Ep. 13 - Wildstyle Paschall - Community Advocate and Documenter, Founder of All317HipHop
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Intro
I am a consistently lucky and privileged person. At this time, I think a lot about how privileged I am to feel optimistic in this moment. There is a lot to not feel positive about, certainly, but I have dreams of a better and brighter future and think it is required of me to remain optimistic so we don’t lose sight of what can be.
This is presumptuous, but I think my guest this week is not necessarily afforded that same privilege of optimism. Yet he radiates it anyway — in his way. Wildstyle Paschall is a beacon of community building here in Indianapolis, and I am lucky to have spoken with him. His accolades are too many to list, but here are a few.
Founder of All317HipHop
Community Advocate and Documenter with The Learning Tree
Community Award Winner
Prolific Roller Skater
Music Producer
Local Journalist and News Podcaster
On the way to meet with me, he was caught beneath an overpass as a police chase came by and exchanged gunfire with the person they were pursuing. There is a video (that Wildstyle himself recorded), linked below, and yes, it is crazier than you think it is. Wildstyle still showed up to talk, was still calm, and we had a great conversation. This is someone who is not afforded the privilege of positivity and still performs his work knowing that it must be done for Indianapolis to get better. That is what I see in him.
Can be found here:
Links to listen
Links of references from the show
Production learnings
Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Important links and mentions
Wildstyle Paschall
This man was literally caught in the middle of a police chase before meeting me
Production learnings from the episode
The photography is always an issue. First of all, I need to wipe my camera lens on my phone. Something Anna Darling always tells me to do, but I forget. I think that would reduce quite a bit of glare on the image in this case, but also the rising sun in the recording may not have afforded this, anyway, hard to say.
That said, editing this video prompted me to start looking into a decently affordable and portable camera that could replace my phone. This may be perfect because I will be able to use my phone for notes and not have to lug my laptop around going forward. We’ll be thinking about that.
Also, the AMP at 16 Tech was a great recording space… until the bar manager showed up and started blasting music at 8:30 AM. That was an interesting choice. I had to more heavily lean on Descript this time around than I normally do. The audio turned out all right, I think, but it could have been better. The challenges of using different spaces, especially unknown ones, regularly make for unique experiences.
Be Gone Nazis
There’s not a lot I have to talk about specifically on the subject matter we spoke about on the podcast. What I’m thinking about now is the group of cowardly Nazi sympathizers who marched downtown this weekend.
It’s been speculated quite a bit about where they came from or who they are. I do not think that is necessarily relevant. What should be clear beyond all else is that they are not welcome here. They were not present long enough for a counter-protest to arrive and shoo them away, but certainly, people mobilized quickly and will continue to do so. One of the greatest historical prides of Americans has been and should still be our participation in the dismantling of the Nazi forces in the 40s. I genuinely hope this is not controversial (though it can be argued how important the American forces were, but ignore that for the moment).
I don’t like using the word Fascism, despite us seeing it truly on the rise. The average person cannot tell you what Fascism is, who is and is not one, so I don’t think it’s a helpful term in this moment. What I will say instead is that I do not like people who are attempting to exert their will, both violently and not, among other groups here in the States and across the world.
This is why people like Wildstyle are essential; they document and show, from the ground, where these groups are popping up and expose them to the masses. I hope you enjoy our conversation, and I look forward to sharing the next one!
Third Space Indy is supported by Arrows.
Episode Summary
Documenting the Value that Exists in Communities with Wildstyle Paschall
In this episode of Third Space Indy, host Michael Zarick talks with Wildstyle Paschall, a music producer and community advocate from Indianapolis. Wildstyle discusses his role as a Roving Illustrator at The Learning Tree, an asset-based community development organization. They explore The Learning Tree's mission to highlight community talents and discuss art projects that empower local residents. Additionally, Wildstyle shares his insights on the importance of third spaces like roller rinks in fostering community ties and preventing youth violence. They also delve into the local hip hop scene, its significance in the community, and Wildstyle's journey in music production. Finally, the conversation touches on the political landscape in Indianapolis, emphasizing the need for informed and engaged citizens.
00:00 Introduction and Capturing Community Stories
00:57 Meet Michael Zarick and Wildstyle Paschall
01:19 Wildstyle's Background and Community Involvement
02:23 Asset-Based Community Development
04:28 The Learning Tree and Community Art Projects
13:00 Roller Skating Culture and Personal Impact
20:31 The Importance of Third Spaces
27:46 Indianapolis Hip Hop Scene
28:37 Camera Encounters and Local Artists
28:46 The Reality of Atlanta's Music Scene
29:30 Community and Hip Hop
29:55 Getting Started in Music Production
32:14 Chreece Hip Hop Festival
33:42 Indianapolis: A City of Community
34:48 Challenges and Changes in Indianapolis
37:03 Political Landscape and Local Governance
42:22 The Importance of Local Elections
45:52 The Black Briefing and Community Engagement
50:27 Closing Remarks and Contact Information
Episode Transcript
Asset-Based Community Voices: Wildstyle Paschall Interview
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[00:00:00]
Wildstyle Paschall: One of the things about gifts and talents is that I can tell you that this amazing stuff is going on in my neighborhood I could have told you to do, was I was in the middle of a police chase and a shootout this morning and you're, yeah, you would've been like, ah, okay. But seeing a video of it, you're like, oh.
Oh my goodness. I was like, oh sh--, man.
That's lot different. And that's, so that's my job is to really capture those, those visual stories and those stories of community and gifts and talents in a way that people aren't just politely nodding and say, oh, okay. You know, they're like, oh, wow, like that.
I didn't know all that happens in your neighborhood. I didn't know that these people could do this and that, and maybe we need to work with them or work alongside them, or support them.
Michael Zarick: Hello. My name is Michael Zarick. This [00:01:00] is Third Space Indy.
This is a podcast where we talk to community builders, leaders and organizers about making Indianapolis better in every way. Today I'm joined by Wildstyle Paschall. Mm-hmm. Fresh out of a police chase and shooting.
Wildstyle Paschall: They weren't chasing me.
Michael Zarick: That's true. That's true.
