Season 1 Ep.2 - Mark Latta
In my opinion, we are at a stage in our development, both as a city and as a nation, where we need a great deal of vision to overcome the hurdles we are currently facing. This is why I appreciated my discussion with Mark Latta. His current life’s work is coping with that fact. He is deeply concerned with the path we take to the future and making an end goal for us to work towards, whatever that end goal is.
I had a delightful conversation with him a couple of months ago concerning his work, his vision of the future, and where we can challenge ourselves more deeply here in Indianapolis.
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Production learnings
Story Time
Episode Summary
Episode Transcript
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One of the biggest learnings I’ve made over the past couple of months is so simple that it almost feels foolish to write it out, but it’s also at the core of this podcast: Everyone knows somebody.
In late January, after being in the early stages of job searching, I began to think about alternate paths. My Aunt Sharon used to tell me I’d make a great politician after she asked me who my favorite aunt or uncle was. My answer, “the one I’m talking to.” Because of this, I’ve always had it in the back of my mind that this would be true, and when I was in the early throes of unemployment, this thought came back.
So I began looking into local politicians…
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Important Links and Mentions
Spades Park
Production learnings from this episode
As I said in the previous episode’s show notes, I began filming the podcast starting here. The video is rough, but it’s there! I think it’s fun to watch back on the way I look at the people I’m interviewing because I feel like I’m showing a genuine interest in the moment (I hope).
I also noted how blown out the video looked here, something I thought I internalized, but I won’t go on to solve for a bit. Lighting is really important for video to look good, and I know this, I just don’t have the eye for it just yet.
This episode also solidified the idea that I will be a mobile man, going wherever the podcast guest is most comfortable. In this case, Mark was kind enough to host me in his home.
Lastly, one thing I had not considered but that I appreciate is that politics are unavoidable when talking about community. I did not set out to make a political podcast (and still don’t think that’s the purpose), but it will come up as people discuss how they build and maintain their neighborhoods or the hurdles they face while doing so. Politics pervades life.
But how did I end up welcome in a stranger’s house?
Socialist is a dirty word
Oddly, one of the fastest ways to learn more about a city you move to is to follow random local people on Twitter or other social media platforms and see what they’re saying. I don’t remember exactly how I came across him for the first time, but I do remember how I became interested in being friends with Jesse Brown.
If you’re local to Indianapolis and you don’t know this name, you certainly have heard of the city-county councilor who was ousted. When I heard about this, I knew he was someone worth meeting - maybe the opposite reaction you should have when you hear about someone like this. Jesse is a well-known active Twitter user who is regularly caught replying to certain local and state figures with whom he disagrees. He is also an out-and-about local Socialist politician — a scary word for the average American.
Jesse is also deeply popular in his district. All this, combined with a passing interest in becoming a politician, led to a Zoom call and coffee. During our coffee chat, I witnessed something. Jesse Brown knows a lot of people.
Near East Side connections
This issue is much less prominent than it was in the beginning, but when Third Space Indy was just a blooming idea, I needed the names of people to talk to. Everybody knows somebody, and Jesse Brown knows a lot of somebodies. So I reached out, told him my idea for the pod, and asked him if he knew people who were working to build the community up. He gave me Mark’s name.
I looked him up, learned a bit about him, and decided he was a perfect guest. I then reached out via email, and a couple of days later, he replied, inviting me to his home for the interview. I later asked him why he would let me, a total stranger, come to his house. He said, “Jesse Brown gave you his seal of approval.” I told him that Jesse and I had only met once, and he seemed impressed that I had made such an impression in a short amount of time.
I’m really thankful to Jesse for connecting me with Mark and to Mark himself for such a thoughtful conversation. Looking forward to crossing paths with both of them further in the future.
Episode Summary
Imagining Better Futures: A Conversation with Mark Latta
Mark Latta, a community-focused educator and founder of City Rising, discusses the long-term impacts of historical decisions, the concept of futurity, and his efforts to encourage future-oriented thinking. He shares his journey from teaching at a juvenile correctional facility to community engagement at Marian University, emphasizing the importance of allowing individuals to envision their own futures. Mark talks about the unique character of the Near East Side of Indianapolis, the challenges posed by redlining, the potential for harm reduction, and the importance of local community efforts in shaping a better future.
00:00 Introduction to Mark Latta and City Rising
01:18 Mark's Journey in Education and Community Engagement
02:58 Challenges and Realizations in Higher Education
06:12 Imagining a Better Future
09:24 The Impact of Redlining and Community Disparities
11:46 Personal Reflections and Community Building
21:27 Living in Indianapolis and Building Community
28:57 Questioning Life in Indianapolis
29:49 The History and Transformation of Windsor Park
32:12 Community Spirit and Neighborhood Dynamics
34:37 Challenges and Changes in Indianapolis
35:57 Reflections on Leadership and City Development
39:56 Future Thinking and Community Spaces
43:28 Unique Flavor of Indianapolis
47:03 Final Thoughts and Next Steps
Transcript
Episode 2: Mark Latta
[00:00:00] Mark Latta: a lot of the issues that we are grappling with and continue to grapple with are because of the choices that were made 80, a hundred, 200 years ago, and at one point, we are the fleeting thought of someone's past notion of, of the future, And that's gonna be true for us. someone is gonna grapple with actions or inactions that we take today, and that will become the reality for them for the next 80 to a hundred to 200 years.
So my name is Mark Latta and I am a resident of the Near East Side in Indianapolis. I own and operate and run.
I'm not sure which word I wanted to go with there, but you have all three of 'em. A social impact studio called City Rising and recently just started a podcast called Tomorrow. Can't Wait.
[00:00:56] Michael Zarick: from what I've seen about you, you are a very, community, but specifically future community focused person.
So could you tell me about what you're doing at, at City Rising and sort of how that plays into that idea of like future thinking?
[00:01:12] Mark Latta: Yeah. How much of a story do you want? Oh, I got all day. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So today I have all day. So I think that the best way to kind of convey that is to, to start with the trip I'm in relaying a little bit, but, so I was in higher ed for almost 20 years, almost, well probably a little over two decades, and actually started teaching at Pendleton Juvenile Correctional Facility.
And that was my first experience with teaching. It was my first experience with understanding or beginning to understand kind of the carceral state of the United States and how it begins at an early age. But it also really impressed upon me the, the, the necessity for people to be able to kind of write about their dreams and their desires and their aspirations, right.
To like place themselves in the future based on what they had hoped would, would come true. And saw the, saw the value and power of, of doing that with, with a, with a number of remarkable young men who have really never been asked like what they wanted to do or to be in five years. Mm-hmm. Right?
