and how do you get people from there to there?
How do you get people that have been coming to the Old Point for years even know that there's Theater on the Square, two blocks down the street? Mm-hmm. Uh, so, you know, we fought the battles and, and I'm glad we won. We, let's put "won" in air [00:41:00] quotes. Uh, but at the same time, those were cool days with oddballs, uh, Ron Spencer at Theater on the Square, and, and Brian Fonseca, the Phoenix Theater.
And these were gutty people. Tom Batista, who developed the East End of Mass Ave when there was, there were used to be no commerce past College on Mass Ave, none. Mm-hmm. And, uh, not as, not as zip. Mm-hmm. And, uh, look at it now.
Michael Zarick: I've seen, I've seen the before and after photos. Yeah.
Bill Brooks: So
Michael Zarick: as a, over the past, what, 15 or or less years?
It's right. The. The differences. Right.
Bill Brooks: And we got, we got money for public art. We helped that enliven The Avenue. We got money. Uh, the, there was a cultural development commission that the city and Lilly Endowment funded for five years that pumped a lot of money into Mass Ave, Broad Ripple Fountain Square.
There were six cultural tourism districts and we all had to come up with our own ideas and then compete for the money. [00:42:00] But the money was there definitely. And we were, we were bright, uh, creative people who came up with some good ideas and got some money and, and one by one the dominoes fell.
Michael Zarick: Alright. Uh, so you live, I don't actually know where you live, But I assumes like a block away.
Bill Brooks: Well, we live in, we lived in a townhouse in Lockerbie, right across the street. Yeah. You walk here and, but we moved into an apartment a few years ago 'cause, uh. We had a, for despite having a downtown town home, and we lived at the corner, so we had a lot of sidewalk and a big, uh, three unit garages under there.
So there was concrete. And so it was a lot of space to rake leaves and, and, and shovel snow. Mm-hmm. We're both old and you don't look it. And I got exhausted watching Jeanie shovel snow. And it was just, it was, it was, it was so painful. It was wiping me out, watching her rake all those leaves and shovel all that [00:43:00] snow.
So, so we finally moved. We sold the townhouse and moved. But we've lived in and
Michael Zarick: now you're full of energy.
Bill Brooks: We lived, yeah. She doesn't have to do it. I don't have any energy at all. I'm, I'm barely awake now, so, but, uh, uh, but yeah, we, uh, uh, you know, we, we've been invested in, in Lockerbie, uh, for all that time.
Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And so where do you hang out other than just here? Just here. I used
Bill Brooks: to spend, before COVID, I spent almost every day from four to 6, 4 30 to 6, 6 15 at the Chatterbox. Okay. Which that time of day is a dive bar. Mm-hmm. Now, I used to, a long time ago, close the place down every night listening to great jazz music.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and then I got old and, uh, uh, I need to go in there. Uh, sounds great. Uh, it's a great place. And, and David Andrichik is a cultural icon. He really is, uh, one of the, one of the biggest influences on the development of Mass Ave. Uh, there's a, there's been handful, [00:44:00] but, uh, uh, but, uh, that, but I just don't, you know, especially if I have to do any work at all during the day, which does happen since I do still do urban times.
Uh, I just run outta gas. I'm old. And, uh, so we go to the cabaret. We go to plays sometimes, but I don't every night go to a third place anymore. This is my third place. These are my social hours in the morning.
Michael Zarick: It seems fulfilling.
I have a couple more questions. Yeah, Sure. Ask The first one I wanna ask, and I already know the answer, but I want you to talk more personally about it.
Um, so I have a, a through line through every episode. I have the previous guest ask the current guest a question. Okay. Uh, Will Hazen ask asked what in your opinion, is the best third space in Indianapolis and why? I already know your answer, I assume, unless you have a different idea.
I said just to you you my answer from, [00:45:00] I've only been there once, but to me it was the Children's Museum. Yeah. To me Like a that's like a place where you can really see a lot of familial Yeah. Experience.
Bill Brooks: Sure. Um,
Michael Zarick: so it's not necessarily mine, but I just view it as the best.
Bill Brooks: Right. Yeah. That's a tough call for me.
Obviously, my preferences would be the two We've talked about the Red Door Cafe and the Chatterbox. Even though I don't get to spend much time there anymore, I did for, you know, for 25 years or more. Mm-hmm. Uh, it was my home, you know, and, uh, those to me were my personal favorites. Uh, yeah, there's so many, you know, it's like Masha, the baristas.