But wildstyle is a music producer, music engineer, uh, photographer. As well as just like involved with the hip hop scene primarily,
um here in Indianapolis, which I'm really interested to learn a little bit about.
You're an avid roller skater, always have the rink. Yeah I see you I see you, I see you there. Um, local news hater. Uh, you're a community advocate primarily with through The Learning Tree. Mm-hmm. But also just as a dude,
uh, as a dude. I, and we work with a lot of other organizations. You're the host of the Black Briefing podcast slash news show. Co-host. Co-host. Co-host.
Yeah. Uh, with, uh, Sam Douglas and Greg Merriweather.
Uh you talked to Joe George [00:02:00] Hornedo Yes. I was. Hornedo. Yeah. Uh, and then you're involved, you're the primary like guy behind 317HipHop. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm uh, and then you're also an avid Threads user.
The only one I know. Wait,
Wildstyle Paschall: I be getting traction on Threads?
Michael Zarick: That's true. You, you get a lot of interactions, but anyways, uh, what's up Wildstyle? How you doing?
Wildstyle Paschall: I'm good man. I'm good. It's been a busy morning.
Michael Zarick: It's been a busy morning. Um, so the reason I asked you here today, um, is to talk about, uh, asset-based community development.
That was the main reason I reached out. Although since I've been looking into you, you were just like, you are like an Indianapolis man. You're like, I don't wanna say third generation, but you're a multi-generational Indianapolis guy. At least third generation. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think that is not something I've had on so far.
So you are very experienced. You have a lot
of history here, um, not only through yourself, but through your family. Yeah um, and I think that's really.
really
Interesting. Um, so let's just start off by telling me a little bit about yourself, what you [00:03:00] do, whatever you're feeling in your heart.
Wildstyle Paschall: I'm pretty calm right now actually.
I was calm earlier despite, everything going on. But, um, I'm, I'm born and raised in Indianapolis and I, I didn't even go away from school or nothing. I've been here the entire time. Graduated, uh, Warren Central
and then Ivy Tech I didn't go to, I spent a semester at IUPUI, uh, before I realized that mechanical engineering is too much trigonometry for my taste and ability Uh, and then I've been really kind of in community spaces. I wouldn't have called them a community space,
you
And, and it wasn't intentional. It was just that you get involved in, in arts and creativity and it's, it's a community space. So, I mean, I started out in the rink and that was my, first organizing experience, uh, then I went to hip hop and thinking that that's like [00:04:00] gonna be like some entertainment business experience, it's another community. Experience.
And then, so I ended up just getting right into direct community work and and from that lens of my immediate community, community which is the near Northwest side.
Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: Can you tell me a little bit? I, I don't think I fully grasped what it was, um, but this is kind of the primary
Thought that. thinking we, we can talk about is The Learning Tree. Can you tell me a bit, a little bit about their work and then your work within the organization?
Wildstyle Paschall: Okay. So we, the Learning Tree is a asset based community development, mm-hmm uh, organization. And a, a fancy and complicated term to kind of reference what John McKnight,
um, this recently passed away. Had seen that a lot of indigenous peoples done throughout history, which was to know each other and know their gifts and talents, work within that framework, uh, for community building and society versus talking about, oh, what don't we have, or how [00:05:00] sick we are. Well, how well are we and are and why are they will, what can what can we do each others What do we have offer our communities?
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Like sort of, uh, correct me if I'm wrong. But like rather than pulling in services, pulling in outside help, pulling in, uh. Uh, contractors consultants. Mm-hmm. All of these people, uh, who maybe don't have the best interest of the community Mind, focus on the people that you have. Focus on their talents, and then sort of work within the, the, the the
the most talents that you have and sort of.
of
really
build up your community in an effective way.
Wildstyle Paschall: And, and I, and like The Learning Tree's role specifically is that, but also to shine a light on that that the, the outside funders and, and organizations and um, non basically the nonprofit industrial complex can kind of get out of their own way and, and realize, okay, maybe we don't have the answers. Maybe this community is more than just statistics on, on a, [00:06:00] on a spreadsheet. How, how how do we come alongside communities and neighbors instead of doing stuff to community and neighbors? And
Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: So on the, on the internet on the website, uh, you're listed as a Roving Illustrator. Would you say that's your primary role or you do other stuff?
Wildstyle Paschall: I do.
Michael Zarick: is a roving illustrator? Good point.
Wildstyle Paschall: What if you would ask to Yeah. Yeah. I mean, initially that was my title because I was only one in The Learning Tree that was, um. A photographer at that point, and there had been another photographer, but he had to go do other things. So I was the photographer and the videographer, the visual storyteller.
And so it was one of the things about gifts and talents is that I can tell you that this amazing stuff is going on in my neighborhood I could have told you to do, was I was in the middle of a police chase and a shootout this morning and you're, yeah, you would've been like, ah, okay. But seeing a video of it, you're like, oh.
Oh my goodness. I was like, oh sh man.[00:07:00]
That's lot different. And that's, so that's my job is to really capture those, those visual stories and those stories of community and gifts and talents in a way that people aren't just politely nodding and say, oh, okay. You know, they're like, oh, wow, like that.
I didn't know all that happens in your neighborhood. I didn't Know that these people could do this and that, and maybe we need to work with them or work alongside them, or support them.
Michael Zarick: What's the, um, oh gosh, what's the park
Wildstyle Paschall: that you live over near?
Uh, Riverside Park. Yeah. And then Bertha Ross is closer to me. Riverside Park is the big park everybody else goes to. People in my neighborhood. We don't really go to Riverside Park that often. Uh, I mean, we kind of do, but it's not like, oh, we're over there every day. everybody else coming over.
Definitely. Would you say you have a, a pretty tight community with your neighbors or anything like that, do you? I do. I think my block, I know everybody, uh, one way or another and we don't all speak, but, but. [00:08:00] But most of us do speak and get along really well.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, told, um, I was telling someone about my, I live in a duplex, uh, I rent rent a duplex and
I was telling someone like, yeah, I know their names. I have their phone number, but like, we don't talk to our neighbors. And like, they were like, that's probably ideal because. You're like friendly with them. we had our wifi go on day and they set up an extra wifi for us.