Like, for a lot of them, like their future was written for them and it was just kind of something they, they had to come to accept. And there was a lot of tension between that being handed a future by an administrative state or by parents who may struggle to care for you, or parents who may not seem to care for you or by other people in your life that have let you down.
Versus being able to be encouraged to write your own future. Right? And so I saw the damage that a neglected future for children would hand children. And so that was, that was, I think the start of why I became a community engaged or community focused educator. And then when I went to, from that position to position I held at Marian University, I was assistant professor of English, and then later I moved up into directing their community engaged learning program.
So kind of moved into more administrative capacities. My, my focus was always on, Hey, you know, one of the ways that we can really demonstrate the power of education is to align learning objectives with the needs of communities and where they are today. And, and look at how we can all kind of.
Ask ourselves what could be, what could be improved. And so that's what I had hoped to be doing. And I remember at one class it was called Urban Issues Class. It was the first year seminar class. , I would work with, I don't know, about somewhere between 20 to 30 first year students, you know, they've this first time being away from home for many of 'em, you know, they're, they're coming from more rural counties and, and, and Indy is a big city.
Mm-hmm. You know, they're kind of definitely, you know, feeling their way through. Right. And so this urban issues class, we dealt with a host of things that people who don't live in a city hear about a city, right? So like homelessness and poverty and all these negative things. And what, what we're really trying to do is to kind of peel back the veneer and ask ourselves, okay, what's actually going on here?
How much of this is actually hype and negative stereotyping? If so, like who does that negative stereotyping, you know, who do those deficit narratives serve? And, you know, how am I complicit in this? And we're just trying to get a better sense of kind of our relationship in an urban environment. And at the end of this class, the, the, the big capstone project, right, is to kind of come up with a research question.
It's not a, it's not a project per se. You're not gonna research this question, you're not gonna move forward, but you're gonna try to find a research question that these students could kind of carry with them into their majors, right? To kind of be thinking about something that they how they could apply their education, their path to some type of greater impact.
And, and so students would, they would talk about, you know, the necessity of education and literacy education. Remember one student was talking about her focus was that semester she really wanted to learn more about the relationship between child homelessness. Or housing insecurity and, and education or, you know, the, the, the difficulty in achieving an education.
So I asked her at the end of her presentation, it was a good presentation. I asked her at, in the presentation, I said, do you know, could you imagine a world where child homelessness or housing insecurity wasn't an issue? She thought for a second she said, no, I can't. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's interesting. And so the next, next student got up and was, you know, talking about poverty rates and in the neighborhoods surrounding Maryland University, where the average household income, I think is at the time it was like $28,000 and, you know, which is pretty low, right?
Mm-hmm. And this student wanted to research like the cause of that, right? And you know, that, that's a big ask. You know, at the, at the start of your first year of. Of college to say it, this is what I wanna focus on. Well, people spend their lives trying to figure that out, right? I'm still there. Yeah.
Right. So it's like, it's a big ask. But, but then I would ask them, you know, could you imagine a world where poverty wasn't a significant issue? And they said no. And so the point of the story is that I left that class thinking, you know, I would ask student after student, could you imagine a world in which this one thing, this massively complex, big thing that impacts millions of people in our country across the globe?
Could you imagine a world where that's no longer an issue? And nobody could. And I thought, I don't know what I'm doing here. Like, I, I don't, I don't understand my, I don't understand the purpose of what I'm supposed to be doing. If everyone could succeed in this environment and not yet wants be required to really struggle to imagine a place that is radically different than the world we live in.
So to me, like that's, that's what I've been interested in, like that terrain of the future. How do we, how do we get to a place where we, we understand that a lot of these hopes are aspirational, right? Are we ever going to eliminate poverty? Probably not. But can we radically minimize it? Yes. Like that is possible, right?
Are we ever going to eradicate hunger in every person across the globe? Probably not. But we could radically minimize it, you know? So it's a, it is a shift between harm elimination and harm reduction. But what I found as an educator is I wasn't really preparing students to be able to kind of take on this harm reduction perspective.
Mm-hmm. And so that's, that's what I wanted to focus on. And like, we need to, we need to think of ways where we can imagine futures. That are on one hand radically different and more just, and more equitable, on the other hand, are not outlandish and don't feel outlandish, feel possible.
[00:08:06] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. That's very nice.
There's a quote I really love, it's a um, the best time to plant a tree is five years ago. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But the next best time is right now, which actually plays into the Yeah, yeah, yeah. The quote I have written down for you, which is, we are living in a future imagined by people in the past. Their actions, whether a few days or centuries ago shaped the world we experienced today, which sort of is the, yeah.
I think culmination of what you just talked about in a lot of ways, it's how do we even get to the place we want to be without a vision of what that place is, sort of, is that right?
[00:08:44] Mark Latta: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that's absolutely right and I think what is critically important for us currently to understand is.
You know, a lot of the issues that we are grappling with and continue to grapple with are because of the choices that were made 80, a hundred, 200 years ago, right? And, and at one point, like we are the fleeting thought of someone's past notion of, of the future, right? And that's gonna be true for us. So someone is gonna grapple with the actions or inactions that we take today, and that will become the reality for them for the next 80 to a hundred to 200 years.
You know, think of redlining, right? Mm-hmm. Redlining is probably the most intrusive and impactful policy that has shaped individuals and communities in Indianapolis for the past 150 years.
[00:09:41] Michael Zarick: Yeah, definitely. I would say that redlining is something you hear about in every city, but here specifically, I feel like.
I drive down College mm-hmm. To get here. And when you're driving down College, you hit certain roads. I don't know the specific roads, but there's like clear delineation. Yeah. Between neighborhoods. It's, it's heavier than I've seen. I grew up in Louisville. Okay. And Louisville's also got pretty bad red landing issues, but here it's like really stark.
It's, it is. You just go across the street literally, and it looks totally different. Yeah.
[00:10:08] Mark Latta: It's block by block. Mm-hmm. Right. But you're absolutely right. Like you, the, those visual cues you see them, you can, you can, as you pass through them, you begin to feel them. And you know, that feeling carries a weight.
Imagine living in that space, always having that feeling. Mm-hmm. But a number of the issues, and, and one of the issues that, that I was, that I remain very concerned with is the life expectancy disparity between folks who live in historically red line areas and folks who don't. Right. There's about an average, I wanna say anywhere from 17 to 18 years.
Difference between the average life expectancy, that's almost two decades. Mm-hmm. Right? Like that is entirely manmade. Yeah. That difference is entirely created by us. It was cast in motion hundreds of years ago. It was encoded and, and you know, the different laws and policies through redlining. And here we are today, still grappling with it.
