Ep. 49 - Andrea Watts - Health By Design
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Episode Summary
Andrea Watts is an advocate, consultant, and former city government bureaucrat working to improve Indianapolis's built environment through her work at Health By Design. Michael sits down with Andrea at Canal Bistro in Broad Ripple to talk about walkable cities, the politics of infrastructure, Arab American identity, and what it means to fight for the city you're stuck loving.
Sponsors:
City Rising (cityrising.org)
Proformus Urban Planning & Design
Intro music: Scared Rabbit by Jennasen
Timestamps
1:07 — Intro
3:51 — How Michael and Andrea met
5:52 — Health By Design and the built environment
6:29 — How Indianapolis has changed
10:14 — From city bureaucrat to advocate
13:19 — The Walton family model and attracting talent through livability
16:16 — Building connections through shared passion
19:22 — Why Andrea never moved to New York City
21:44 — Drive Less April challenge
25:01 — Why it's hard not to drive in Indianapolis
28:09 — IndyGo, transit frequency, and the privilege of flexibility
33:23 — Arab American Heritage Month and Lebanese identity
35:41 — Canned questions
38:47 — 16th & Monon street mural
42:21 — Lost third spaces
49:15 — Carmel's walkable infrastructure
52:56 — Friday Field Trips series
55:15 — The Walk and Bike Summit
57:41 — Question for the next guest: What's on your rider?
Episode Transcript
Andrea Watts
Speaker: [00:00:00] Hey, Michael here. On May 23rd, 2026, I am hosting my first ever live show with my guest, Jesse Brown, at Patina Art Gallery on Michigan Street. I would love to see you there.
The show begins at two o'clock, but you can show up at one thirty, and it's also free to come if you choose. The show is also pay what you want, so if you choose to give any money, I am splitting your price of admission between myself, Jesse Brown, and Patina Art Gallery. We plan to be outside, but if it rains or if it doesn't, there's an active art gallery inside known as Big Paintings done by local artists Lily Groot and Lizzie Bilbrey.
I would love to see you there, and if you want more information and/or tickets, you can go to oneyear dot thirdspaceindy dotcom. See you there, and enjoy the episode.
[00:01:00]
Michael Zarick: Hello, my name is Michael Zarick and this is Third Space Indy. In 1989, a man named Ray Oldenburg wrote a book called The Great Good Place. In this book, he coined the term The Third Place. This describes a place that is outside of your home and outside of your work that you can go be with others and build community.
So I've made it my goal to find people all over Indianapolis who are doing their very best to make these types of spaces. Today, I'm joined with a very good friend of mine who in many ways is like an older sister. Who-
Andrea Watts: Like a mean older sister? Or like a nice one?
Michael Zarick: Depends on how you define mean. Who I regularly force to buy me things mostly involving, food or drink.
And is somebody I've come to respect greatly- Yeah. ... uh, because of her connection to the [00:02:00] community and, uh, her fervor for the thing she believes in- Yes. ... I think is probably a correct word. So that brings me to my guest today, Ms. Andrea Watts.
Andrea Watts: Yay.
Michael Zarick: What's up? Thank you.
Andrea Watts: Thanks for having me.
Also, quick plug. We're at Canal Bistro. Mm-hmm. Our favorite place to eat, Pro Tip or the Tabbouleh with beef shawarma on top.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: And extra pita so you can make a sandwich.
Michael Zarick: so actually the, before we get into you specifically, let's- Yeah. The way we met is, uh, I reached out to you on LinkedIn, a very professional thing to do while I was unemployed.
And I said, "Hey, I heard that you're Lebanese too."
Andrea Watts: Heck yeah.
Michael Zarick: And you were like, "I love that. Let's get lunch." And so, um, I was like walking downtown. Do you remember this? Yeah. We were like, "Do you wanna go to, uh, what's the place? Is it-
Andrea Watts: On Ma-
Michael Zarick: Petra?
Andrea Watts: Petra Mass Ave.
Michael Zarick: You were like, do you wanna go to Petra?" I was like, "Sure."
And then I was like, "Can you come pick me up?" 'Cause I was like in the middle of nowhere.
Andrea Watts: I was like, "No, let's go somewhere in Broad Ripple."
Michael Zarick: And then you're like, "Oh, I [00:03:00] live in Broad River too, so let's go up here." So then we ended up at Canal Bistro and you ordered the regular, which is now my regular order-
Andrea Watts: It's the best.
Michael Zarick: which is the one you outlined. Yes. Which is the tabbouleh salad with, uh, what'd you say?
Andrea Watts: It's delightful. Yeah. And then the wife is, um, Lebanese and the husband is Egyptian. Mm-hmm. And this is a great spot right next to the Monon and it's got an amazing patio and we're right by the rainbow bridge. It's just a really colorful, cool place to hang.
Michael Zarick: Both, both of this episode and the last episode have both sounded like ads. I just happened to be at a restaurant when we did it. Um, so, but thank you for these guys for letting us, uh, record here. The server today was really kind.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, she was.
Michael Zarick: Um- She loved
Andrea Watts: your shirt.
Michael Zarick: She did love my shirt.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Flex, if you're watching on YouTube.
So Andrea, for those who may not know who you are-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: will you take a time, take a second to tell the people who you are, what you're about and what you do?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um, I am born and [00:04:00] raised in Indianapolis, so, uh, grew up here, uh, went
Michael Zarick: to- What's your high school?
That's important.
Andrea Watts: Westfield High School. Okay. Home of the Shamrocks. It's my 20 year reunion this year.
Michael Zarick: That's right. Wasn't there something we wanted to go do and you're like, I can't have those-
Andrea Watts: Well, here's the thing.
Michael Zarick: I'm gonna
organize-
Andrea Watts: I'm on the organizing committee. And then Senator Hunley's having her campaign launch.
So now I'm like helped or to organize my, um, 20 year reunion, but I'm not attending because I have priorities. So, so me and a couple other friends are gonna do like a mini reunion.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, the ones you actually like.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Not the ones you like cringe to look at.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Uh, okay. So Westfield High School?
Andrea Watts: Yeah, Westfield High School, but grew up in Pike Township.
So, yeah, went to Pike Township schools for a minute. Um, and then really fun in high school, I got, um, the opportunity to attend North Central. They have something called the J. Everett like Career Center and I went for [00:05:00] radio TV. So could like get a little like-
Michael Zarick: You did like similar to Anna.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, like- But
Michael Zarick: you went to Ben Davis.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I didn't know North Central had a career center.
Andrea Watts: They do. They had like a cosmetology school, like mechanic stuff. So if you just wanted to do like a two year program, that was an option and I appreciate that. I did go on to go to Ball State, uh, the Letterman School and, um, had a great time and then ended up in Indianapolis and I've stuck around since then.
So-
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Shout out to David Letterman, Broad Ripple native.
Andrea Watts: I also like that Letterman has a C student scholarship just to like celebrate mediocrity because like he's a C student and went to Broad Ripple High School- That's real? Yeah, yeah.
Michael Zarick: I didn't know
that.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I don't know if it still exists. I know that when I was at Ball State, it was a thing that existed.
Michael Zarick: I would like that scholarship for myself.
Andrea Watts: It's hilarious. Uh,
Michael Zarick: can you talk a little bit about Health By Design as well?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Health By Design is a nonprofit, um, an advocacy organization that [00:06:00] works, to better the built environment, the built environment, sidewalks, crosswalks, bridges, all sorts of things-
and, and it's not just that. It's, uh, like things, core pillars of like, um, access to green space, access to transit, safe routes to school, um, responsible land use.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: The way that, how we choose what goes on the land, um, impacts our public health, so.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Great. We'll probably talk a little bit more about that later.
