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Episode Summary

Host Michael Zarick of Third Space Indy interviews Indianapolis cyclist Keith Hutchison at Highland Park about building community on bikes through Bike Party and bicycle riding groups. Keith, an Indianapolis native who returned in 2011 after 17 years in Colorado partly to ride here, describes Bike Party as a free, monthly, second-Tuesday ride begun in April 2016 that now draws up to nearly 1,000 riders in summer and continues year-round with volunteer, consensus-based planning and route test rides. They discuss Indianapolis’s cycling history and growing infrastructure (bike lanes, Cultural Trail, Monon), the social “yes-and” spontaneity of biking, and exploring alleys and overlooked routes. Keith emphasizes the overlooked middle space between sport cycling and advocacy: riding bikes for fun, freedom, and low-barrier third spaces, and notes the rise of women-centered groups in the local scene.

Third Space Indy is support by City Rising (https://cityrising.org/)
Third Space Indy is support by Proformus (https://www.proformus.com/)

00:00 Cycling Should Be Fun
01:00 Third Place Concept
01:37 Meet Keith Hutchison
02:30 What Is Bike Party
04:38 Keith’s Bike Roots
05:29 Indy’s Cycling Comeback
08:32 From Full Moon to Bike Party
10:43 Dirt Bags and City Exploring
11:38 How Routes Get Planned
14:01 A Free Rolling Third Space
15:40 Bike Tribes and DIY Groups
19:41 Highland Park Bike Hub
21:47 Etiquette and Street Culture
23:31 Exploration and Presence
28:35 Inclusive Groups Growing
31:56 Bikes as Simple Transport
34:08 We Are Traffic Too
35:16 Defining Third Space
36:59 Third Place vs Space
37:28 Bike Party Vibes
39:29 Routes Distance Starts
42:00 Rules Safety Traffic
42:21 Lost Third Spaces
49:13 World We Want
52:24 Internet Social Media
59:31 Indy Bike Culture
01:03:39 Next Guest Question
01:04:38 Where To Find Keith
01:05:31 Bike Party Links Outro

Episode Transcript

Keith Hutchison

[00:00:00] Keith Hutchison: I think one of the things is, cycling can be very serious, especially if you're using the word cycling. 'cause you're either like, there's the sport cycling and there's the advocacy of cycling and there's this space in the middle that, these two groups tend to forget about the middle space.

where it's fun to ride bikes. And so what we, our mission through whatever we do, whether it's Bike Party or Gentle Folks, or Indy... Indy Bike Friends or stuff like that, is like, we wanna make sure that people remember that bicycling is supposed to be fun and That's bring that, keep that sense of exploration on a bicycle and that, that idea of the freedom that a bicycle gives you.

[00:00:56] Michael Zarick: Hey, my name's Michael Zarick and this is Third Space Indy. In 1989, a man named Ray Oldenberg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he coined the term the third place. This outlines a place that is outside of your home and outside of your work that you can go be with others, be yourself, and build community.

So I've made it my goal to find people all over Indianapolis who are doing their very best to build that type of space right here in our city. So today I'm sitting with a man named Keith Hutchinson, who is doing his very best to do that on two wheels, I think that is true.

So two

wheels

[00:01:35] Keith Hutchison: and a motor.

[00:01:36] Michael Zarick: Yeah. So I became aware of Keith Hutchinson because of a thing called Bike Party, although I think we're gonna talk about a lot of other stuff today as well. Um, but before we get into that, can you just go ahead and tell the people who you are?

[00:01:49] Keith Hutchison: I am Keith Hutchison. I grew up in Indianapolis from here, left for 17 years and came back in 2011.

And part of my reasoning for coming back was to ride my bicycle in Indianapolis. Uh, 'cause of what was starting to happen here and my family is, was still here and of course, and friends and whatnot. But

[00:02:08] Michael Zarick: Where, where'd you go for 17 years?

[00:02:09] Keith Hutchison: Colorado.

[00:02:10] Michael Zarick: Oh, what? I feel like Colorado has a nice cycling. Uh,

[00:02:13] Keith Hutchison: it depends on where you live and it depends on, yeah, because I lived in a few different places.

I spent a majority of my time in town called Steamboat Springs, which was small and had good connectivity just because of the smallness of the town, uhhuh and the active lifestyle. That makes

sense.

[00:02:29] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:02:30] Michael Zarick: So, uh, I mentioned Bike Party. I have unfortunately not been able to attend one yet.

[00:02:36] Keith Hutchison: Hmm.

[00:02:36] Michael Zarick: Uh, and I would really, really love to.

It looks like a great time. So for those who might not know what Bike Party is, can you share what Bike Party is in essence?

[00:02:46] Keith Hutchison: I mean, the simplest answer is it is a monthly event that happens every second Tuesday, where a group of friends get together and show people to ride around on bicycles.

[00:02:57] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:58] Keith Hutchison: Um, we've been doing it for, since April of 2016. So next month will be our 10th Bike Party year starting.

[00:03:07] Michael Zarick: That's, that's crazy.

[00:03:07] Keith Hutchison: Um, let's see what else. We did take a little bit of break in 2020, of course, uh, for social distancing and whatnot. Um, and then af ever since then, it has been, it grew exponentially when, when we came back, uh, in the summer, we get close to a thousand people on a ride in the winter.

Uh, it's much smaller maybe, um. It can be anywhere from 20 to a hundred depending on the how cold it is.

[00:03:36] Michael Zarick: That's well you guys do, uh, ride. Uh, I make fun of Anna who's sitting behind the camera and myself. I call us fair weather riders. You guys are all weather riders?

[00:03:46] Keith Hutchison: Uh, yeah, we are. Um, there and there's a few of 'em right there.

[00:03:50] Michael Zarick: Yeah, they're coming up.

[00:03:51] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. Uh, that's a handful of the bike people. Um, yeah. Uh, it is a, it goes on all year round. Uh, we've, I can't recall if we've ever canceled. We did cancel, we postponed once for weather before COVID Since then we haven't. Um, and then COVID of course, was kind of like, yeah, let's, uh, we'll just not do this and not, we don't wanna,

[00:04:14] Michael Zarick: you don't even mess with it.

[00:04:14] Keith Hutchison: We didn't wanna be a vector of infection. Um,

[00:04:18] Michael Zarick: I feel like this past January there was just like. Three to six inches of snow on the ground and you guys still ripped it. And I was like, you guys are crazy. And every time I meet a bike person out in the wild, I'm like, you seem like a really cool, like, but also slightly unhinged person.

[00:04:35] Keith Hutchison: That's a fair description. I think most of us are slightly unhinged. I mean, I, myself, I've always been kind of, I mean I've been riding bikes since when I, since I learned to ride a bike. I've been riding bicycles. Like I grew up out in Decatur Township. I was in four H, did bicycling with this, this, we had this crazy shop teacher named West Cozad that would take us on rides down to like little podunk towns in Morgan County.

And then, like my brother and I wrote our BMXs from basically Southwest Way to downtown one day. And back when we were like 10 and 11, you know, we were, you know, it was just, it was a different world. And you, you know, we didn't have parents. Our parents were there, but they weren't gonna take us where we wanted to go, so it was just.

If you're gonna do it, you gotta go.

[00:05:20] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:05:20] Keith Hutchison: You know, and then growing up, skateboarding adjacent and that kind of thing. It's just, there's a bit of adrenaline pursuit with us, I think.

[00:05:29] Michael Zarick: So you spent 17 years in Colorado and you said you were called back to Indianapolis because of what was developing here.

And I don't think I'm aware of what is developing here. So can you tell me?

[00:05:40] Keith Hutchison: Sure. So, um, and I don't, I'm, this is part of the, I don't know exactly, mayor Greg Ballard, the mayor before Hoggset was very wanting to get Indianapolis to have, get back in touch with their bicycling roots. 'cause India..., back in the twenties, whatever, there were like a hundred and some cycling manufacturers here.

Our racing history has its roots in bicycling racing. Um, like the, the Holmans and all that started their racing. Careers by putting on bicycle races at various bike tracks around the city. Yeah. The most famous one of those would be Newby Oval. And you's probably, ed Pajama would be better talking about that than I would Uhhuh, but, and I think he has talked about it.

But, um, so we have a, Indianapolis itself has a strong cycling tradition. Um, and, you know, I would come back from Colorado to visit my brother or whatever, and my family and um, which I would be driving up college and I'd see like half a dozen people riding in a group up college in like 1987 or what, or no, 1997.