What are we gonna continue to do? And so I think that's, that's a really important question. And that to me, that, that was the question as an educator, like, this is the most important thing that I can be doing, and this is the most important thing that educational systems could be doing as well. Mm-hmm. Now that doesn't mean that you don't prepare folks for, you know, becoming good critical thinkers, which, you know, arguably we aren't doing very well at.
Or that you prepare folks, you know, to, to have gainful employment and have financial freedom again, which we aren't arguably doing very well at. So, I. You know, that was also part of it was like, we aren't really doing as far as education. If you look at a lot of our systems, we aren't doing anything very well.
So why not reimagine all of them and, and begin to kind of think anew about it.
[00:11:45] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:45] Mark Latta: So what
[00:11:46] Michael Zarick: what specific impacts do you feel like you have had over your working life? Are there specific outcomes that you have seen or like specific, I guess maybe tangible ideas?
[00:11:58] Mark Latta: I think the most that's a, that's a really difficult question.
Mm-hmm. The most definitely a difficult question. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:03] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I feel like it's, it's hard to, yeah. Whatever. We as individuals if you think about legacy, it's nearly impossible to perceive your legacy in the moment. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:14] Mark Latta: So I wanna push back on that. Oh, yeah. Because I don't think this is about legacy.
Oh yeah. I think, I think legacy is tricky, but legacy is, I, I, I don't want to, I don't wanna say that. I'm trying to hype you up. Oh, well I appreciate that, but I appreciate that, but I don't. To me, legacy has a, has a tinge of ego. Mm-hmm. Right. And that makes me a little uneasy and a little nervous. Because this is not about an individual's ego or like a family name.
I appreciate that. Right. I think this is about really being able to fully live in a moment where I've structured my life in such a way that I can, I can do this. Right. I don't think everybody has that same privilege. I think it's taken deliberate work and sometimes many accidents to get here.
Right. So it's not so much about legacy as it is just about like, this, for me, this is how I want to live my life. And this is not me saying this is, I, I think everyone should do this. This is just me saying, you know, here's an opportunity. And that was the reason why I started City Rising. 'cause I couldn't, couldn't do that anymore.
And, and higher ed. Higher ed. And I knew that I was on a collision course. Right. For probably the past seven to probably the past seven years of my professional career, I was on a collision course knowing that I was eventually going to go further than what the limitations of higher ed would allow.
Mm-hmm. So I don't think higher ed's the answer. Right. I think there's some, there's some good people involved in that, but I think we need new models. I think we need new approaches. And so, that's what led me to kind of say, this is what I wanna try. Now the question of like what are some impacts?
Jesus. I don't know. Like, probably none of them. Right. Because this is on one hand, and this is like a hundred year work. This is culture work. Yes. You're trying, you're trying to change the trajectory. Right. And you're not really sure where it's gonna land. Mm-hmm. And so it's rife with, with. You know, mishaps and unintended consequences.
Mm-hmm.
[00:14:10] Michael Zarick: It's sort of like you're a
[00:14:10] Mark Latta: giant
[00:14:11] Michael Zarick: glacier and like you're trying to Yeah. Nudge the glacier to go like a few inches to the left or right. Yeah. Is that,
[00:14:17] Mark Latta: yeah. And things could go horribly wrong and I'm sure that there are people who thought the same thing 200 years ago and they're like, oh, wow, we really made a mistake.
On the other hand, that's also kind of a cop out, right? It's like, well, I don't need to worry about immediate impact because it's, you know, it's way in the future. But I think we do need to worry about immediate impact. And so I think what signs I see, you know, when someone comes up to me years later and like, Hey, you know, that one thing that you talked about that one day in class or that workshop that you led, like that really kind of changed my thinking.
[00:14:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. To be able to trace those like little ripples, I think is really impactful. And I would argue that's probably true for a lot of folks, but we just don't build space in our lives in our daily activities to really measure those ripples. Definitely.
Do you, do you feel like you a lot of your sort of thinking is I've had this sort of mental shift in the past year from like deep negativity.
Are, are you, would you say you're moving to a, a deep level of optimism instead? Because I feel like that is sort of what you're trying to get at is like instead of failing to perceive what could be, you are working towards feeling optimistic for what could be. Or is that maybe a misunderstanding of your, your
[00:15:34] Mark Latta: I don't, I don't know that I, I, so I think that's a good question and I think that is a question I've received before and I think that, I've thought about why I keep getting that question.
And I think from the outside it looks as if this is an act of optimism. I think if you were to ask my close friends and my wife, I don't know that they would agree with that. Right. Um,
[00:15:57] Michael Zarick: Your wife's like, he's a grumbling old man or something.
[00:16:00] Mark Latta: Well, I have spent as, as my wife would probably say, I have spent an unhelpful amount of time contemplating the future of society under the current climate models.
Right. And it doesn't look good. You mean literal climate? Like the literal Yeah. What, yeah. Literal. Yeah. So before we even get to the political climate that we're all in. Okay. Right. Like, let's talk about the fundamentals of the world we're living in. We have made a planet that is in going, that is grown increasingly inhospitable to human life.
As we saw this week, as we saw this week. I worry about that quite a bit, particularly as a father. Particularly as someone who is concerned with a wellbeing of my community. So I don't, I don't approach this as magical thinking, a sense of optimism. Like if we just try hard enough, things will work out.
I don't know that that's true, but I also don't know what else we could do.
Hmm.
Right. So, I don't know that this is optimism for me. I think this is me just rolling up my sleeves and saying, there's, there's work to be done and this is the work to do, and that's about all I can do.
[00:17:11] Michael Zarick: Got it. So what do you, what's top of mind right now?
What are you thinking about actively in this moment?
[00:17:18] Mark Latta: In this moment? As far as climate or like anything?
[00:17:23] Michael Zarick: Anything and everything.
[00:17:24] Mark Latta: I think
[00:17:24] Michael Zarick: the thing, oh yeah. Anything and everything. Yeah. Period. Okay.
[00:17:28] Mark Latta: Um,
I, I'm deeply concerned with climate refugees. I think we're already seeing. Evidence of climate refugees becoming more of a thing.
And no one is tracking this internally. No one is tracking internal climate, refugee movements currently. I also don't think, and I, I think that the know the events of the past five years will bear this out, that we are just not equipped as a civilization to really do the hard work of empathy and care that's going to be required.
Right? So I think that the people who are traditional losers and a win-lose situation, IE those people who've been marginalized you know, have been, you know, othered those people who have been targeted for dispossession black, brown, poor folks, indigenous folks they are going to have untold amounts of suffering coming toward them.
We don't have a frame of reference for it. So I think that. That's on my mind. And that drives a lot of what I do and thinking to myself like, what, what can I do right? To build, to try to create spaces where that harm can be minimized? And what does, what does that minimization of harm look like? Mm-hmm.