Yeah. But first let's talk about you.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So you grew up here in Indianapolis-
mm-hmm. ...
in a variety of places.
Yeah.
Sort of.
Yeah.
Actually, you've, from what I understand, you've lived in more places as an adult than you did as a child.
Yeah.
Yes. Around town.
Yeah.
Uh, so how have you seen, like, Indianapolis change-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: since you were a kid?
Andrea Watts: Um-
Michael Zarick: I'm kind of interested in that.
Andrea Watts: For sure. So, when I was a kid, there wasn't really the Cultural Trail.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: There wasn't a lot of the awesome infrastructure that [00:07:00] exists today. I feel like with the launch of Greater Indy Trailways, um, trails are having a moment in Central Indiana, um, and in the donut counties as well, I think that, um, people are seeing these as essential infrastructure for, you know, not just quality of life, but also for their health.
but yeah, I think it's changed a lot in, in that way.
Michael Zarick: Any, like ... So when I think about, um, how Anna talks about ... Oh, so I grew up in Louisville.
Andrea Watts: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And someone asked me if I like ... I've had multiple people ask me if I like Louisville more or less than Indianapolis. And I think at this point ... And the way I talk about it is that I think if you look at both cities historically, they are very similar.
The way their makeup is now, they're very similar. So Indianapolis had UniGov, Louisville had a similar policy thing happened- Yeah. ... where they became metropolitan.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, [00:08:00] and with white flight sort of destroying the downtown area- mm-hmm. ... um, and then a, a mid 2010s revival effort- Yeah. ... like, like we saw here in Indianapolis.
Like I think the historical mistakes are the same and the modern day resolution to those mistakes- Yeah. ... are very similar. I think at the end of the day, I think what I see for Indianapolis is a better vision for the future and a better potential also. I don't live in Louisville, but that's my perception- Yeah.
at this time. Um, I wonder if you feel similarly about the way you've seen Indianapolis develop over the past-
Andrea Watts: Yeah, I- ...
Michael Zarick: Half of your life.
Andrea Watts: And I also think Indianapolis is, you know, this major sports city where we become a world-class host. So when I think about examples of the Super Bowl, um, what was that, 2012 when we [00:09:00] hosted and all of the things that Indianapolis did to make the city more vibrant, they, um, increased the public art.
a lot of money incentivized owners to open up businesses, and they made it easier for, uh, downtown-ish businesses to get, like, access to, liquor licenses and stuff. So a lot of, I feel like from that era, mom and pop shops opened-
Michael Zarick: mm-hmm. ...
Andrea Watts: um, so just from, like, a retail perspective and, like, just a, a city becoming, like, a more livable, fun place to, like, see and experience, I think that helped us.
I know that there's a million other things as well. During the Peterson era was when cultural districts were born, and now I feel like, especially when you look at the, the cultural districts and they did, um, money for [00:10:00] districts, so like Broad Ripple, Village Association and, um, Fountain Fletcher District and other, um, Mass Ave, Massachusetts Avenue, um, when you see the arts and culture stuff in our city thriving, it's, it's pretty exciting.
Michael Zarick: How did you get to be interested in your current, um, like, goals in life which is, like- Yeah.
to make Indianapolis more walkable and more, uh, well, as you said, improve the built environment-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: for people.
Andrea Watts: Um, well, I was a bureaucrat for about six years. So I worked in, city government, um, started off in the parks department, worked in the mayor's office, for a brief stint and then worked for the Department of Metropolitan Development, and I found myself really attracted to the projects that thought about Indianapolis, like, 50 years from now.
So the White River Vision Plan, um, the Indian Moves Transportation Plan, [00:11:00] the things that keep people here, and, um, you know, when we talk about, like, town attraction and the brain drain and, like, keeping graduates here, I think people wanna live in a city where there's a lot of green space. Um, uh, one of my, like, consulting clients is Rethink 65/70, and when we posted renderings of highway caps, there were people in the comments saying, "This makes me wanna move back to Indianapolis."
And, like, that-
Michael Zarick: Can you define what a highway cap is?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. A highway cap is when, um, so, like, there's, for example, at the south split where there's already the Idle park, it would be, like, the Idle park, but all around the highway. So what people would experience is green space, retail, um, trails or some sort of thing and then, like, the, the local, you know, traffic that goes through, but, like, at a slower pace.
Um, but [00:12:00] I think, you know, Indiana likes to, um, tout their innovation when it comes to, like, life sciences and all these under industries and, and tech and entrepreneurship, but what about innovation when it comes to infrastructure, right? I would love-
Michael Zarick: Speed city.
Andrea Watts: I know. Ooh, ooh. Yeah. I, I, I feel like there's, there's so much more we could be doing and we have so much potential, but it's frustrating, right?
For that to be so progressive in a place, like-
Michael Zarick: Well, you, you said- Yeah. ... uh, something that I think about a lot, which is we moved from Northwest Arkansas, so Fayetteville, Bentonville-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: um, the home of Walmart and the Walton family-
Andrea Watts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: um, the evil overlords of Northwest Arkansas.
However, they, Walmart has, uh, figured out exactly what you said, which is that no one wants to move to Northwest Arkansas unless there are nice things there.
Yeah.
So the Walton family has invested in beautiful pedestrian infrastructure, [00:13:00] beautiful- Yeah. ... um, cycling infrastructure, great restaurants, great, like, art.
Mm-hmm. Like, there's a beautiful, um, museum there that is
mostly a pet project of Alice Walton, but I think at the end of the day, it's also in a- Yeah. ... attraction point for, like, talent. So as bad of a corporation as Walmart is-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: to, to exist, like, they have come to the understanding that to attract talent to the region, like, people have to want to live there.
Andrea Watts: Oh, absolutely.
Michael Zarick: Um, they do a lot of stuff that, like, is a little more aggressive-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: outside of that, like, um, requiring their vendors to, like, be there. Uh-huh. Um, but I think they've also realized that, like, no one wants to work for Walmart proper or, like, operate infrastructure for them-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: uh, if they don't wanna be there. And I think that speaks to, like, what you were talking about- Yeah. ... where it's like, I think we struggle with this from artists to professionals to- Yeah. ... not that artists aren't professionals, but-
Yeah. ...
um, this idea of, like,
keeping [00:14:00] people in the region to-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: stick around if we aren't supporting them in whatever way we can. Absolutely. What do you think of
Andrea Watts: that? No, I agree with you completely. I have a question for you now. Who do you think is, like, the Walton family of Indianapolis?
Michael Zarick: Lilly.
Andrea Watts: Lilly? Yeah. So, like, Lilly Endowment with, um- Well,
Michael Zarick: I want you to picture Lilly's campus downtown.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: There is a soccer field.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Have you ever seen anybody play soccer at Lilly? I don't think so. But there's this understanding that you wanna create a space that people want to exist in. They have beautiful landscaping. Yeah. They have a soccer field. They have a nice walkable
Andrea Watts: campus. And, like, leaving trails through it.
Michael Zarick: Even just, like, East Street where they are-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: is a pleasant place to be. Mm-hmm. And I think they don't influence the city and they just do it on the land that they own versus Walmart kind of has this sort of looming force where they, like, they are actually influencing the policy. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I feel like Lilly is that.
And [00:15:00] kind of Salesforce, but not really. They're not based here.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: They just have a building.
if you were to answer that question for yourself, what would it be
Andrea Watts: the same? Um, yeah, I think about the Lilly Endowment. I think about-
Michael Zarick: Oh, my God. Yeah, that's also true.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. And, um, the Simon family with what they do with-
Michael Zarick: What's the Simon family based in?