So like, just being friendly with, with people and just like, uh, have that sort of like camaraderie almost. Is
Wildstyle Paschall: I that's a, sometimes that's a good thing. You, you know, you can end up getting too deep in the trenches with your neighborhood, your neighbors, and end in all their drama and stuff. Like, you know, I mean, I'll give you an example is like, i i. Late at night or I wake up in the morning and and row across the streets like arguing with somebody other than making sure ain't nobody gonna get hurt.
I don't feel obligated to go out there and go get involved in the argument, you know? So.
You know so
Michael Zarick: [00:09:00] that's pretty funny
Um, so
The Learning Tree, asset-based community development, can you gimme any, um, concrete examples about work you've done or like outcomes you've seen? Things like that.
Wildstyle Paschall: So, on a I guess a long, multi-year level, we are.
Kind of the entity and the go-between that Indianapolis Foundation ambassadors, the community ambassadors that work with the Foundation and CICF to kind of hopefully better tailor their, their work and introduce them to the community itself and, and what's going on, and give them a more ground level feedback
Also um, we've been a part of a lot of art projects. I think, um, people in The Learning Tree are artists of some sort. And so 2016, I got into Learnt Tree 2015 and 2016. We had an opportunity to come up with an, uh, art project. It [00:10:00] was a grant, and
I that was the first time I had never written a grant before. Never written a whole lot of stuff before, i I wrote the grant for us, based off of what I knew we could do, and we, the the
premise was that there was, I can't remember the funder's names now, but I, I know CICF was one of 'em, and I think it was, uh, Kresge, not mean Kresge, but they were giving money. And, uh, it was this organization called Reconnecting to our Waterways.
ROW
And they were wanting to do something in our, our area and, you know, beautify the neighborhood. so that the idea was, you know, it was probably gonna up, they were gonna hire some outside design firm and go design some shapes because they had already done a smaller yeah, yeah.
Scale of that. Of that the year before, we were like, uh so what? We said this was a lot more money. We said, no, what we will do is our community will design the art and [00:11:00] they'll paint the art and we will do it. We'll find it and
find the artists in our community. And we ended up having that a project where we took.
Reclaim doors that were generously donated to my alley, uh before the project mm-hmm. Started. And we even knew that we were gonna do it. But anyway, generously donated by people that liked to dump stuff and we took doors and gave them out to, to community members and gave them a stipend and didn't really police what they were saying, you know, doing on there.
You know we Would
try to, you know, we obviously would make sure that they had some type of artistic ability or capacity to do it, but we weren't super, we weren't like, I don't know, the the fields and we we weren't looking for fine art, but what we got, what we got was, uh, incredible.
And
And some of the folks could easily be professional artists if they wanted to.
that up? Um, we have the doors and sometimes. [00:12:00] probably exhibited somewhere, but I couldn't tell you. I mean, they've been to, some of 'em have been to New York, Pennsylvania.
Michael Zarick: Oh, so it's like a traveling
Wildstyle Paschall: It's, it is been traveling for years and, and we have a lot of 'em, it was like 30 or 40 years.
And so some of them are out, some of them are,
are are, um, at our little gallery space on.
Harding as well. So
Michael Zarick: yeah, that's that's pretty cool. Um, so that's the type of thing where it's like, oh, these sort of, this sort of like outside things that, oh, this is an ugly area or street or thing. And it's like we can help fix it.
Uh,
Wildstyle Paschall: you don't have have to pay somebody else. Come fix our neighborhood. You can give us money and we can go, go do something.
Michael Zarick: Sort of keep it, keep it in in house a lot of ways. Um. So I kinda wanna pivot a little bit
Because I didn't know this before I started looking you up and then like
Watched patrick Armstrong's podcast about you. Okay. Where the name Wildstyle came from. I just assumed it was hip hop associated, but it's [00:13:00] not. It's come straight from your early days of roller skating. Yeah. And. How you just literally had a, a "Wildstyle", as you say. Um,
Wildstyle Paschall: yeah. I, I wasn't,
I think people see videos of me now and I'm definitely a lot smoother now than, than I was when I got that name, which was 2003.
Okay. So, uh, yeah,
Michael Zarick: 20 years, 22 years. You don't look that old?
Wildstyle Paschall: i'm almost say, uh
Michael Zarick: uh, wait, what, what, uh, what age were you if you're willing to share?
2003.
Wildstyle Paschall: I was not a teenager. Okay. Okay. I was a grown man then.
Michael Zarick: So when I learned that you. Were an avid skater and you still attend the rink and you still go. You see the same people. You see the young folks sort of coming into this space, hanging out, chatting, have a good time, dancing, skating. Can you tell me about what that has meant over the past 22 plus years for
your personal life?[00:14:00]
Wildstyle Paschall: So I had a gap where I, I didn't come out there for about seven and a half, eight years, and I was like busy in the hip hop scene, but I missed everybody a lot and I came back after the pandemic. I, you know,
definitely health reasons I was healthier when I was out there, but, so I got back out there and I. You know, I missed a lot.
There was a lot of new people, but a lot of the same people that I started rolling with on the adult session in 1999, , were still out there. The people that taught me how to skate taught me moves. Were still out there. And then I saw a whole bunch of younger skaters that all looked like them.
them Like, dang y'all.
And of course, yes. A lot of that comes from people teaching each other to skate. And then I was like, oh no, y'all actually already related like, that's your kids and that's so and so's grandkid and so and so, and what I [00:15:00] discovered when I came back, 'cause you know, you know, when I was younger, I didn't pay any attention to this stuff.
But what I've discovered is that. You know, when we talk about third spaces, the rink and the rink that, have been in town have always been that third space, and that generationally, you think it's all these random people in there, but it's really the same thing. It's the, the skaters often end up with.
with marrying or having
kids with other skaters, their kids skates,
their their their grandkids skates, and great grandkids, and some of 'em all at the same time. Mm-hmm.
And so I skate because my mom skated, she brought me and some of my earliest memories were the rink. She doesn't skate anymore, but. did all the way up until, every you know, every once in a while up until about 10 years ago, would she, if she could, she would.