And I'm like, what is going on here? And then when Ballard comes in, it's like he starts putting bike lanes. He's the, he's the impetus behind the cultural trail. He, uh, the Monon was before that and the Monon really opened it up for people and then. Ballard really pushed that through and in a lot of ways we're living off the pro, the, the impulse of Ballard as far as the infrastructure here in town.

[00:07:13] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:07:13] Keith Hutchison: Uh, which has grown exponentially since I've been back in 2011. You know, it's like you can pretty much get any, except for the northwest side and the south side, you can pretty much get anywhere in Indianapolis on a bicycle, on a greenway or a Surface side street, um, without having too many problems.

[00:07:31] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I mean, you

[00:07:31] Keith Hutchison: have to know how to do it, but yeah,

[00:07:33] Michael Zarick: even, even like this past week, literally, um, we rode our bikes here, Anna and I. Yeah. Um, and I felt like such a fool learning last week how to get where we are at Highland Park. Uh, because I was like, it's so obvious and so easy. I was like, why haven't I been doing this for like the year and a half I've been here?

Um, it seems so silly. And like you saying, like you can get anywhere. I really, I do agree like almost entirely.

[00:08:00] Keith Hutchison: Because what you have to too is remember is Indianapolis for the most part, is built on a grid. Mm-hmm. So you, you get especially in the old city limits, which are basically the IPS footprint, so, um, which, um, but in the old city limits, it was all grid.

Uh, for the most part. There's also, uh, a network of alleys that, um, when you get a little more adventurous, uh, which is a lot of what we do is that kind of stuff too, outside of putting on Bike Party.

[00:08:29] Anna: Yeah.

[00:08:29] Keith Hutchison: Um, but yeah, so there's whole tradition. Ballard starts this thing and then at the same time you have social events happening.

Um, before, like as far as the something more like Bike Party, when I came back I didn't know anybody really. So I was just putting on social media or like, I guess Reddit and Facebook, Hey, let's go ride bikes, and we'd meet like here or state fair or uh, White River State Park or Broad Ripple. And I just like start putting it out there.

Let's go ride bikes kind of thing. And other people were doing that would run across to other groups. And then there was this thing called a Full Moon. The Full Moon ride that was always happened around the full moon and it was chaotic. Like anything on bicycles, it's so short, it's chaotic, I think. Um, but like, there was no real planning, but it would happen around the full moon.

Somebody just post on Facebook, uh, hey, we're gonna do this. We meet at City Market. Um, but it was unplanned and it would get chaotic. Almost too chaotic at times. And once it folded, uh, a couple of guys had heard about this thing called Bike Party, which started in San Jose, like in the early nineties. San Jose Bike Party.

It was a, if you're familiar with this thing called critical mass. Critical Mass is this protest ride that started in San Francisco in the late eighties. Um, and it basically, they get a critical mass of cyclist and take over the streets. The short version of Bike Party is, uh, in San Jose. They wanna do a Critical Mass, but they wanted be more polite about it.

So their initial intentional was to stop the stoplights and be a, it was more of, instead of the protest aspect of Critical Mass, they wanna focus on the party and the, and the, the fact that being on bikes is fun.

[00:10:19] Anna: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:20] Keith Hutchison: Uh, and so that's where the Bike Party movement comes from. These two guys, Matt and uh, Jordan had heard about this, had been on the Full Moon Rides, didn't like the chaos of the full moon ride, so they decided to start actually planning a monthly ride, and that's how we get to Bite Party.

Indianapolis is first ride in April of 2016.

[00:10:38] Anna: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:39] Keith Hutchison: That's the basic history of how we. How we get there. Um, at the same time, there's this other subculture happening in Indianapolis. It's the dirt bag kind of thing in a non pejorative sense. Yeah. Yeah. A dirt bag mean is come, you know, the term from like climbing where it's somebody who's kind of dedicated their life to climbing, so to speak, or live their life in a way where they can pursue that interest to their, to their, to make, give them joy.

Mm-hmm. And so when we say dirt bag and dirt hag for the women, um,

[00:11:11] Michael Zarick: I've never heard that,

[00:11:12] Keith Hutchison: uh, that is a, that is a Indianapolis creation. I'm, I'm not sure which one of my lovely women friends said that, but, um, created it, but it's a great one. But yeah, so the dirt bags and dirt hags, we have this other thing where we explore like the alleys and dirt roads of the city.

[00:11:28] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:29] Keith Hutchison: Uh, like railroad service, roads and things like that. And, and alleys and other neighborhoods maybe don't typically get the attention by bicycles.

[00:11:37] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:11:38] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:11:38] Michael Zarick: So you mentioned how Bike Party. In San Jose was a planned ride and Bike Party here in Indianapolis is a planned ride. You're going to do a test ride today.

Um, what goes into like, determining the route and like making sure it's chill for a thousand people to show up?

[00:11:53] Keith Hutchison: So, sorry. We're, um, it's a little, we're kind of, we're not hierarchical. Um, so we kind of, we have one person that picks a calen, has a calendar and people will volunteer to, uh, lead the ride. Uh, from there we just kind of have sort of a schedule of, um, just, we have it all in place, like kind of, we call it the lore.

So, you know, we have a set schedule of like, this is when the testing happens. This is, we need a route by then, we need blah, blah blah. You know, there is just this kind of standardized, but it's super flexible. And then outside of that, the leader just kind of the, the person for the month kind of just does.

Um, how they want. And then the test drives are there for, uh, we have two types of test drives. We have private ones where we kind of just the group of people, um, you know, comment, we'll do a Ryan comment, you'll see us out and about doing that. And then we'll have a public test drive for everyone. Anyone that wants to come to come after.

We know that the route is pretty good. And that's both to get people who are gonna come to Bike Party to know the route, uh, so they can jump in and help or just know the route so they can put it in their phones or, or just come and hang out. Uh, it's also like, we're always looking for volunteers and it's a good time for people to come and help out.

'cause we, uh, we need people to watch intersections if they know the route they can. If we get separated, they can pick up. 'cause it is, we're non hierarchal and it's very self organizing in a lot of ways. Like, it's like, I don't lead, I haven't led an actual Bike Party ride in probably three years at this point.

But, and I'll ride through the pack and it's just,

[00:13:36] Michael Zarick: they're like, he definitely has it,

[00:13:40] Keith Hutchison: but I've told them what to do a few times or like, not what to do, but I'm like, I think that we need to do this or this intersection is no good. Like it's just, there's a lot, like there's a handful of us that have been doing it from the beginning and then a lot of newer people.

Um, and then, uh, it's all collaborative and consensus based. Like our big decisions are all consensus based. Um, we have this saying that, we say that is, fight party will never charge you money or send an email. Um, so we we're big on, we are very big on, um, we should have no money and nobody coming to, um, Bike Party should have to pay for it at all.

[00:14:22] Anna: Yeah.

[00:14:23] Keith Hutchison: Um, and that's actually, and yeah, well you'll, when you ask that question later, that's, I, I you, that's a component of the space idea. Is we want this space to be available for anyone that wants to come.

[00:14:36] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:37] Keith Hutchison: Um, 'cause it is a, you know, it's a, it's a rolling space, but it's a space no matter what. And I think that, you know, the third, if people who go to the bar for their Third Space, they're spending money at the bar.

We, we want people to come here and, you know, maybe they have five bucks in their account for the next week, but they could still come to the Bike Party and have a good time and not have to worry about that aspect of their, what's going on behind them.

[00:15:00] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:01] Keith Hutchison: You know, so it's, uh, we're, and uh anyone's open to come.

We've had, you know, in the summer it's just like, like I said, there's almost a thousand people and it's like all people from all walks of life, we'll have, I mean, some years, some summer, I remember one summer we had this little kid, he couldn't have been much more than like seven or eight just riding up front the whole time with everybody.

You know, it's just like, it's an amazing view of all these people just coming together and having this good time. And then there's like all these little. Subgroups too that come and join to make the big bar. It's like Voltron, all these little pieces make a big Voltron Bike Party.

[00:15:39] Michael Zarick: Well, that's kind of funny that you say that.

So you mentioned that there's a bunch of other, like little biking organizations. I have a bunch of random like biking cycling groups who follow me on Instagram. Um, would you say that Bike Party is sort of like the, the Comic-Con of the local bike scene?

[00:15:56] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, I mean, I think so. We used to, like years back we used to kind of call it the gathering of the bike tribes kind of thing.

Um, you know, that sort of thing. Like it just, 'cause there is, there's a, and there are a whole, there's a bunch of little subgroups. Like there's a group that meets here and they do all kinds of different things. Like there's like, uh, like as far as social groups, there's, let's see, there's these, uh, Naptown party riders.