She, you met, you should read a recent post she had about what the Pacers meant to her two years ago when my buddies were sitting on the couch talking about the Pacers. Masha said, let me know when you're done so I can talk about something I care about. And then we took her to a Pacer game, and [00:46:00] then they had the run this year, and she waxed eloquent about what that meant to her as a community.
And, uh, uh, and I covered the Pacers on off, as we mentioned, on and off, uh, for years. Mm-hmm. I was, I was, uh, a working reporter the last time they were in the, in the, in the WNBA finals and, uh, those sports venues are, are good community spaces. Uh, the museums, I love the museums.
And, uh, I, I used, as I said, used to do a magazine for the Indiana State Museum, and I have a soft spot for that 'cause of my investment in it. Uh, but my favorite is the Eiteljorg. And, uh, I still yet to go in there. I love the, uh, IMA, but the Eiteljorg to me is very cool. And they have a great cafe, uh, that's actually worth going there just to eat lunch.
Oh, really? Uh, yeah. It's southwestern bent. Yeah. And you don't have to pay to get to the cafe. Oh, you just walk and you just walk in, walk straight back. But, uh, uh, but I love that. I love The Zoo. And the Jazz [00:47:00] at the zoo area, the Animals and All That Jazz, uh, is, is fascinating what's going on right now.
Right.
And, uh, yeah, my good friend Kathy Morris just finished playing there. Uh,
Michael Zarick: Are you a big jazz guy? I mean, you have Well,
Bill Brooks: I like live jazz. I don't listen to a lot recorded, but I love live jazz and, and I've been listening to a lot of big band music from the thirties and forties and twenties and, uh, so I've got all kinds of, of, of passions.
I'm a, I'm a rock and roll maniac from the, you know, growing up with the, The Who and The Beatles and, and the Led Zeppelin. And,
Michael Zarick: the next question I have is what is the, I know you have infinite stories, you have 30 years, 30 years of local stories. What is the, the juiciest, like either drama or gossip or neighborhood happening that's happened?
What's a good,
Bill Brooks: well,
Michael Zarick: Like I last,
last month I read the short column about dog poop. Yeah. They're like, please pick up your dog poop. Right. But that's not even, that's not, that's not contentious. I feel like [00:48:00] you should pick up your dog poop.
Bill Brooks: No, there's not. Well, I don't know. Nothing's happened.
Well, the, the drama we had, you don't have those names. The drama we had, uh, was it three years ago when they were doing the north split, redesigning the interstate and the, the plan they had would've worsened the divide. Uh, they would widen the interstate, create like 30 foot tall walls right next to the street.
Oh my God. And, and everything. And a neighborhood coalition. Uh, as I said before, when the interstates first came through, nobody downtown had any political clout. Mm-hmm. Nobody gave a crap. Well, that's
Michael Zarick: certainly not true.
Bill Brooks: And now there is so, so businesses, neighbors, uh, banded together to the rethink.
Coalition Rethink 65 70. They achieved not what they wanted, but still remarkable improvements on the north split. [00:49:00] Now the south split is understudy and you probably got Trump, but uh, uh, there was federal funding to do a better study about how best to do this without impacting the neighborhoods. And that's been underway.
Yeah. so, uh, , They're working on that downtown, but that drew people together. Once again, we had a, cause we had a, uh, something to do, you know, uh, and I think that was, that was cool. Uh, but most of the stories I know about are really positive. Uh, I'll tell you my favorite
Michael Zarick: positive gossip, I dunno,
Bill Brooks: well, not gossip so much is history.
I'm just nosy history. Have you ever noticed Frank and Judy O'Bannon Soccer Park up just off College, north of the interstate? It's wet.
don't think so. It's
It's wedged in between. It's a soccer park that's now operated by Indy Parks.
Mm-hmm.
Let's go back to the eighties. I'm not sure exactly what year to tell [00:50:00] you the truth. Uh, Frank O' Bannon was Lieutenant Governor and Frank and Judy.
Judy is a force of nature, maybe the most important woman Indiana has ever seen. And they lived in the old North side. 'cause now he became governor and they lived in the governor's mansion. But, but at this time, they lived in an old historic house, uh, that had been renovated by Scott Keller of, uh, early developer and uh, uh, and the Old North Side people who the early pioneers said, you know, we need a place for the kids to play soccer Tabernacle up at about 34.
