Ep. 50 - Nigel Long - DJ Grapevine
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Episode Summary
Nigel Long is a DJ, community organizer, and lifetime Indianapolis native known as DJ Grapevine. Michael sits down with Nigel at the Cloud Underground studio inside Morning Star a part of Flanner House in Northwest Side of Indy. Michael and Nigel talk about Black joy in Indianapolis, the origins of Grapevine, and why community is always work worth doing.
Sponsors:
City Rising (cityrising.org)
Proformus Urban Planning & Design
Intro music:
Scared Rabbit by Jennasen
Timestamps
0:44 — Intro
1:56 — Who is DJ Grapevine?
3:03 — Growing up in Devington
5:28 — Flanner House and historically Black neighborhoods
7:17 — The origins of Grapevine
13:42 — Community investment without government support
14:06 — Music and his grandfather's influence
23:32 — Gang Gang and his role in Indianapolis
24:32 — Black: A Festival of Joy
30:22 — The Brick by Brick Campaign
36:36 — Canned questions
Episode Transcript
Nigel Long
Nigel Long: [00:00:00] I think, this city, man, just deserves so much more than what it gets from our politicians, from the people that run the city secretly or not secretly, and so yeah, I think the city's great at , I think someone said it at the last Creative Mornings. It's like the city's great at being hosts to other people, but we can't really figure out how to, like, be hospitable to the people that live here.
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick. This is Third Space Indy. In 1989, a man named Ray Oldenburg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he coined the term third place. This outlines a place outside of your work and outside of your home that you can be...
That you can go be with others, be yourself, and build community. so I've made it my goal to [00:01:00] find people all over Indianapolis who are doing their very best to create these types of spaces. Today, I'm joined by somebody who I came across by pure chance, sort of-
uh, showing up to a community event called Creative Mornings. He was the, the key speaker that day, that month. Uh, and he said a few things that really captured my attention as somebody who is deeply integrated in community in his own way. he's a musician, a DJ, somebody who's building, Black joy here in Indianapolis-
Nigel Long: Definitely
Michael Zarick: and, uh, somebody who is really proud to call himself a Hoosier, I think, right here in Indianapolis. Yeah,
Nigel Long: you got
Michael Zarick: it. Uh, so today I'm joined by none other than Nigel Long, DJ Grapevine. Oh, Uh, how you doing,
Nigel Long: Nigel? I turned my ringer off. I'm good, man. How are you? I'm
Michael Zarick: doing really well.
Nigel Long: Thank you for, um, having me on today. I appreciate you, man.
Michael Zarick: Absolutely.
Nigel Long: Yeah, man.
Michael Zarick: Uh, so in your own words, for people who may not know who you are, tell me who you are. Man. Tell me who DJ Grapevine and anything like that is.
Nigel Long: Oh, of course. [00:02:00] Man, no, I appreciate you. Um, yeah, I would say I'm a, um, lifetime Naptown lover.
Uh, I've lived here my whole life. I'm a DJ. Um, I feel like I'm a cultivator and curator of people, so I love bringing people together in different ways. Um, and yeah, I think I'm, you know, the last thing about me is I'm just unapologetically Black in, in all ways. You know, I try to, um, you know, just kinda live with that as a center of life, you know?
Um, and not necessarily in a way that is offensive or that is, uh, like you can't be a part of it, but just understanding and realizing like the power that Black people have, um, and the creativity that they've been able to exude, you know, throughout American history and the history of the world. So yeah, man.
Definitely. I
Michael Zarick: hope that
Nigel Long: that makes sense.
Michael Zarick: so actually what part of town are you from?
Nigel Long: Man, um, [00:03:00] so I grew up like, um, like bo- like over like Devington area. Uh-huh. So like behind Arlington High School. Um- Yeah ... it's kinda like where I grew up, between 46th and 56th Street,
Michael Zarick: over in that area. Yeah. And your dad's a pastor over on College.
Definitely. College and Fall Creek.
Nigel Long: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Da- What's the name of the church?
Nigel Long: Metropolitan Missionary Baptist Church at 28th and Sutherland. But yes, right off of College.
Michael Zarick: Definitely. Was, like, church a huge part of your childhood?
Nigel Long: Oh, I didn't really have a choice. Yeah, for sure. And, uh, it absolutely was. Um- Definitely
and yeah, I mean, it d- definitely was a part of the growing, um... I think my dad's a person, you know, when we think about, like, what community is or, like, you know, like, he's, like, one of those, like, like, actual pastors, you know? I think there's a lot of people that, like, um, it's easy to just, like, go to a mega church where the pastor doesn't know your name- Mm-hmm
or, like, where, you know, you might call, like, some assistant or, you know, whatever. But, like, my dad, I've, like, for 31 years, I've watched him be, like, a real pastor. Yeah. So, you know, [00:04:00] it's- You
Michael Zarick: mentioned when I first came across you that he would, like, call people at 3:00 AM and be like, "How you, how you doing?"
Nigel Long: Oh, yeah. No, I mean, like, yeah, yeah. He's a legit... Yeah, so, like, you know, people would call him to find, you know, whatever, whatever it was, you know? Like, somebody died or passed, someone got locked up, uh, you know, whatever the case may be, you know? Or anything, showing up at school for different, you know, different members, all kind of stuff, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, he's a... Yeah, and just actually doing it and to see someone that does it and doesn't necessarily do it for the, like, fanfare or, like, what they get out of it, just because it's, like, what they should be doing, you know? Yeah. Or, like, how they feel like they should show up in space. Definitely.
Michael Zarick: most important Midwest question I can ask you, what was your high school?
Nigel Long: I went to Shortridge High School.
Michael Zarick: Oh, yeah. Let's go.
Nigel Long: Shortridge Magnet High School for Law and Public Policy at the time, and since, you know- Yeah ... IPS has changed since 2013 when I graduated. Uh, so now it's just Shortridge. But yeah, I mean- Mm ... Shortridge's the oldest public high [00:05:00] school in the state actually.
Um, and yeah, um, graduated in 2013, and yeah, it's part of my... Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I didn't realize we were so close in age. I don't know what I thought you were, but yeah, we're the same or- You
Nigel Long: think I was older or younger?
Michael Zarick: Yeah, older.
Nigel Long: You thought I was older than
Michael Zarick: you? Or you're barely older than me. I'm 30. You're 31. Oh, yeah,
Nigel Long: yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'll be 32. Yeah. No, definitely, bro. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um-
Nigel Long: I'm not that old.
Michael Zarick: So the other thing that really captured me about, uh, when we first talked, um, you mentioned Flanner House. One of the buildings of Flanner House we're sitting in right now. What's the name of this room?
Nigel Long: Morning Star. So this room- We're, we're in the room Morning Star
this room is... Uh, no. So this room is called the Cloud Underground, and it's a studio- Uh-huh ... space, curated by one of my good friends, uh, Dr. Austin Ashford. Um-
Michael Zarick: Well, give him a shout. He's sitting- Yeah, yeah ... right in the room with us.
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he, he, he does all the programming and stuff out of here.
But yeah, I wanted to do the interview here 'cause, I mean, obviously it's a cool ass space. But then- Yeah ... um, yeah, I, you know, my [00:06:00] dad grew up over on this side of town. And it's more so, I think Flanner House is like a, a, a vessel, right? You know? But I think more importantly, I think this neighborhood, Riverside, Martindale Brightwood, like, they're some of the few remaining, like, historically Black neighborhoods- Mm-hmm
that we have that still, where Black people still live. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They're still- Definitely ... you know, and so, um, yeah. I mean, I've, uh, my dad grew up over here. I still have family that lives in this, in this neighborhood. And so, um, you know, it's always been important to me, you know, to, y- you know, uh, not only just be here and do different things within the community, but also, uh, do things to try to attract and bring younger people to this neighborhood, just to see the value of it.
You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, we, we deserve things in places where we can gather and have fun and be safe. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, Flanner House, for the last five years has been the home of, uh, Grapevine, which is, like, one of the [00:07:00] signature events that I do through Sound Off. Um, but yeah, it's a first Friday event.
It started as, like, me just, like, wanting to DJ, really.
Michael Zarick: I think that's such a funny, like, origin story. You're like, "Man, I need to make my own DJ gigs." You're like, "How, how do I do this?" Yeah. And you do it in the, the hardest way possible, which is just, like, make a massive community event. Uh, it didn't
Nigel Long: start out as massive.