They're kind of like a Bike Party and they're very heavy on the party part. Um, and then there's, we just ride, they're like kind of. Uh, like single speed, like be adult BMXs, but whatever they got, I mean, they have a couple guys that ride re Cummins and Trikes and they're just chill. Like, let's go out and hang out and ride like, but, and party, but ride.

And then you have groups, like I do another thing called, uh, gentle Folks, if that has a long like Wes Anderson style, name, like Gentle Folks, bicycle Riding Exploration Society of Indianapolis. But it's just called Gentle Folks. Uh, and we do like the more gravel, dirt, like off road type stuff, but it's, you know, we get a lot of people that show up for the first time, like, oh wow, this is, you can do this on a bike.

You know, you can. And again, we don't charge for any of that stuff, you know? Yeah. It's always like we all, everything, like all our stickers and everything are volunteer done. All our art is volunteer for Bike Party or any of the other groups that have logos. It's all done. It's like, you know, you kind of can draw a comparison to the zine culture back in the nineties and early two thousands in that respect.

You know, it's all DIY. Here on the part of everyone, you know, we're, that, that aspect has been important. It's, I think that tradition. 'cause I mean, I don't know.

[00:17:39] Michael Zarick: There was a, so I lived in Moab, Utah for six months.

[00:17:41] Keith Hutchison: Okay, cool.

[00:17:42] Michael Zarick: Uh, doing construction and uh, they would do a monthly Bike Party there. And there was a lot of PBR consumed.

Yes.

[00:17:52] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:17:52] Michael Zarick: It's like good, good cheap beer, basically. Um, and I just recall that what I loved about Moab is sort of this concept that you're talking about, which is like, we don't really care who you are. And this is true of all parts of Moab, which was like, most of the people who lived in Moab were, uh, working class people who worked in the tourism industry.

Yeah. 'cause that's what Moab is. It's like a tourist town. Um, so it's like, oh, you were a, you're a river rafting instructor. Uh, but in the afternoon you just wanna like, also just wanna float down the river without an annoying, annoying tourist with you. Um, so there, that's Bike Party in Moab was like the culmination of that, where it's like, this is like the townie thing.

[00:18:32] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:18:33] Michael Zarick: That is like, they just go hang out, drink a couple beers and like have a good time and hang out, ride their bikes down the street, man.

[00:18:40] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. Well, Steamboat Springs is a tourist town also. We didn't have a Bike Party there. We should have had a Bike Party. Dang. Missed

[00:18:48] Michael Zarick: opportunity

[00:18:49] Keith Hutchison: next time I go back in time.

Hot

[00:18:50] Michael Zarick: tub time machine.

[00:18:51] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, it, it, like that concept is uh, totally, yeah. But it's, yeah. Um, and it was the same kind of thing, like that idea of like a lot of us, you know, that's where the dirt bag idea, well if you lived in Moab, you already knew what a dirt bag was too,

[00:19:05] Michael Zarick: basically.

[00:19:06] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

It's the same like the, those mountain bikers and dirt and Moab were basically what we're talking about when we talk about. They work in the shop all day and then they go out and hit some mountain bike trails in the evening.

[00:19:18] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:18] Keith Hutchison: You know,

[00:19:18] Michael Zarick: I mean, it's the same thing for us. Like, do we work for a nonprofit construction company and like, basically everyone would like work all day out in the hot sun and then like go

[00:19:28] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:19:28] Michael Zarick: Into the, into arches or something. Like, would go on a hike or whatever. Just like do something.

[00:19:32] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:19:33] Michael Zarick: Um, because it's like, that's just what you do out there. Yeah. It's not, it's not like super urban. That's like the thing to do. Yeah. That's why you live there.

[00:19:41] Keith Hutchison: Well, like even here, you know, we have a lot, I mean, say what you will about any parks.

We have a lot of great parks here. Like Highland Park is like my favorite, one of my favorite parks in the city. Just 'cause the sunset view from here is spectacular.

[00:19:54] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:55] Keith Hutchison: And like I was telling you before we talked, you know, it is kind of a center of social cycling in Indiana. Like

[00:20:01] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Why is that?

[00:20:02] Keith Hutchison: I, we've always just come here, you know, like Bike Party, our first Bike Party, and I wasn't on it, but the first Bike Party in 2016 started here.

I think part of it is because it's a central location for people that live either downtown on the near East side. It's pretty close to Fountain Square too. Um, but it has this view of downtown that's just spectacular.

[00:20:23] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:20:23] Keith Hutchison: And then it has our, um, our sticker pole back there that has every, any little cycling club or other club in the town has their stickers on that pole back there.

[00:20:34] Michael Zarick: That's actually like, kind of why I asked you. 'cause you were like, oh, I live somewhere on the east side. And I was like, well, we live in Broadville so I won't strain you too much. Come, come. I was like the Highland Park and it's gonna be like a semi nice day, so it'll come hang out.

[00:20:46] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:20:46] Michael Zarick: Um, and you're like, oh, this is like the, the spot.

It is. So it's kind of funny.

[00:20:51] Keith Hutchison: There's, yeah, there's another place that, uh, called Beer Castle, which is, um,

[00:20:57] Michael Zarick: I don't think I know that one.

[00:20:58] Keith Hutchison: You've probably, you may have seen it, it, it's possibly gonna get torn down this year, but it's, um. Just south of 16th Street on the river is that, there's that dam Ellenburg, well, it's Emeryville Dam there, the remainder of Emeryville Dam.

Um, but they had two like turret towers on the side of it, um, when they first built it. Well on the East Bank, the turret is still there and that, so, and everyone in the area calls it castle. And then the cycling, we call it Beer Castle and it's just called Beer Castle, but it looks kind of like a castle.

Mm-hmm. So, and it, you know, there's been all kinds of Tom foolery happen there over the years.

[00:21:37] Michael Zarick: Um, so Anna and I moved from Northwest Arkansas, Fayetteville, um, which is near Bentonville. Mm-hmm. Also becoming sort of a, a bicycling place.

[00:21:46] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:21:47] Michael Zarick: Um, and one thing that we noticed when moving from the. Northwest Arkansas to here is that the sort of etiquette around cycling is very different.

Um, I would call it worse. Yeah. Um, and I mean that from like top down, whether that's the friendliness of, uh, people driving cars, but also people interpersonally like communicating on their bikes. Um, do you have any opinion about like cycling culture here in Indianapolis and how it's developed over time?

[00:22:19] Keith Hutchison: I, I mean, I think, um, it's definitely grown and got a lot more positive over the years, uh, as far as, uh, Hey Tommy, saw

[00:22:29] Michael Zarick: some people there. How you

[00:22:30] Keith Hutchison: doing? Yeah, we're doing an interview.

[00:22:32] Michael Zarick: Oh shit. You're okay. Don't worry about it. You're fine. Looks like a nice interview.

[00:22:38] Keith Hutchison: Speaking of bike people.

[00:22:40] Michael Zarick: That's why we're in public.

[00:22:40] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:22:41] Michael Zarick: Good scene.

[00:22:41] Keith Hutchison: I mean, I guess there's an example of what you were just asking me is like, that's kind of the culture is like people just ride up and say, hey.

[00:22:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:48] Keith Hutchison: You know, it's like, um, as far as etiquette, I don't, trail etiquette is just like on your left, you know?

Yeah. Kind of thing. I mean, although I used to do it and now, or ring a bell, but so many people are like, if they have their earbuds in, I'm not gonna

[00:23:05] Michael Zarick: Definitely, I that is definitely something I notice.

[00:23:07] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I mean, it's not a, I'm not trying to be rude, but there's times when it's just like I would, yeah. I should, I'll, I'll indicate, I'll indicate as much as possible that I'm behind you.

I'm gonna pass you or let you know what's happening. But, on your left, everyone jumps, so I'm like, I'm just telling you I'm on your left. Like, it's so I, we, some of us try, some of us don't. Like, I, I also. Uh, like if I'm going up to Broad Ripple, a lot of times I'll go and I'll, I will stay off the Monon until I get to a certain point, but that's just 'cause I'm like screwing around the Alley or something.

Or I know of a dirt track, dirt trail that I want to check out or, yeah. Or like, you know, there's a series of potential stops that you're always wanting to check out, whether it's for Bike Party or something else, or like, you know, it's just this idea of exploration. Mm-hmm. Uh, the city. There's some, the city has so many cool little hidden things that are of visible on a bicycle or something that's maybe wasn't built for a bike, but is perfect for a bike.