You know, they, they have a big youth program. Yeah. Uh, but that's too far. That was crowded hard to get into. Maybe something like that. Well, we've got this big field over here that's between the Monan Trail. Well, the Monan Trail wasn't there yet, but the Monan Trail and college, just two blocks off college.
What it [00:51:00] was, the state owned it. It had been purchased to be the southern terminus of 69. It was originally supposed to come on down past Castleton, all the way down Benford Boulevard to That makes sense to that spot. Well, those people up in that way did have clout and that never got built. For whatever reason.
They're going, state's got this, they're sitting on it. Let's, let's go ask them if we can turn it into a soccer field. And the state says, okay, O'Bannon's got clout. He's the lieutenant governor. And but how do we fix it up? We can't have the money to turn it, to grade it to establish drainage. Mm-hmm. Local engineering National Guard unit that usually spend summer camp up in Michigan at a place called Camp Grayling.
They convinced them instead to spend the summer camp down there fixing that place to be a soccer field. Now how [00:52:00] creative is that?
Michael Zarick: That's pretty good.
Bill Brooks: And then they ran it themselves for many years and then it just got to be too much. Who's they in that sentence? The old Northside Foundation. And, uh, so they convinced Indy Parks to take it over,
Mm-hmm.
and then it was later named Frank and Judy O'Bannon Park.
Michael Zarick: That
Bill Brooks: makes sense. And, uh, and that, that story is like, it's got a bunch of guys around here and women too, that saying, you know, how can we get this done? And that's a way to get it done. Yeah, it was very creative. And, uh, Fountain Square, the people down there were worried about were Calvary Street curls around there, that it was very pedestrian unfriendly.
Yes. And they,
Michael Zarick: you're talking about very recently, right? Yeah. And
Bill Brooks: you know, and one guy in particular, uh, made that all, you know, took the bull by the horns and made that all to experiment, fit, you know, and how can we do this? Mm-hmm. And how can we make this the old North side, the thing called the [00:53:00] Tinker Street, uh, group, I forget their full name.
Tinker 16th Street used to be Tinker Street. Mm-hmm. Back in, in the wagon days. Yeah. And, uh, uh, so they figured out some of our crosswalks are too wide. You know, you have these four lane, five lane streets, and so you have bump outs and you make it so it's not risking your life to cross. They're at 16th and 16th and, and Delaware.
Uh, the space between where pedestrian. The curbs are much shorter than they were 10 years ago. And, uh, these people, they these people, they get together and they make things happen. And it's really inspiring to me.
Michael Zarick: And then along the sort of same lines of just personal Right. Bill knowledge. Yeah. From riding the Urban Times, what's a, what's a secret of Indianapolis other than the Red Door Cafe?
I think this is a secret and we're, we're letting it out.
Bill Brooks: Well, I dunno about that. there's some dirty laundry. Uh, well, I
mean,
Michael Zarick: what, [00:54:00] are there hidden gems or is there, oh, there's
Bill Brooks: lots of hidden gems What's one that you don't
Michael Zarick: think most people know?
Bill Brooks: New War Memorial. Say it again. The War Memorial. The War Memorial.
Indiana War Memorial. Where there's an interesting story, maybe told another time about, probably not about how that happened, but the, the, the Shrine Room in the War memorial, which is up a hefty flight of stairs mm-hmm. Is the most solemn place maybe that I've ever been in. Mm-hmm. There's a museum in there.
Mm-hmm. There's an auditorium in, am I allowed to go in? Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, uh, but there are all these places, uh, uh. But I, when, when you're talking about gossip, okay, here's something the people
Michael Zarick: See now I knew you had something.
Bill Brooks: Well, the, this is not so much gossip, but, uh, uh, school, uh, Young and Laramore Headquarters over here, uh, right next to the interstate between Michigan and New York Street is a two story former school.
Mm-hmm. School Nine Uhhuh. Uh, the, uh, international Medical Group revamped that [00:55:00] into an office building like 25 years ago. Uh, when it was a school, uh, it was one of its students was Charlie Manson. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And for some odd reason, when the International medical group had the ribbon cutting on that, they didn't want to talk about that.
Mm-hmm. I thought it was very cool, you know, but, uh, uh, somehow, but I snuck it in later. But, uh, uh, these little gems about,
Michael Zarick: That's the type of stuff I'm talking about. Uh, that's good.