Andrea Watts: Arts and stuff. Um, I feel like they might
Their foundation stuff is through under the, like, uh, Central Indiana Community Foundation umbrella.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: and then who else? Efrenson family. Yeah, but I, I just think about the philanthropy that exists in Indianapolis and how, the Glick family, how lucky we are to have the Cultural Trail and the way that, um, other cities come to us for the example of, um, public private partnership.
Um, but it's the [00:16:00] philanthropy community and I think like the corporate foundation community that kind of makes up for, you know, the money problems that like the government can't spend.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Which is ...
Michael Zarick: At least at this time.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Uh, hmm. so whenever you and I hang out, um, we're just like out and about and you just always know people. And maybe you and I are similar in personality, so that's probably why- Yeah. ... or just like loud and annoying people.
Andrea Watts: Just opinionated yappers.
Michael Zarick: And people are drawn to that. So like what, how have you like
Andrea Watts: found- Or, or they think we're annoying.
Um-
Michael Zarick: And then they end up talking to us?
Andrea Watts: I don't know. I wanna think that we are beloved.
Michael Zarick: So like how, how have you like found- Yeah. ... so many, um-
Andrea Watts: People. ...
Michael Zarick: connections here?
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Is it, do you think it's your personality or you think they're drawn to you or any of that type of thing?
Andrea Watts: I think like when you find the things you [00:17:00] care about and other people care about them too, it becomes this common thread and really easy to make connections.
Um, and that's something I've always been kind of, um, I guess loud about-
Michael Zarick: mm-hmm. ...
Andrea Watts: is, um, how do we make Indianapolis a place where people wanna stay? My entire life, I wanted to move to New York City.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: Um, I like had like in fourth grade I created this like little like life map of the things that, and I wanted to be like the next Katie Couric, delusional.
And, but that, that was like what I wanted to like live in New York City and be a newscaster and all these things or news anchor. And I love New York City and every time I go there, I'm like, "Oh, the city is so much far ahead of us in all of these other ways." But I feel like Indianapolis has, um, some really [00:18:00] cool, like sneaky, cool components, uh, to it that feel a little bit like we're a big city and we have this incredible art scene.
Um, and you know, it's not just one gallery. There's like galleries popping up in every corner of the city. And it's really, I think, beautiful to witness. Um, and then I think what Pattern Magaz- Magazine is doing with like cultivating the creative economy and nurturing that is also really cool to see.
Michael Zarick: Creative economy.
Andrea Watts: You hate that buzzword?
Michael Zarick: It's, it's a good thing because artists, I deserve to be paid. Yes. Artists deserve to be paid.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um- Donate to the pod if you're listening now. I'm a monthly subscriber.
Michael Zarick: I did not pay you to say
Andrea Watts: that. You didn't pay me to say that. I just care about your storytelling and you're my friend.
And I want you to keep doing it.
Michael Zarick: Um ...
You said art galleries, you said Pattern, you said ... Oh, I [00:19:00] have a question.
Yeah.
Why, what ... You are, in my, by my perception, a successful professional.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Thank you. Tell my mom.
Michael Zarick: Despite how you come off when we're just hanging out.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: why did you never move to New York City?
Andrea Watts: Oh, um, Lord knows I applied to a ton of jobs.
I remember I was on a bunch of, like, young professionals, groups and committees, and I resigned from all of them because I was like, it was during the pandemic and I was just constantly applying to New York City jobs, um, wanting to move there and just, like, wanted a big shift for my life and, like, none of the jobs worked out.
Um, and I was like, "Oh, I'm stuck here a little longer." Um, and now all my siblings have moved back to Indianapolis. My brother has a baby. My mom moved back here. Like, I'm stuck.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: Um, so I might as well make the best of it.
Michael Zarick: If you're ... [00:20:00] Please take this li- in a lighthearted tone.
Andrea Watts: No.
Michael Zarick: If your family were to disappear tomorrow- Yeah.
would you still desire to move?
Andrea Watts: maybe. I ha- I don't know. I have, like, certain days where I'm like, I want, like, like a cottage in Brown County.
Michael Zarick: But I do, you like going to Brown County?
Andrea Watts: I love going to Brown County, and I love being away from people sometimes, because God bless them, they exhaust me, though.
Michael Zarick: I think the, some of the charm of Indianapolis is in a lot of ways that we are the crossroads of America. Yeah. Unfortunately, we don't have good, um, traveling infrastructure that allows us to actually fulfill that.
Andrea Watts: Light
Michael Zarick: rail. Um, but
I think our proximity to, you know, my hometown Louisville- Yeah. ... our proximity to Chicago, our St. Louis to an extent, even though it's equidistant from- Yeah. ... uh-
Andrea Watts: There's really cool stuff in Michigan too.
Michael Zarick: And, like, even just, like, anything on the East Coast, like- Yeah. ... in a lot of ways, like, we are the crossroads of America.
Obviously, there's a level of distance [00:21:00] from the West Coast, but that's just gonna happen. Yeah. Like, that's, like, a different country in a way. I just think that there's a, a certain charm to living here in the middle- Yeah. ... in the Midwest.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: We're, this is, like, the most Midwest of cities. Yeah. We're, we're in the middle a- And
Andrea Watts: also, I think with all of the, not that climate change isn't impacting the Midwest as well, I think more drastically, it's impacting the coast.
Mm-hmm. I think, like, the more that time goes on, people are just gonna keep on coming here. Pack it. Pack it, pack it right in. You gotta be ready
Michael Zarick: for it. The, what are you, why are you laughing?
Andrea Watts: I don't
Michael Zarick: know. Well, like, if you gotta, we gotta, like, work on our, our current city so that
Andrea Watts: we can
Michael Zarick: accommodate those people.
Andrea Watts: I know, I know.
Michael Zarick: Um- And
Andrea Watts: it's not filled with data centers first.
Michael Zarick: Let's talk about drive less April.
Andrea Watts: Oh, yeah. Michael's the King. I forgot your crown.
Michael Zarick: Were you actually gonna give me a crown? Like a Burger King
Andrea Watts: town. I'm into a Burger King crown with Indygo buses and-
Michael Zarick: Oh, I was gonna wear my, um, safety [00:22:00] vest from Saturday.
That's cute. That was my goal, but I forgot. It's sitting on my floor.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So for those of you who do not follow actively on Instagram, uh, Andrea Watts is my rival for the month.
Andrea Watts: Of April?
Michael Zarick: I texted you on March-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: like 30th. I said ... I don't know how we got on the topic, but I was sort of like, "Hey, do you wanna do, like, a drive less challenge?"
Not drive less, drive less.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Uh, to see who can drive less over the course of the month and the outcome would be whoever drove less buys the other, or gets lunch from the other person. Yeah. Uh, so far, I think I'm winning. However, I do wanna offer an admission to you. So my wife is in, uh, France right now.
Andrea Watts: You've been driving her car?
Michael Zarick: I've driven her car once. Tw- it'll be twice by the time this comes out. I am [00:23:00] going to do the math and add those miles, as well as the miles driven to the airport, for your sake- ... To the amount driven for the month, because I feel that it's unfair otherwise.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I mean, I've been really lazy.
I haven't pumped up my bike tires, like I haven't, because I want a man to do it for me. I'm a shitty feminist
Michael Zarick: for myself. So you want the man to do for- You can't pump your own tires?
Andrea Watts: I just want somebody else to do it for me. I know. Gross. You can cut out that. I'm a shitty feminist
Michael Zarick: park.
I'm keeping that in.
Andrea Watts: Evil.
Michael Zarick: I think that's funny. can you talk about, like I guess, first of all, why did you accept this challenge?
Andrea Watts: Um, I don't know, because I thought it'd be fun and sometimes I'm delusional. And when I said yes, I was clearly in a good mood and thought I was gonna, you know, be bike- Smoke me. ... be biking and walking and taking the IndyGo bus.