Or like, just like these tiny little, like the, the carriage houses that you'll ride by if you go into in an Alley or things like, like interesting architecture. It's just like. You know, there's this whole idea of like, you can, you can tell what a city is like really by going through its alleys

[00:24:28] Michael Zarick: kind of thing.

Yeah. Oh, there's like the idea of like, you are forming a deeper understanding of the city, or like,

[00:24:33] Keith Hutchison: yeah.

[00:24:33] Michael Zarick: Seeing something that someone in that car wouldn't even notice. Oh,

[00:24:37] Keith Hutchison: I think that's a big, that's a big key is like, you don't, you see the world, like you, you know, when you're in a car, you're behind the glass, you're behind your cage, your steel cage, and when you turn the look that a beam is blocking your view.

But when you're on devices, you get this whole panoramic view of what's going on. And you also, you know, the side of that is you have to have your situ awareness heightened up. So having, not having these A-frames, blocking your view and being open to be able to hear and see and know what's going. Like, it keeps you very in the moment, like very present.

I find for bicycling it's like it's, it can be meditation and it can, but it can also, you're meditating at the same time. You're defending your life. At times.

[00:25:24] Michael Zarick: Um, the thing that I have really appreciated, I'm trying to get more into cycling here in Indianapolis. I think I was a little hesitant at the beginning 'cause it felt unsafe.

Um, and I think to an extent it might be. Um, but I think if you're aware, as you say, and you're present and you're paying attention, you can be safe. Um, but the thing that I really have appreciated since getting more actively doing it outside of, especially now that it's warming up, is this idea of like free flow life.

Where it's like, oh, if I ride downtown and now I'm just downtown, and I see it's like the blimps

[00:26:04] Keith Hutchison: flying over. Yep.

[00:26:04] Michael Zarick: There's a blimp. Uh, and then I see someone I know and you say hello like you did with, uh, what's

[00:26:09] Keith Hutchison: the guy's name? Tommy.

[00:26:10] Michael Zarick: Like Tommy that just rode by, uh, just to say hi. And it's like, oh, Tommy's like, oh, I'm going to.

Natural state provisions. You wanna come out, come hang out with me. Uh, and you're like, oh yeah, I'm not doing anything. I'm already here. Versus like, this is a big issue I have with cars, which is just like, you go from point A to point B and then point B to point A. Yep. And there and back. There's no opportunity for, um, improvisation.

[00:26:35] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, yeah. No.

[00:26:37] Michael Zarick: Do you get the same sort of thing happening regularly?

[00:26:40] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, no, it's, uh, there's definitely like an yes and element to riding bikes in Indianapolis, I think. Yeah. Like, uh, you know, it's like, yeah, like you just said, it's like, I mean that's one of the reasons Highland Park is what it is. 'cause people will stop in Highland Park and suddenly there's Jake, you know, and Jake and I are like, Hey, let's, I'm gonna go do this.

Do you wanna go do this? And it's like, sure, let's go do this. And then, or like, you know, I spent years comm I lived in, um, at 46 and Keystone for a few years and would commute up and down the Monon to go to work. And you just meet people that way, and then you become friends with these people, you're going back and forth to work with.

Well, you're not gonna have that experience commuting to work in a car. You might on the bus if you're one of those, you know, if you're a, a stranger, just a friend you haven't met yet, type of person. But, um, but yeah, on a bicycle, there's this, just this, this, like, there is this com like when my experience of that was there is this like, there was this like Monon commuter community, you know, of like, you know, you'd see the same faces, especially, you know, or you'd end up riding home with someone.

You get to know 'em. It's like, I think quite a few of the early people I met in the city on bicycles were from just commuting back and forth on the Monon. And then, then after a while, if you do that daily, and this is part of the exploration part, you know, you get kind of bored with the same thing over and over.

Uh, and when they open Fall Creek Trail up between, um, from the Monon to sent capital. There was a bike lane capital at the time, and it was, you know, it gave you a change of pace. You could go down that way, um, or something, you know, but you can, especially going home, you can always like, oh, on a nice day, don't have any respon.

Uh, if you don't have any responsibilities, you can take a five mile commute, turn it into 15, you know, and maybe you'll run into, you know, whoever and have them as part of that experience, you know?

[00:28:33] Michael Zarick: Yeah,

[00:28:34] Keith Hutchison: yeah.

[00:28:35] Michael Zarick: Um, is there anything you see developing in Indianapolis in terms of like bicycle culture, culture or infrastructure that you really enjoy or something you'd like to see more?

[00:28:49] Keith Hutchison: I think one of the things I'm noticing is we're getting a lot of like, um, smaller of the smaller groups that are more like women centered.

[00:29:02] Anna: Hmm.

[00:29:03] Keith Hutchison: Uh, and I, you know, coming from a white male that's. More, but like, I think cycling has a bit of a mostly white male dominance, um, even in a social scene. And there's these like, uh, groups, like two of my dearest friends run this little thing called Indy Bike.

Friends are on Instagram. Um, it's women and that ride together. There's a, a, another group called Gob, I think that means is Gob Girls on Bikes. Girls on Bikes, um,

[00:29:31] Michael Zarick: confirmed.

[00:29:32] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, it, it, they're, I don't know much about 'em. I think they're more road race, road oriented. Um, and then there's a, a Indy Divas, which has been around for quite a while and they're, uh, I think they do a lot of multifaceted.

I don't know much about them either, but I know some of the women that ride with help out with Bike Party are involved with Divas and they've been around, I think they've been around for a while, and I think they're pretty big. Like, but you know, the Indy Bike friends is pretty, I'm, since I'm really close friends with them, they do a lot of fun stuff.

And then, um, and then you have other groups like there's. Like I mentioned, you know, we just ride. Um, but I, I think that's, there's this, we want to make sure that, um, there's space for everybody here. And I think that's something that's, we're seeing more and more of. It's, it's, it's still a work in progress, but it know, there's also like, there's people, you know, I just ran across like this on Facebook today.

I was screwing around, screwing around and I was like, Riverside Bike Club. And it looks like it's a, like in Wild Style's neighborhood, it looks like there's a bike, like a social bike club in that area to of that community. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. So it's just like these little neighborhood groups just to, I mean, there's nothing better than getting together with your friends and riding around town on a bicycle.

[00:30:47] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:47] Keith Hutchison: You know, that's like, and that. That goes across every, every level of people. I think.

[00:30:52] Michael Zarick: I mean, last weekend we, uh, rode from Broad Ripple to Garfield Park doing our, it was effectively a test ride but for a walk. Um, and we had a great time. We rode all the way down and then on the way back up we were like, oh, let's stop at Upland, uh, get some beer and then

[00:31:07] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:31:08] Michael Zarick: Uh, and got food as well. 'cause we were dying, but, and then rode all the way back and it was like a wonderful day. And then, uh, I had to play Dungeons and Dragons, but then they went to a bar afterwards too. So

[00:31:21] Keith Hutchison: we had this idea years ago of trying to do a Dungeons and Dragon ride,

[00:31:25] Michael Zarick: like playing on the bike.

[00:31:26] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah. We've, I mean there's been the idea of bicycle jousting with like pool noodles. I've seen that. I think that's still, that's ha that has happened. Uh, I don't know about here. When I lived in Colorado Springs, they had these, got, these adult men would build these, uh, bikes called pixie bikes. They were like the little 16 inch, uh, kid bikes, but with giant seat posts and then race 'em downhill and that was just insane.

[00:31:50] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:31:51] Keith Hutchison: But yeah, I, yeah. Uh, I forgot where I was going. I

[00:31:55] Michael Zarick: No, just like fun

[00:31:56] Keith Hutchison: random. Yeah. It's just like, 'cause I know, I think one of the things is, um, you know, there in cycling is cycling can be very serious, especially if you're using the word cycling. 'cause you're either like, there's the sport cycling and there's the advocacy of cycling and there's this space in the middle that is, these two people always, these two groups tend to forget about the middle space.

where it's fun to ride bikes. And so what we, our mission through whatever we do, whether it's Bike Party or Gentle folks, or Indy Indy Bike Friends or stuff like that, is like, we wanna make sure that people remember that bicycling is supposed to be fun and That's bring that, keep that sense of exploration on a bicycle and that, that idea of the freedom that a bicycle gives you.

[00:32:45] Michael Zarick: Yeah,

[00:32:45] Keith Hutchison: because you know, it is the most perfect simple machine as far as getting around your environment. Mm-hmm. Like you, the fuel is food, you know, your fuel for your bicycle is what you consume as far as food and the water you need to hydrate. There's, there's not much more simpler other other than walking, you know.