I like that. Or, I mean, I don't like that. Yeah. That's a difficult yeah. Yeah. But we're in the sort of same space of thinking where it's like, not necessarily good or bad, it's just like, what, what needs to be done to sort of, yeah.
Yeah. And I think, I think, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to discount anyone's reaction to this, right.
And, but for me, I don't think it's helpful to talk about good or bad to put values associated with this. Instead, I think this is something that's happening and we either try to find a way to minimize harm, and if possible, thrive. Or we don't.
[00:19:23] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:24] Mark Latta: And, and that's, that's the choice. We don't have the luxury of arguing good, bad, whatever else.
Mm-hmm.
[00:19:32] Michael Zarick: Especially with a expedited timeline. I think
[00:19:35] Mark Latta: expedited timeline that is accelerating every day. Mm-hmm. Right. a lot of people I, I talk with on a regular basis, you know, especially they're involved in nonprofit or they're involved in community based work, and on one hand we have historical models to how to make a way of no way, right?
Like, there's always been resistance since the, you know, split second after the first moment of oppression. There's always been that, there have always been people who are finding a way to, to, to make a way outta no way. We have those models. We need to learn about those historical models, but also understand that there needs to be like a contemporary refreshing.
Of those models. So that's the moment we're in. But it's going to be probably full of upheaval. It's probably going to shock a lot of people. But I know this, I'm gonna do a 180. I don't want to like be, become a prepper or a, you know, someone who's just always predicting doom because it's just a thing, you know, if you, if you're always predicting pain and suffering, you're probably going to be right.
Mm-hmm. Right? Because that's just the nature of life. But I don't think it's hopeless. I think there are moments of joy. I think that there are moments where we're going to be able to reclaim our humanity, our sense of, of humanity. But yeah, I'm not sure where I was going with that, but
[00:20:50] Michael Zarick: there we are.
No, I, that's perfect. So I feel like you are a very world minded person. Okay. What does that mean to you? Well, you are taking at least you can tell me if I'm right or wrong, but you're taking local issues and sort of, applying them to a world scale. So like redlining the way we Okay. Yeah.
Mistreat certain groups of people or, you know, but not necessarily just in Indianapolis, but you know, across, you just look at certain issues and then you say, here is what I perceive to be true. Or what is true in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. But to sort of recenter ourselves in Indianapolis specifically.
Sure. Yeah. first of all, why are you here? You moved from Boulder or is that not true? Am I making that up? No, no, you made that up. Okay. I did you not, did you work at a church in Boulder?
[00:21:34] Mark Latta: I, I was a, a theologian of residence. Okay. At the Boulder United Methodist Church. Okay. But that was a temporary thing.
[00:21:42] Michael Zarick: Okay. Yeah. See I just, I just, you know, when you Google people, all sorts of things come up.
[00:21:46] Mark Latta: my wife and I grew up outside of Kokomo, which is about 45 minutes. I don't know how familiar you are with Okay. How about, I'm pretty Okay. Okay. We actually grew up outside of Russiaville.
We moved to Kokomo and we started dating. The reason we moved to Indianapolis, one is we always wanted to get outta Kokomo. I think there's this phenomenon and, and, and Indiana, I think it's true of all Midwestern states where like the folks who are gonna really remake the big city are the ones fleeing the small towns in cornfields because, you know, they've had, they've had this wide empty space to dream and to imagine, and so they're, they're trying to find ways to kind of make that come true.
But we moved to Indianapolis largely, well, not largely, primarily for, so my wife could finish her degree in American Sign Language Interpreting at Vincennes University, which at the time was they had a program at the, in Indiana deaf school. So we moved here. She did that. We were, we were broke as shit, right?
Like we, we had I think a table and a couple camp share folding camp chairs in a cooler. And we moved into our 600 square foot apartment on the, i I wanna say the third or fourth floor at the Admiral Building, which is the 30th and Meridian for us. Like, this was like, whoa, we're in a city now. I mean, this felt like a city.
And what, what year? This was, oh God. I'm, I'm not, oh, no. What have I done? What happened? This was what, 2002? 2003.
Okay. So like 10 years ago, but 20 years ago. Yeah, 20 years ago. Yeah. But it feels like 10 years ago it's still, it's like, oh, that's the only 10. Oh, no, actually that's
25 years ago. Yeah.
And, and at the time. You know, we didn't, we didn't really have any money. And when we first moved in we, we ended up grabbing a, a NUVO News Weekly, which if you're of a certain age, you remember that those actually used to be printed. And we were just looking for something to do and we found this vo they had a calendar listing and there was this thing called the Feast of Lanterns that was happening.
And so we went to this Feast of Lanterns, which turned out to be at Spades Park, right? Which is a park right on the street from our house. And it was, it was like this beautiful community event, like where, you know, illuminated lanterns were, you know, strung across the trees and a bunch of people were having a good time.
And it was just, it was free, right? Mm-hmm. It was completely free for us to go, which is ideal. Yes. Which really, really fit our budget. And, and that, that became like, you know, that became, for us, it was like a moment of, oh, we. , We made a good decision, right? We're like, we're making the right move, because this felt good.
The reason I mentioned that story is because when we were looking for houses to purchase, you know, again, broke we came across this house that we're currently sitting in and realized like, oh wait, this is just right on the street from that lantern festival thing that we went to.
[00:24:39] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:39] Mark Latta: And we realized like we kind of knew something about this place.
We had an emotional attachment to it. And that, and because a neighbor at the time, there was a, a neighbor, his name was Ben. He came, he lived across the street at the time. He came riding up on his bike as we were looking at the house and just started talking to us, chatting with us. That's why we moved here.
Things. Those two little things, those two things also because we could afford it, but, well, that, you know, that's a, that's always the kicker, isn't it? But
[00:25:04] Michael Zarick: it's, I, it's always um, I think impressive how I. Such small things can have such a weighty impact on you as a person.
[00:25:13] Mark Latta: Yeah. So it kind of goes back to that ripple thing, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, you don't know, I mean, it's good to be guided by theory and guided by knowledge, but I think end of the day it just comes down to being kind and not being an asshole. Mm-hmm. Because you don't know, like when, when you pull up and you see someone on the side of the street, like looking at a house and you start talking to them, does that set something new in motion for us?
It did. That was a different trajectory. We've been here since. Mm-hmm., We talk about moving away and all, all the time we talk about moving, it's like, well, , what would we be moving from and what would we be moving to?
[00:25:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:47] Mark Latta: Like, I, it's hard to imagine rebuilding this sense of community that we have.