She's always now, she's always worried she's gonna fall and break, so she still Yeah, yeah, yeah. She still did enough shame, easily. Just the mental thing. [00:16:00] Um, but then you know, she, remember vaguely telling me at one time that, you know, her mom skated. But she went and found the picture of, of my my grandmother in 1953. And at that time you didn't have, most people couldn't afford like dedicated roller skates, so you had to clamp on that was
common, you clamp on skate that would go onto your shoes.
Yeah, but my grandma was in there in a pair of actual roller skates, so I knew like 1953. And then she was standing next to another adult and I had done some research and that was right around when they, they first started adult sessions that I could find in, in the city.
So I was pretty sure she was probably actually a avid roller skater. Like really good at it. And just like my mom had been, you know. Really good and and I'm pretty good.
Michael Zarick: Yeah
Is this at, this is, is this all the same rink?
No.
Okay.
Wildstyle Paschall: So my mom, so this, this would've been, [00:17:00] uh, Schofield, it was on, um, 27th in Schofield, over in Martindale.
Mm-hmm.
And then that burnt down, I want to say in the early seventies. And my mom talked
about going to, she had been there a little bit, but more. Rollerland, which is actually the Arts Council of Indianapolis Field. Okay. I mean, I know where that is. Yeah, it, it's it's got the little marquee out there.
Yeah. That, that was a Rollerland.
Michael Zarick: That's interesting.
Wildstyle Paschall: And then, um,
skate
uh, what is now called Skateland. That's where my mom also skated as a, she would've been in her late teens, early twenties by that time. So and that's, that's where I remember., So I'm, the skate lane's been around for. 51 years.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. IndyGo the other day, uh, posted about this couple who's celebrating their 30th year anniversary having met on the bus.
Okay. You mentioned, yeah. Yeah. you mentioned like seeing this sort of intergenerational, like people meet at the rink, they [00:18:00] get married at the rink, that type of thing. Or get married because of the rink. I don't, I'm sure there's been a marriage there, sure. um.
um,
That's sort of like what third spaces are of me is like this amazing community space where people can, they just spend time together and because they spend time together, they develop a friendship.
Mm-hmm. And a love, and it doesn't even have to be a marriage, marital love. Like feel love for these people because you are around them and you understand them.
Wildstyle Paschall: it is deep. r at the rink to where it becomes own subcultures that deep, like they're they're, culturally, and this is like with, you know, roller skating as, as an adult, as a black, like we have a few white people show up, but it's because there's no, in their towns and stuff like that, there's that, there's almost never an. adult session
Yeah. Yeah. You have to go to an urban black, black city. Or when you say adult, that just means 18 and up. 18 and up. Yeah. [00:19:00] Like, you know, 'cause I remember when I was, I was a mechanic for a lot of years and um, you know, I remember when I was young and I would tell people yeah I'm
going skating and I'm a skater and all this, and I'm like. Like
You know, in my, around 23, 24, and they were thinking I'm some sort of weirdo that hangs
out
out with, with kids that are roller freak because Yeah, yeah. Because they was all white guys from small towns and they were like, what, what, what are you talking about? I'm like, no, this is an adult skate. Yeah.
IMG_8591: Yeah.
Wildstyle Paschall: They were like adult skates.
would adults want to go go? And uh, and, and and almost every, every. A city in the United States with a decent sized black population. There are adult sessions and they're usually packed. Mm-hmm. And so that this is what, you know, I didn't, I never understood that at first. Uh, but, but tho those type of spaces, it develops it's own culture.
And so that. You know, like rinks are called family entertainment, but in black [00:20:00] culture it's like completely, it's legit family entertainment. Like I have pictures out there where there are, there are parents and they're grown kids in the frame that you would never, ever know unless you start looking at. At the shape of their head or or their eyes like, wait a minute, this is going on here. Like, and they,
on the adult session together. Or some of the family skates, family sessions. There would be people that are out there, grandparents their grown kids, and their. Small grandchildren. Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: I also would like want to, to be a little more serious in the moment, like a conversation in Indianapolis right now is like youth violence things like that. To me, one of the solutions for this is giving people a community space, forming this understanding that, and you actually talked about this recently on the, on your podcast.
Yeah. You call a podcast or a news show?
Wildstyle Paschall: Podcast.
Michael Zarick: Podcast. Um, about how. You know, these kids are at [00:21:00] the skate rink, gonna be out on the street.
Exactly.
Wildstyle Paschall: they'll be tired messing
Michael Zarick: each other.
Wildstyle Paschall: I mean, the, the issue was that, that when, back 15, well, probably over 15 years ago, prior, almost. to 20 years ago, um, most of the rinks ended their Saturday night sessions at 10 30 or 11 o'clock. Yeah. And because teenagers are known to do, I don't know, reckless things that teenagers do, they would get to fighting would be police runs. And they were like, oh, we're just gonna shut all of this down
because kids are in there fighting and, uh. are creating this unsafe environment. Well now we've eliminated all that unsafe environment and now the outside mm-hmm. It's even more an unsafe environment because, you know, we pass out guns like candy, and [00:22:00] now there's no, no place where the kids actually go to.
It's actually safe and and at least from, know, they're checked. You checked from every session you come in in r. Rink And so we haven't haven't gotten better, like it hasn't made things better. We talk about the, the violence then, like compared to now, and it's like, whoa. Yeah, I think I think being 2020, I think most rational people would've made a better decision back then.
Yeah. If they'd known what it
Michael Zarick: actually. I think I think about that a lot. Like i as a kid, or at least my perception is this way. We would go to movies a lot, we'd go to the skate rink. I never really went to a skate rink, but that was a common thing that people my age did. Um, just like again, third spaces or just places that are made. For kids that show up, even skating rink, even though there's an adult session still, like a perfectly family friendly place. Um, and like [00:23:00] the the quote unquote death of the third space in a lot of ways is both
the death of gathering space, but also the death of community and it is. Community understanding.
Um, and I think we're really missing out on that, uh, in a lot of ways. Do you have any sort of, is, do you have any thoughts on like what could be a, a, a a
solution in that way or, or things to think about?
Wildstyle Paschall: Um, I, I think one of the biggest issues we have is really like the commercialization where we've driven out.