So I think that's always been part of it too, I think is to, it is a very, once you get the bike, your barrier of entry is gone. You know, once you have a bike, now once you get a bike, you also start wanting to get more bikes depending on how serious you get into it. A different bike or there's that aspect.

But

[00:33:26] Michael Zarick: I met multiple Bike Party people who are like, I was like, oh. Is this the only bike you own? They go, no, I own like five.

[00:33:32] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:33:32] Michael Zarick: That's like,

[00:33:33] Keith Hutchison: there's this whole idea of n plus one. I only have two functioning bikes. I mostly ride the one I came in on today. But, uh, I, I have, that's my commuter, my getter shop, my grocery getter.

I don't, I don't drive in my personal life. Most of my stuff has to be done by bicycle or borrow my friend's car.

[00:33:54] Michael Zarick: Yeah. And I love that you are a bicycle commuter. 'cause I think we have this concept of like, cycling as an alternate form of transport, alternate from cars, but it's just a form of transport that you just can pick.

[00:34:07] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. There. Yeah. 'cause there's a, there's a saying in, there's a saying in, in the cycling, and it's more on the advocacy side, but that we are traffic. You know, this idea that, that yes, bicycles are traffic

[00:34:17] Michael Zarick: except they don't make traffic.

[00:34:19] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. We don't make traffic. And then, but that's the thing too, is like you have the, the.

The lovingly called cagers. Um,

[00:34:26] Michael Zarick: cagers is awesome.

[00:34:27] Keith Hutchison: That's from the motorcycle world. Oh yeah. But yeah. Um, but you know, they always are like, oh, traffic is terrible. It's like, but you were traffic. You know, if you're sitting in your car in traffic, you are the traffic.

[00:34:38] Michael Zarick: Well then there's the idea that they go, how come this bike lane is there?

I never see it full of bikes. It's like, well, favorite. They all just go, yeah, there's no bike traffic. You just, you disappear.

[00:34:49] Keith Hutchison: Just is United States. We don't have bike traffic. Was Amsterdam ever? Yes. I, I not, I, yeah, I got lost on a bicycle in Amsterdam 20 years ago.

[00:35:00] Michael Zarick: But there's no standstill bicycle traffic, you know.

[00:35:02] Keith Hutchison: No, no. Not,

[00:35:03] Michael Zarick: you're not ever like

[00:35:04] Keith Hutchison: sitting, I, I dream of the day that Indianapolis has a traffic bicycle, traffic jam. Yeah, that would be hilarious. Rush. I don't see that in my lifetime.

[00:35:14] Michael Zarick: We'll work towards it. Uh, we're gonna move on to what I call the canned questions. Aha. Ha ha uh, hey, Third Space Indy is sponsored by City Rising.

City Rising is a social impact studio that it leads and supports innovative projects that strengthen, celebrate and repair people in places, City Rising has sponsored a question, which is what is a Third Space to you?

[00:35:43] Keith Hutchison: Well, to me a Third Space is it, you know, the classic definition, but I like to add the component we talked about earlier about, uh, a low barrier to entry.

Like, uh, I think that it is important for people to gather where they are not wor like I think it's important for a Third Space to be somewhere where people can gather and not worry about what's in their personal life so much like the, the struggles, like I think, um, you know, 'cause they, if I understand the definition of Third Space, it would included churches and bars too.

And I think, uh, there's that idea of communion. I think the community there should, we should all be able to take that in if we can. So I, uh, I think it's important that that Third Space is also somewhere where they're not worried about how, not just if they can go, but how they can go. Mm-hmm. Um, so we wanna make sure, I think Third Space is like, I think the meeting room at the library.

I think a coffee, like I came up in a time hanging out in coffee shops. I know you hang out in coffee shops too. I do. Um, but I think coffee shops are a great, great example of a so fairly affordable Third Space. You know, um, Bike Party is a free Third Space. And I think, so the original definition is third place, right?

[00:37:03] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Third place is the actual,

[00:37:04] Keith Hutchison: but we always talk about space. Mm-hmm. And I think that it, it expands it a lot.

[00:37:08] Michael Zarick: Well, when you, I've said this a bunch of times, but the reason I use the word space is because it's sort of like amorphous. So for example, Bike Party, you actually used this term in your description of it.

A rolling space.

[00:37:21] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:37:22] Michael Zarick: Uh, something that is moving through the world. Yeah. Uh, it's not a singular place.

[00:37:27] Keith Hutchison: Right. Yeah. I mean, because it's like, I, you know, I go back to this, there's this idea, this guy Hacking Bay had this idea of like a, um, temporary autonomous zone, which is like this area where, uh, out, you know, people just come together and build this place that the outside authorities don't really have much to do with.

I, I think a mod, a good example of that would be kind of Burning Man or some raves and things like that. Like this place where the people go out and can let their, for lack of a better phrase, let's a freak flag fly. Um, and I think Bike Party is that space for people to do. 'cause if you, you haven't been to one yet, have you?

[00:38:02] Michael Zarick: No.

[00:38:03] Keith Hutchison: You gotta come in the summer. 'cause it's like I

[00:38:04] Michael Zarick: plan to, it's,

[00:38:05] Keith Hutchison: we have, there's people that, like, we've had people who like fire twirls and stuff show up in the summers and stuff,

[00:38:11] Michael Zarick: like on their bike.

[00:38:12] Keith Hutchison: No, they're not.

[00:38:13] Michael Zarick: Oh, okay.

[00:38:13] Keith Hutchison: I was

[00:38:14] Michael Zarick: like

[00:38:14] Keith Hutchison: that. I, I don't know if they're throwing twirl. They might twirl, but it's probably not fire while they

[00:38:18] Michael Zarick: riding.

Are you familiar with like, um, vaulting on a horse? Is that the word?

[00:38:24] Anna: Or like where like they have like somebody doing like gymnastics, like on the back of a horse.

[00:38:28] Michael Zarick: Oh, someone. Yeah. So someone rides a horse, uh, and the horse is moving or standing still and they're like doing actual tricks and gymnastics or maybe they're twirling fire.

I don't know. I've seen, I think probably clips I didn't of, of, of a world where someone's like doing that on a bike. I didn't know if that was the reality you were living in.

Uh,

[00:38:48] Keith Hutchison: I haven't, I don't think I've seen that, but you know. Who's to say it hasn't. 'cause you know, when there's a big crowd, you don't know everything that's going on.

Um, I will say it's probably gonna be tough for someone to do that in the middle of Bike Party 'cause we are fairly dense. It doesn't move very fast. Okay.

[00:39:04] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:39:04] Keith Hutchison: Like it's, especially when it gets big, like it goes fast in the summer 'cause we're cold or in the winter because we're cold and we want to get to the end, the tipping spot, typically there's a fire at the end too, so, um, we want to get there as quickly as possible.

Yeah. But, um, um, but in the winter, yeah, or in the summer, it's, it's not going any faster than eight miles an hour.

[00:39:28] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. How long is the average Bike Party, like? Uh, distance?

[00:39:33] Keith Hutchison: Distance? Uh, we try in the summers we try to keep it no more than 12, um, miles. Miles, uh, in the winter. Uh, maybe we can push it towards 15 in the summer.

Sometimes we'll keep 'em as small as eight. We the longest one in the summer. It is usually August because we have, uh, an ongoing ride that we do with the Velodrome. Um, the major tele velodrome, they put on an exhibition night for us in August. And then, um, we just go up there and they have their, you know, it, it's a great for them to raise a bunch of money in one night, uh, through the concession stand.

And then so they put on exhibition races for us and then, um, but it's, and for the last few years, 30th Street's been closed for the last three years, so just getting up there is probably, and back is probably close to 15 miles. Mm-hmm. Um, 30th Street's open this year, so. We'll, we're, it's all, we're so happy.

[00:40:32] Michael Zarick: Do you guys always start in the same spot?

[00:40:34] Keith Hutchison: No.

[00:40:34] Michael Zarick: Oh, okay.

[00:40:35] Keith Hutchison: We used to, uh, when we started, um, we always started over at City Market, um, and then they closed at free remodel. So we just. We moved around, they opened it back up again. So we went back there, but didn't always go back there.

[00:40:54] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:54] Keith Hutchison: Because we were like, you know, 'cause we were, when we first started, we always started city market and there was no real, and that was like, it was known second Saturday of every second Friday of every month.

Seven city market at 7:00 PM It was, that's, it was always known that that's where it was. That's where we gonna start. And then when they closed it, we, I can't remember if we had a spec. I know we started at Lilly a few times when we came back from COVID. Um, and then we just kind of started moving it around based on where the personal coming up with the route for the month, wanting to start from.