And then our daughter is now a part of, right? Like she's nine years old. She can kind of run around the neighborhood with their friends and we know that there are tens of people, dozens. 20, 30, 40 people who are actively looking out for her. Mm-hmm. That says a lot about a community. And so, yeah, I mean, that's my, my understanding of what community is and what it could be and, and why it's important, really began that day.
And so I've been a student ever since.
[00:26:20] Michael Zarick: That's awesome. I always say that my perception of places is always based on who I know there. Mm-hmm. So for a long time, and it's still kind of am, I was like super against moving to Lexington, Kentucky, but I, in retrospect, the reason I felt that way is because everyone I knew from Lexington was a UK fan.
And I think that has sort of colored my perception of Lexington. I'm sure Lexington is great now. And now I feel the opposite about Ohio and the reason Ohio Columbus. And the reason is because everyone I know who lives in Columbus is either a family member or like a good friend. And I've never been to Columbus, Ohio, but my perception is positive just because of the people I know who live there.
Yeah. And that's very similar to like, oh, you had this really positive experience at the park, and then just the random guy riding his bike down the street who said hello. Yeah. Just, just draws you in, in a certain, in a certain way. Yeah.
[00:27:17] Mark Latta: Now I will say that that positivity didn't last long. Mm.
Because shortly after we moved in, we had a couple interactions with a few neighbors who are, you know, they, they came up and like just said, well, you're, you're yuppies, you're here to change the neighborhood, you know, what are you doing here? Did they know,
[00:27:35] Michael Zarick: did they know you were from Kokomo?
No. Oh, they, so they just assumed?
[00:27:38] Mark Latta: Yeah, they just assumed. But they were like, they, they were the, they were their OGs. Right. Like they were the old timers. Right. And, and, which is interesting now, 'cause I've been here long enough to kind of see the same thing. Like recurring again, that they were worried about.
It's like, okay, I totally, I I get it. I understand, but you had to calm
[00:27:56] Michael Zarick: your
[00:27:57] Mark Latta: Yeah. But that to me, that's a weird tension, right? Mm-hmm. Like to think like nobody owns this, nobody owns this sense of community, and yet you feel as if, well, I am a part of it, I do kind of, I wanna protect it. And, but there's, it's constantly changing.
Mm-hmm.
[00:28:11] Michael Zarick: You know? So it's always interesting to me. So what is this? I don't actually know. What is this neighborhood called?
[00:28:17] Mark Latta: So this is Windsor Park.
[00:28:18] Michael Zarick: Okay. Windsor Park. Mm-hmm. What is it about the community in Windsor Park that has kept you here for, I don't know when you bought your house, but let's assume 15 ish years?
It was about 22 years ago. Okay. 20 years ago. Yeah. Okay. So what is, what is keeping you here? Uh,
I, I, I
got hard questions.
[00:28:38] Mark Latta: Yeah. Fate. I don't know. No, I think, have you ever wanted to move? Yes, every time I leave Indianapolis this, I don't know, I don't know if this is, I don't know if this is something I should share or not, but I'll, but I'll, I'll share because I, I'm a big believer of just asking like, what if, even if those questions make you uncomfortable, I see.
You know, just to kind of see like, what are my parameters, what are things that I'm really interested in? So every time I leave Indianapolis, whether I'm flying out, flying back in, or driving back in, the question that I always have as I get closer to Indianapolis is, why do I live here?
[00:29:12] Michael Zarick: I think that's a healthy mentality though.
[00:29:13] Mark Latta: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. A lot of times when I say that, people are like, well, why? What's wrong?
[00:29:17] Michael Zarick: I think people, I mean, especially if they grew up here, people are afraid of change, just in general. Mm-hmm. But I've lived in a couple different places and every time I've lived. I mean, especially in America, in my opinion, especially in the Midwest, even the places in America are not that different, right?
So, right. The, the impact of moving away is not as heavy, it's just sort of the personal connections you've made. Right. That are the hardest change. But your life doesn't change that much. I agree. I agree. But
continue.
[00:29:48] Mark Latta: Yeah. So what, so I think one of the reasons, one of the things that has kept us here is that historically Windsor Park has kind of been the redheaded stepchild in a lot of ways of some of the, I guess the, the neighborhoods in the near East side that are closer to downtown, that have been gentrified and developed.
So we have Cottage Home, you have Woodruff Place, right. Windsor Park is across the street and for a long time. I mean the, the folks who lived in this, in this neighborhood historically were factory workers at what is now the CCIC building. Or they were like the, the laborers, they were the, the working class blue collar folks.
Right? And so I think because of that, a lot of the socioeconomics, social status that you get between different social hierarchies based on income has kind of just ingrained itself in the culture and lore and history of Windsor Park. And when we first moved in here, you know, half the homes were, were vacant, they were empty.
And the people that were here were either here because they were just full piss and vinegar and they were never gonna leave. Right? Fuck you, this is art. This is our neighborhood. We're gonna do what we want. Or they were folks that kind of stumbled in and were hoping to do something kind of on the down low.
And just was excited about the possibility of like a blank canvas, right? And so I think one of the reasons that we stay here is that we could, we could do whatever we wanted and we could kind of band together as neighbors and we would tell the city like, you're, you're not doing this. You're doing too slow, so we're gonna take it over, right?
We're gonna, we're gonna take this empty plot over. We're going to be the people that are kicking out folks who are stealing from us, and they're living in, you know, squatting a house on the street. And it, and it felt like for a long time it felt like we're living in almost like a wild west situation where, where we got the band together, you know, mutual aid.
But it was so much fun. It was a, it was a blast. , We would have street parties we'd close down the street. Sometimes we would have permission. Oftentimes we didn't. Who needs permission? Yeah. Who needs Exactly. It's like, who needs permission to do these things? I remember one time one of our neighbors you know, he built a potato gun, right?
Like at a p That's a classic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we, so we, we spent like Friday, like we spent a weekend just like in the street launching potatoes. The street that was largely abandoned. And so I think one of the things that, that kept us here is like, if you have an idea, then you could do it. You could act on it.
And that's not true for a lot of places. I live up in
[00:32:23] Michael Zarick: uh,
[00:32:23] Mark Latta: the Broad Ripple area in Warfleigh And I went to my neighborhood meeting and it, it's just like an annual neighborhood meeting and they have like, get togethers. But I, at that neighborhood meeting, I never got the sense that anyone there was like truly.
Friends, but I feel like just listening to you for this moment, I feel like you could say strongly that you're friends with some of the people you live near, right?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some of my best friends are folks that, that live around here now. I will say that times have changed. Mm-hmm. And we can no longer afford to probably buy a house here.