And it probably didn't start massive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was honestly, honestly, it was, uh... Man, like I said, I wanted to DJ. I, I always have had an affinity for, like, local hip hop music here too. Mm-hmm. And always have, uh, felt like it's, especially during that time, it felt like it wasn't getting the shine.
Like, obviously we have things like Chreece, you know, but that happens once a year.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: And so how... You know, I was trying to work through how to, like, get local music in front of people, right? You know? Also didn't have anyone book, like, banging down my door to book me to DJ. Yeah. And so I was like, "All right," like, [00:08:00] "Let's do something where...
All right," like, "No one's gonna come see me DJ, so, like, if I tell people to come and sell some of their stuff," you know what I mean, "around here-" Yeah ... "then, like, they'll bring their friends," and so it kinda really just kinda transformed from there. But it was, like, really born out of, like, you know, this would've been, like, September of 2020.
September, Oc- you know, like, late 2020, so, like, people were just starting to get back outside.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: S- everyone was still masked, you know, still wearing masks, still doing social distancing. But this was, like, just kind of an opportunity for us to, like, decompress, take a break and breathe. But also giving people an opportunity to sell their products and things and art and, you know.
So yeah, man, it's... Yeah. But this neighborhood, Flanner House, uh, you know, Brandon Cosby, Doc- um, the exec direct- the executive director here was my high school principal, you know? Oh, really? So he was one of my principals in high school.
Michael Zarick: I
Nigel Long: actually didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. So it made it, it made it very [00:09:00] easy to come and, like, do things, and then also just having an affinity for this neighborhood.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. You know? So when you talk about the sort of disinvestment of Black neighborhoods or lack thereof, disinvestment implies there was ever an investment, I guess.
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Uh, and you talk about, like, creating this beautiful community event that I still have yet to attend because it got rained out last time.
Yeah,
Nigel Long: yeah.
Michael Zarick: Or I guess cooled out. It was
Nigel Long: too cold.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, it was too cold. Um, like, how do you feel about being a catalyst sort of, of this community investment that's not driven by, uh, government? You know what I mean? Like, you're the one sort of driving things out of sort of local level, almost like mutual aid- Mm-hmm
not really, but in a way.
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, uh, it was... Uh, I mean, I don't think it's anything special. I think, you know, we, we wanna do things in our commu- you know, we just wanna have fun. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I mean, like, obviously there's the, like, uh, the negative parts of, uh, of the [00:10:00] disinvestment, you know what I'm saying?
But, and like how, um, you know, things don't get funded, and I, I think that's a larger conversation for sure. Uh, but my answer to that question would be, I think, man, like, just wanting to be and do, it doesn't necessarily have to do with, like, anything that came after it. Like, when I was setting out to do it, it never was about that.
It was about, man, like, I really just wanna do something for 25 to 35-year-olds to be able to come be together where it is on purposely Black, in a Black place, at a Black community center, you know? And, like, just being un- unapologetic about that. So I wasn't, I don't think it was never like, "Oh, it's gonna become this big thing," or, "Oh," like, uh, you know?
'Cause obviously, like, yes, we could be funded or we could take money, but I think, you know, sometimes when those things happen, you know, it takes away... You know, or sp- or we could get a bunch of sponsors. Like, I, I can do those things, right? Mm-hmm. But I think it takes away from [00:11:00] the ability for it to exist and just be something that people can just do and come to.
I don't- I- I hope that makes sense. No. I know I just
Michael Zarick: talked a really long time. That was a great answer. I also wanna, like, hype you up a little bit, 'cause... So I organized a, a 13-mile walk a couple weeks ago.
Nigel Long: Jesus.
Michael Zarick: Uh, it was great. We had a good number of people- That's
Nigel Long: like a marathon.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, it was a w- marathon walk, basically.
Okay, okay. Or a half-marathon. Um, and I was, like, feel... Like, I had 50 people show up, which is an amazing thing for a first-time event.
Nigel Long: Uh-huh.
Michael Zarick: Um, and I was texting my brother about it, and I was like, "Yeah, it was good." I was like, "I feel pretty good about it." He goes, "You should really, like, hype yourself up-
because the amount of people who organize anything- Yes ... ever is, like, minuscule." So for you to have this five-year-long running beautiful event that happens monthly in the m- the warm months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In summer, in summer. Um, I think you should really, like, pat yourself on the back for that. Whether or not you feel like that it's successful or not, but I, I personally feel it is.
Nigel Long: No, it i- Yeah ... I mean, it, it is. I think it's just, I think, like, some of these things, like, feel like, though, they're just what you're supposed to be doing as a [00:12:00] creative, as a person that cares about community, as a person that enjoys, um, innovation and cool shit. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm a DJ, right?
So it's like, yes, there's this community mindset, right? Or that's the backbone that definitely I got from my dad. But, like, there's also this, like, just person that, you know, just wants to create cool experiences for people to be able to come enjoy. Yeah. And so, like, yeah. Like, it-- But it's, it's fun. Like, bringing people together is one of the, one of the things that brings me so much joy.
You know what I'm saying? Like, and just, uh, you know, there's always those moments at ev- each event where, you know, you can just walk around and, like, kinda see just things, people, you know, doing their thing, buying stuff, selling stuff. Uh, people listening to music, people dancing. You know, like, when it's like, "Okay, we've gotten to this point, and no matter how stressful it was, but, like, man, like, look at how m- look at w- how much joy this is bringing other people.
Look how much fun people are having." Mm-hmm. You know? And so, um, and that could be at an event like Grapevine. That could be at, you know, some of the DJ events that I curate and [00:13:00] create. Mm-hmm. That could be, uh, you know, the past five years that we've been creating with Black Joy. I think all the, you know, like, just creating that space where people can just come together and enjoy each other, and time, and music, and food, all that stuff.
Like, that stuff
is dope.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. There's a, there's a sound that I love, which is... I don't know that I can describe it well. But it's basically, um, nondescript talking.
Nigel Long: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: But, like, loud. When you're in a space full of people- who are having a good time, that is just, like- ... an overwhelming sound of conversation- that I, like, really love, and I think that's probably something that gets you going, too.
Nigel Long: Yeah.
Absolutely.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: That's, that's interesting.
Michael Zarick: Um,
I wanna talk a little bit about music. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you are a DJ. Of course. You talk about being interested in the local hip hop scene. Um, you named yourself DJ Grapevine- ... partially because of your grandfather and talking about his influence on your life. So, like, maybe go back to the beginning. Like, how is music integrated into your life, and then how [00:14:00] are you sort of carrying that out now?
Nigel Long: Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. Like, this is a long answer,
Michael Zarick: but- Like, bro, we got time Uh,
Nigel Long: nah, I think, uh, music's just always been, you know what I'm saying, a core part of my life. Like, I played the drums at church from, like, as young as I can remember, like maybe five or six or seven.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: You know what I mean? Like, in that age.
Do
Michael Zarick: you get any drummer boy jokes?
Nigel Long: Oh, yeah. I mean- ... like, yeah, it's just ki- you know, yeah. But I, I think even with that, right, like... Or, like, you know, my mo- my parents made me s- do the choir up until I was a certain age. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and so, like, but a lot of my, like, taste in music was, um, you know- W- I didn't really get to listen to a lot of secular music when I was younger.
Mm-hmm. And that's not, I think, like... And obviously, like, you know, they... My dad's a pastor, so it was just like, that's just what they would listen to. I don't blame them. It's not, you know? But, you know, when I would go to, like, cousins' houses or when I would go to my grandpa's house or anything, and I would just get a little [00:15:00] taste of, like, things that weren't necessarily gospel music.
And I mean, mind you, like, it wasn't just like, you know, it's like gospel music. Like, and I, like, and mind you, I think gospel music is the core to, like, so many other part... Like, you know, even today, right? Like, all the you know, like, the choir, like, all that shit, all that stuff comes from somewhere, right? You know what I mean?
Yeah. And so, like, just like with a lot of other people that grew up in the church, like, it's an inspiration. You know what I'm saying? And so, but I didn't necessarily get to listen to a lot of music. I would have my cousins, um, one of my cousins, Dominique, she would, uh, burn me CDs- ... that would have, uh- Like
Michael Zarick: Limewire.