A lot of, uh, mom and pop, uh, businesses to where like we're forced to go to big box stores get, excuse me, much of anything we are forced to go to, you know, like to, to big grocery stores when every neighborhood had drug stores and grocery stores, small grocery stores. That there, you [00:24:00] would see your neighbors in every, every other day.
would see, see all these business. You've had neighborhood tavern and bars and
where you would see your neighbors. Now, I want to see my neighbors like the best place to go see, that's a gas station, like up the 29th and, and MLK. Um, for a long time there wasn't even a, a place where you could sit down and eat. For most of the weekend and the spaces, and that doesn't help us. And so the only other space is, you know, outdoors. Uh, I don't think that helps people socialize. I don't think it builds community.
and I I think that it, it in many ways it can leave. Some people are more isolated that don't have a separate, don't a third space go you know a church is a third space people, definitely, of people can, people that don't have that or they don't have other type of [00:25:00] friends, uh, I think this can be isolated, not, you know, very isolated. And I think that that contributes to mental health issues and ultimately violence.
Michael Zarick: Totally agree um, hmm I don't really have.
have else to say? I just think it's so, oh, go ahead. Oh, go ahead now. Go ahead
Wildstyle Paschall: now.
Michael Zarick: Um, but definitely something to think on, like, we like to be real. Like, I, I actually been thinking about this all week. Like, police are such a reactionary force. They're not a, they're not a preventative force, right.
you know, they can only react to crime. They cannot prevent it. Um, so like policing harder, putting in a curfew is not stopping people from going outside. Yeah, you need to have a, a preemptive way of people off the street, which is just giving them space to be in,
Wildstyle Paschall: you know, the, the money that we're spending on overtime for police.
Mm-hmm. [00:26:00] That, and, and this is one of the things that I was just irritated with, with was, Uh,
Uh, the majority leader, uh, of the city council, uh, Maggie Lewis, like saying, well, we're gonna authorize more overtime for police to patrol downtown in Broad Ripple and try to enforce the curfew. It was like, why is it just downtown in Broad Ripple?
if you're worried about a curfew across the city?
Yeah, yeah. But beyond that, the money that we are spending on those officers..
and you know, overtime pay is, is steep with police. Yeah. could have literally just simply like rented out venues hired, hired regular security and had them kids go in there and have a dance party
uh,
and rent out the roller rink or work out something with them and let them kids in literally for free.
You would save more money than paying them officers. Yeah. Just like a city owned [00:27:00] thing. Yes. Like, I mean, and. Like we
have the funding to, to go put in the programs. Like if we can put it into overtime, we could simply, and I, I know that like there's plenty of, like, I, I'm not, obviously I'm not a pro police person, but there are plenty of other things that, that police can get overtime on that are probably more serious than curfew.
Michael Zarick: Yeah
And they're not babysitters. They're, at the end of the day, they're not,
Wildstyle Paschall: you do not want potentially angry men with guns. 40%. I say that they abused their spouse. You do not want those people babysitting kids and teenagers. Yeah, definitely not. you know,
Michael Zarick: they got better things to do with their time and like chasing down the guy who drove past you earlier, you earlier. Yeah. all right
let's pivot again. I wanna talk about. So before I moved here, actually I was surprised, not really but uh, like impressed I should say, with the hip hop scene here, right?
It's
impressed. So I'm glad that, I'm
Wildstyle Paschall: glad you, I, I would cut [00:28:00] this clip and make sure I post it.
'cause people, people here always are complaining like, good. I'm like,
Michael Zarick: I lived in Arkansas and I knew about indianapolis hip hop, so I, okay, because everyone, you know, Chicago, New York, Texas, la those are like the. I guess big four maybe. Um, but
I knew some names, uh, before I even moved here. Okay. That's what's up.
See? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wildstyle Paschall: I be trying to tell 'em like, we really do have a, a, a great scene. Like I, I had spent some time in Atlanta and I remember walking around with a camera and everybody raps there.
there
Michael Zarick: Oh Atlanta yeah,
another
Wildstyle Paschall: yeah, yeah. And, and I had a camera, but they were all, they saw my camera, like, who are you with? They tried to give me information, so I'd have these conversations with 'em, and I found out like, we are doing pretty good in Indianapolis.
Like, like, like you think it's all roses over there in, in Atlanta. And it's like.
there's a lot more local artists in Atlanta than you ever hear about. It's only a, a very small sliver of them getting on. And then, you [00:29:00] know, then another thing is in Atlanta they always say nobody's from Atlanta. So you got all these influx of all these people coming in.
Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. So do you feel like it's a truly local like it is it? It
Wildstyle Paschall: is. And I think. There are different scenes, and that's perfectly fine. we do come together at different times and we have a culture like statistically, you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, getting big. The yeah. So at the end of the day.
99.99999% of us need to enjoy community with this. That's, that's more than likely what, what the best case scenario for 99.9% of people that and do hip hop is communities. Yeah. We have. That.
Michael Zarick: Enjoy the local, the local stories, the local like mm-hmm I guess art scene a lot of ways. tell me a little bit about how you got involved with hip hop?
I mean, it's been forever, right?
Wildstyle Paschall: So [00:30:00] it's, it's, uh, it's one of them things, everything in my life. 'cause I'm, despite my name, I, I don't think I am that much of an adventurous person. But, uh,
it all started from the rink and I was, uh. Skating and it was, the session was over and a DJ who was a little bit younger than me at the time, this was back towards the end of 2001, and he's playing.
Instrumentals on, on, you know, on the, on the rent system. And they sound, sound like I'm out here on the radio and I'm, you know, the session's over. I'm still hanging out on the floor a little bit. And I, I ask him like, what, what is this? Because I don't hear no words, man.
Like you know know, he's like, oh, these are, are I made these, and you know, these are my beats. And he was like, I'm like, what? You made this. I'm i'm listening. I'm like, man, listen, they could be on the radio like right on bro You this, that, and he, uh, you know, I told him, I was like, man, I always wanted to get into producing. He [00:31:00] was like, well, might well do it. I made it off of, uh, a game called MTV Music Generation from PlayStation.