So I can't afford to buy a house anywhere, so. Well, that's probably true for us as well. So there, there are a lot of folks now who I don't know. And, you know, that's been a kind of a, a conflict as well, but at the same time, it's like, I don't, I don't need to know everyone. Like, that's pretty egotistical of someone to say, like, I wanna get to know you just simply because of your proximity to me.
Mm-hmm. I mean, I guess that makes sense. But do it because your paths are intersecting. Do it because you have similar interests. Do it because you're showing up in the same place. I like that. Don't do it because you simply, I wanna keep an eye on your house. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, that's, that's weird. Yeah. But it's easy to fall into that trap.
Of, of ownership of the community.
[00:33:35] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I think we feel I even, I have a you feel an obligation to feel that way because I think because of the sort of like, historical Americana, like suburban or cul-de-sac ideal of America. Yeah. But maybe that doesn't maybe in the modern sort of electronic age, you don't need that.
You know, we don't live near each other and I hope that we become friends. Yeah.
[00:33:57] Mark Latta: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, yeah, I think, I mean, the, the emphasis on proximity to become friends has become diminished a little bit, but I still think it's there. Mm-hmm. But yeah, no, I love this place. I mean, I love the, I love the fact that we have two active bus lines.
Mm-hmm. Right? I love the fact that I would take my daughter to preschool two or three times a week on the bus, and that she grew up knowing how to ride a bus. And that was a thing that just wasn't, you know, it wasn't out of the norm for her. She knows how to read the space and operate in the space. So that's a source of pride for me.
[00:34:33] Michael Zarick: So, uh, maybe zooming out a tiny bit from mm-hmm. Your specific neighborhood. How do you feel about Indianapolis? Do you feel like this is a good place? Do you feel like I think I know the immediate answer to this next question is maybe no, but I'll let you answer. How do you feel like the direction of the city is good?
Do you feel like how, how are things going
[00:34:53] Mark Latta: well? How are things going anywhere? Right. Yeah, that is true. I, I think, I think the, I think that we are headed into a situation in Indiana where the, The economy is largely dictated by one or two places in the state. Right. The population centers. Mm-hmm.
However, the political power is largely found outside of Indianapolis and larger, I would say the region, Fort Wayne, maybe Evansville. The political power is still held in rural spaces.
[00:35:30] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:31] Mark Latta: Where that's becoming tenuous and probably one of the reasons that I think things are going not so great is we now have a state government that has become increasingly brazen of exert it's will in kind of scolding and punishing folks in Indianapolis.
For no other reason than what it appears to be that we just, we vote to blue. Mm-hmm. Right. So that doesn't bode well for us. So I say that because I think that to navigate that effectively, we are going to need leadership at a local level, the likes of which we have yet to see. Mm-hmm. leadership here politically, with the exception of a few people Jesse Brown included, has been incredibly disappointing.
And I say that as someone who would probably be friends with a lot of the folks who are occupying these positions of leadership with IPS and the school levels with also local municipal levels there's a lack of imagination and a lack of charisma and a lack of courage there that is bitterly disappointing as someone who lives in Indianapolis.
[00:36:37] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:38] Mark Latta: And it's untenable and it's unexcusable. Mm-hmm. If they aren't willing to lead, they need to step out of the way. Mm-hmm. I think that's the reality. So I think that's one thing. I think the other thing that I'm concerned about is Indianapolis is geographically too large of a city. We simply do not have.
It is big. It is big. It is, it is large. It is sprawling. The, and it, there's just not enough money to pay for everything. Right? If we had more folks living and occupying in the same space, that would be one thing. But our infrastructure funding is not adequately situated to kind of take care of what we need to pay for.
Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. I mean, Unigov was a really bad idea in a lot of ways. How do you undo that? Can you undo that? What does that look like? I know that we don't have leadership and place now that are even willing to kind of entertain that idea. And there's no one who's willing to say, Hey, maybe if we were a smaller city, we would have a much better possibility of actually funding the things we need to fund.
Mm-hmm. So where is Indianapolis headed? I don't know, but I, I do know that it's not gonna be saved by it's elected officials. It's gonna be saved by the, the residents and the people who live here. Mm-hmm. Who care enough to do the things.
[00:37:55] Michael Zarick: And I think a lot of people here do care. Yeah. Everyone I talk to really likes it here.
And they, they want the, the city to thrive. They want the people or their surrounding environment to, to serve them. I appreciate you I guess bearing witness to all of that or, or speaking to it because I think it's powerful and when there's sort of that adversarial relationship between local officials and the state officials, you do need.
Them to be a little brazen, I think mm-hmm. In the way that Jesse Brown tries to be in a lot of ways.
[00:38:26] Mark Latta: Yeah. And I think, I think he gets a lot of flack from a lot of folks who are used to what they perceive to be the normal way of doing things. And I don't think anyone, and, and I, you know, I'm referencing some local columnists and some local politicians.
I mean, I'm not saying that everyone needs to behave like Jesse. Right. That's probably not, I don't think he would even argue for that. Right. I, I think I agree. Yeah. I um, Jesus, you gotta fight, you gotta do something different. Mm-hmm. Like, this is just this idea of being, being passive and just accepting everything that happens to you and, and hope for the best.
What is that? That, I mean, you could sell out everything and still maintain the status quo, but you're not gonna have anyone following you. You're not gonna, you're not gonna have, you know. The buy-in, no one's gonna want to be associated with you. That's not leadership. That's just, as and a bully.
So
[00:39:23] Michael Zarick: definitely. So I don't have much else to talk about specifically. I think you've sort of touched on everything I want. Is there anything that you wanna preach about or you're feeling in your heart or feeling about heart? I dunno. Anything. I feel like, I feel like I've been preaching quite a bit.
I you have opportunity. You have, but it's been very, it's, it's been powerful. I have gotten a lot from this conversation. I think you have I, your ideas about future minded thinking are, I think are very well founded in sound. I think that it is something we need to think on. But I didn't know if there was anything specifically you wanted to, like Oh.
Maybe you're thinking in the present
[00:39:56] Mark Latta: Well, so two things. One is I just wanna give a plug to where my thinking about the future came from, and it comes from this indigenous scholar named Goodyear Kapa. She is a scholar in Hawaii and her concept is futurity, which is, which is really thinking about the ways that people make knowledge about possible futures.
Mm-hmm. That's huge for me. And, and like I get excited about that 'cause like to think about like, oh, the future is not just one point. Right. It is a range of possibilities. So how do we make knowledge about working toward those different possibilities? I think if we could do that, that would be helpful.
Mm-hmm. Right. However, the other thing I wanted to say is you asked a question before you got here, like, and it was a good question and I thought about it, so I want to give you an answer. And the question was, where do people need to go? I'm paraphrasing here, like, where do people need to go to get the feel of this place?