Nigel Long: Yeah, man. Like-
Michael Zarick: Wait, didn't you say that your grandfather learned about Limewire from you or something?
Nigel Long: Yeah. Yeah. He did. I did. I taught... Yes. That's funny. Well, I tried to teach him how to use Limewire, and then I ended up, uh... But, but one of my cousins would always burn, burn me CDs. Um, and so that was, like, the first, like, mu- you know, hip hop.
My dad used [00:16:00] to always, like, the only non-secular music that he would like listen to was, like, Run-DMC- Mm ... and, like, the Sugarhill Gang. Mm-hmm. And so, like, like, you know, like, those were the... And that's not, like, again, that was just what he grew up on. And so- Yeah ... it, uh... But then I had a cousin that would burn me these CDs, and I would just listen, get to listen to, you know, hip hop.
Fell in love with hip hop. You know, um, my grandpa, again, like I s- he, like you kinda said, like, I would, he would have me, um, essentially burning him CDs. He would write down these lists of, of hund- you know, just however many artists of old that he could think of, from Stevie Wonder to The Whispers to The Temptations to Ray Charles.
You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, um, not necessarily by choice, you know, but I ha- I, I got to listen to a lot of music and, like, you know, also talk... You know, he, we would go on these road trips, and he would [00:17:00] have this book full of burnt CDs, and he'd go, "Oh yeah, pass me that Ray Charles one." And we would listen through, and he would talk about, you know, what it was or where he was in the time.
And so, you know, just understanding that that music also, Was so crucial to, like, everything that we hear now, right? Like, even Ray Charles and, you know, like- Mm-hmm ... um, uh, you know, the Temptat- like Motown, like all that stuff was so impactful. And again, they were taking what they got from church and from the choir and, you know, uh, making it secular, and then it was turning into these beautiful things.
But it was still taking church chords, church choir run, like, you know, just like modern R&B is. It's, you know, or not, maybe not modern R&B. The, like, 2000s modern R&B.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: That's
Michael Zarick: what I always liked about, um, one of my f- the... This is, like, very, uh, funny to think about in retrospect. Of course But, like, one of the, my favorite albums is Coloring Book by Chance the Rapper.
Nigel Long: Oh, yeah.
Michael Zarick: And I always loved the sort of [00:18:00] gospel influence that he had in that.
Nigel Long: Yeah, no, for sure. Um- For
Michael Zarick: sure. Can I tell you a really embarrassing music story?
Nigel Long: No, come
Michael Zarick: on. Uh, when I was in middle school, I got an iPod. Okay. And I would listen to Weird Al. And-
Nigel Long: Okay ...
Michael Zarick: a lot of Weird Al songs I heard before the original.
So I thought- I thought Weird Al was just, like, a really talented artist. So, like, I thought Amish Paradise was the original.
Nigel Long: Damn.
Michael Zarick: And then the, I'd never heard of Gangster's Paradise. So, but- Nice Isn't that crazy?
Nigel Long: Yeah. Hey, man. You know. But that's why culture is important.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. That's
Nigel Long: why we gotta... You know, and I think e- even with that, that's crazy, right?
You say that. Um-
Michael Zarick: So how does this all sort of come... Like, where does, where does you wanting to be a DJ come in? Like, what, what is that?
Nigel Long: Uh, man, I had a friend. I w- I've always wanted to, like, do something with music. I've al- I've managed a couple of my friends that were doing music, that were artists, that were [00:19:00] rappers, you know.
Um, I've always just been around it, and I've always had a passion for it. Even back to, like, high school, I was, like, doing talent shows and... Do you know what I mean? Like, and so I've always just wanted to be doing something. I never s- I didn't, I knew that I wasn't the, like, rapper or the singer per se, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm. And so, um, yeah, I was, like, talking to a friend about, like, wanting to try to, like, start doing shows with artists or like, "Hey, like, I wa- really wanna start, um, you know, promoting different things, and I wanna, you know, share." And he was like, "Man, like, so what are you, you know, h- how are you, are you an artist yourself?"
And I was like, "No. Like, no, I'm just wanting to do shows." And, like, well, I'm a... And he was like, "Well, if you're not an- So be, like,
Michael Zarick: a promoter basically. Yeah.
Nigel Long: Yeah. And he was like, "Well, if you're not an artist yourself, um, you can't, like, you'll never, like, you're just taking advantage of people at the end of the day."
And I was like, "Damn, like, that's not what I wanna do. Like, I'm just trying to help." Like, you know what I mean? I just wanna be, you know, art- there's not enough live music happening in the [00:20:00] city at that time. Mm-hmm. And this was five, six, seven years ago at this point. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, um- We had a conversation and he, uh, you know, that conversation really changed the way I thought about things because I was like, man, like I don't wanna be someone that's being extractive from artists.
Like, I wanna just be supportive. And this was before I was doing anything. You know, this is before Grapevine, this is before... Like, I was just, uh, you know, really at that point just, uh, an organizer Yeah ... that was coming off of doing, you know, a lot of, uh, protest stuff. And so, but that's, that's another story, another life.
Um, uh, and so he, he, we had that conversation, man, and it was really cool because, um, after that conversation he was like, "Bro, you should just, you should be a DJ. Like, you, you know all the artists, you know all the music. Like, you wanna share it. Like, you should just, like, share it in this way. Like, you can put it together and then you can share it."
And I was like, "Oh, dang." It really cha- And then he also- So
Michael Zarick: you're kind of doing the promotion aspect of
Nigel Long: like- I wasn't doing [00:21:00] anything.
Michael Zarick: Well, what I'm saying, though, like, let me get there. I
Nigel Long: was
Michael Zarick: trying. You're, you're doing the promotion aspect that you're seeking of, like, hey, I wanna highlight these artists, but rather than gathering them truly in, like, a space to perform, you're like, oh, I'm highlighting them through my work.
Exactly. My, my DJ-ing. Okay.
Nigel Long: Exactly. Exactly. And so then he paid for me to do, like, my first, like, in maybe six months or something, or my first session at Deckademics. Mm-hmm. You know? And- At Deckademics ... it was like, "Hey, like, I, you know, if you really wanna do this, like, I can't buy you the equipment, but, like, look, go do Deckademics.
Nick's cool." That's how I met Nick, or DJ Metrognome. Um, and so I did the classes for a little while. This was, like, right in the middle of the pandemic, though. Um, and so, like, I started and I did it for maybe, maybe six weeks or so. Um, and then the pandemic, like, the pandemic hit, like, where it's like, okay, you can't go anywhere.
And so I just had to end up getting some, like, equipment myself, like little stuff, and, you know, just really started practicing and doing stuff. [00:22:00] Um, and then, uh, yeah, I, I didn't become DJ... It, it's crazy 'cause n- like, I- DJ Grapevine and Grapevine the event, like, that was never, like, necessarily the intention.
But like, yeah, it was, like, all of it kinda happened at the same
Michael Zarick: time. That was the way to get booked.
Nigel Long: After
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: No. So, so yeah, man, and yeah. So I just, yeah. And, you know, DJ Grapevine came from, you know, wanting to share, heard it through the grapevine, you know, like, this whole thing of, like, you know, paying a little bit of homage to my grandfather who had, who had just passed not, not long, not be- not, not s- too, uh, far after that, you know.
And I kinda really took that on and just was like, you know, this, this could be cool, you know? And then, um, you know, it's kinda like double entendre a little bit, like- ... heard it through the grapevine- Yeah ... or, you know, grapevine. What I used to say, and this is so corny thinking about it now, but I used to be like, "Grapevine's got the jams."
Like, like jam. Like, at the [00:23:00] first Grapevine, I think- Dr. Ashford's face is so good right now. I think my mom, uh- I had my mom make jelly, and I think I pa- I, I'm sure there's pictures somewhere of me passing out. We had jelly at the first Grapevine because I was, like, trying to just-
Michael Zarick: I think you should've stuck with it.
Nigel Long: Nah. I mean, look, man. Someone's gotta make the jelly.
Michael Zarick: That's funny.
Nigel Long: So, yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, so-
Nigel Long: I don't think that answered your question, though, but...
Michael Zarick: You're doing great. Don't worry about it. so you now are big shot with Gang Gang.
Nigel Long: Oh my God. Big shot.