I think I took the bus like three times and I think, I don't know, I have, like, family that lives in [00:24:00] Hamilton County and the only way you can get up there is drive. I wasn't about to, like, rack up some Uber bills to, like, win this challenge. I was, like, I just sort of accepted defeat, which is-
Michael Zarick: I don't think Uber is a good, like, solution though.
Andrea Watts: The same way that I approached 12:30. I, I made it mid-month with my sister and my mom, but I kept sending them pictures of my food like I was still in it.
Michael Zarick: That's, that's crazy.
Andrea Watts: I know, but I couldn't do it. The no bread, no sugar.
Michael Zarick: So I guess this brings up ... Okay, so there's another thing that happens, which is, like, the
Was it ... It's called, like, the no drive week or whatever. What happened
Andrea Watts: with it? Oh, week without driving.
Michael Zarick: Week without driving? Yeah. Which is-
Andrea Watts: I can do a whole week. A whole month is a lot.
Michael Zarick: But why don't we talk about why that is?
Andrea Watts: Also, I went without a car for a year.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: So-
Michael Zarick: Oh, you bought your car pretty recently.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: That's right.
Andrea Watts: My SUV named Dolly.
Michael Zarick: Uh, like, why are you finding it so difficult to not drive? [00:25:00]
Andrea Watts: Um, it feels like things are just pretty- We're
Michael Zarick: doing some internal analysis here.
Andrea Watts: Pretty spread out in Indianapolis, right? Um, also, sometimes getting from point A to point B, there's not protected bike lanes.
There's not an easy access trail. Um, I think that, especially because it's the entire county, that there's just so mu- there's so much infrastructure needs- mm-hmm. ... and improvement to do that, um, it's hard if you're going across town to, to do it. I mean, I know people that do, they, like, live that awesome lifestyle.
Also, every time, um, you know, I, I, I get on a bike and I have to ride on the street, I'm, like, kind of, like, in the back of my mind like, "Am I gonna die today?"
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: Um, and-
Michael Zarick: Why don't you think that when you're in a car? I
Andrea Watts: mean- I do, straight
Michael Zarick: [00:26:00] up.
Andrea Watts: I, I, like, I guess. I don't know. I feel like it's funny when you hear about people that are like, "I'm afraid of flying," and it's, like, the odds of you dying in a car- The safest
Michael Zarick: hormone ever.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. And I don't know, I feel like, um, I'm just, I don't know. I think I hear about people with their kids too. Um, and they wanna turn Indi- Indy into a bike city and they do like bike buses and, um, they do these things that make it part of like the cultural fabric of Indianapolis.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm..
Andrea Watts: Um, but, um, I don't know.
I think when you look at examples of other cities, especially European cities, when you build it, people will adapt. When I think about the city of Paris and what their female mayor has done, um, I think it's Hildago or something and Hidal- Hidalgo. She's made [00:27:00] drastic strides in their bike and pedestrian infrastructure. And if you look at the heat map of carbon emissions, um, it used to be like all red before and now it's all green and it's literally more healthy to breathe the air in Paris. I, I think Indianapolis has a really long way culturally that mindset shift to go on that.
Um, I think that the, like, the war on cars rhetoric and then people getting pissed about the phrase 15 minute cities and like all of these things, right? It's everything so politicized when you have the US, um, Secretary of Transportation saying, "We want auto centric only infrastructure going in and bike lanes and the, you know, the reconnecting communities grant that would, would help with, um, you know, uh, that, that's what funded the highway cap study, that all of that's off the table, right?"
but yeah, it's just, it's really [00:28:00] interesting to think about where we are as a nation with infrastructure and how that trickles down to the state level and then to the city level.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. you mentioned, like, Indianapolis being countywide.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So I'm drilling in on you because I, you're the person I-
Andrea Watts: Sure.
Michael Zarick: have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm fortunate to- Yeah. ... to work remote and then the places that I decide to go when I'm not working actively, um, are often on the bus line.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: How often are you going places in Indianapolis that are not near ... Like, I could, like- Yeah. ... you're, you live up here near me. Yeah. You could very easily take the 19 to your office and back.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Um, are you doing side adventures that's making it more difficult to do that or
Andrea Watts: are you- Yeah, like, I wanna go to Trader Joe's or I wanna go to REI- You
Michael Zarick: definitely can't get to Trader Joe's by bus easily.
Andrea Watts: No. And then, yeah, there's just, like, little things and then, like, [00:29:00] yeah. Um, yeah, there's ... I think that there's just places around town, but when you, like, can decide your own schedule and, like, where you wanna work from and what you wanna do, if you wanna, like, pick places that are along the red line or along, like, oh, we're going to pick places that are along the Monon Trail and all of the retail that's popping up along the Monon Trail is super exciting.
And then the way that they want to embrace the trail and put in bike racks and make it easy, um, for people to, to hang out there and linger, um, I think it's really great, but yeah, we still have a lot of work to do.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. I do think I, I carry a lot of privilege in terms of, like, my flexibility of schedule.
Yeah. I think it does ... It colors my opinion a lot because IndyGo is great, but it's not, uh ... The thing, like, I always think about is, like, if I wanted to go to the Near East Side-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: I have to go all the way to the transit [00:30:00] center and then hop on a connector to go to the east side. So by going all the way to the transit center, I'm already doing an hour and then to potentially, like, have to wait for a connector-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: uh, which would take, you know, a number of mu- a nu- minutes more. Yeah. And then, like, versus driving to the Kan-Kan or Amelia's or whatever- Yeah. ... it's like 15 minutes.
Andrea Watts: Or even the, like, difference of the frequency of a normal bus versus rapid transit bus.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. They're working on that.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Some of the bus, some of the normal buses- Yeah.
have higher frequency.
Andrea Watts: Well, you have a partnership with IndyGo too.
Michael Zarick: Not actively.
Andrea Watts: Well, I mean, you did the park to park walk- Yeah. ... and you got some bus passes for so many first time riders.
Michael Zarick: 25, 25.
Andrea Watts: Oh, we love to see it.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: That makes me giddy.
Michael Zarick: It would've been more, but we had to reschedule.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. For those listening who also don't follow on Instagram, I did a 25, 25, 12 mile, 12 and a half-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: 13.
Andrea Watts: Started at the- Mile walk. Indianapolis Arts Center ended at [00:31:00] Garfield Park, took the mone all the way down the cultural trail, and then how did you go from there?
Michael Zarick: We walked, uh, past your office- To Shelby. We walked past your office downtown, through the circle, uh, north, and then out the circle south, walked slightly east towards the, the, um
Oh, we followed the, we followed the cultural trail under the parking garage near Gainbridge.
Andrea Watts: Okay.
Michael Zarick: And then walked straight down east.
Andrea Watts: Okay.
Michael Zarick: We didn't even go to Fountain Square.
Andrea Watts: I wondered. Yeah. I was like
Michael Zarick: wondering
Andrea Watts: how they're
Michael Zarick: gonna- Well, we were gonna go down Shelby, but because of all the construction-
Andrea Watts: How did East Street feel to walk down?
Michael Zarick: That's a great question because I brought that up to everyone walking.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: It's a totally different experience because it's not-
Andrea Watts: Oh, absolutely.
Michael Zarick: It felt, it never felt unsafe. Yeah. Except, except when, uh, there was this, like, pickup truck, of course-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: that had, like, a semi-truck horn and he honked at us, like, clearly trying to get, like, a reaction.
Yeah.
It was so loud, I literally a- [00:32:00] I actively left the ground like a cat.
Oh my gosh.