I, there's no shots. I was like, what? So he was like, yeah, bro, you should, you should try it, man. It, it, so I, I went home and I got on eBay 'cause the game was actually. Few years old at that time,
had, I had to go, I didn't even have a PlayStation. I, it was an PlayStation. Yeah. Yeah. I got the, uh, PlayStation and and I bought the game and I started making beats.
And that was how I, my first beats were, I still have them, were made on the PlayStation. Then then I moved in and got moved up and got equip man keyboards and, you know, computers
powerful enough where you run really
really software. From there.
Michael Zarick: That's so interesting, I, I guess there's a lot of origin stories like that. Um, like that's so crazy.
So what about, uh is
it just the love of the game that keeps you in it? Or are you like [00:32:00] really about the, the community aspect of the hip hop scene? I mean it, or or is it just the big combination?
Wildstyle Paschall: It's a combination. 'cause I don't do as much producing now as I used to. Like I'm very much, every once in a while I'm doing something, but I'm still in the scene.
I'm still. Uh, going out and, uh, taking pictures of shows and you got Chreece coming up. That's great. Yep. Got Chreece coming up, helping the judge, uh, uh, showcases and try to give advice, uh, help people
wherever I can is definitely the community space. Um, are you involved with Chreece directly? Not directly. I'm, I'm like.
You know, I'm friends with all of them so that, you know, I get called up to like, Hey, take a look at this, or, or you know, we're gonna have a competition. You want to be one of the judges and stuff like that.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. So for people listening, 'cause I didn't know a couple weeks ago, but Chreece is the local hip hop festival, I guess you say?
Yeah, it, it's
Wildstyle Paschall: the biggest, uh, hip hop festival in Indiana. Okay.
Michael Zarick: And it has been since.
Wildstyle Paschall: inception in
Michael Zarick: I feel like a no offense, like an
easy [00:33:00] marker to hit.
Wildstyle Paschall: It was it was. It was, but it is, but there were a lot of other festivals and there's been a lot of other festivals since, and not none of
them have been able to, uh, be bigger, which is, if if it happened someday, that's fine, but none of them have ever been bigger than Chreece.
Michael Zarick: That's awesome.
Yeah, I'd love to go check that out because awesome and, uh, there's
like a lot of local towns. Uh, is it all local? It's not all local, right?
Wildstyle Paschall: It's uh, there are a few national acts. There's a very small percentage, and usually those are like the, the big headliners. Mm-hmm. And then everybody else is Indiana. Okay
So, but I would say it's usually more in the central Indiana dominated, but there are people from all over the state. That, that are in it
Michael Zarick: That makes sense I always like to talk about, especially because you've lived here your entire life. Um, like
I said, your family is from here. Can you tell me, I mean, maybe you've never had an option, but like why are you about Indianapolis? Why is this your town?
Wildstyle Paschall: That's a good [00:34:00] question. I just feel like I never had an option, and I think for me, I never understood it consciously at the time, but am about community and so I've always been in, in spaces where it's like, okay, city first.
Like when I, you know, I was in the, in the skate scene heavy, like I was vice president of
Naptown Real Rollers started a, uh, me and my OG started another boat called Naptown Skate Nation. We were, we go around and mostly the Midwest.
no I think did go to the South a few
times and, you know, we, we skated, we'd go to other events, we would do parades and stuff like that, but it's always been
community and then city, like, you know
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm
you know. Has, um, in general
know, a couple guests ago I asked over the past 30 years, has Indianapolis gotten better? absolutely, yes. You have the same sort of sense. I would say the city has gotten in a good trajectory overall,
Wildstyle Paschall: [00:35:00] Overall. Yes, there's, it is much more, more diverse, uh, a lot less closed-minded than I, I remember it to be as a kid.
a lot of other ways, like we're, we're, we are definitely struggling. I think our communities, our physical communities like neighborhoods we're stronger, uh, back in the definitely
eighties and nineties, and we're. A lot of that now Uh I I just think because of gentrification, disinvestment, uh, people have been pushed around and the sense of community has disappeared from a lot of places because
a lot of people are no. Talk to people. There's a lot of people that you know, they might claim one particular side of town or particular neighborhood, and you'll find out that this was one of a dozen neighborhoods that they grew in. That was the one that they they claim. And and not to say that people shouldn't move around, but when it gets to [00:36:00] be that many people having saying they lived in a dozen different neighborhoods, we have. A yeah,
Michael Zarick: and like i i, read your articles from years and years ago, 2021 and like thinking about where we're sitting right now, which is actually like a really nice space. Um,
shout out to the garage. I think this is better. Thank you. Um, thank you, but. We are effectively in a, a place that was previously destroyed, um, paved over, uh
demolished all those words, and and it's been made into like an industrial park people used to live here,
It was well established place. Talking, I'm talking about Indiana Avenue as sort of Black neighborhood, um, and a place of Black wealth. and that's sort of been like, to your point, we have seen a, a growth in homelessness and as you said, like a nomad culture where people are getting pushed around the city because they don't have other [00:37:00] options.
, But there's no solutions being presented to that.
Um
Wildstyle Paschall: are, it's just that are, uh, city government and, uh, state officials is
either don't care, or they just don't want to put the, uh, resources into it.
And, and, I think it's a combination of both. I think it's a lot that don't care. don't wanna rock the boat.
Some of them have bigger political aspirations. They don't wanna piss off developers people that
people. Yeah, off of the nomad culture and the, and and the, the housing scarcity, because it allows, excuse me, bad landlords to continue to be bad landlords and charge of premium because houses, housing is, uh, such a scarce commodity.
Definitely.
Michael Zarick: And. George Hornedo, um,
So let's talk about it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, actually what I was gonna say, uh, and then we'll circle back, is that like you can't [00:38:00] truly build a community. You can't have an established place, capital P place
without consistent people living there and consistent. Um, relationships being formed. Yeah. As you move people around. That's part of the reason, you know, easiest way to solve crime is to hand people $500.
Yeah, yeah yeah, exactly. Frankly. Exactly. 'cause like, that's the reason people do crimes 'cause they have no other options. They're trying to get out of their situation. Um so when. We have this place where people like George or i can never say his last name, just George. I'll figure it out sometime. Hornedo. Hornedo, when people like him are coming forth and presenting a pretty face.