Michael Zarick: What's your... What's your exact title?
Nigel Long: Um-
Michael Zarick: Do you, does it even matter to you?
Nigel Long: Yeah. It, it's,
Michael Zarick: Say it loud, say it proud.
Nigel Long: Nah. Um, so right now, , the Director of the Indianapolis Market.
Uh, so yeah. All right. But, um, but yeah, do- the Director of the Indianapolis market. I do a lot of work with, um, you know, just [00:24:00] people. Uh, a lot of, like, just trying to understand what our city needs on the cultural front, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, I've designed a lot of programs and curriculums and-
Michael Zarick: Yeah ...
Nigel Long: you know, all that good stuff.
Michael Zarick: So one of the big programs you're leading is Black: A Festival of Joy and the Brick by Brick funding campaign? Is that what you call it? Yeah,
Nigel Long: yeah,
Michael Zarick: yeah. Um, can you tell me, 'cause I don't fully know, um, and just those listening, like, what Black: A Festival of Joy is?
Nigel Long: Yeah, no, I would love to. Um, yeah, so Black: A Festival of Joy, um, started in 2021.
Um, and it wa- it is a group of maybe... At, at this point it's 14 or 15, but at that point it was, like, 11, um, all leaders of different organizations that were doing different things actively in the community that were brought together by, um, a woman by the name of Pam Ross.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: Um, and she was like, "Hey," like, "I'm, I'm seeing all these cool events that are [00:25:00] happening.
I'm seeing everything that's happening. Um, but nobody's, like, narrating our joy. Nobody's narrating, um, the thing that brings us together that's making us happy." Mm-hmm. Um, too many things are based on, um... And too many things are based on a funding need or a deficit or, like, what we don't have or what we can't do.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: Um, as opposed to just, like, being able to frame it as being something that's done in joy.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: You
Michael Zarick: know? So, like, a lot of expressions of pain versus a lot of expressions of just, like, happiness and togetherness type
Nigel Long: stuff. Yeah. I don't, I don't even necessarily think it als- joy necessarily equates to happiness either, right?
I think joy- I agree with that ... is something that, you know... Joy is the act of, like- It's the feeling that you have after you've gotten through, right? It's the resistance. It's the, it's the, the, um, thing that we hold onto to get us through. And I think Black people have expressed that, you know, time and time again.
You know what I'm saying? Think about, you know, we can talk about slavery, we can talk about civil rights, we can talk [00:26:00] about Jim Crow, we can talk about... You know what I mean? Through all these times, right, like we've constantly just created and made beautiful things over and over and over again. You know what I'm saying?
That the rest of the world, right, not just, not even just like Black people benefit from, like everybody, you know, like, you know, um, benefits from the culture that we have that does a lot of times come from pain or that does a lot of times come from struggle, right? Um, and so being able to tell that story differently I think is so important.
Um, and being able to narrate that experience not just as like, yes, it's this event and it's this beautiful thing that happens once a year, but Black joy happens everywhere. It's been happening s- in Indianapolis... I mean, it's been happening everywhere. Mm-hmm. But even in Indianapolis, right, just specifically here, right?
Like 1955 when Addicks won the, the state championship, the first ever s- all Black state championship, you know, in the country. You know what I mean? Like, it happened [00:27:00] during Black Expo, right? Like, when those years where this was a thing where people traveled from around the country to come to Indianapolis to experience Black togetherness.
You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, we've always had these things going on. Yeah. And I think just-
Michael Zarick: I mean, you could even go further back and talk about Indiana Avenue- Oh, my God, yeah ... and the, the prime time of, like jazz culture here in Indianapolis.
Nigel Long: Um, there's so many stories and iterations, right? And so this is really just trying to like encapsulate that feeling, show it as an expression at the event, but then how are we continuously kinda narrating all of that?
You know what I mean? Um, so- Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: So what is the event exactly? Is it just a, a day of- Is it like a bigger Grapevine? No. I
Nigel Long: mean, that's a, that's an interesting way to describe it. No, I would say it's, uh, it's a f- it's more of a festival. Grapevine I would say is like a kickback. Okay. Grapevine's pretty chill.
Black Joy is a festival, right? Like, so we've went from in 2021 having 1,500 people to all at, uh, and this is all at Riverside Park, right? Yep. Um, all at the Taggart [00:28:00] Memorial, which is a, you know, a $9 million city investment that they put into our neighborhood. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And I think it was important for us to make sure that we're hosting this festival where we're bringing so many pe- people together to celebrate Blackness at a place that- at one time we weren't even necessarily allowed to even be in.
You know what I mean? And so, um,
Michael Zarick: I think- 'Cause isn't, um, not to belabor the point, isn't, um, Belmont Beach sort of the, the foil to Riverside Park in a way?
Nigel Long: Uh, no. No? Uh, well, the foil. Yeah, I
Michael Zarick: guess. When, when you talk about like, oh, they weren't allowed here historically
Nigel Long: or- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely ...
Michael Zarick: you say Belmont Beach is like where we were.
Nigel Long: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Okay ... yes, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, but you gotta think, no, when I'm talking about that, I'm saying like Riverside Park had an amusement park at one point in time. Oh, yeah. Okay. You know what I mean? And Black people could only go on Sundays.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: You know? And so for us to be able to show up 10,000 deep in this place where we do live all around, you know what I'm saying, [00:29:00] um, and that is a community asset, you know what I'm saying, and that is a city resource, like absolutely we should be able to use that and to celebrate, you know, the thing that has kept that neighborhood together for the last 30 years.
You know what I'm saying? Um, and so yeah, man, I think, um, you know, being able to be in the space, right? And again, like there's 10,000-plus people having fun, being safe. The day of is consists of music. We have a lot... You know, we have number of live bands, um, that'll be performing that day. We'll have tons of DJs.
We'll have 20 different food trucks at least. We'll have, um, different activations with different... you know, just different groups. Um, and so yeah, we're super excited. I think right now we've been in this space where, um, you know, when Black Joy first started, it was something that was kinda like funded and like that money wasn't necessarily a question or an issue.
Obviously, [00:30:00] with the way that things have shifted in the last- Two years Yeah. You know what I mean? Like right, like it's dif- it's hard to go and, um, get support for a festival that's talking about Black joy in today's time, right? Yeah. And so, um-
Michael Zarick: Oh, so that's where Brick by Brick comes in. Okay.
Nigel Long: Exactly. I see.
Right. And, and I mean, I think... I mean, I think just that's just where I've been at the last like year and a half is just like in this fundraising space, which is interesting and new, and you learn so much, um, about what people really care about. You know what I mean? Um, I think it's interesting to see. I think there are, uh, institutions and groups here that, that get it, you know what I'm saying, that get that investing in our joy and investing in us, our togetherness, and investing in, um, the way that we collectively move things forward is just as important as, you know, like the things that...
I'm not, I'm not trying to like weigh, you know [00:31:00] what I'm saying, necessarily- Yeah ... but I do think like it's one way of looking at it, right? Like just imagine if our city invested, you know, like what, what do we invest in police? You know what I'm saying?
Michael Zarick: It's
Nigel Long: too much . Over
Michael Zarick: here.
Nigel Long: You
Michael Zarick: know what I'm saying, right?
I, I could say that.
Nigel Long: It's,
Michael Zarick: um- Um, so when you, uh... There's something I've been thinking about a lot recently, which is- this concept of, like, the dissonance people have between what they say they want and what they actually act upon. Mm-hmm. So I, in the con- in the context of my podcast, people go, "I love your podcast."
And then I'll go, "Oh, which episode?" And they'll go, "Oh, I've never actually watched it." "I've just seen the clips." Or, uh, they go, "I wanna see..." Um, or like, "I don't like the way the government is acting right now," but they won't show up to vote. They won't show up to city county build- or, like, um, like, council meetings.
Or they won't show up in, uh, at protests or anything like that. Of course. There's a dissonance between what people say they want and what they actually act upon. Mm-hmm. Do you feel like in the context of the Brick by Brick Campaign, you ever get that sense?
Nigel Long: No. I mean, I think, I think that it [00:32:00] honestly flips that all on its head, right?