But we try to start and end. We try to start in downtown and if we end outside of downtown, we try to be within a block or two of a greenway. So people can get their selves either back to their car downtown from the, on the, eventually, 'cause everything connects to the Monon. So,

[00:41:42] Michael Zarick: yeah.

[00:41:43] Keith Hutchison: You know,

[00:41:43] Michael Zarick: that makes sense.

[00:41:44] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. So as long as we're, as long we can get you to the Monon and you can get back to your car if you drove, or you know, if you're in Broder, we go home to broad report fountain. I mean, if you're on a bike in Indianapolis and you're riding around, you probably know how to get, we, we assume you know how to get haul.

We, we hope. Yeah. It is a no drop ride. You know, people peel off all the time. We're not gonna like, try to tell you Oh, you have to, you know, there's, there's not a lot of rules

[00:42:09] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:42:09] Keith Hutchison: To Bike Party other than like, don't ride into incoming traffic. If we tell you to stick it to one lane, be

[00:42:15] Michael Zarick: safe,

[00:42:15] Keith Hutchison: stick to the one lane

[00:42:15] Michael Zarick: safe.

All those things. All the, all the like, safety rules.

[00:42:18] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:42:19] Michael Zarick: Uh,

[00:42:20] Keith Hutchison: so

[00:42:21] Michael Zarick: follow up question to the previous question.

Mm-hmm.

[00:42:23] Michael Zarick: What is a third place or space that has existed for you previously that no longer does?

[00:42:32] Keith Hutchison: Um, the place. Would be, there's a physical place that was Pan Am Plaza, which was a cool spot

[00:42:40] Michael Zarick: that's over here.

[00:42:40] Keith Hutchison: It was downtown,

[00:42:42] Michael Zarick: uh, over here, meaning Indianapolis?

[00:42:44] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, it was, it was over an

[00:42:45] Michael Zarick: amorphous over

[00:42:46] Keith Hutchison: here. Yeah, it was over here. It was, um, it was over by kind of near Union Station there. They, it's now the side of a hotel that's being built. But, uh, we would end Bike Party there. And it was another one of those places that if you were on a bike and you were riding around downtown, you'd head over to Pan Am Plaza to kind of see who was around there.

And it was also, there was also a lot of, it was also a skateboarding place. So there's a lot of kids that would come over the years that would go and skate there. I think there's probably there. Yeah, there's an old, there was a, there was a skater from Indianapolis. I always blank on his name. I think his name was Jeff Kendall, that he was, he was in a skate video and he has a few, few places downtown, but some of that was a Pan Am Plaza, if I remember right.

My brother would correct me. He, he was, he's the skater skate. Guru for the city.

[00:43:36] Michael Zarick: Yeah. Any, uh, like places in Colorado that were particularly stand out?

[00:43:41] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. Um, you know, Colorado was so much like outdoorsy. It was every, I mean, well, it was like, it's been so long. Um, I'm trying to think. When I lived in Steamboat Springs, it was more bars like for me, like I, I, uh, there was a lot of youthful activities, so it was a lot of bar type stuff.

Um, I did hang out when I lived, I lived in Colorado Springs for, my last stint in Colorado was in Colorado Springs. And, um, there was like some parks and stuff that were cool. And I did eventually, that's when I first discovered like the social side of bicycling more so is like, they had a night, a weekly, uh, Thursday night pub crawl that I started going to.

And that's kind of, I, and that was kind, I saw that in Colorado Springs and I saw what was happening here and I was like, oh. Um, but yeah. It's mostly that kind of thing or you know, I don't go to concerts anymore. I think, um, it was kind of that like punk, I used to go to like, you know, I came up through the punk rock and hardcore scene and go to shows like that.

[00:44:47] Michael Zarick: I feel like that checks out.

[00:44:48] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, a lot of the, you'll find a lot of the people that are involved in this kind of thing came up in that kind of DIY punk rock hardcore scene or whatever came after that, like post, post hardcore. Like I would go to a lot of shows like that and, um, I was never a great skateboarder, but in Colorado, Colorado I would go to the skate parks there 'cause they had like bowls.

And there is that sense of community, especially if you go there at the right time, it's just a bunch of like thir. I was in my thirties, you know, just a bunch of 30-year-old people hanging around, egging each other on at the skate park or cheering each other on, not egging, but like cheering each other on.

[00:45:25] Michael Zarick: Definitely.

[00:45:25] Keith Hutchison: But, you know, that kind, those just kind of, those spaces. Like I, I am into this idea. I, I've always been kind of someone like. It doesn't have to be a permanent space, it could just be a one-time deal kind of thing. You know, like there's just, I feel like spaces and events can kind of be the same thing at times and as an event or a happening, I guess is the word they used to use.

Yeah. Like a happening can be a space. I think Bike Party has a happening aspect to it too, you know,

[00:45:54] Michael Zarick: so like, oh, we always talk about, uh, this idea of like third spaces evolving over time, like maybe Bike Party 10 years from now is different than Bike Party 10 years ago. Um, and how does it change over that time?

And that's okay. That it changes.

[00:46:07] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:46:08] Michael Zarick: Um, as long as you're still being, uh, true to whatever you wanna be true to.

[00:46:14] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. You know, I mean, yeah. I think Bike Party definitely has evolved. I mean, we w when we first started, we stopped at every red light. You know, we can't do that by, just by the size of it now, we can't do it.

[00:46:27] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:46:28] Keith Hutchison: You know, it's

[00:46:28] Michael Zarick: becomes, it becomes restrictive.

[00:46:30] Keith Hutchison: Well, and it becomes a hazard for everyone using the roads. Mm-hmm. You know, it's be, I know IMPD may not be the biggest fan of us knowing it, but we'll just, we will block the intersections and get most of the group through or parts of the group through.

Um, we're working on trying to fine tune that to be less impactful on the tra the auto traffic to, you know, it is one night a month though, where bicycles kind and I think, I don't wanna speak, put my mouth somewhere. I shouldn't, but I feel like the city has mostly turned a blind eye to what we do. Um.

Well, I, as far as like they know it's one night, they know that we're not out there causing trouble. We're just out here having fun on bicycles and I'm pretty sure there's a hand a big, some of those officers see us and then make, come to a Bike Party.

[00:47:22] Michael Zarick: Yeah, I've heard of a couple.

[00:47:23] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I

[00:47:23] Michael Zarick: don't know any names.

I just,

[00:47:25] Keith Hutchison: I don't know. I, I, I don't particularly care what you do as long for work if you come to a Bike Party. You know?

[00:47:32] Michael Zarick: Uh, there's also, I would also phrase it also that every other day of the month that cars are, uh, inhibiting your movement as well.

[00:47:39] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:47:39] Michael Zarick: Let me reframe it.

[00:47:40] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, I think that's a, that is true.

I mean, it's goes back to what we were talking about is we're all traffic. Um mm-hmm. But yeah, it's, and the roads, you know, I think we, you mentioned it earlier, like it does feel about how when you first got here, it kind of felt unsafe riding in the city there. It, that's, that is the reality. It is. It can be unsafe, but you have to, you know, once you get more experienced, you can.

Choose how dangerous it's gonna be to some extent.

[00:48:11] Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:11] Keith Hutchison: For you. Like you can, you know, if you're right, sticking to the greenways, you're pretty safe. Yeah, definitely. You know, definitely the only, definitely the only conflict you're gonna come into is at an intersection and those can be challenging sometimes.

That 46th Street and the Monon gets tricky. You know, some

[00:48:25] Michael Zarick: 46th, I would say 16th is really bad.

[00:48:28] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:48:29] Michael Zarick: Uh,

[00:48:30] Keith Hutchison: 16th is, yeah, 16th.

[00:48:31] Michael Zarick: 10th is, 10th is fine. 10th is a good crossing. There's just a couple of spots where you're like, I don't, yeah. People do not stop here.

[00:48:39] Keith Hutchison: I think. I think there, I think Fall Creek in college, the Fall Creek Trail in college gets a little dicey at rush hour sometimes.

Mm. But outside of rush hour, it's not bad. Yeah. And that's the thing too, is it's really not that it's only peak hours that you're really running into conflict at, you know, nap Indianapolis was nickname is Naptown, not because it's sleepy. But there is that aspect to it. Like I'm pretty sure Naptown the nap in Naptown had a different meaning, but I don't know what it is.

I'm pretty sure Wild Style has posted about it on Threads and I can't remember what he said.

[00:49:13] Michael Zarick: Um, so every episode I ask a question from the previous guest. Uh, yesterday's episode was with, or this last week's episode when I released this, uh, was with a woman. Her name was, is Albany Hart or Albany Essence.