Right. Something like that. And I think by this place you mean Windsor Park? Maybe the near East side. Mm-hmm. Which I think is a really good question. this idea of like, you have to be in a place to kind of get the feel for it. Mm-hmm. So I would say currently to get the feel for this place as it exists now, come to Fletcher Park on a Friday night when it's nice out.
We've got our kids running around, they're running around like Lord of the flies. They're, you know, they're playing like, that's dangerous. Yeah. Well, you know, up to a certain point, right? Like it's Lord of the Flies before it becomes weird before, before it goes hostile. But they're, they're playing. I mean, they're playing and
[00:41:24] Michael Zarick: you don't see that a lot
[00:41:25] Mark Latta: anymore.
Yeah. And, and so this is an urban environment, right? And one of the things you get as a parent, as soon as people find out that you're expecting, the, the next question is like, well, where are you going? Where are you going to move? They always ask, yeah, are you gonna move to the suburbs? And I hate that. I hate that question.
I don't want to move to the suburb. Yeah, no. It's like, I'm not moving anywhere. I'm gonna make this community give, give us what we want. Like that's what we're gonna do. So Fletcher Park, it's a neighborhood controlled park, but it was, again, one of those things where we decided we wanted to do something, we were able to make it work, and now it's a park.
Kids run around and play. People gather there every Friday, get drinks from eighth Day or Foing. That would be a place I think that people need to check out. CCIC, especially on First Fridays is a place that you need to go check out. The, the tool rental place on West or East Michigan. Millions. That's old school, right?
Like if you wanna get a, a flavor for how this place was 20, 30, 40 years ago mm-hmm. Go hang out there they're closed on Saturday. So go on a Friday. And just listen to people like the work that they're doing. Like, you, you, you get the sense of like, oh, this is, this is a group of people who are just gonna like, they're gonna get shit done.
And they're not, they're not trying to, you know, they're not making an Instagram story about it. They're not trying to like be someone's best friend. There's a job to do and they're here to do it. Mm-hmm. Right. It's that Midwestern work ethic that I think definitely defines us in a lot of ways. But yeah, just like those spaces.
And I would say TikTok, I would say, you know, dormant street Garcia's hotdogs. To be clear, this is not TikTok, the app, this is TikTok. Oh, sorry. This is not TikTok. Yeah, thank you. This is TikTok Tavern. Okay. On, on 10th Street. Okay. Yeah. Which is kind of like, which has become like the defacto city council.
Okay. For the near East side. Oh, that's cool.
[00:43:09] Michael Zarick: Yeah. So one thing, I, you're the second person, so this is not a, it's gonna become a tradition. Okay. Hope. But I had Megan, who I interviewed first ask you a question. Oh, okay. And she said, I would like to know what you like most about Indianapolis, or you could speak about your neighborhood.
What do you feel gives Indianapolis its unique flavor in comparison? And you said you travel a good amount. In comparison to other places you've been like, what is, what is unique about Indianapolis? What do you like? What's sort of the, the feeling in that way?
[00:43:40] Mark Latta: I don't like this question. Mm. Well, this goes back to what I spoke about earlier. Yeah. Maybe a little bit, which is that most places are not that different. Well, and yeah. And I think what makes it unique is like your personal feeling and connection to it, right. That you can, what makes it unique is that you can place yourself and your story into it.
It's become intertwined. And I think that's true for any place that feels unique to anyone. Like there's something about that place. That it is now a part of you and you're a part of it, but you say that as if it's a negative. It's not necessarily a negative. Am I saying that it's a negative? No, I don't think it's a negative at all.
Yeah. I, I guess what I'm saying is, is that's not an external thing to the place necessarily. It's an internal thing. Mm-hmm. And so what makes Indianapolis unique? Probably nothing except for the people. But there are people everywhere. So I think it's that feeling that we have. Now, I will say that one thing I do like about Indianapolis is, is the idea that like, it's a place, it can be a blank slate for a lot of folks.
You can do stuff here and have the safety of community, have the fallback of community, and it's not as, it's not gonna be as risky as maybe doing it in Chicago or New York or even Denver. So I think that that is nice.
[00:44:54] Michael Zarick: I found your unique flavor, but maybe that's in your internal answer. Well,
[00:45:00] Mark Latta: yeah.
May maybe it is., I have a conversation with a friend who I will not name 'cause I don't wanna throw him under the bus. That's okay. And we, one of the, one of the things our, our common talking point is that one of the things that holds Indianapolis back is our inability to really critique and to like, want to move beyond a level of mediocrity.
And I think there's some truth to that. And I think that the question about what makes Indianapolis unique and like, celebrating, it's like, it's like the, the Visit Indy type question. Like where everything is gonna be positive and spun into marketing. Right? I know that's not, that's not what you're trying to do.
Mm-hmm. But that question kind of opens the possibility of just like celebrating mediocrity.
[00:45:41] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. I, I appreciate that answer. Yeah. No, I, I, if anything, so. This is something I've not said on the podcast yet, so I can say it. one time I was talking to my therapist when I lived in Arkansas and she said, Michael, for better or for worse, you are the most honest person I've ever met in my life.
Mm. Which is not something you wanna really hear from your therapist, but uh, I do appreciate that from you. It's like, I, I don't wanna lie to your face in a lot of ways. It's like, I want to be honest about the place I'm living in and I want it. You do. At least is the, sense I've gotten, you want this for not only Indianapolis, but all places.
I want it to be the best place it can be. Yeah. Yeah. So that honesty of, you know, maybe there's not so much uniqueness I think is a kindness in a way.
[00:46:24] Mark Latta: Hmm. I appreciate that. Thank you. That was, that was well said. I try. Yeah.
[00:46:31] Michael Zarick: Okay. So that was the question from Megan. Okay. Give me, does not have to be Indianapolis focused.
It can be anything. Whatever question you would like to ask the next person. Actually it'll be Khaled 'cause I'm talking to him tomorrow. Oh, okay. So, so maybe what, avoid whatever you would ask him in your next meeting. What, what question would you like to ask the next guest?
Man, I feel like this is one I should have had time to prepare for.
Here's, here's the question. It's fun off the cuff. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It is, it's fun for you. I get, I get that. Here a question that, that I like that has been bouncing around in my head is what would you do right now if you weren't scared?
Mm.
Man, I feel like I, like that's a, that's a poignant question. I feel like I have to answer it. I don't have an answer. Well, I mean, we can Okay. If I wasn't scared, but, but I think that's, that's, that's some of the beauty of that question, right? Maybe a crime. Ooh. You know, I flip, I don't mean that literally, but I, for I don't mean that literally.
police. Um, I feel like there's a, a, there's so much to be afraid of right now. Yeah. But I also think that you can't let that stop you from doing anything. Actually, in a lot of ways, what I'm afraid of right now is doing this speaking you know, I, I'm unemployed, so like there's a lot of fear in terms of like, will I be okay in a, in a couple months?