Right. Like, in- in my mind, right, like, it gives our community a chance to kinda break away from being beholden to sponsors, funders, philanthropy in, in a way, right? Like, it's like saying, like, "Hey," like, "our community can come together and raise this amount of money." You know, last year we, was our first year doing it, and we were able to raise $13,000- Mm
just with people that are in community, with people that support, with people that want to, and that's not just the, like, brick amount, the, like, 250, 500. You know, like- Yeah ... those are 5 and 10 and $20 supporters that are coming through and saying, "Hey," like, "this is what I have- Yeah ... and I believe in what we're, what you guys are building."
Michael Zarick: Just like a political campaign almost, where it's like, "Oh, I, I'm just giving you what I got," basically.
Nigel Long: Yeah. Yeah, you
Michael Zarick: know- But I believe in what you're doing.
Nigel Long: Yeah, because, I mean, that's the thing is if, you know, at one point in time, like, you know, institutional support divested from what it was that we're doing.
And so I, you know, the Brick by Brick Campaign is our id- [00:33:00] opportunity for the community to say, "No, we want this to continue to happen. This is how we support it." Um, and alongside of our community partners and sponsors and funders, like, the community now has ownership over it. I think Indianapolis has a huge problem with philanthropy subsidizing things that we wanna see, right?
And it being an afterthought or it's very decorative on how we treat arts and culture, right? Yeah. Um, it's, it's the last thing on the budget, you know- Yeah ... what I mean? But, you know-
Michael Zarick: I think about that in the context of, like, journalism. Oh, God. Um, like, I feel like journalism as a, as a, uh, subset of a career is, like, really struggling right now.
Mm. But you have things like Mirror Indy, which are now community supported, so they can do strong work that, um, really tells what the true story of the, of the city is.
Nigel Long: Exactly.
Michael Zarick: Um, whereas, like, more institutional news organizations really struggle. Like, you see, um, WTHR getting, like, bought out and, like, firing their whole staff.
Nigel Long: No, I think, I think that's... But that, I think that goes [00:34:00] to the point, right? Like, so many things that need to just happen in the city end up being subsidized by philanthropy and, and, um, and, and that's not to say that that's not good.
Mm-hmm. But I think, like, like, because of that, right, I think symptoms of that are that, you know, art's, again, arts and culture feels like an afterthought. It feels like something that, oh, like, "Well, we don't have to support it with the city's budget. The city doesn't need to support it because, you know, X, Y, and Z
Michael Zarick: funder-" They're already doing it for free.
So why do we need to throw money at them?
Nigel Long: Well, and I don't even think it's about doing it for free. I think these things are supported. Like- Yeah ... there, there are foundations and money that's here, like some of the largest in the world. Like- Mm ... Indianapolis has more nonprofits per capita than any other city.
Facts. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? And so, uh, what I'm saying, what I'm... I think what I'm trying to get at is, is like how do we change the community's mindset to say, like, we can't wait on people to, to, [00:35:00] to give us the resources that we need to do the things that we need to do. It needs to be the city, it needs to be foundations and philanthropy, and it needs to be community that are all coming together equally, right, to share in the ownership of these things, right?
You know. And I think there's so many people in this city that, like, work jobs at nonprofits just because it's convenient. You know? They wouldn't never, ever work themselves out of a job, and so it's just easier to stay in that space of, like, "Okay," like, "this is what I'm gonna do." And I'm not, I'm not saying anybody in particular specifically.
I'm just saying- No, I totally agree ... like that's the mindset of the city, right? Yeah. And so instead of us, like, trying to solve the issues that we ha- create all these nonprofits to solve, like, there's just more and more people. And then the resources get more and more disparate. Yeah. And the resources get more and more diluted because everybody has an idea on how they could fix something- Yeah
as opposed to us coming together to create unified [00:36:00] causes to, you know, get the things that we want out of our city, out of our, out of the, the nonprofits and the philanthropy that exists. And then also out of, you know, like, our community to also have accountability over it too. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Michael Zarick: Yeah. No condemnation of the individual. It's just, like, the systems we exist under-
Nigel Long: Yeah ...
Michael Zarick: definitely, uh, support that idea of, um- like charity work as a replacement for actual community action or actual government action. I know, I got you. It's
Nigel Long: crazy.
Michael Zarick: Um, You're
Nigel Long: gonna get me going. That's the goal.
Michael Zarick: Uh, we're gonna move on to what I call the canned questions.
Nigel Long: Okay.
Michael Zarick: Uh, Third Space Indy is sponsored by City Rising. City Rising is a social impact studio. Most recently, they implemented an eviction data dashboard that looks to highlight and reduce the impact of the 30,000 evictions, mostly affecting Black and Latina women, Indianapolis faces every year. Shout out to City Rising.
Learn more at cityrising.org. Um,
City Rising has sponsored a question. Shout out to City
Nigel Long: Rising.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, shout out City Rising. [00:37:00] City Rising has sponsored a question. Which is, what is a third space or place to you?
Nigel Long: Um, it's interesting. I think, like, maybe, like, three years ago, this wasn't even a thing that people were thinking about.
Michael Zarick: Um- It's definitely a, like, a in vogue, young person, like, millennial question, for sure.
Nigel Long: I'm with it. No, no, I'm with it. I think, uh, I think, man, I think, uh, third spaces are... I mean, it's so important to me. I don't, I don't, I don't think I... I don't think the things that I've ever created had the name of third spa- You know, like, I... It's a, it's a, it's a new term, but I think when I sit and think about the things that I do- It's a new term from 1989.
I'm more so saying- I know what you're saying ... I think more people are using it now. I got you. I got you. It's more popular now as a term. I'm into it, you know. I- it gives a name. I'm just
Michael Zarick: pushing your buttons.
Nigel Long: It gives a name. But I'm more so saying, I think, uh, man, like, I think just the, the place where I can just be around [00:38:00] community and enjoy things, um, and people and, um, yeah.
Like, just... I don't wanna say relax, 'cause I feel, like, even for me, like, third spaces always become places where I'm working or networking or doing things. But-
Michael Zarick: Hmm, that goes against the definition.
Nigel Long: It does?
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Outside of work, outside of home, they can go relax, be with other people, and build community.
Nigel Long: My- I feel like building community is work to me.
But- But yeah, it's-
Michael Zarick: Building community is work to you.
Nigel Long: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Let's talk about that.
Nigel Long: I'm saying, I think, like, I, like, I think that's the thing, right? I think people feel like you're just supposed to build commun- Like, anything... It says, it's literally build is in it. Like, build includes work, you know what I mean?
Like- Mm-hmm ... and more what I'm saying is I think people assume that community is just supposed to fucking happen automatically. You know what I'm saying?
Michael Zarick: Can I make a distinction for you?
Nigel Long: Uh-huh.
Michael Zarick: I think you're talking about what I would call uppercase W Work versus what- maybe DJing is, what working for Gang Gang is, where I would call that lowercase W work, where you get a paycheck.
You're [00:39:00] talking about the work-
Nigel Long: Mm-hmm ...
Michael Zarick: of building community. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael Zarick: So maybe don't think of it as work, think of it as just, like, what you're doing.
Nigel Long: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay.
Michael Zarick: That's
Nigel Long: fair, that's fair. I think- Just gonna
Michael Zarick: challenge you a little bit.
Nigel Long: No, I think, um, I, I think the way, the, what I would push back and say, right, is, is, like, it's, like, being in community is a full-time job.
You know what I'm saying? Like, it is. Like, and I think people-
Michael Zarick: Totally agree with you ...
Nigel Long: People need to stop... Like, yes, we can have places where we come together and gather and relax and do things, but, like, that can't be the only place where we come and gather and relax and do things. Like, we, like, even just raising our conscious level, raising the way that we view things, like, y- you know, like, um...
And, and so I, I, I... That's my challenge, right? It's just, like, it is. It's work. Like, it, it- Yeah ... I don't, like,
Michael Zarick: even in- You think it's reductive to have a space that you can just go and sit and chill?
Nigel Long: No. No, no, no. I think that is great. Yeah. And I think it's fantastic.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: But I think in, even within [00:40:00] that space, someone is doing work to create that space.
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's the part that doesn't get recognized as work.
Michael Zarick: Definitely.
Nigel Long: The capital and lowercase. Definitely. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I, I-
Michael Zarick: Where is a place that, um, that you most recently felt, like, true joy?
Nigel Long: Um,
true joy. Uh, probably just, um, me and my son got to play Battleship the other day. Yo. Um, super analog. Um...