I was like, "What?" Yeah. It hurt my ears. I was, I don't know. Yeah. That was the only time I felt ... And again, I think there's an important distinction to make between feeling unsafe and un- un- uh, uncomfortable.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I felt uncomfortable, like, deeply, but- I see.
Yeah. ... like, I would never felt unsafe walking down east.
Andrea Watts: Good.
Michael Zarick: It's just very clearly, like, not as, like, green and not as- Yeah. ... uh, catered to the human- You guys
Andrea Watts: should make it an annual thing. That was, it was fun. Or
Michael Zarick: thinking bi-annual.
Andrea Watts: I was a wuss. I only did it halfway. I got tired.
Michael Zarick: My right foot still hurts.
Andrea Watts: I was gonna say, I was sore for, like, oh, I don't know, probably till at least Tuesday. Today's what, Wednesday?
Michael Zarick: Well, you did a lot the day before too. This is true. Which I did too. Yeah. So I biked 17 miles- Yeah. ... and then walked 13 miles
Andrea Watts: over the weekend. It was like a 20,000 day of the day before 20,000 steppies, which is a lot.
Michael Zarick: I think I had, like, I don't, I don't think 30,000 is a lot. Yeah. It feels like it should have been more than 30,000.
Andrea Watts: You went to Ujama too, didn't you?
Michael Zarick: That, that was on Saturday.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. [00:33:00] Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I did. I went, uh, crazy this past weekend.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um-
Andrea Watts: It was fun though. I was tired.
Michael Zarick: It's fun to be tired.
Andrea Watts: I'm getting old.
Michael Zarick: It's fun to go outside, which is like the whole-
Andrea Watts: It is, yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: a message of the podcast.
Andrea Watts: We're solar powered, man. We need that vitamin D.
Michael Zarick: Uh, is there anything else you wanna talk about that you're thinking about before we move on to other stuff?
Andrea Watts: Oh, April is, uh, Arab American History Month.
Michael Zarick: Oh, I do actually wanna talk about this with you.
Andrea Watts: Yes. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So I'm half Lebanese Syrian is the term I use now. Yeah. You're half Lebanese.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: W- and that's sort of how we connected, but, like, for you personally-
Andrea Watts: Yes. ...
Michael Zarick: I guess what does it mean to be Arab American, but also, like, do you connect with other ... Do you feel like a certain level of connection with other, someone else when they're like, uh-
Andrea Watts: Absolutely.
Michael Zarick: Okay. Yeah. Talk to me about
that.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I, I don't know. I think, um, I love my mom's side of the family and I love, um, like, we had a [00:34:00] belly dancer at my graduation open house.
Michael Zarick: Wait, really?
Andrea Watts: Oh, yeah. I have a fun picture to show you. It was just, it's, like, the ... And I know that, like, when I'll bring my friends to, like, weddings and stuff, and there's a belly dancer, and there's the Dabke, and there's, like, all this fun dancing, people are just like, "Where am I?
This is so cool." And I, I love my mom's side of the family so much for that, and just, like, the food, the food is so good. It's my comfort food. Um, and I don't know, I think that my family's history in Indianapolis is, really beautiful when it comes to, like, um, cultural tourism and my uncle's own restaurants and a construction company, and my grandmother was an incredible entrepreneur, and I think about, like, the legacy they built in the city, and I'm, it makes me really proud.
[00:35:00] But then also just, just realizing that someone's also Middle Eastern, um, no matter what country, um, our dear waitress today was Palestinian, and I just, I don't know, I just, like, wanna hug everybody, um, especially because I think that, uh, the politics of the Middle East are so nuanced and complicated and heart-wrenching and yeah, I don't know.
I, um- And
Michael Zarick: because of the British.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I don't know. I think, like, I, I enjoy it immensely and I love connecting with people that are also Middle Eastern or Arab.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Great answer.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Cool. Okay. We're gonna move on to what I call the canned questions.
Andrea Watts: Ooh.
Michael Zarick: Third Space Indy is sponsored by City Rising.
Andrea Watts: Hell yeah, Mark Latta.
Michael Zarick: He doesn't like when I say his name. It's just City Rising now.
Andrea Watts: I, I accidentally, in the [00:36:00] Walk Bike Summit thing, I called it City Uprising. That's hilarious. It was like ... And he was like, "It's not uprising." I'm like, "Ooh, sorry. I went too far." But I was also like, "Why not? "
Michael Zarick: City Rising is a social impact studio.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Most recently, they implemented an eviction data dashboard that looks the highlight and reduce the impact of the over 30,000 evictions, mostly affecting Black and Latina women Indianapolis faces every year.
Yeah.
Learn more at cityrising.org.
Oh, yeah.
City Rising has sponsored a question, which is, what is a third space to you?
Hmm.
Andrea Watts: Let's see.
Michael Zarick: Why'd you grab your wallet?
Andrea Watts: I don't know.
Michael Zarick: Is that a tick?
Andrea Watts: Maybe, well, maybe it's because sometimes you feel like you have to spend money in a third space, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Like if it's a restaurant. I'm trying to think of like a, just a building community space, um-
Michael Zarick: Well, think about it [00:37:00] more, um, emotionally. What does it mean?
Andrea Watts: Emotionally.
Michael Zarick: And then maybe you'll read the, reach
Andrea Watts: the
other
Michael Zarick: end.
Andrea Watts: Um, when I think about, hmm, what does it mean for a third space?
Michael Zarick: Do you want me to run with the definition again?
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: So a third space, so you have three spaces, you have your home, which is your firs space.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Your work, which is your second space. Yeah. And then anywhere outside of those, there are two spaces- Yeah. ... that you can go exist with other people and build community. The primary function of which- Yeah. ... is to have conversation, which I know you love doing.
Andrea Watts: Yes. Oh, yeah.
Michael Zarick: What's doing also. So maybe where do you go to talk?
Andrea Watts: Um, our streets and our trails when I think about what we did at 16 and Monon this weekend-
Michael Zarick: Hashtag on message.
Andrea Watts: Oh. When I ... Well, also too, like, it was genuinely, like, even the cars that were slowing [00:38:00] down were rolling down the windows to interact with us.
At the 16th Street closing. It was literally, like, breaking the wall between cars and pedestrians. And I think about, like, when you drive somewhere and you go to point A, point B, you are by yourself, you're in isolation, but when you are out on your feet and, or on a bike or whatever, you see so many more people and connect with so many more people than you would have otherwise.
Yeah. Um, whether you know them or not, right? I think that, um, our streets and sidewalks are third spaces. I think our porches, I think our, um, you know, backyards with bonfires. Like, I think about that as a essential third spaces.
Michael Zarick: Uh, so shout out to Carlos of 16X Monon. Is that what he says? 16X
Andrea Watts: mono? Carlos.
Michael Zarick: Did he say 16X Monon?
Andrea Watts: Megan Jeff- Jefferson. 16 X Monon.
Michael Zarick: Okay. I didn't know if the X was pronounced or not. Um, so the 16th Street [00:39:00] crossing where the Monon Trail, which is the pedestrian trail here in Indianapolis, crosses 16th Street, which I said was previously- mm-hmm. ... one of the more dangerous is- Yeah. ... uh, pedestrian crossings, uh, in the city.
So this past weekend, uh, Andrea and myself helped volunteer with the effort to reduce the traffic speed, uh, which involved painting a beautiful mural.
Yeah.
Um, and putting in some ballards and whatever. Uh, one moment that really stuck out to me was this guy rolled down his, uh, his window and goes he goes, "What are y'all doing here?"
Like, you kind of said it like a little, like-
Andrea Watts: Annoyed? ...
Michael Zarick: to your face.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And I was like, "Oh, it's like a, a street mural to, like, slow down traffic to make it safer to across the street." He goes, "I like that. Thank you all for doing this. " Yes, yeah. And Carlos was like, he goes, "I thought that guy was about to fight you.