And like talking about really abstract solutions to this issue we're facing.
That's the type of issue [00:39:00] we have. We need people who are willing to to
Wildstyle Paschall: by. Like real solutions. I, that was what? At
at least me the, that's what, why I gave Hornedo the trauma days because I hadn't heard as many people talking about acknowledging, the issues on the ground here at a, at a level like that. Fortunately, I, I feel it is more of a pretty face type of thing
you you're saying this and that, but you know, you're not necessarily telling the whole truth and I don't know if you're gonna do any different. So
Michael Zarick: did you meet him in person? I did. Okay. two hours. And you, you were like pretty impressed at initially.
Wildstyle Paschall: Initially I was, I was, I was. Fairly impressed because I was thinking, I think I, I was expecting that, uh, given all the rumors and stuff, which I couldn't substantiate at the time. Later on, that might changed a little bit, but I, I was thinking that he was gonna be like, oh, he was just this person that was
getting[00:40:00]
to run and paid to run by AIPAC or something.
But he talked about housing and poverty passionately. Now, I don't know, it may have been a. Act, but it was a lot more passionately than other politicians, um, and here talk about. And so that impressed me. Uh, and at the time, like, you know, I couldn't find any real solid connections with him AIPAC. after that meeting, uh, you know, I got more contact.
From a few people that said, no, I heard him say this and heard him say that, and then they found a unlisted that's not in his, um Oh yeah, yeah. Website's, navigation. It's called Israel policy. That was pretty much, did not acknowledge. massacres and, and, uh, human rights violations and genocide going on.
Mm-hmm. Like the bog standard. Yeah. It was like, I was like, damn, man. So you basically had like a [00:41:00] secret OnlyFans pay for on your, on your campaign. crazy. only, only certain donors get to see is premium content over here. I'm like, come on. On.
So I had to like yes... I'm gonna say it now. Uh, I mean, unless he goes and repudiates the
stuff that, uh, that he said on, on his campaign, unless he takes that down and repudiates it, he will not be getting my vote.
Michael Zarick: Very,
Wildstyle Paschall: that's good to know
Michael Zarick: And
for people out there that think on it.
Wildstyle Paschall: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Yeah. do
Wildstyle Paschall: do, do your and, and, I, I, I'm gonna say, please, I don't know. I pray to God that, uh, I'm agnostic, but I pray to God that we are not having to talk about. over. I hope it's done. Uh, you know, and it's stopped by the end.
But do your research and ask him direct questions [00:42:00] and go look at that page to too see what he said.
Michael Zarick: Definitely
'Cause in, in a lot of ways, unfortunately, in the system we're in, like politicians
and policies are the way out of our whatever situation we're in. Uh, it is, they hold the bag, man, and you should be interested in that in a lot of ways, or at least involved in the conversation.
great. Let me, why'd you start the black briefing? Not you, but like with Sam and Greg.
Wildstyle Paschall: So Samantha started it because she wanted to get people. About voting. And one of the things she noticed, which I, we all agreed with is that, and it's not the voters' fault or the, or really the non voter's fault, is that we know next to nothing about our local local level.
We, we got a 24 hour news cycle about about the president, some of the congressmen, not even all of them, some of the congressmen. People. Yeah, not even all of them. Uh, a bit about the Supreme Court. [00:43:00] You have a little bit more about the governor, but you don't have anything about the state legislature. Like you dunno what any of these people are doing.
at the city level, you don't know anything except for the Mayor's sex Scandals um,
Michael Zarick: Well that's the, that's interesting that you say that. 'cause my city counselor name is Brienne Delaney.
Wildstyle Paschall: Okay. Uh,
Michael Zarick: District 2, she replaced a
Wildstyle Paschall: very
Michael Zarick: bad city counselor. Okay. I, I've heard that. Uh, uh, uh, Monroe Gray, I have tried to look into what she is a counselor has done. I'm interested. Um, and there's like no information.
I mean, I could go search through a bunch of court documents.
Wildstyle Paschall: I don't know if you can.
Michael Zarick: Um, or like, or like, I don't, I don't know really. Okay. Well then I've also reached out to her through email, said, Hey, can I, I'm like, I'm a constituent. Can I get a, a meeting?
Uh gotten no response yet. It's been like a week.
Uh, so we'll see. But that type of thing
is what I'm really interested in, like what you're doing. I, I think this is what people are really wanting right now is. You know, I [00:44:00] always say like, every celebrity has a podcast. You know, everyone knows the national big news, but the stuff that's important and impacts you the most is the stuff that is five miles down the street, and you don't hear about it. About it
Wildstyle Paschall: I, I mean, I'll give you an example. Usually, I mean, before Trump's second term, usually stuff that the federal government did was a lot more insidious. Uh, it took a lot longer to affect you. Like you, you you weren't gonna have government agents on your, your ass immediately. Now you do. But,
before, but you know, for all intent. Intents, like, you know, I was in the middle of a shootout on the way here, not making that up. It would be the mayor and the police chief, the local mayor and your local police chief that decides whether when somebody shoots at the, at the police, whether they get to go, the police get to go, just shoot up the block, which [00:45:00] happens.
Mm-hmm. happened to me and that's why I'm here with the podcast.
So there like, there are a lot of stuff that. We think, oh, oh, it's Trump and this and that. Yeah, plenty of it is now, but a lot of it starts with your, your local elected officials that they control, the prosecutor's office, the, police, your property taxes. How many millions of dollars are going to a, a development or developer that's gonna raise your property taxes in five to 10 years,
why your community, why you don't have affordable housing. All that stuff is.
very local, very very local. And your schools? I'm not a parent. Um, but I was involved in a lot of the school board stuff because parents asked me to get involved, and that's a very low relationship.
It's still ongoing. It's still ongoing. be going into next year. Guarantee it.
So the goal of the Black Review is just to. Informed. I, I ran a voting location. Like I, I was the person that [00:46:00] had to, we had the clerk and the petition, but I was the one, I had to go take the ballots down to the election But I would sit there all day, you know, for years for. You know, leading up to me actually running the facility and
people would
be like, who are these people on, on primary day? Like when it's all like they're most, I would say like two people in my neighborhood got got a republic. A ballot in our primary.