Michael Zarick: Who won?
Nigel Long: Of course I did. Oh my God. Um, but no, we got to, we got to play Battleship. That was really fun. Uh, and I did- unexpected, his grandma got it for him for his birthday. Mm-hmm. And so we were like, he was like, "Dad, what?"
Like... And he was like, "I played it with my friends before," had no idea how to play. So it was, it was fun. But that was, that was joy for me, right? And so, uh... Or, like, you know, like, DJing. Like, you know, like, I, I, I love, uh, [00:41:00] making people... Like, when people are having a good time, like, that makes me happy, bro.
Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Like, when people are, like, turnt up, when people are, like, whoo, singing at the top of their lungs or dancing. You know what I mean? Like, no one's watching. You know what I mean? Like, I think those are, those are the moment, you know, like, those are moments that bring me joy.
You know what I mean? Uh- Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Can I give a plug to Dr. Austin Dean Ashford?
Nigel Long: Oh, yeah.
Michael Zarick: Last Friday we attended what he did, which was Rap Monologues.
Nigel Long: And the- Bar Exams.
Michael Zarick: Oh, Bar Exams. Yes. But Rap Monologues was a part of it.
Nigel Long: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Right? Um, I walked in late, I will say, but the moments that I did see... Don't give me a thumbs down.
The moments that I did see, um, were moments of just, like, pure excitement and what I would call joy of just seeing peeper, pe- peeper, people perform. Um, for those who are listening who may not know-
Nigel Long: Yeah ...
Michael Zarick: the Rap Monologues portion that I attended was people performing hip hop or rap songs as a stage play as opposed to the actual song itself.
And, like, seeing people [00:42:00] morph these, um, lyrics into something new was, like, really interesting and exciting. Mm-hmm. And, like, you could see that the crowd was getting really into it, like when they recognized what the song was and they, like, would follow along with the play, um, or the performance. I think it was really neat, and I think when I think of it...
And just to shout you out too- ... I saw you sitting in the crowd not working, sitting and enjoying yourself.
Nigel Long: I was still recording, my mans. I'm just kidding, bro. Well, that's a lie 'cause you told me
Michael Zarick: I could buy the
Nigel Long: performance. You did. You did. I was trying. Nah, I was... Nah, yeah. No, I did. I did. No, and I think even for me, right, like, yes, I agree.
There should, there are places where we don't need to work.
Michael Zarick: I'm not, I'm just
Nigel Long: giving you a hard time. Point proven. Point proven.
Michael Zarick: I'm just giving you a hard time- You're right ... 'cause I think it's important to be able to, um... Have you ever heard rest is resistance?
Nigel Long: Yes. I'm, yeah, a complete opposite.
Michael Zarick: I think sometime, yeah.
Like- I don't think you get a choice sometimes.
Nigel Long: [00:43:00] Nah, I don't. But it's fun, man. I, I, like, I could not imagine doing anything else in life, bro. Like, I, I mean, like, just even when I think back to Short Ridge, I went to, I went to super conservative school, college. I went to Taylor University for a little bit. Oh,
Michael Zarick: okay.
Nigel Long: That was interesting. You know what I mean? That's another podcast.
Michael Zarick: I went to a private Catholic high school, and I always say, um, that it taught me a lot about who I do not want to
Nigel Long: be. Oh.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: 1,000%.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: Um, and so man, I think, uh, there's just so much, man, and like, uh, to do, but I would not rather... I wouldn't wanna be in any other position than what I am now.
Like, being able to have such a... Being in a spot where, um, I can help artists and creatives and people do the things that they wanna do, um, and not... And you know what I mean? Like, have fun. Like, I'm, I'm, like, my dreams are coming true too. Like I, you know.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Nigel Long: Every DJ wants to [00:44:00] DJ to a, a room full of people, and if you can do that you know what I mean?
Like, um-
Michael Zarick: When's the next time you... When's the, uh, rooftop in the Fountain Square? When's that?
Nigel Long: Man, so I'll be doing that on first and second Saturdays, so we'll have, like- For the
Michael Zarick: whole summer?
Nigel Long: All summer.
Michael Zarick: Bro, that's fire.
Nigel Long: So we'll have, like, R&B and, uh, you know, like, just open format, like, just dope music on first Saturdays, and then second Saturdays we'll lean more into, like, house music.
And not just, like, that, like, weird- I know what you're saying ... s- s- house music- Yeah ... but, like, real, like, real house music from Chicago. Remember at The Boiler
Michael Zarick: Room?
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that type
Michael Zarick: of stuff.
Nigel Long: Eh, not quite. That kind of- No? ... goes too far sometimes. Yeah. I'm more so saying, Boiler Room is cool, but they have, they be having some wack niggas on there, bro.
They, they, I don't know. That's funny. I'm saying, like, I'm saying, like, real, I'm saying, like, real house music, like Frankie Knuckles and-
Michael Zarick: Okay ...
Nigel Long: and, uh, you know, like, uh, Ron Trent and, like, you know, there's a lot, there's just a lot of dope house music. And I'm thinking about Chicago, I'm thinking about Detroit, I'm thinking about Baltimore, I'm thinking about-
Michael Zarick: Stuff to hang with.
Nigel Long: Yeah, man. I got you [00:45:00] Stuff to be cool, not the like, "Oom, oom, oom, oom." Like, that shit's terrible. You're not trying
Michael Zarick: to get sweaty.
Nigel Long: No, man. That shit's terrible, bro. Uh- I wanna get sweaty. I wanna dance. No. I wanna dance. We're going to dance on Saturday. We're going to dance. I'm more so saying, I'm more-
Michael Zarick: Sorry, the, I think the phrase, "I wanna get sweaty" is really funny.
Nigel Long: Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, but we're gonna dance, man. No, no. We're gonna dance.
Michael Zarick: Okay, okay.
Nigel Long: But just not like the "Oom,
Michael Zarick: oom, oom, oom."
Nigel Long: Okay.
Michael Zarick: My wife gonna pull up. My wife and I will pull up sometime.
Nigel Long: Pull up.
Michael Zarick: Trust. It'll
Nigel Long: be great.
Michael Zarick: Um, follow-up question to the previous- Sorry ... canned question. No. The, we're flowing. We're flowing.
Follow-up question to the previous canned question.
Nigel Long: Yes.
Michael Zarick: What is a third space or place- ... that has existed for you previously that no longer does?
Mm. Think hard.
Nigel Long: Um, a third space or place that doesn't exist. Um-
Michael Zarick: And that can be metaphorically or [00:46:00] physically or emotionally, whatever way- Mm ... you wanna take it.
Nigel Long: Mm. Um,
uh, I mean, one that has been more, my, my great-grandma's dealing with some health challenges, um, and I lost my grandpa a couple years ago.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: And so I guess one of the thing, one of the places that I would say is I just, I really miss their house. Um, they are from Michigan City, Indiana, and so they used to live in this just huge, like, just big house.
Um, and I just, I, you know, just recently been thinking about a lot of the time spent there. And so- Yeah ... I would say that that's, that's probably the, a space that I really miss that, um, yeah, I guess would be a third space.
Michael Zarick: Any special memory you're thinking about in this moment?
Nigel Long: Uh, nothing specifically. Um, you know, just, uh, uh, they have, like, five, seven grandkids, so just all of us being there.
Michael Zarick: Yeah ...
Nigel Long: family. My grandma had a beauty [00:47:00] shop in her house.
Michael Zarick: Oh, for real? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nigel Long: That's funny. Like, a legit, like, my- Yeah ... like, a legit, like, you know- She
Michael Zarick: had, like, women sitting in the chair with the, like, the hair thing going?
Nigel Long: No, deadass, bro. Like- Yeah. Like- That's
Michael Zarick: cool ...
Nigel Long: yeah. Like, so when we would go visit, you know, so that, you know, like, just that, uh, you know, and just them at that time was crazy.
Mm. You know, they were just-
Michael Zarick: I love a barbershop vibe.
Nigel Long: Yeah, that's what it was.
Michael Zarick: Like, I think that type of thing is, like, I, I really... That's why I like going, like, something- There's a special bond between- uh, an individual and the person who cuts their hair, where you can, like, just have a conversation. It's like having a second therapist.
Oh, gosh. Or a first for a lot of people.