Um, and she asks, what are some aspects of a world you want to live in? Wow. That could be a whole show. I ain't got nowhere to be.

[00:49:43] Keith Hutchison: Um, I mean, I, I would like us to be more kind. I think that would be, or at least I think a lot of us are kind. I would like. That kindness to be more centered in the world that we live.

Um, you know, I think that we all have that capacity. I hope we all have that capacity, but, and I think that just, you know, um, that would be a big one. I think, you know, I think this idea of it can be anything, right? What's it, what we wanna see in the world around us, like

[00:50:28] Michael Zarick: she said, elements of a world you want to live in.

I think kindness is an element.

[00:50:32] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I think that, I think, I think kind of like, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily, I think getting away from like this, I don't wanna sound like an advocate, but I think getting, I, a world I would would've live in would be less car centered, less automobile centered.

[00:50:51] Michael Zarick: You're

allowed

[00:50:51] Keith Hutchison: to say that. I, I, I think that, I think that a combination of, um. Getting people out of their cars, not only just for the environment sake, you know, whatever, but just for our own physical and mental health, getting us out of our boxes and into the world is we're not meant to be in these little boxes.

Mm-hmm. I don't think, you know, and I think that getting back to that aspect of, uh, nature, for lack of a better word, I think there's a better word to, but, you know, I think that, that I would like to see a less car-centric world. And part of, we built our, we built this world to be car-centric, you know? Well, we, this world was built to be car-centric by the people that came before us who may have not realized how dreadful the impact actually was gonna be.

I, I, I, I would like to think that they thought that. I would like to think that their hearts were in the right place when they built the, the world, the way it is now, as far, at least in this part of the world, at least in the United States. And you drop down to Indiana and you drop down to the Indianapolis metro area.

You know, we've got this, and you can kind of see it the way it was built before World War ii, here in the center city, sidewalks grid. Um, we had the tra trolley system back then. We had the interurban between towns, like going back to that kind of world. That's the world I would want to live in. Um, I would also, I mean, if we're going, if it's a buffet shoot, I'd kind of like to see us get away from social media, some too like that.

Or

[00:52:35] Michael Zarick: you can keep listing them. I don't know.

[00:52:37] Keith Hutchison: Like this is, I, you know, like this is like, I think that we're, and I, it, the irony is this is going into a screen. But we're so invested in our screen sometimes.

[00:52:48] Michael Zarick: Well, there's, I would say that, um, I'm glad you said that. So there's like, I would call Instagram and like the vehicle in which I share these conversations.

Mm-hmm. But these conversations are also inherently, um, subversive in, in that way where it's like I'm still sitting down to have a conversation with someone over the course of an hour, which is not entirely common. Right. You know, people aren't just like, randomly, I don't reaching out to random people like, Hey, do you wanna sit down for an hour and just like, talk Yeah.

About you. Um, so it's just sort of a vehicle for sharing that conversation. Um, you know, it's not ideal. Maybe in the ideal world we had 50 people show up today and they could join together. Um, but um, in a way it's sort of a way to share that you can still do this. Yeah. To hopefully reach the world where you're able to get off social media.

[00:53:38] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I think I don't necess, I, well I think that I. I was on Friendster when Friendster came up. You know, I was on, I I'm, I'm, I'm a product of MySpace, you know, I was there and, I mean,

[00:53:51] Michael Zarick: well, you were a punk rock kid, so you definitely were on MySpace.

[00:53:53] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, and I, I mean, I was one of those Gen X people that was on MySpace.

Like we were, you know, I have one foot firmly in an analog world and one foot firmly in a digital world. You know, like I, I have straddled, I, uh, born being born by virtue of being born when I was, I'm one of those people that has, has straddled that wor those two worlds. And I see the, I mean, in the nineties the internet was like this promising it's gonna change the world for the better.

And now in 2020, whatever, I'm like, I don't, we were kind of wrong. And I, but I still think it like to point, I think on, I think

[00:54:30] Michael Zarick: on average it has, I

[00:54:31] Keith Hutchison: think

[00:54:31] Michael Zarick: it's hard to, it's hard to, we hyper folk fixate on negative stuff.

[00:54:34] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, you're right. Um, and I think that, I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the sum of human knowledge is contained on the.

I mean ar between Wikipedia and archive.org, you know, I mean, this is a tangent, but you know, it's just, you know, when I was a kid, I would have to go to the library and look at World Book or Encyclopedia Britannica and that's all on this now. And that to me, that is freaking amazing. Like, so I will, I will backtrack a little, but I still think the social media, the algorithms, the way they put what eng engage, I think the idea of engagement, what, what, what traffics and what pushes engagement is dangerous, I think, or the way the algorithms push the rage.

That's the part I'm talking about. Like that is what I would like to see us get away from. And I, you know, I don't, I don't know, I don't spend a lot of time on social media anymore because I find myself getting, I mean, I'm on Reddit, it's not. And I,

[00:55:40] Michael Zarick: I browse the Indianapolis subreddit sometimes just 'cause I like to see what people are thinking about.

[00:55:44] Keith Hutchison: I was a mod on that for a

while.

[00:55:45] Michael Zarick: Oh really? And I, I, I'm never, uh, impressed. That's sort of the, the short of it.

[00:55:50] Keith Hutchison: It's, yeah. Reddit is Reddit it, and again, it's another one of those things. It's like that whole Cory Docs and ification idea, like Reddit has definitely gotten ified since in the last 10 years.

Um, but it's, there's still moments of like, awesomeness on it. Mm-hmm. You know, like, uh, I saw something that, I can't remember what it was, but I saw something today that just like, oh, this is like truly heartwarming. You know? And that's why I still engage with social media. 'cause it's like, I wanna see pictures of Chihuahuas.

I wanna see pic, you know, I wanna, I wanna show you. I wanna see that picture of your dog in a outfit. You know? That's what the internet was built for.

[00:56:30] Michael Zarick: Yeah.

[00:56:30] Keith Hutchison: To me,

[00:56:31] Michael Zarick: I mean, for sure. I think there's a clear like distinction between like. Internet of like 2007 to 2012 ish.

[00:56:39] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:56:40] Michael Zarick: Uh, and then post that, because I think there's a, and I actually really like TikTok because of this.

'cause I think TikTok emulates a lot of that early internet. Um, because I think YouTube especially has fallen into this sort of like, highly manicured, um, content format.

[00:56:57] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[00:56:57] Michael Zarick: Versus like, TikTok is a little, it's, it's, it's getting to the age where it's now moving away from that. But like Vine, early TikTok.

Mm-hmm. This like very, uh, rough and tumble. Like,

[00:57:10] Keith Hutchison: yeah,

[00:57:11] Michael Zarick: I'm just doing this. 'cause I think it's kind of fun type thing.

[00:57:13] Keith Hutchison: That was, I mean, that's how like the early years of Instagram, it was like that too. And like all those, a lot of those early, I mean, what was it? Um, we lost so much when Flash was deep. Like,

[00:57:26] Michael Zarick: you really are, you really are an early internet guy.

[00:57:29] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I mean, I, well, I, I mean, I, yeah, I was an, I I was that kid that like, walked up and down the roads to get cans to save, to buy a computer. That's kind of kid. That's awesome. You know, that was like, that was, yeah. But, um, I am, yeah. The internet. I, I've spent a lot of time on the internet. That's chill. It was too much.

[00:57:51] Michael Zarick: Who does it in the year? 2026?

[00:57:53] Keith Hutchison: Yeah. I was, but I always, like, I knew what was coming and I was like, the world was, I wanted all that information I wanted to see and that was like, you know, a kid stuck in Indiana pouring through encyclopedias and then this thing pops up that, and connects you with people around the world is just freaking amazing.

Mm-hmm. You know, at the time, like, and now we take it for granted, it's like, oh, I can talk to this dude in Europe through WhatsApp or whatever. Is it WhatsApp? Is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. WhatsApp, you know, so it. It's just amazing how interconnect, like we are so more interconnected now than we were in 1996. You know?

It's amazing. That aspect of it is just completely amazing. Definitely. And we've used it, I mean, kind of to circle a little bit back is that is, you know, to get the word out about what it is that we do with the bicycle stuff, like Bike Party, you know, we used Facebook only for years and moved into Instagram and we still, like with my, the gentle folks stuff, that's how we communicate with people for the most part is, hey, we've got something happening.

Come to this. Um, and a lot of people use it that way. It'd be nice to find a platform that's maybe not whatever, but that's what we have to use right now. But it is, it is, it is a tool and a useful tool.