So they, they would be like, who are these people? And then we have, uh, our friendly Marion County Democratic Party. They would have out these little flyers and say, these are the Democrats. And then people would be like, okay, how do I vote for the Democrats? I'm like,
have a democrat ballot ballot you need to pick 22. And it would be like a whole bunch of purpose. Intentional, confusion on like, well, this ballot says these are the Democrats. So the other people must be Republicans? No, that's not, it's like leaving names out. Yeah, no, it would have, it would have the names they want you to vote [00:47:00] for only. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a primary
and so that most of the people were, had all these names and they're like, oh, these must be the only Democrats, you know?
They're all Democrats. Yeah. Yeah. And
Michael Zarick: Yeah
Wildstyle Paschall: so they would, they would start asking questions like, do you know this person? No. And I would look, try to look them up on my phone. I couldn't tell you who they were. I couldn't tell you what they were gonna do, they had ever said. I mean, unless it was like a news story about something bad.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. It's so, it's so difficult. I, I've even noticed that just doing this podcast, how little information there is just about like community people. That are doing good work. Um, not to say that not all, I mean, most of the politicians are not doing that great of work,
Wildstyle Paschall: but Right. Um, but the people who are out
Michael Zarick: here genuinely doing good, like important work, there's not enough information about them either.
And like, you don't even know. And that's sort of the reason.
reason for this is like to highlight people like yourself people like the other guests who are out here doing community focused work [00:48:00] and doing what it takes to, to make Indianapolis better. Um,
but yeah, that's cool. Also, tell, uh, tell Greg to settle down, man.
Greg.
Wildstyle Paschall: Greg is gonna, Greg, I, I, he, he brings a very unique perspective, so I'm always amazed at how much we disagree on and. Somehow we can, he can, end up doing different math and then still end up with the same conclusion on so much stuff, even though we disagree on how we got to that conclusion is amazing.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. the, I just thought the most recent episode with him, he, he was going wild. Yeah. Uh, episode seven. So if you, listen to this later on, but, um, and then also like your direct interview with. Uh, Ali Brown. Ali.
Is it Ali Yep.
Ali Brown. Yep.
Wildstyle Paschall: Ali Brown.
Michael Zarick: Like that type of stuff. You don't hear, you see clips from, the sessions or whatever, but you never, they don't really go on the news at all.
Yeah. That very rarely. [00:49:00] Um,
Okay And
like the only one that gets coverage is Jesse Brown, and oftentimes that's negative from framing of our local news. despite him. You know, coming from a good place many times.
Wildstyle Paschall: Well, they, they, they tried. They, they tried. I think, I think a lot of the press is figuring out, like, they're good.
They're, they're beginning to see who's really good aggressor here. Mm-hmm.
Uh, you know, because Jesse is like, he's the one listening to his people. And the reason, the whole reason he got booted was because he was doing too much listening and not enough orders
Yeah. From other people.
Michael Zarick: How dare he?
Wildstyle Paschall: Yeah. Um, how dare he work for the people?
Michael Zarick: But, uh, the, the interview with Ali Brown was like, really? I'm gonna say interesting.
Wildstyle Paschall: It it was I i, we were, we were surprised. And, you know, anybody that watched it, I, I always say like, we asked very professional questions and we didn't, we didn't try to push it in any type of other directions.
Yeah, I didn't think you did either.
Michael Zarick: I thought your, your questions were very cut and dry. Um, it was just [00:50:00] just, but it was also just from like an overall standpoint, like really good to hear from somebody
Yeah, it is. It's who's doing stuff um. So, yeah, I just, I'll definitely keep listening I'll keep tuning in.
great
There anything else you wanna talk about? Nah, that's a hundred things I could talk about. No, I mean, I, I got time. I mean, okay i'm good.
I'm sure this won't be the last time we talk. Um, hopefully not. Hopefully not.
hope I
I appreciate
your time. Wildstyle. For coming on. Where can we find you?,
Wildstyle Paschall: Wildstyle Paschall on Facebook, you type that in. You'll probably be able to find most of it because you, I got show notes. Yeah. My Linktree comes up.
You'll see it. You don't want
Michael Zarick: the, the wildstyle pro Produ produce produ, the producer everywhere.
Wildstyle Paschall: Uh, well, so I really wanted to be Mr. Wildstyle, but then like, as I. Lost accounts or new stuff came up or you, when I made my threads, it automatically [00:51:00] picked my Instagram name. It is a big mess. So what, that's what
Michael Zarick: the link tree's for.
Yeah. Yeah.
Wildstyle Paschall: Like I wasn't intentional about this 'cause I didn't expect anybody would care to be following me on any, all these platforms at the time.
Mm-hmm
So it's, it's crazy how things change.,
Michael Zarick: I'm also gonna give you another shout out. Out
I've mentioned it before, but in politics, policy news, those things, especially from the perspective of non-corporate media, who's who my wife works for, um, but she does great work too.
Um, but if you're interested from Wildstyle, Greg, and
does
go by Sam or Samantha? Sam, both. Okay. check out the Black Briefing. It's a great show. Yeah. Um, I've started listening and I, I've learned from it and also like, hear a perspective that I often don't get to hear. Um, that's
that's it.
Wildstyle Paschall: And we do our homework.
Like, you know, it's not, it's not just a bunch of Yeah. You're not winging it. Yeah, we're not winging it. Like if we're talking about something, there's at [00:52:00] least some, uh, Sam attaches the, the news articles and links to everything. We're talking about. So even if don't agree with what we're saying, here's article. Do your own interpretation. Totally.
Michael Zarick: Yeah Yeah
Alright, well this has been Third Space Indy. Thank you so much for listening. You can find me at Third Space Indy on instagram.com. You can also, or Instagram Third Space Indy at Instagram. I don't know. Saying you can go to thirdspaceindy.com for show notes, blog, sign up for my newsletter, everything under the sun.
The intro music is done by local artist Jennasen. With your permission, uh, thank you so much, as always and
as I always say, hope to share the next episode with you. Thank you Wildstyle for coming on. Thanks for having me. Hit me with a high five.
I I know, I know.
[00:53:00]