Nigel Long: Yeah. And that's what she w- that's what my grandma was doing down there. Yeah. She was down there running her mouth. And just talk about everything, everything and nothing all at the same time. Uh, so yeah, I think that was... That's probably a space that I truly miss is f- 1014 Liberty Trail was their address- Oh
in Michigan City.
Michael Zarick: Hey, go check it out if you're listening.
Nigel Long: Hey, man. I'm
Michael Zarick: just kidding.
Nigel Long: If you're in MC. [00:48:00] Yeah. Crazy times.
Michael Zarick: Uh, don't pull up on, uh, on unannounced, though.
Nigel Long: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael Zarick: Something might happen.
Nigel Long: Yeah. Yeah, they don't live there anymore.
Michael Zarick: Oh, okay, cool. For sure. They sold that house. I don't know who does, so-
Nigel Long: No one lives there
definitely don't pull up ... I don't know who lives there.
Michael Zarick: Don't pull up. Um, were your p- grandparents like, um... So when I think of my grandma, I think, uh, both of them really, um, there's always that, like, "Are you hungry?"
Nigel Long: Yeah,
Michael Zarick: man. "Have you eaten?" Yeah, man. "
Nigel Long: You look skinny." Yeah,
Michael Zarick: man. Even though I'm fat. Like- Yeah. "You, you look skinny today."
Nigel Long: Yeah, man. No, absolutely. Yeah. What
Michael Zarick: type of things are they, uh, rolling out for you?
Nigel Long: Oh, man. Uh, my grandma used to make a amazing Sock It To Me cake, which is like a caramel cake- What is... Ooh ... with like caramel. That's what she called it. I don't know- Yeah ... if that's what it's actually called. But it was like caramel cake with, she would ma- home make her caramel dressing.
Uh-
Michael Zarick: That sounds fire.
Nigel Long: Yeah, she used to make everything, bro. But I think, you know, like I said, I think that space was just one that I knew I could, like, even from school, spring breaks, all the things, just getting up there and just, like, being able to just be and [00:49:00] not have to worry about a lot of the other shit around here.
Definitely. You know? I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah.
Michael Zarick: No, it makes perfect sense. I think just having an escape- Yeah, bro ... is one of, in a lot of ways is what a third space is. Mm-hmm. Just, like, being able to take a moment. Um, every episode I ask a question from the previous guest.
Nigel Long: Uh-oh.
Michael Zarick: The previous guest is Andrea Watts.
Okay. Um, I think you're friends with her.
Nigel Long: Yeah. I believe. I know Andrea.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. For sure. Um, she asked, "If you were a touring artist, what would your rider be for your dressing room?"
Nigel Long: Um...
Michael Zarick: Imagine you're a bougie bitch and you are trying to, like, live it up. What do you-
Nigel Long: I'm with you. I'm
Michael Zarick: with you ... what
Nigel Long: do you got?
No, man. Uh, I mean, I mean, man, I'm not, I'm not difficult. I'd say, like, just some-
Michael Zarick: I'm dead.
Nigel Long: Just some
Michael Zarick: water. No, imagine you are difficult, though, is the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put your... Let's do a little role play.
Nigel Long: I don't like-
Michael Zarick: Maybe you don't have to try that hard- I
Nigel Long: don't like what's happening ... according
Michael Zarick: to Dr.
Austin Dean Scott.
Nigel Long: I don't know what's happening here. Uh, you know, man, I, you know, some- [00:50:00] Some nice, uh, I'm a fan of Springwater for sure. Mm-hmm. Um-
Michael Zarick: Are you a Saratoga guy?
Nigel Long: No, no. Okay. Not the, you know... Give me that Kroger shit, man, you know?
Uh, um, I think, you know, I love, like, Gush- sour Gushers. Ooh. Uh, sour gummy bears. Have
Michael Zarick: you had... Okay, I gotta ask 'cause I-
Nigel Long: Trolli ...
Michael Zarick: I haven't had 'em, I haven't had 'em yet, but you-- So you know the Nerds gummy clusters?
Nigel Long: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: They make Nerds gummy clusters with, like, Gusher filling.
Nigel Long: Oh, that, that feels like it'd be a little bit too much.
Like, to me- The Gushers, the Gusher filling is, like, enough. I haven't tried it yet. I just had Gushers last night.
Michael Zarick: Oh, for real?
Nigel Long: Yeah. That's awesome. That's what I'm saying, like, sour sh- yeah, I'm-- So that, uh, sour cream and onion Pi- Pringles probably.
Michael Zarick: Ooh.
Nigel Long: Um, Bold Chex Mix, but, like, the old flavor, not this new shit that they have now.
Have you seen? They have, like, a new mix of the Bold, and it's [00:51:00] terrible.
Michael Zarick: That's really funny.
Nigel Long: Um, yeah.
Michael Zarick: When I go in the, the snack, the snack aisle at the grocery store, I go, "This shit's too expensive," and I walk out. That's-
Nigel Long: No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... that's how it is right now. It is. Uh, but yeah, you know, those are, you know...
I think that, you know. Um, I- What about, like, what do you- ... am an avid canna- Oh ... cannabis, Cannabis advocate.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
yeah, I think that's reasonable. Oh, so my mom works for Texas Roadhouse.
Nigel Long: Oh, shit.
Michael Zarick: Um- Sell
Nigel Long: those rolls?
Michael Zarick: Yeah. She works in the corporate office. Oh. She, like, works-
Nigel Long: So not rolls.
Michael Zarick: No, no. She works in the...
Well, kind of, in a way.
Nigel Long: Oh, 'cause Louisville. You're from Louisville.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, I'm from Louisville.
Nigel Long: So that Texas Roadhouse is made- It's- ... down in Southern Indiana, right?
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. In the Green Tree Mall in, uh, what's the, the city down there? I can't remember.
Nigel Long: Uh, not, it's not-
Michael Zarick: Not New... Is it New
Nigel Long: Albany? New Albany. I think you're right.
Um,
Michael Zarick: or Jeffersonville. I think it's Jeffersonville.
Nigel Long: I think it's... Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Anyways-
Nigel Long: One of those Southern Indiana
Michael Zarick: places ... so she works for Texas Roadhouse, and they, she's in the marketing department, so every year they have, um, like a big conference [00:52:00] where they get, like, a big name to perform, and a couple years ago they had Snoop Dogg, and she was like, "Yeah, I couldn't..."
Like, she was like, she was like, "When I would go in the backstage, like, it was cloudy."
Nigel Long: Hey, man. It's a good time, man. I
Michael Zarick: think that was funny.
Nigel Long: We're gonna be there one day, one of these days in Indiana, right?
Michael Zarick: What do you mean by that? Like, in terms of, uh, the artist showing up or the, the legislation?
Nigel Long: I think the legislation.
Okay. I mean, I think it's, I think it's something that should happen. I think at this point, like,
Michael Zarick: we're, we're- I think when you're surrounded
on all sides by people
collecting tax dollars- Yeah, it doesn't make sense ... you're failing. It
Nigel Long: doesn't-- It makes zero sense.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, definitely.
Nigel Long: It, you know. So yeah. Um,
Michael Zarick: yeah, shout out to- Mitch McConnell, turtle,
Nigel Long: uh,
Michael Zarick: go away.
Nigel Long: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Sorry.
Nigel Long: Do I get to ask a question to the next person now?
Michael Zarick: We're not done yet.
Nigel Long: Oh, sorry, sorry. I didn't know. I didn't know if you- Well, we can-
Michael Zarick: No, no, keep going ... we're about to be done. We're about to be
Nigel Long: done. Keep going, keep going, keep going. Um- No, I was more so, I'm like, I'm excited- You do... Yeah, that's, that's-
to ask you questions.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Nigel Long: I don't know what it's gonna be.
Michael Zarick: I'm excited for you to ask me questions. You see. I don't know what I'm gonna ask. Because you're [00:53:00] excited. Um, is there... Actually, that's pretty much all I have, but is there anything else you were thinking about you wanted to chat on or, um, what you got on your mind, on your heart?
Nigel Long: No, I mean, I think, man, just thanks for having me. Um, seriously, I don't really... This is uncomfortable for me, personally. I would just rather do things in, like, in the background and nobody-
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Sounds like, sounds like you're working too hard.