[00:59:10] Michael Zarick: Yeah. They always, I go to Creative Mornings on, uh. I think it, is it the last Friday of the month, whatever, Friday of the month.

Uh, and they always, at the beginning, they're like, share, uh, share about creative mornings on whatever billionaire own platform you prefer. It's like, um, and I always like, think that's funny. Keith, is there anything else you wanna talk about today?

[00:59:37] Keith Hutchison: Was there anything else? It's

[00:59:38] Michael Zarick: okay if not.

[00:59:39] Keith Hutchison: Um, yeah, I don't know.

I think, I mean, I could, if you gave me a i you prod me and I'm sure I could, I'm a talker. I'm one of those weird guys that I'll go home and say nothing for hours and then you, but you wind me up and there we go. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. I, I just, I want, I, I guess I would like love to see more people on bikes.

Uh, I think Indianapolis is actually a bicycle city. Um, we're not quite like. Portland or Minneapolis yet, but we're on our way as far as if you know anything about cycling in the United States, like those are the cities that people will talk about that have strong bicycle cultures. And I think that Indianapolis has a very strong and vibrant and growing bicycle culture that, um, I just wanna see keep growing, you know?

And I'm glad to have had what part I've had in helping grow it. And it, you know, because I, I'm, I don't know if Clif did this to you, but Clif,

[01:00:45] Michael Zarick: Clif does a lot of things to me.

[01:00:47] Keith Hutchison: And like Clif goes around telling people I like founded Bike Party.

[01:00:52] Michael Zarick: He does. That's part of the reason I reached out.

[01:00:54] Keith Hutchison: And I, he does that 'cause he knows it irritates me.

I did not, I wanna go on the record that I did not found Bike Party. Uh, I, it was, it was these two gentlemen named Matt Martin and, uh, Jordan King. Jordan hasn't been involved in years. There's a few of us that have been there since the beginning, but it's always like a constantly rotating crew. Like, we've sent people to other cities and people have left, been involved with Bike Party, moved out to say Denver and gotten involved with like, like one of our, one of the women that helped us, uh, Aaron went out to Denver and got super involved in this group called Femmes and Thems, which is a bicycle club for, I mean,

[01:01:32] Michael Zarick: Femmes and Thems

[01:01:32] Keith Hutchison: and thems.

Yeah. And, um, and you know, that's kind of going back to like with Indy Bike Friends, it's kind of that same theme. Uh, it, you know, it's like, like female women, uh, people. Um. Riding bikes together, you know? Um, and I think that's, I think it's a good thing. I think we need that space, those spaces. Like I think, I think there's space for everyone in the bicycle scene.

Like I think the bicycle culture is open and big and we're here for whatever you want to do. And it's also very DIY. If you want to do something in the bike culture with a bicycle, go out and do it and tell people about it. And you'll have people that will show up and do it. You know, it may just be one or two, but they'll show up and do it again.

And maybe two more of people. If it's something you wanna do, just it's open for anybody though it, it's open.

[01:02:22] Michael Zarick: Yeah. I think we get hung up on, uh, having a lot of people show up, but one or two is all you need to build a community.

[01:02:28] Keith Hutchison: Man. My fir the first rides I ever put on, like three people showed up and we still had a blast.

Yeah. You know, like three or four. And it grew from there, you know. And same with Bike Party. You know, the first year we had 50 people every summer, and now we have. Probably, well this summer will probably be over a thousand, you know, it's insane. You know, there's a, that trope of if you, if you build it, they will come. But it's, it's true. It is. It it, I didn't, you know, this has been the most, being a part of this has been probably the, other than like, you know, I have a couple of adult stepsons and have been with them since they were young.

But outside of that kind of thing, this has probably been the most fulfilling thing I've ever done. Is helping, helping be part of and create this and help shift and grow this bicycle culture in this city is just, it's, it's great. And I think, I don't want to get in the, the, let the advocates be the advocates, but, um, it is important.

It is important for everyone's mental health and their physical health, uh, for us to get out here on bicycles or whatever it is. But I'm, I'm on a bike, so I'm just say it's on bicycles.

[01:03:38] Michael Zarick: Cool. One last question. What question would you like to ask?

[01:03:42] Keith Hutchison: I knew you were gonna ask that.

[01:03:43] Michael Zarick: The next Third Space Indy guest.

[01:03:46] Keith Hutchison: well, you know what, since I am kind of outdoorsy, what is your favorite outdoor space, whether it's third or otherwise, but outdoor in this area?

[01:04:01] Michael Zarick: This area? Just anywhere,

[01:04:02] Keith Hutchison: like in, in, let's say Marion County.

[01:04:04] Michael Zarick: Sure.

[01:04:05] Keith Hutchison: You know, I think, I don't, has that been asked before?

[01:04:07] Michael Zarick: Kind of.

[01:04:08] Keith Hutchison: Oh,

[01:04:08] Michael Zarick: that's it. You're allowed to repeat. I don't, I don't, I got no rules.

[01:04:11] Keith Hutchison: Okay. I, I, um. Yeah, sure. Why not?

[01:04:16] Michael Zarick: I think people also, like, it doesn't matter if you ask the same question because you're asking a different person.

[01:04:22] Keith Hutchison: Yeah, exactly.

[01:04:22] Michael Zarick: And different people have different

[01:04:23] Keith Hutchison: opinions.

Yeah, I think, I think I like to hear that

[01:04:26] Michael Zarick: until they all say the Monon and that happens, but whatever.

[01:04:29] Keith Hutchison: Oh, okay. Addendum. You can't say the Monon.

[01:04:33] Michael Zarick: Well throw it in. Well, uh, thanks for coming on, Keith. Yeah. I really appreciate you sitting down. Uh, technically our first live episode, we had a couple of people sitting and watching for a bit, um, where if you want to be found, can the people find you?

[01:04:48] Keith Hutchison: I'm more of a lurker, but, uh, I do have an Insta, a private Instagram account, but if I see that you follow people, I know I'll approve it. Uh, lost_midwest, I'm also lost underscore Midwest on Threads, uh, and Blue Sky. I think I'm on blue sky. I don't, I don't do the, I don't do Twitter. I, and. I am on Facebook as Keith Hutchison, but I'm, I'm not, I don't really frequent Facebook much.

Uh, I am a lurker though. If you contact me, I'll, I'll see it. Um,

[01:05:23] Michael Zarick: you were very responsive, more responsive than the average person.

[01:05:26] Keith Hutchison: Oh, you texted me. I

[01:05:27] Michael Zarick: I, I did text you. That's kind of too,

[01:05:29] Keith Hutchison: I'm not, I'm not giving people my phone number.

[01:05:31] Michael Zarick: Um, if I were interested in coming to Bike Party, how would I figure that out?

[01:05:37] Keith Hutchison: Uh, it is on Facebook as Bike Party, Indy, uh, and Instagram. Also Instagram is Bike Party Indy also, I actually

[01:05:45] Michael Zarick: don't remember.

[01:05:46] Keith Hutchison: Let me, I'm gonna double check.

[01:05:47] Michael Zarick: It'll be in the show notes.

[01:05:48] Keith Hutchison: It'll be in show notes, but it's either Bike Party Indy or Bike Party. Indianapolis. Um, I think we even ha we had a website, but I don't know what it is.

Uh,

[01:05:56] Michael Zarick: I didn't know There's a website.

[01:05:58] Keith Hutchison: It redirects to the Facebook page.

[01:05:59] Michael Zarick: Oh, okay.

[01:05:59] Keith Hutchison: We wanted to because we, I mean, yeah, but it we're, if you just search bike, bike, party, I actually, I did it tonight. Bike today, Bike Party. One word. Indianapolis or Indy. Just throw it into your search engine and you'll find it.

Um, that's,

[01:06:12] Michael Zarick: that's

[01:06:12] Keith Hutchison: it. I know we're on Facebook and Instagram. We

[01:06:13] Michael Zarick: live in the internet age.

[01:06:14] Keith Hutchison: Yeah.

[01:06:15] Michael Zarick: And you'll find your way

[01:06:16] Keith Hutchison: or, you know, come to Highland Park, you'll probably find one of us.

[01:06:20] Michael Zarick: Um, hey, thanks for watching or listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. You can find me at Third Space Indy, uh, on Instagram or by going to Third Space Indy dot com.

Thank you as always to Mark Latta of cityrising.org for sponsoring the podcast. And thank you as always to the local artist Jennasen, for allowing me to use your song. Scared Rabbit. And shout out to my good friend, Anderson York, the Indy bench mench for providing your beautiful benches for our seating arrangements today here at Highland Park.

Uh, thanks for watching. Goodbye.