That type of thing. So just going out and doing this perceived waste of time talking to people, not, no offense, not, no, I'm thinking,
[00:48:06] Mark Latta: I don't think it's a waste of time, but I think it's, I think it's great. Yeah.
[00:48:09] Michael Zarick: That fear of like, am I doing enough to not only serve myself, but my wife and my cat. Okay.
To be able to, you know, live life, if I wasn't afraid I'd, I'd keep doing what I'm doing, if that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I feel like I'm on the right track. Yeah.
[00:48:25] Mark Latta: And I think I like that question because it normalizes fear. Right? And it says it's okay to feel contradictory things at the same time we don't necessarily need to get to a space where we no longer feel fear.
Maybe we just need to get to a space where like, okay, I'm afraid and here's what I'm afraid of, and yet I'm still going to move forward.
[00:48:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:48] Mark Latta: But I do think like you talking with people, like that's how we build the future. That's one of the reasons I'm working. Yeah. That's one of the ways we build the future.
This has been a great conversation. Thank you. Yeah,
[00:48:56] Michael Zarick: absolutely. Yeah. ,
[00:48:57] Mark Latta: You said this is only your second episode, so Yes.
I'm just kinda curious, like Yeah. What you find, like what you discover over the course of many more episodes is like mm-hmm.
that I think about, I don't know if, I don't wanna say it's a struggle, but it's something I just think about is, in some ways, the, the nature of these spaces are that they should ebb and flow. Hmm. They come into formation based on a, on a moment and a need that exists at a time. And then when that moment and need changes, then maybe they, they go away. And I think in some ways we can interpret that as the loss of a community space because it is, but if the reason for that third space no longer exists, or the third space has kind of addressed that need, then in some ways it going away could be a sign of progress, could be a sign of actually, like there are connections made.
So I don't know. I mean, I, I'd be curious to, to see what you find. Like are these spaces going away or are they just doing the things that they normally do? I don't know. That's interesting.
[00:50:04] Michael Zarick: Yeah. My sort of I guess you'd call it a thesis is that in many ways because of the I'm gonna call it the progression, the progression of capitalism.
Mm-hmm. We have sort of pushed people out of what would traditionally be third spaces because we have moved to a, I'm gonna call it pay to play, sort of like you have to pay to exist anywhere, whether that's a restaurant, a coffee shop, a even the YMCA. Yeah, yeah. In a lot of ways. Like the YMCA is sort of the premier community space.
The, the lack of place where I can go, make connections and you know, meet people is sort of something that I think we've, I. I, I personally have, I've seen or at least feel maybe that doesn't exist, and maybe I'll find someplace that exists now.
[00:50:53] Mark Latta: That's interesting. Well, and I think that also hits on a reason why I like this neighborhood, is that it's intentionally very suspicious of capitalism.
A lot of the folks, I mean, this is it, it didn't really click until Jesse explained this to me. Like, so like a lot of folks in bike party, right? Live in this area. A lot of folks in DSA live in this area, and no, didn't click until we, Jesse came out to, this is why he was running as a canon. He is like, well, you know, like this area went for Sanders by like 80 some percent.
I was like, oh, okay. So we're all, we're all kind of like a bunch in many ways. Like a bunch of leftists left leaning folks have kind of gravitated toward this area. Unbeknownst. Which I think is not necessarily true. 'cause you could trace it back to a lot of things like gravitated this area because it was affordable, it was cheap, and there were 50% of the houses that were empty, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, you buy one for $30,000 Yeah. At a time. That's really interesting to me as well. And I think that, that just personally, I'm trying to tell that story of why I think that's important without falling into these left, right, binaries. Mm-hmm. Right. Instead, I, I think because this idea of, well, it's a blank slate, you know, mutual aid.
There's, there's folks looking out for one another. We're taking care of ourselves. We're, we're trying to advocate for our own, you know, benefits. Those are all qualities that kind of are ascribed to a more left-leaning population. But we're not out. well, most people aren't like. Talking about politics or talking about left or, or ideological,
namings. We're instead just living our lives. And it turns out like, oh, we're kind of all politically aligned. That's really interesting to me.
[00:52:42] Michael Zarick: I feel similarly in the conversation I had with Jesse, it's sort of like when I talked to my mother-in-law it's like we are in alignment in terms of our beliefs, but we're not in alignment in terms of our political alignment.
And I think that is true of most people. Mm-hmm. I think in many ways you just have to find a way to communicate those ideas. And that sort of resonates with what you said. Yeah. It's like you are not speaking specifically on the news of the day, but you have found a mutual understanding of what you desire out of life, which is just a, a, you know, maybe useful to live a happy and healthy and comfortable life, which is true of everyone.
And you've found a way to do that or attempt to do that? Yeah, I think there's ways to dance around, as you said, like, political alignment and just sort of live a good life with those around you.
[00:53:37] Mark Latta: Yeah. And I think you're right, and I think this conversation has allowed me to kind of think about another quality of the near East side, right?
Like it's that, I don't know, I am sure it exists everywhere else, but it's like near East Grit. It's like, why shouldn't we have what we want here? Of course, we want, we want, we want green space. We want to have the same life expectancy as everyone else. We want access to food, we want, we want all these things.
Like why shouldn't we? If you can't give us those, then fuck you, get out, get outta the way. Like, but we as people deserve to have those things just like everyone else deserved that, or we deserve to have those things. Mm-hmm. Like that's, that's just it. That's the red line for us. And we aren't willing to let that go.
That's why people are filling their own potholes. Yeah. '
[00:54:20] Michael Zarick: cause they're tired of waiting.
[00:54:22] Mark Latta: Yeah, because it's, yeah. 'cause help's not coming. Correct. Now we, we can argue about how to get that help, but in the meantime, man, we're gonna fill that pothole. All right. That's it.
[00:54:35] Michael Zarick: I a shaking hand. Thanks for chatting.
[00:54:37] Mark Latta: Yeah, thank you.
[00:54:43] Michael Zarick: Thanks again to Mark for a great conversation on this episode of Third Space Indy. If you're interested in the show notes, you can head to thirdspaceindy.com, all of the show notes from every episode are listed right there in the archive for your reading and viewing pleasure. Thanks also to the local artist Jennasen for her song, Scared Rabbit, that serves as the intro and outro music.
It's a great song and really am thankful to her for permission to use that. You can also follow Third Space Indy on Instagram if you want regular updates or just a different way to contact me.
really looking forward to sharing the next episode of Third Space Indy with you. Have a great rest of the day.