And I was like ... Yeah. I was like, "Oh, okay." But I, I think like that, like when I go on Twitter, which I shouldn't do because [00:40:00] it's full of Nazis-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: um, and I see this guy complaining about this, community effort. Like there are, there was a lot of people there volunteering.
Andrea Watts: Oh, there were over 100 volunteers, um, four incredible artists leading it. Shout out to Lilly Groot- Shout
Michael Zarick: out to Megan Jefferson, first guest of the pod.
Andrea Watts: Oh, absolutely. I love that. That's so cool.
Michael Zarick: Uh, like this is a community effort. Yeah. And like when I see people on Twitter being like, "I can't believe they're doing this.
I, that's a street for cars or whatever." It's like, that is not a real person. Like that person has never used the Monon trail.
Andrea Watts: No.
Michael Zarick: They have probably don't even drive down 16th Street.
Andrea Watts: I get into like protective mama bear mode and when, um, GPW posted about it, there was somebody, you know, being like, "You're out here painting cutie pie murals and you should be resurfacing my street."
And I'm like, these are apples and oranges. Y- no comparison. This is literally a community-led e- effort.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. [00:41:00]
Andrea Watts: Thank you to DPW for allowing it to happen, but it's not DPW literally doing the labor. It's community members. It was me.
Michael Zarick: It was like- I don't even live there.
Andrea Watts: I was like lifting heavy shit. I was like, "My back hurts, right?"
And I, I'm sitting here just like when it's community led and owned, it feels really different. And like, Courtney Hawk reminded me, like, sometimes we spend too much time waiting for, like, the government to save us when really, like, we're the ones that are gonna save ourselves.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. And- Shout out to Anderson York
Andrea Watts: Yes. I love you, Anderson.
Michael Zarick: He likes what I say his name. It's funny. follow up question to the ... Sorry. No, you're fine. I did, I did, um, really enjoy 61.
Andrea Watts: What time do you have to be at draft?
Michael Zarick: 6:30. Okay. Yeah, I got this time. Uh, dude, look at those giant pizzas.
Andrea Watts: Woo, Goodfellas.
Michael Zarick: Uh, so yeah, shout out to Carlos at 69, that was great.
And I, it, even though I don't live there, I use that trail regularly, so I felt [00:42:00] compelled to go assist.
Yeah. Oh.
followup question to the previous question.
Yeah.
What is a third space or a place that has existed for you previously that no longer does?
Andrea Watts: That's a hard one.
Michael Zarick: It's self-reflective.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, what's your answer?
Michael Zarick: I don't wanna color your answer.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, I don't know.
Michael Zarick: You've never had a community space that used to hang out?
So, yeah, yesterday/last week, um-
Andrea Watts: There was one in Fletcher Place. It was like a Fletcher Place Community Center. I forget what's there now. I feel like it's a marketing agency or something. I don't know. But whew, did you see that?
Michael Zarick: A bug or something?
Andrea Watts: Just flight my nose.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea Watts: yeah, I feel like there was Fletcher Place Community Center and, um, doesn't exist anymore, but [00:43:00] yeah, I feel that's, that's all I've got.
It's not a very good answer. Sorry.
Michael Zarick: What about, like ... I'm not trying to push any sort of answer on you.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, you are.
Michael Zarick: Um, and also it's technically sort of like your place of work, but when you worked for the city- Yeah. ... or the municipal government, was there a level of, like, camaraderie you had with other employees?
Andrea Watts: Um-
Michael Zarick: If not, I can just skip that one.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um, and I feel like I'm still connected to a lot of awesome people that work for the city. Um, I'm not gonna let a few rotten apples ruin my experience of, uh, being a government worker. I will say, um, I'd go back in an instant. Um, it's really beautiful, challenging work, but, um, feels good.
it's fun to be on the other side, kind of pushing for better. and I feel like I [00:44:00] learned a lot while I was there, but then you can only, do so much before, you know, that culture of no is very pervasive. and budgets are tight and all of the other restrictions that, um, you know, city governments all across Indiana, not just the city of Indianapolis have with, um, how I think it was SP, um, two or whatever, so cities and towns across Indiana are having major budget deficits, right?
Um, and I think that makes it really frustrating to be, um, a government employee. Sometimes you'll hear about people's workloads and it's really like there should, they should have like a project coordinator or some people under them, but they're literally managing it all. so yeah, I, I don't know. I still, I know so many, um, good, awesome folks at DPW and at parks [00:45:00] and, um, yeah, just all across the board.
So I, I think it's a challenging job.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Shout out to DPW. Even though they get a bad rap, I think they do good work and the workers who work for them- Yeah. ... are out here.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Fucking slaying.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Picking up the trash, keeping the city ... Like the, the things that like you, I don't know, I think maybe can be taken for granted like the normal things that you expect from like the snow removal, the other things- Yeah.
and, um-
Michael Zarick: I mean, we live in a big city, like geographically large city.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And I think that, uh, critic- critics of the local government don't always keep that in mind.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, and it's not that the workers are not doing their very best- Yeah. ... it's that the system above them is not- Oh yeah. ... empowering them to, uh-
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
And the system-
Michael Zarick: Or not even necessarily
Andrea Watts: [00:46:00] example- ... The system too. Like the, the way that like, um-
Michael Zarick: The system above the system.
Andrea Watts: The no commuter tax and all the people that drive on our roads and want to bitch about our potholes and then go back to Hamilton County and drive on their smooth, perfectly salted roads, right?
But like- Can I
Michael Zarick: tell you an experience that I had recently?
Andrea Watts: So much mo money than us when it got to that. It's
Michael Zarick: only an experience I had recently. It actually genuinely made me angry.
Andrea Watts: Let's hear it.
Michael Zarick: Last week-
Andrea Watts: Rade bait. ...
Michael Zarick: I rode I rode my bike, uh, from my house.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And I, I woke up in the morning ... Uh, I woke up and I said, "I don't wanna ride south anymore, so I'm gonna ride north." So I rode my bike from my house up, up the Monon North to Hamilton County to-
Andrea Watts: Okay. ...
Michael Zarick: uh, Carmel proper.
Andrea Watts: Damn.
Michael Zarick: About 45 minutes. It's like eight miles, both ways. Boop, boop. Um-
Andrea Watts: How awesome is it?
Michael Zarick: Or eight miles up, eight miles backside.
Andrea Watts: How dreamy is Midtown Plaza?
Michael Zarick: That's not the part that made me angry. Okay. As [00:47:00] soon as you cross into Hamilton County-
Andrea Watts: Okay. So 96th Street.
Michael Zarick: I believe that's where it was.
Andrea Watts: That's a border.
Michael Zarick: As soon as I crossed the county line on the Monon, there was a public restroom.
Andrea Watts: Yep.
Michael Zarick: It made me so mad.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. And a, and a working water fountain?
Michael Zarick: It was beautiful. Yeah. And it made me so mad.
Andrea Watts: Oh yeah, no.
Michael Zarick: It's like I, it's not, it was, there was no, um, desire to live in Hamilton County. It was more like I
Andrea Watts: want this. This is, this is what I, and it, and it should be, it should be something Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Um, speaking about downtown Carmel, my good friend Jeffrey Tompkins, who I will bring up, uh, a little later on Jeffrey.
Uh, I, the first time I visited Carmel, which was, uh, sometime in the summer last year, I texted him. I said, "What do you think of Carmel?" And he just replies very simply, "It's Disneyland." And I think that is-
Oh. ...
uh, the truest statement [00:48:00] of all time. Yeah. Uh, I, one thing that really s- str- stuck out to me about, e- especially so being on my bike this time, because last time I went, I drove, um, is that there is this beautiful infrastructure there that is exactly the type of space I want to exist in.