Bill Brooks: Uh, used to be a string of, of houses of ill repute along New York Street down here where Vida Vida is. used to be an old decrepit building called Amchis.
And it was original, it was an Italian restaurant. It was very colorful. And then the two houses next to that, they were, they were, uh, uh, houses of ill repute, because back in the Victorian day, the ladies of the wealthy people were much too fragile for [00:56:00] casual sex. Mm-hmm. So the men had to go outside the house and it was almost accepted.
And, uh, so, uh, red light districts popped up on the fringes of, of neighborhoods in the 1800s all the time.
Michael Zarick: That's, that is not something I had ever consider. Yeah.
Right. Um, okay. Two, two final questions. Yes. Uh, and it's okay if you don't have anything for this next. One. Is there anything you wanna speak on? Anything in your heart, in your mind?
Bill Brooks: No, I think we've covered most of it. I think, uh, appreciate you taking the time. It's, I've, I've immersed myself in downtown community and, uh, it's been very fulfilling and, and, uh, uh, very interesting for sure. Uh, working, working with first the groups on Mass Ave that we, you know, helped create what's, what's there today, and then with downtown Indy, uh, on the, uh, improvements to downtown in general.
Uh, absolutely. It's, it's been [00:57:00] kind of cool.
Michael Zarick: Awesome. I. Really enjoyed, I've only read, like I said, two of your, uh, um, newspapers, but yeah, I can already tell it's just an amazing resource.
Bill Brooks: If you want to explore a little further, uh, digitalindy.org is the public library online collection, and I we may be the only general interest news publication on that site.
Michael Zarick: Okay. I'm I, you said so, because obviously it's printed and then goes every month. So I, I'm happy to know that there's, uh,
um.
an electronic version. Yeah, I, I did actually mean to ask, so I'm glad you brought all that. Okay, last question. What is your question for the next guest? It's Ruba tomorrow. Hmm. What do you wanna ask Ruba,
Bill Brooks: other than when are we going to dinner?
Uh, uh, I would ask what,
what
what new fresh ways does she think Indy Reads can help the community more than it, it already helps it
Michael Zarick: Banger. works for me.
Bill Brooks: I'll put her on the spot.
Michael Zarick: Maybe giving you the who it is doesn't, uh, it's kinda like cheating, [00:58:00] but that's okay. Yeah. New and fresh ways Indy Reads can help the community. I can't answer that.
Bill Brooks: I
Michael Zarick: I know
Bill Brooks: she's cooking up she's but but
something. it's all secret. Maybe she's gonna drop some news. I don't have any clues for that. I just, Ruba, she's cooking up something's
Michael Zarick: That's to know. go. Alright, uh, well thank you Bill for joining me on Third Space Indy. I really appreciate it.
Is there actually, where can we find you?
do wanna be found?
Bill Brooks: No, actually I'm well, other than
Michael Zarick: In
Bill Brooks: in person.
Michael Zarick: Well, here, here in person at the Red Door Cafe, right? day. I hold every
day. nine to
10.
Nine to
10. Nine to 10, sometimes 8:30 to 10.
Bill Brooks: Do
Michael Zarick: wanna come talk to the real mayor of Indianapolis?
He's found here.
Bill Brooks: Way too much responsibility.
Michael Zarick: I didn't say there's responsibility involved. Um, and then of course you can find Bill and his writing in the Urban Times. Found all over.
All
over the All
over the downtown area. in every establishment. Steal it off someone's porch. I don't know.
Yeah, don't
Bill Brooks: Whatever works.
Michael Zarick: And then of course, uh, thank [00:59:00] you so much for listening to Third Space Indy. You can find me on Instagram at Third Space Indy and on YouTube and I dunno, thirdspaceindy.com. Okay. That's my first time doing a outro. My pleasure,
Bill Brooks: Michael,
Michael Zarick: thank you so much. Gimme a high five.
No, we're a high five. Right on. All right. Thank you so much.
Michael Zarick: Thanks for listening to this episode of Third Space Indy.
I'm so happy to have been able to share my conversation with Bill with all of you. And as always, thank you to the local artist Jennasen for giving me permission to use her song, Scared Rabbit as the Third Space Indy theme.
I look forward to sharing the next episode of Third Space Indy with you.
Until next time, have a great rest of the day.
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