Nigel Long: Uh, nah, hey, man. Uh, you know, I have a, I have some... Yeah, I think, you know, this city, man, just deserves so much more than what it gets from our politicians, from the people that run the city secretly or not secretly, I don't know.
Um.
Michael Zarick: It doesn't feel very secret sometimes.
Nigel Long: Um, and so yeah, I think, I think just, uh, something just lifting up is, is like, you know, just that we, like, I think the city's great at... Uh, I think someone said it at the last Creative Mornings It's like the city's great at be- like, being [00:54:00] hosts to other people, but we can't really figure out how to, like, be hospitable to the people that live here.
And I think that's just something that, like, has really been, like, a driving thing for me. Like, a lot of the things that I'm creating and doing is, is like, I think our city deserves to have, like, great experiences. They deserve to have things and dope things in neighborhoods, not, like, that we all...
Like, nobody lives downtown. You know, I mean, like-
Michael Zarick: Yeah, I know what you're saying.
Nigel Long: You know what I mean? Like, but, like, there's, there's- Not
Michael Zarick: where the things are happening ...
Nigel Long: not where any of these things are happening. You know, I think, you know, Final Four was great. I think, uh, every conference that we have is amazing.
I think we did great with the NBA finals last year.
But I think, you know, the city just continues to be, like, a tale of two cities in, in some ways. Mm-hmm. And I think that's just, as someone that's, like, been a part of so many things, you know, I think that's a part that's just feels frustrating still.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: Um, is, is that it feels like that when we talk, when, when certain people [00:55:00] talk about Indy or Speed City or whatever, you know, like, that's a different place than, like, Naptown or, like, where, you know. And I think we just need to do a better job of making it more consistent. You know, I think we do a great job when the race comes.
You know what I'm saying? We do a great job when all these people come from out of town. But, you know, like, how are we- showing up for the people that live here-
Michael Zarick: Yeah ...
Nigel Long: and that, you know, that- What are you doing in the in between? ... that make these biddle, that make these big things happen. You know what I'm saying?
And how much, how much are, is the city benefiting from all this stuff? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like-
Michael Zarick: Yeah, definitely.
Nigel Long: You know, and I think that's just, like outside of like the economic impact shit that only really is for a couple, you know, like for certain people. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if you...
So I don't know, that's, that's my, I, that's my final thought. Put a stamp on that one.
Michael Zarick: Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing so much with me. Um, last question- Okay ... which you already picked up on. What question would you like to ask the next Third Space Indy guest? Who is not scheduled, so I can't tell you who it is.
Nigel Long: Mm. [00:56:00] What would I like to ask a person? I got asked about a rider. I think I'm gonna ask person, um, if they had to pick a genre of music, a subgenre of music that represented them, what would it be?
Michael Zarick: Mm. So you're like going like, I'm like- So like- ... screamo death metal-
Nigel Long: Yeah, like you gotta- ... uh,
Michael Zarick: psycho shit. Like that.
Yeah, it's
Nigel Long: like- You gotta add some, you gotta add some- Add some ... adjectives to that. Like not just like, "Oh, I'm rock and roll." It's like no, like what kind of rock and roll?
Michael Zarick: I see you.
Nigel Long: Or what kind of, you know?
Michael Zarick: Great question.
Nigel Long: What would yours be? I'm
Michael Zarick: glad you asked me. Let's think. Man, I'm riding high on like folk and bluegrass music right now.
Nigel Long: Okay.
Michael Zarick: Tyler Childers is my, you know, Pikeville, Kentuck- Kentucky shout-out. I'm
Nigel Long: not mad at that.
Michael Zarick: Um, a man of the people in a lot of ways. Goes back home and performs free concerts a lot. Uh, and so when I think about like the type of music that I, that really drives me, something about a banjo like really lights me up.
It's like the most white boy [00:57:00] take I've ever got. Well, no, listen, when I moved to Arkansas, when I moved to Arkansas- Something
Nigel Long: about a banjo lights me up. That's a crazy line.
Michael Zarick: When I moved to Arkansas and I first got like a big boy job, my first paycheck I went to buy a banjo.
Nigel Long: Oh, shit. And I-
Did you learn?
Michael Zarick: Fuck no. I really need to do it, but um, it sit there and stares at me my life- So
Nigel Long: you still have it?
Michael Zarick: Yeah. It's in my room every day. Uh, yeah, I think about it a lot. Damn. It's just, there, I got, I got ADHD brain. It's hard to like sit down and do that.
Nigel Long: Oh, I understand, brother.
Michael Zarick: Um-
Nigel Long: Yeah, banjo's like kinda like tough.
Michael Zarick: So to answer your question, I would, I don't know how to describe it necessarily, but something to do with like, um, like I'm really in this realm of like thinking about how to educate people about, um, the city they live in. Mm-hmm. The cool people that exist within it, and like how to steer the, steer the ship forward in a- Of course
in a successful way. Um, so I don't know what that answer is necessarily, but something in that bluegrass folk realm.
Nigel Long: I'm with you.
Michael Zarick: Like [00:58:00] you could call it, like a bluegrass sea shanty. Steer the ship. That's what I got.
Nigel Long: I'm with you. Hey, man.
Michael Zarick: Um-
Nigel Long: Honest answer.
Michael Zarick: Yo, Nigel, thank you for coming on.
Nigel Long: Thank you, man, for making some time for me.
Michael Zarick: For those who are listening Where can the people find you if you wanna be found?
Nigel Long: Uh, yeah. You can follow me, DJ Grapevine 317, uh-
Michael Zarick: Is there... Is it DJ Grapevine period 317 or is it all one?
Nigel Long: It's just... So the, it's DJ Grapevine 317. Mm. And then there's, if you wanna follow Grapevine, the... Or so if you wanna follow Sound Off, Sound Off Nap Mm
that has a lot of my different DJ events that I collaborate with different DJs on.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Nigel Long: Uh, grapevine.317- Oh, there we go ... is the Grapevine- That's what it was ... event. Got it. Um, and so you can, that's like our flagship event that we do off all, every first Friday Mon- May through October. Um, we'll be kicking off on June 5th this year.
Um, so yeah. Come check us out. We got a lot of stuff going. [00:59:00] Um, soundoffnaptown.com also. Yeah. We got a show with Maxy coming. We got a bunch of stuff. We have, like, so much shit coming that it's insane. I probably, I should like, p- I should, like, do a graphic and send it
Michael Zarick: to you. Like a promo. Boom, boom. Um, and then do you wanna shout out Brick by Brick at all?
Nigel Long: Oh my God, yeah. No, um, so that's the thing. Black Joy is July 11th this year. You still have your opportunity to purchase a brick until June 1st.
Michael Zarick: A legit brick.
Nigel Long: Yes. It is- You can
Michael Zarick: carry it across the street so you can keep yourself safe ...
Nigel Long: it is a legit brick. Commemorative brick that you can get that'll have your name on it, Brick by Brick fund.
Uh, and don't just think about that for a personal person, like, right? I think, like, this can be something that can be a group of people getting together to do. I think it could be something that is a family. It can be from your job. It can be from your school, whatever it is, right? Organization, fraternity, sorority, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff.
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, we can, um... It's gonna take all of us to continue to build something that's gonna last [01:00:00] for a long time in the city, and I see Black Joy as being something that this, we're, we're at the beginning. You know what I'm saying? And I think we have so much more work that we can do, um, to continue to make this event bigger, but then also continue to start to move things forward for Black people in a specific way that's through the lens of joy.
So support Brick by Brick. Support Third Space Indy.
Michael Zarick: Bang. That's what's up. Stoked. Hey, thanks for watching or listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. You can find me by going to Third Space Indy on Instagram, or by going to thirdspaceindy.com where I put the show notes and a blog. Thank you so much to City Rising for sponsoring the podcast, and thank you
to... Thank you to Proformus. Proformus is an urban planning and design firm that helps neighbors and communities shape the places they already love. Based in Indianapolis, they're here to help you make your place happen one block at a time.
Nigel Long: Yeah, shout '
Michael Zarick: em out. I'll
Nigel Long: drop it.
Shout 'em
Michael Zarick: out. Uh, and thank you as always to the local artist Jennasen for allowing me to [01:01:00] use your song Scared Rabbit as the intro music. Thank you once again for watching. See you in the next one. Goodbye. Peace.
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