Yeah. But no one uses it. And it's,
Andrea Watts: Really? You thought, like, it just wasn't a busy day or something?
Michael Zarick: I mean, it was Tuesday at, like, 10:00 AM.
Andrea Watts: Okay.
Michael Zarick: So I can give him that, but, like, those people don't work. People who live in Hamilton County don't have real jobs.
Andrea Watts: I don't know.
Michael Zarick: You're-
Andrea Watts: I don't know if I, I wanna know if I'd make that generalization.
Michael Zarick: but I, it stuck out to me recently. I really think I would desire to do the same thing I did that day, but, like, on a Friday.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Just to see-
Andrea Watts: See the difference?
Michael Zarick: Uh, but the, current leader of the Strong Towns [00:49:00] chapter up there, his name's Jordan.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: I talked to him about this, uh, and he said he agreed with me, actually, uh, and something he said that I found really compelling is that he goes, "I wish Carmel had a college because people who are college age would utilize this area incre- incredibly well."
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Because when you're in Midtown Carmel ... Is that what it's called? Midtown-
Andrea Watts: Midtown Plaza.
Michael Zarick: Midtown Plaza. Um, like, uh, it looks ... It, it reminds me of Bloomington, actually. Yeah. Like Bloomington, Indiana, like this beautiful-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. A lot of urbanists say that, like, the last time you live in, like, a truly walkable area in a 15-minute city is a college town.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: Um, and I, I do think that's interesting concept for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: But anyways, I think ... I don't want Indianapolis to be exactly like that, but I do think there are, um, echoes of what we could be- Oh,
Andrea Watts: absolutely. ... with
Michael Zarick: that in there.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, we've got a lot of potential.
Michael Zarick: I think when [00:50:00] people ... When I go to the Broad Ripple development meeting and they're like, "We don't want roundabouts," I'm like, "You shut up."
'Cause like, that's like the least of your worries right now.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: You should be worried about how the, the storefronts are all empty
Andrea Watts: like- I didn't go to that meeting, but I did see that AI slop house.
Michael Zarick: You sure did. Um, okay. Every episode, I ask a question from the previous guest.
Andrea Watts: Oh.
Michael Zarick: The previous guest, his name is Ethan Rossick.
Okay. He is the meteorologist at Fox 59, not the, a meteorologist at Fox 59, also a very good friend of mine.
Cool.
Michael Zarick: Um, Ethan asks, "What is a community space around Indianapolis you have been wanting to go to or try, but you haven't yet and why?" That ended up rhyming.
Andrea Watts: Let's see. A community space, I like ...
Michael Zarick: Or a third space.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Whatever. Um, it's been a few years, but I'm gonna say at Belmont [00:51:00] Beach also, I don't know if you know Where the beer castle is.
Michael Zarick: Yeah.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. That's going away, I heard.
Michael Zarick: Yep. I also heard that.
Andrea Watts: So maybe I should go visit that one
Michael Zarick: before it goes.
You can do a Friday on the Beer Castle Ride.
Andrea Watts: I can't. I'm busy.
Michael Zarick: Oh, that's right. I'll be there too.
Andrea Watts: With Will Hazen.
Michael Zarick: Uh- Yeah. It's gonna be too late by the time this episode comes out.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Oh, actually, real quick, what do you find compelling about the Beer Castle?
Andrea Watts: This, I don't know, the, um, spray paint that looks like a castle and then you can go around it and then kind of traverse this little, like, rocky dam area-
But feels like you're living on the edge.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. And then I think they call it the Beer Castle because people drink beer there or ... Okay. Um, for those listening, the Beer Castle is like the 16th ... Am I not allowed to share?
Andrea Watts: No, I was like, I think it,
Michael Zarick: it's- It's the 16th Street Bridge, right?
Andrea Watts: Before ... I ... It's before the 16th Street Bridge, but it's [00:52:00] across from Belmont Beach.
It's where the dam- the Emericksville dam is.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, because Belmont Beach is on the south side of Bel- uh, the 16th Street Bridge, uh, but it's on the, on the east side of the river.
Andrea Watts: I'm like, let me pull this up.
Michael Zarick: Beer castle.
Andrea Watts: Google Maps.
Michael Zarick: Keith Hutchinson brought this up. Actually, Beercastle.
Andrea Watts: Beer Castle Proper Permanently closed.
Michael Zarick: Wait, yeah. You can look it up on Google Maps.
Andrea Watts: So, there it is. There, and then Rocky area, Dam.
Michael Zarick: Belmont Beach.
Andrea Watts: Belmont Beach.
Michael Zarick: Oh, that's cool.
Andrea Watts: Pretty awesome. Uh- Then 16th Street Bridge is riiight dare'
Michael Zarick: Okay, so before we wrap up-
Andrea Watts: Yes. ...
Michael Zarick: I actually do wanna talk about one more thing.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: It's gonna come out after this occurs. Okay. but you, this is gonna be a regular series, Friday field trips.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: can you tell people what Friday Field Trips is?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. It's where you [00:53:00] take the end of your Friday and you go hang out with people and talk about nerdy things like, um, transportation history or, um, infrastructure and classical pieces of art or, um, what else?
Major Taylor. Um, I'm trying to think of other field trips we've got cooking. Oh, Tucker Born, do you know Tucker?
Michael Zarick: Yep. He's the, he's the, um-
Andrea Watts: Signal guy? Signal guy. He's the best.
Michael Zarick: I wanna meet him. I haven't met him.
Andrea Watts: He's wonderful. And, um, he, uh, we wanna do a, uh, field trip at the DPW sign shop.
Michael Zarick: Can I get a sign?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I don't know if you can get a sign, but maybe we could, like, make signs out, like, Marissa and-
Michael Zarick: Third Space indy
sign.
Andrea Watts: That'd be cute. You need one. I don't know how you get on their. good grace's list. They do follow you on.
Michael Zarick: They do follow me on Instagram.
Andrea Watts: DM.
Michael Zarick: Yeah, if you listen to this and you work for DPW or you have access to a street sign company and you wanna donate a Third Space Indy sign-
Andrea Watts: I'll get you [00:54:00] one made.
Michael Zarick: I would love that. That's so funny. I'll hang it behind me.
Andrea Watts: Can't be that hard.
Michael Zarick: Uh ...
Andrea Watts: But doesn't that sound fun?
Michael Zarick: No, it sounds incredible.
Andrea Watts: It sounds so cute and fun. Yeah. So we wanna keep doing the Friday field trips. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Friday field trips.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: First Fridays?
Andrea Watts: I don't know if it's gonna be first Fridays- '
Michael Zarick: Cause the first ones on First Fridays.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um, I think it's just whenever it works out for the people that are, we're gonna be having hosts, so.
Michael Zarick: Got it.
Andrea Watts: Like, um, my friend Beth with the Indiana Historical Society, this worked out for her. We also have some cool partners,
Michael Zarick: like- Beth Brandon my goat is that
Andrea Watts: who is? Yes. The Metropolitan Planning Organization, Rethink 65, 70 Young Professionals, um, Kayla IndyGo, um, I'm probably missing Strongtowns.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm.
Andrea Watts: So yeah, I think it's a lot of people that care deeply- Our
Michael Zarick: bald king.
Andrea Watts: Our bald kid. Cade. Cade's the best. Yeah. He was took so many- I've never met him. Great pictures. What? He was at 16th and Monon.
Michael Zarick: He left before I [00:55:00] got
Andrea Watts: there. Okay. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Yeah. Yeah. I told him ... Well, I've actually ... There's a I'm meeting Saturday.
I'm gonna meet him at I think.
Andrea Watts: Are you gonna go?
Michael Zarick: I plan to.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: There's a lot going on this weekend.
Andrea Watts: There's too much. If I have the energy, I'll go, but I'm feeling a little tired.
Michael Zarick: I'm locked in, baby. I'm- Uh, one last thing. Yes. I know I said just one last thing, but another last thing. The Walk and Bike Summit.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Which will also be over by the time this comes out.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: can you explain what this is to me in, in Michael terms? Yeah. And then, like, what it means for you to be, like, one of the prime organizers of this thing.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um, it's something Health by Design organized back in 2018, and we've wanted to do it since.
Michael Zarick: Oh, it hasn't happened since then?
Andrea Watts: It hasn't happened in ... How many years has it been since I'm not a math girl? Seven?
Michael Zarick: Eight?
Andrea Watts: Eight years. So it's really exciting to have it, back again. it does take a lot of, uh, staff energy to promote and to get sponsors and all sorts of things. So I don't think it's [00:56:00] going to be an every year thing, but, um, we're bringing together professionals from across the state.
They could be an advocacy, they could be a nonprofit, they could be a traffic engineer, they could be, um, you know, like a retired person that cares deeply and they're an activist, who has the, um, you know, time to do this kind of thing. a lot of planners. Um, who else am I missing? I'm really excited today I got connected with, um-
Michael Zarick: Ben Solie will be there.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, Ben Solee. Um, a musician.
Michael Zarick: I'm apparently the only one who knows that.
Andrea Watts: Coming up from Kentucky, um, and, uh, we've got another guy who is a transportation expert, um, owns his own firm. He's done a little bit of work in Indianapolis, but, um, he has a podcast called Arrested Mobility, which in the transportation circles is a, is a big one.
Um, so yeah, I think
Michael Zarick: that- The podcast or the term Arrested Mobility?
Andrea Watts: The podcast.
yeah, it's interesting because it's [00:57:00] like transportation kind of connects to everything. Um- Every, everything connects to everything.
Michael Zarick: You can draw-
Andrea Watts: I know. I know. We're getting philosophical.
Michael Zarick: No, I, I'm gonna leave it at this, which is the amount of times I've looked at my wife and said-
Andrea Watts: Let's just walk
Michael Zarick: there. ... this thing is ... What?
Andrea Watts: Let's just walk there.
Michael Zarick: No. This thing is this way because of capitalism. Is like infinite.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: The most, the, the biggest one is like lawns, front lawns.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: And they, they actually make me mad now. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's what I'll leave it at. but yeah, let's wrap it up. Anything else you wanna talk about?
Andrea Watts: Not really.
Michael Zarick: One last question. What question would you like to ask the next Third Space Indy guest?
It does not have to be related to third spaces Indianapolis- Does it
have
Andrea Watts: to be serious? Or can it be goofy?
Michael Zarick: It can be absolutely wacko.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Um, one that- It can
Michael Zarick: be deeply inappropriate, which
Andrea Watts: is- No, I'm gonna keep it clean. Um, [00:58:00] so let's see. This is a fun one. So like, you're a famous musician, hypothetically.
What is in your rider? Like, you know how like-
Michael Zarick: Oh, rider.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, like-
Michael Zarick: R-I-D-E-R.
Andrea Watts: Yes. Like, um-
Michael Zarick: Like you want, I want, uh-
Andrea Watts: Like you want like San Pellegrino and Prosecco and only green Eminems. Like what are your like snacks?
Michael Zarick: What's your most annoying like writer that you're ... I want like a fresh pair of Crocs.
Andrea Watts: So weird.
If you become like big podcast influencer and, uh, you go to a green room and they, they say, "What would you like in the green room?" You're gonna ask for Crocs?
Michael Zarick: No.
Andrea Watts: Yeah, that's silly. Oh, if I actually were- You mean like snackies and drinks and-
Michael Zarick: I'm like not needy.
Andrea Watts: Okay. But if you wanted
Michael Zarick: to- You looked at me like I was lying.
Andrea Watts: If you wanted to be a diva for a day.
Michael Zarick: I need pizza from Pizzeria Ruby and Rogers, Arkansas flown in fresh.
Andrea Watts: Wow, that's [00:59:00] insane.
Michael Zarick: Well, you said diva.
Andrea Watts: What's the best pizza in Indy?
Michael Zarick: Okay. I've been watching the Dave Portnoy videos that he did from the Final Four.
Andrea Watts: Mm-hmm.
Michael Zarick: And I haven't been there, but the video that looked the best-
Andrea Watts: Sam's. ...
Michael Zarick: is unfortunately in Noblesville, which is Brooklyn Char.
Andrea Watts: Okay.
Michael Zarick: So if I were to ask Indianapolis specifically, like Marion County-
Andrea Watts: Yeah. ...
Michael Zarick: so far, it is Sam's square fox.
Andrea Watts: Okay.
Michael Zarick: However, that Brooklyn Char video, I- I do not wanna go to Noblesville, but I will for this.
Andrea Watts: Is that what you want your free meal to be for winning the driving challenge?
Michael Zarick: I'm not going to ... That's so ... We are not going to drive for doing the drive less challenge. That sounds stupid. All right.
Andrea Watts: So-
Michael Zarick: That's it.
Andrea Watts: That's a wrap.
Michael Zarick: Andrea Watts, if you want to be found, where can the people find you?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I'm on Insta. I'm on-
Michael Zarick: What's [01:00:00] your
handle?
Andrea Watts: Andrea M. Watts.
Michael Zarick: All
Andrea Watts: one word. And yes. And yeah.
Michael Zarick: What's your middle name?
Andrea Watts: Melia.
Michael Zarick: Melia? Not Amelia.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: M-I-L-L-I-A.
Andrea Watts: M-E-L-I-A. It's my great-grandmother's name. Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Amelia.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Amelia.
Michael Zarick: Uh, anywhere else you wanna be found?
Andrea Watts: Not really.
Michael Zarick: Health by design?
Andrea Watts: Yeah. Follow Health By Design and, um-
Michael Zarick: Is it Health By Design of all the platforms? Mm-hmm. Me to work on your plugging.
Andrea Watts: Yeah. I'm not very prepared. Remember when I asked you what I could do to prepare?
Michael Zarick: You don't just know your handles on your social-
Andrea Watts: I should be better.
Are you gonna cut this or is it just me? Health by Design IN, because I think Health By Design was taken.
Michael Zarick: Mm-hmm. I'm sure there's more than one Health by Design.
Andrea Watts: Yes.
Michael Zarick: Health by Design IN on Instagram and other platforms. Hey.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Thanks for watching or listening to this episode of Third Space Indy. You can find me at Thirdspace Indy on Instagram or by going to thirdspaceindy.com [01:01:00] where I put the show notes and the blog.
Thank you to City Rising for sponsoring the podcast and
thank you to Proformus.
Andrea Watts: Got Jeffrey.
Michael Zarick: Proformus is an urban planning and design firm that helps neighbors and communities shape the place they already love based in Indianapolis.
Andrea Watts: Oh.
Michael Zarick: They're here to help you make your place happen one block at a time.
Andrea Watts: Yeah.
Michael Zarick: Shout out to Jeffrey Tompkins. Yeah.
Uh, who will be at the Walk and Bike Summit.
Andrea Watts: Yes. He's a speaker.
Michael Zarick: Yes, he is. Uh, thank you to the sponsors and thank you to the local artist, Jennason, as always for allowing me to use your song, Scared Rabbit as the intro music. Thank you so much for watching again. See you in the next one. Goodbye.
We can't
Andrea Watts: hug.
Michael Zarick: We can hug.
[01:02:00]
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